Couples Seeking Women: Please Read

[TaylorMade]

Control Tower
HBBs
By: Mistress Mattisse

The Stranger- Seattle WA.

EXCERPT:

If you want a conversational topic guaranteed to inflame the passion of a single bisexual woman, ask her what she thinks about being hit on by male/female couples seeking a third. And then step back, because the passion you'll arouse will probably not be the sexy kind.

You see, no other group of people is as frequently sought after by polyamorous couples as single bisexual women--"the elusive Hot Bi Babe" they're often called, or "HBB." The term "HBB" is generally employed with a generous dollop of sarcasm. But the "elusive" part refers to the fact that couples seeking another woman to join them, whether it's just for a night or for life, often find it difficult or impossible to succeed. That's because no other group of people is as frequently stigmatized, ridiculed, and fled from by the very women they're seeking.

The Rest of the Article

A Forum Topic (on another bi-friendly Site) to go with it.

Knock yourselves out.

*Taylor*

[vittoria]

Quite possibly because the ones searching for "HBB"s are "UBC"s (LOL!) and either the chick looks good and the guy looks like "To the pain" (Princess Bride reference); or the guy looks hot but the chick looks lame. Bi couples also face the stigma of being lecherous, over 40s, looking for that young 'tenderoni' (no offense to my fellow bi couples, but its true... you should see the replies 31Cho and I get from people because we are looking for a third.. male OR female!). Its pretty interesting. All anyone can do is ask, and all anyone can say is "No"! Some folks ( bi couples) become assholes about it (polite refusal), though, and spoil things for the rest of us decent humans. Then there's the thought process of the female being asked.. " I'm not here to be entertainment for the guy" ... all of which is understandable to the rational person.

[TaylorMade]

Thanks Vitt for actually responding.

I got ALOT of looks, but no one wanted to man or woman up and say something till you.

I think I hit a nerve here.

To Couples planning on PMing or IMing me or Others through this site or Yahoo. . .consider this a polite NO. If you persist, I WILL get rude.

*Taylor*

[vittoria]

This one person named "Tacit" at that OkCupid site commented:


This question has been beautifully answered by Mistress Matisse in the Control Tower column over at the Seattle Stranger.

Basically, what it comes down to in a nutshell is that it is easy-peasy to meet polyamorous bisexual women. Seriously. They're everywhere. It is NOT, however, easy to meet a polyamorous bisexual woman who is willing to throw away her life in order to move in with a married couple just so that she can follow all of their rules.

If you seriously want a poly relationship with a bisexual woman, here are some things you might want to keep in mind:

- Hot bi babes who have good communication skills, good relationship skills, and want polyamorous relationships are quite likely to be in at least one, if not more, relationships already. If you're one of the typical 12,743,912 couples who insists that "their" third must be dedicated to you and to you alone, then expect to have trouble. If a woman is desired, wants polyamory, and likes the idea of multiple relationships, why on earth would she move in with people who tell her that she's not allowed to have any other relationships?

- Don't promise "equality." Don't say "we're looking for a woman to be an equal partner." You might sincerely believe it's true, but it's not. Don't believe me? Then consider this: Why do such couples want that woman to move into their house, instead of the three of them getting a house together? Why do such couples not put that third woman on the deed to their property? And while you're thinking about that, consider this: Imagine that your wife came up to you and said "You know, I'm having some insecurity issues. Can you stop having sex with our third for a while?" Then imagine that third person came to you and said "I'm having some insecurity issues. Can you stop having sex with your wife for a while?" Big difference, eh? Yeah. It ain't equality if the couple is more equal than anyone else.

- Never say "We're looking for a third to complete us." Ew. Just ew. (Seriously. I hear this reaction from bisexual poly women all the time.)

- Don't insist that "your" third have sex with both of you at once or be in love with both of you "equally," whatever that means. All relationships form at their own pace and to their own depth. If you can't handle that, then it might be useful to step back and examine your motives.

- Don't go shopping with a profile that's a laundry lis of what you want. How on earth will that make someone want to be with you? Think about what that bisexual poly woman is likely to say. "Okay, yep, yep, that's me, yep. But I know nothing about these people. I know they're looking for me, but that's all I know." Why would she contact you?

- You really want to sabotauge yourself? Insist that she be a Young Hottie when you're both Old Notties.

- Don't sit down with your spose and plan this relationship all out, then try to find someone to stick into that slot. Bisexual poly women are human beings; human beings like to have some say in how their relationship grows, and what form it takes. If you've already figured out that she's gonna move into your house, sleep in your bed with both of you, watch your kids while you're away, and so on, and so on, then how, exactly, does she have a voice in this relationship? She's a person, not a fantasy fulfillment object. If you were single, would you respond to someone who had already figured out all the little details of how your life would be before you even met?

- Including the physical characteristics you're looking for in a profile. Again, ew. Basically, what this communicates is "We are interested in you if you are the 'right' sex, sexual orientation, and shape for us; we are not interested in you as a person."

- "We want a full triad" often communicates "we are both possessive and insecure." Does that sentence raise your blood pressure? If so, maybe it might be helpful to take a step back and ask yourself why. If not--if you really are one of those incredibly rare couples who is NOT insecure--then drop the requirement that she have sex with both of you. Talk to people without that requirement and see where it goes.

Like I said, I've found that it's actually very easy to find polyamorous bisexual women. It's just not easy to do if you are, or look even remotely like, all the millions of couples who swears that you're all about equality and all about love and sex while simultaneously expecting "your" third to be the one who follows the rules you set, and have sex with both of you from the get-go.

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

LOL Mistress Mattise is well known in the Bi Community in these here parts. She's sumpthin else. :}
Cat
45 minutes away from Seattle and knows the Stranger well..:}

[TaylorMade]

LOL Mistress Mattise is well known in the Bi Community in these here parts. She's sumpthin else. :}
Cat
45 minutes away from Seattle and knows the Stranger well..:}

Well, either way, she's right. And I'm sure plenty of HBD's (Are there such a thing?) probably could start a thread about couples as well.

Not alot of couples respond whenever I post these threads... ROFL. I know Falcon has responded when I put up this issue before...

*Taylor*

[Bicpl4u2pa]

Title should really be:

COUPLES SEEKING WOMEN WHO BEHAVE LIKE THOSE IN ARTICLE:RUN!



Among swingers (or those "in the lifestyle" as its currently called) have referred to single women looking to hook up with couples for some bi-sex for decades as Unicorns after the mythical beast. Of course, in reality there are plenty out there..they are just mainly low key for their own safety!
Its funny how the term "Hot Bi Babe" seems so typical of "newbies" unnecessarily inventing terms and thus showing their inexperience


She seems to conclude by the end that a polyamorous relationship is the goal of EACH AND EVERY Unicorn...and can ONLY be achieved through friendship first.....that just ISNT so! All that friendship being necessary first malarky isnt what MANY people want. It seems to be just playing into typical relationship standards set by the str8 population so sexually active unicorns dont feel guilt for breaking the societal "rule" that sex needs an emotional tie.
The people quoted also seem to imply some sacrifice by the "extra" woman is always necessary and paint themselves as some sort of angry bitter martyrs. As quoted they come off with an "attitude" that makes them seem VERY high maintenance and VERY unattractive and actually a bit mentally disturbed. Any of those women seem as if you'd come home and find your pet rabbit boiling on the stove!
I've NEVER heard bi men nor any of the unicorns we've met whine and complain like that. We have developed long lasting friendships with many single men and women. None of these relationships has developed into a true polyamorous one (as properly defined by sociologists) but that likelyhood is statisticly infintessimal anyway.
This article leads you to believe that some people just aren't mentally prepared for any sexual, multi partner or polyamorous relationship and that is REALLY the reason why they are single and not in a committed relationship to begin with. Its much EASIER to blame couples than themselves.

[TaylorMade]

I've heard both terms used among experienced people. . . both mean the same thing, basically. So that's kind of a lame aspersion to cast. And Mountaincat (no newbie to the lifestyle, she) stated she was familiar with the author of the articles work. I think it prolly takes a lot of experience and good reputation to get some sort of recognition in the LBGT community of any progressive city in the US, so ... ragging on Mistress Mattisse's experience, and you are. . .?


My own experience and the experience of others directly contradict what you're saying. Friendship is important and not some "str8 standard". It's a human standard. Friendship prevents people from being treated like meat once the clothes are off. My current female friend is married, and because all 3 of us have gone out and spent time together, the idea of a 3some with her husband is not one I'd turn away. He's not a total hottie, he's close to my age and not a pushy person. She doesn't need to know that yet, though.

Before that, I've played twice with couples. The first time... there was no friendship and the guy tried to slip it in me even after the rules were set. The second time. . .the woman and I were friends and her boyfriend listened and paid attention.

Maybe there is a reason the why the relationships you've had haven't developed into true poly relationships...the fact that you can't even concede that maybe some couples ARE the problem is a perfect illustration of the author's point.

I smell some projection and denial here.

*Taylor*

[shybipinay]

Taylor,

We thank you so much for all this info. What a gold mine of material!!! We appreciate yor efforts and explanations.

[NJ Mac]

Interesting topic. I'm a bi man interested primarily in a bi M/F couple, so it may be kind of apples and oranges to comment on this topic. There are a LOT of bi guys looking for a M/F couple. We're not the elusive "unicorns," more like surplus farm horses standing around eating all the hay and dropping poop everywhere.

One thing that grabbed my attention was the idea of a couple wanting their desired third party to MOVE IN with them. Not merely to be exclusive with them, but to move in. As someone else pointed out, it's beyond presumptuous to think that a "hawt bi poly babe" would want to be exclusive with anyone. To me, the whole point of being poly is to avoid the sorts of entangling alliances that dash so many marriages, for example, on the rocks of "infidelity" to use a word I dislike. The idea of moving in with a couple (not that anyone's asked me...) gives me douche chills of a kind I normally associate with unexpected mail from the IRS. Please people. You want a pet, get a dog. It takes enough courage to be bi and poly in this straitjacketed world. Let's not make it even harder on our own kind than it already is.

[vittoria]

I've heard both terms used among experienced people. . . both mean the same thing, basically. So that's kind of a lame aspersion to cast. And Mountaincat (no newbie to the lifestyle, she) stated she was familiar with the author of the articles work. I think it prolly takes a lot of experience and good reputation to get some sort of recognition in the LBGT community of any progressive city in the US, so ... ragging on Mistress Mattisse's experience, and you are. . .?


My own experience and the experience of others directly contradict what you're saying. Friendship is important and not some "str8 standard". It's a human standard. Friendship prevents people from being treated like meat once the clothes are off. My current female friend is married, and because all 3 of us have gone out and spent time together, the idea of a 3some with her husband is not one I'd turn away. He's not a total hottie, he's close to my age and not a pushy person. She doesn't need to know that yet, though.

Before that, I've played twice with couples. The first time... there was no friendship and the guy tried to slip it in me even after the rules were set. The second time. . .the woman and I were friends and her boyfriend listened and paid attention.

Maybe there is a reason the why the relationships you've had haven't developed into true poly relationships...the fact that you can't even concede that maybe some couples ARE the problem is a perfect illustration of the author's point.

I smell some projection and denial here.

*Taylor*

Thank you for saying what I was thinking as well.. considering that I, for one, am part of a couple, however we also believe that sometimes some couples can be ASSHOLES ( as seen here)..and tend to be of the 'I'm looking down upon you-- you arent really bi because you have a mind of your own and you wont bend to our will' types. So annoying. Something about the expecting folks to be "young hotties when you're old notties" seem to make a few people wince ( Tacit's words, NOT mine) so therefore that may gleen some hostility.

[Bicpl4u2pa]

HMMM...its interesting how different the swinging communities and bisexual communities differ. As regarding the authors credentials verses ours. Actually we are both degreed and have studied with the late Lynn Atwater (The Extramarital Connection: Sex, Intimacy, and Identity) who was a pioneer in the sociology of sexuality. We owe our learned approach to her and a few others.
Its clear that some on this site lack the ability to debate rationally. What we have seen so far in many discussions on these forums are quite a bit of elitism and defensiveness. If enough people convince themselves to believe in ONE narrow view espoused by one "expert" the next thing you know they discriminate against others with contrary viewpoints. We are thinking that the LBGT community is too self centered and elitist. Its interesting that this seems to parallel we've seen in the gay community who distain bisexuals with a similar discrimination also used by the str8 community.
We start to wonder if people even understand definitions properly in refering to polyamory. As a word becomes more common it is more likely to be misused from its original definition. For example there are many "house flipping" tv shows that use terms like restoration, renovation and rehabilitation to mean the same thing when by defintion they are each markedly different. Things get confusing and misunderstandings ensue. Of course any misunderstandings and the subsequent reactions are also quite valuable in understanding how people identify themselves.

BTW, What IS wrong with being treated as MEAT? Some people PREFER that. Its interesting that some people seem a bit hypocritical and lack openmindedness. People seem to be projecting THEIR ideals and goal of polyamory yet fail to respect those of others who may just be looking for a sexual relationship. Sex and love are 2 distinct things that DONT have to happen together in a relationship.

[jem_is_bi]

I have been with the same (male) partner for 3 years and if it lasts forever I will be very happy. But, in the beginning, IT WAS FANTASTIC MIND-BLOWING SEX that was all the motivation we needed to keep us together.

[TaylorMade]

HMMM...its interesting how different the swinging communities and bisexual communities differ. As regarding the authors credentials verses ours. Actually we are both degreed and have studied with the late Lynn Atwater (The Extramarital Connection: Sex, Intimacy, and Identity) who was a pioneer in the sociology of sexuality. We owe our learned approach to her and a few others.
Its clear that some on this site lack the ability to debate rationally. What we have seen so far in many discussions on these forums are quite a bit of elitism and defensiveness. If enough people convince themselves to believe in ONE narrow view espoused by one "expert" the next thing you know they discriminate against others with contrary viewpoints. We are thinking that the LBGT community is too self centered and elitist. Its interesting that this seems to parallel we've seen in the gay community who distain bisexuals with a similar discrimination also used by the str8 community.
We start to wonder if people even understand definitions properly in refering to polyamory. As a word becomes more common it is more likely to be misused from its original definition. For example there are many "house flipping" tv shows that use terms like restoration, renovation and rehabilitation to mean the same thing when by defintion they are each markedly different. Things get confusing and misunderstandings ensue. Of course any misunderstandings and the subsequent reactions are also quite valuable in understanding how people identify themselves.

BTW, What IS wrong with being treated as MEAT? Some people PREFER that. Its interesting that some people seem a bit hypocritical and lack openmindedness. People seem to be projecting THEIR ideals and goal of polyamory yet fail to respect those of others who may just be looking for a sexual relationship. Sex and love are 2 distinct things that DONT have to happen together in a relationship.

As most can tell you the real world and the classroom is pretty different. And that goes for sex too. Theory's great, but sometimes it just has to be changed when the rubber (Snerk!) meets the road. And that's where the REAL learning comes in.

Once again, it's apparent you:
1) Attempt to speak for all couples.
2) Refuse to concede that, "Hey, some couples are pigs and that's why the vast majority of single bi women refuse to have anything to do with them!"

You once again are deflecting from the main issue at hand, and casting aspersions on others. . .it really is getting obvious at this point, guys.
And as to how to debate rationally. . .once again, it is showing that there is some projection afoot and that denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

Some people like to be treated as meat. . .I'm sure but I don't think they've posted in this thread, or in the other one from the other site I've linked. I didn't bring up love. I brought up friendship and respect, and I don't think it's unfair to ask for either or both. And if you look at the responses, both here and there, I don't think anyone is projecting anything. . .maybe one notable exception.

*Taylor*

[rissababynta]

Its clear that some on this site lack the ability to debate rationally. What we have seen so far in many discussions on these forums are quite a bit of elitism and defensiveness. If enough people convince themselves to believe in ONE narrow view espoused by one "expert" the next thing you know they discriminate against others with contrary viewpoints. We are thinking that the LBGT community is too self centered and elitist. Its interesting that this seems to parallel we've seen in the gay community who distain bisexuals with a similar discrimination also used by the str8 community.
We start to wonder if people even understand definitions properly in refering to polyamory. As a word becomes more common it is more likely to be misused from its original definition. For example there are many "house flipping" tv shows that use terms like restoration, renovation and rehabilitation to mean the same thing when by defintion they are each markedly different. Things get confusing and misunderstandings ensue. Of course any misunderstandings and the subsequent reactions are also quite valuable in understanding how people identify themselves.

Well, you can always go to other sites where EVERYONE is on a pedestal and they are all incredible debators. Maybe you would feel more at home there? Good luck finding that though m'dear.

Now, how was that for being rational!

[TaylorMade]

*Taylor*

[12voltman59]

This is some funny stuff---the thing of it is---I think this is pretty much the way this sort of thing all too often gets played out.

Of course-----bimales need not apply to take part in this at all!!!

Bisexual males----ewwwwww grosssssss!!!!

[vittoria]

That's flippin hilarious...

Gotta show Cho... he'll get a kick outta that!

[M. Wolfe]

That flow chart is the funnies thing I've seen all week!!!




Few people in thier entire lives would find a hot bi babe who gets you to the end of that flowchart.

[Realist]

My GF and I have considered a single person of either sex, or couple, to research the possibility of becoming intimate. I have been in two poly relationships during my life; she has not, but thinks it would be appealing to her. In our case, I feel the vast difference of our ages is a barrier to our being lovers with the same people....she does not, so that remains to be seen. We have agreed to share, or not, depending on the situation and, if she becomes attracted to someone, who does not want to involve me, I will allow her to make that decision. We are very happy with each other and if we meet someone(s) that will be fine, but, we do not need others to define ourselves. It is wonderful to feel secure in who we are to each other and that either of us are flexible enough to mold our lives to suit the situation.

[moonoverwater]

I am that 'unicorn' that everybody is looking for... On dating sites, 80% of the emails I get are for that, even if I expressly state on my profile that I don't want that. So... yeah. I have also been there/done that with the dating a married couple thing. And there are loads of problems. Couples should not expect to have someone to fill a 'slot' that they have created... or to make that woman fit into their pre-existing life. And the attraction may not be the same with both partners... And ugh group sex gets really old lol... anyhoo, I will step off the soap box. Like someone else said, remember that your target "HBB" is a person too, not just someone you can use and stow in a closet later when you don't want her around.

[FalconAngel]

Didn't read that article, since I have read that theme before, elsewhere. It is always the same story, too.

Couples looking for bi "girlfriend" have much higher expectations than suit reality, so they keep saying that Bi women are hard to find. The real problem is that their version of perfection chases potential 3rds away and even when they find someone that seems perfect, their expectations get in the way and ruin things for them.
They just need to get their expectations a bit closer to reality, but it's that fantasy/reality battle. What we want and expect V what we are going to get. Understanding fantasy V reality is something that we can use in all things in life, too. Not just this subject.

[pasco_lol_cpl]

All I can say is that we found the thread to be educational and thanks for posting it.

[Jackal]

Thank you very much for posting it. I see a lot of bi and married or committed women bitching about the same thing. Has it ever occurred to them that maybe what they're offering just isn't that appealing? Oh great, I get to be an experiment for the girl or/and entertainment for the guy. Or that someone would want to just fulfill all of your fantasies and have no expectations of their own. Most of the couples looking for bi women really need an ego check.

A lot of the scenario described in the article sounds like being kept as a pet and you have no idea how much it pisses me off when couples insist that the third be single and exclusive. Sorry, not interested in being a sex toy to be stuffed in the closet while not in use.

[Lady_Passion]

Interesting topic. I'm a bi man interested primarily in a bi M/F couple, so it may be kind of apples and oranges to comment on this topic. There are a LOT of bi guys looking for a M/F couple. We're not the elusive "unicorns," more like surplus farm horses standing around eating all the hay and dropping poop everywhere.

One thing that grabbed my attention was the idea of a couple wanting their desired third party to MOVE IN with them. Not merely to be exclusive with them, but to move in. As someone else pointed out, it's beyond presumptuous to think that a "hawt bi poly babe" would want to be exclusive with anyone. To me, the whole point of being poly is to avoid the sorts of entangling alliances that dash so many marriages, for example, on the rocks of "infidelity" to use a word I dislike. The idea of moving in with a couple (not that anyone's asked me...) gives me douche chills of a kind I normally associate with unexpected mail from the IRS. Please people. You want a pet, get a dog. It takes enough courage to be bi and poly in this straitjacketed world. Let's not make it even harder on our own kind than it already is.

Agreed and thank you.

Recently a former BF and I were looking for a third woman. He blew it a few times 'cause he approached women inappropriately. The women of course backed out. Needless to say we're done. Oh well. Live and learn, right?

As a single bi woman, I agree. Don't approach me like I'm a piece of furniture that may or may not work out in the decor of your life. I have my own and would never attempt reshaping another person's life to fit my own needs. God/gods help the person who does that to me. At best there would be a brief discussion, during which they would get an earful unlikely to be forgotten.

I should clarify we were not seeking a relationship at all, rather a casual ongoing arrangement. Not polyamory, but a fun time with people able to appreciate occasional NSA encounters and who preferred no personal ties; whose goal was to minimize health concerns by being able to trust a few like minded partners. Probably shouldn't have posted this response since, as an afterthought, we were not aiming for polyamory.

Apologies :.)

[crazy_cat_lady]

omg...that is terrible! one should never treat a independant person like that article described.

and I would like to state for the record that neither me nor my bf would ever treat anyone we consider to include in our relationship like that. I truely believe that we could be flexable enough to give her an equal relationship if thats what they desired, if not then thats ok too, but never as a toy or babysitter.

And my bf and I have been...not exactly looking for someone to include in our relationship, more like a person who we meet and if more develops then great! If not...alright then hope we can be friends.

See I'm not experienced at all so I'd like to meet someone that I can be with to get that experience with but I also want to be friends with her first, and if she doesnt want my bf involved that's fine. my bf and I have that arrangement if she does thats great too.

The bottom line of what I'm getting at here is if I did meet either a woman or a guy it would totally be up to them what they wanted from the relationship. if they wanted to join us wonderful! if not thats fine too! we would never force them to do anything they didnt want and we'd treat them as people with clear communication....

Now if only I could find a woman in my area!

P.S. btw the thing about the third being young and hotty and the couple being old and notty... what if you have the opposite problem...the couple is young and hotty and the single bi men and women we find are old and notty? then what?

[Realist]

CCL, These connections and the subsequent relationships (in my view) can't be successful, unless everyone involved are on the same sheet of music.

As you suggested, being friends is important. Certainly physical and emotional compatibility is extremely important, too. Without respect, mutual interests, and goals that match, it would be fruitless to enter a multifaceted engagement like this.

From an early age, I'd long been interested in an unconventional, loving, and sensual relationship, with others........and attempted a couple of them without the prerequisites. (each attempt had it's own set of criteria) It's easy to see why they didn't work, because the stage wasn't set correctly, beforehand.

However, I learned to be open and up-front with my thoughts and desires and, if my prospective partners' ideas about how things should go fit in with mine, we could proceed. Some compromises may have to be made, but a person can't give up too much. After those truths were established and all agreed how to proceed, that first relationship became a magnificent and thrilling event, that I had dreamed of. One that followed, a few years after that first one. was as remarkable, but very different. Those two were the only successful ones I've experienced.

When it all comes together, a relationship involving more than one partner, can be one of the most delicious pleasures afforded us!

Those relationships, both of which were very loving and sensual, were two of the highlights of my life.

[still_shy]

Ahhhhhh, my laptop crashes, I'm offline for a few months and I MISS THIS?!?! Months of cum threads and blow job pieces and finally something I can sink my teeth into and I'm not around....such is life I suppose. I'm coming back to this one to add my two cents...when I'm a little more awake and can type coherently

[void()]

Not stepping out to toot a horn, merely offering a view. I'm the bi half of two couples. I am the bisexual husband to my heterosexual wife and bisexual significant other or boyfriend to my boyfriend/husband. As far as I gather from him, he is quite alright being homosexual. I may be in error and he can correct, if so apologies hon.

The view is both of these people love and respect me, for all I am. How can do any less for either of them? That's obviously rhetorical as I do not feel compelled to do any less. At times I feel inclined to do more for them both. Then at times being human weighs in and says "hey bud, take a break or we're gonna crash ya!" I push me too hard, never really found a break point yet. Not saying I can't or won't.

Guess my view is simple, first respect yourself, then give others the same courtesy. But gee, that's like kindergarten level stuff, Golden Rule.

[Realist]

Void, that may be kindergarten stuff, but it's something that every lover should keep in mind. Respect earns respect, as contempt earns contempt.

About couples seeking women: My GF and I have discussed this subject. She would like to have a female lover and I would be OK with her having exclusive contact with her. It would not bother me, at all, if they wanted to be alone, without my presence. I'm older and a lady her age might feel uncomfortable with me watching, or being involved. I would never insist on being present, forcing myself into their union.

Yes, I'd enjoy being invited, but that's not for me to ask. I know I wouldn't mind her joining me, with a male lover, if she was so inclined. But, again, that's up to her.