Hi Ya'll.
According to what I heard yesterday the movie is not due to open nation-wide until early January.
It opened in 5 cities las weekend and is set to open in 5-10 more this weekend.
The plan is to keep building it up until right before the Golden Globes which will pretty much ensure that HL will win several of the 7 nomminations he has so far.
So hang in there...it'll be worth the wait.
If you play with fire you might get burned...but you get to play with fire.
Yeah, I heard something similar to Biscuit, but different. I heard (or thought I did) that it opened in just 3 cities (New York, L.A. and San Fran) on Dec 9, but will open nationwide, and here in Canada too, two weeks later, on Dec 23. But I admit to not being sure that I heard that correctly.
That list is great Arana. Thank you!! I hope many of you find it helpful.
Our editor-in-chief, Jon, will be reviewing the movie for us as soon as it opens in Toronto.
I really hope this movie goes a long way to getting folks talking in the mainstream media about bisexuality and the challenges faced by gay/bi people in rural North America who choose to marry in spite of their feelings for people of the same sex.
Re: Brokeback Mountain
Hi yall, The one thing thats really pissing me off about this movie is that they are saying its a gay movie.. While clearly the two cowboys are bisexual. They git married later,love women the whole shmere. Its just so clear that everyone does not want this to be defined as a bisexually themed presentation. I just dont like the fact that they cant accept bisexualtiy as a way of life. Just wanted to put myin . Thanks yall .
Tex.
Charles,,,Tex...
You're 100% right. The men are sexually and emotionally attracted to women. It's just that their love for each other was stronger so they cheated. Gay my ASS! It just makes me so mad. Maybe I'll write something for my school paper. You know what, I think I will.
Gay cowboy movie. Bull. Shit.
AHEM. As for my favourite gay/bi themed film, I recently saw D.E.B.S. on TMN (it's on there now) and I loved it. It's four sexy, gorgeous young women (including Meagan Good and Devon Aoki!!) who attend a spy training university. One character develops a lesbian (actually now that I think about it, she seems bi?) relationship with a rather unorthodox woman. (Not spoiling the movie.) It's worth it for the eye candy alone, but it's also funny and very entertaining. The funny part is that nobody in the film exhibits any homophobia whatsoever. Kind of a vision of how the world could be.
I live in L.A. and I saw the movie about 2 weeks ago. First I want to say that I loved the movie, and thought is was really emotionally stirring. The characters were all completely believable, and I thought it was generally a great movie.
That being said, let me weigh in on the gay versus bi thing. Now I am the first one to advocate bisexuality and recognizing the nuances of it. But in the case of this specific film, I really don't feel like the 2 cowboys are bisexual. I think they are men who later on in life discovered that they are gay, and have to continue to have sex with women because of the social factors that they find themselves surrounded in. I think that if they were left completely to it, they would have made the decision to be "completely" gay... if such a thing even exist.
Jackadust... Have you seen the movie? Nothing about these 2 cowboys is emotionally or sexually attached to women. The only thing they are attached to is each other. That's kinda the whole premise of the movie.
Brokeback Mountain is getting spun as a "gay movie."
The other day-there was a feature piece on the movie that aired on a National Public Radio program. The film was reviewed favorably, but in both the review and a subsequent news story that followed the review-- in both pieces, "Brokeback" was referred to as a "gay" film.
It has been the same when the film has been mentioned on those daily entertainment shows like "Entertainment Tonight."
It makes me want to scream at my TV or radio when I hear the movie called a "gay" film.
"Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere..." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
I think you mean me. Yes, I have seen the movie and that is what convinced me that Jack and Ennis are bisexual. The previews make it seem that they are not attracted to women but the movie seems to make it pretty clear that they are. Why would a gay man be so thrilled to have sex with a woman, or to see boobs? What about the way Jack looked at Lureen in the scene where they first meet? He sees something special in her, and he wants her. There is immediate chemistry there. The premise of the movie is that Jack and Ennis love each other more than their wives and can't express that in a homophobic society, but I certainly do not think they are mono.Originally Posted by Manical
Personally I am not too concerned with labelling the characters as either "gay" or "bi".
In one of his books ("The Bisexual Option", I think) Doctor Fritz Klein defines a term he calls "situational bisexuality". This is where a person who is basically either completely gay or completely straight has a sexual relationship beyond the person's "normal" experience because of the situation the person finds himself in. So for example two straight women trapped on a desert island might have sex, making them bi for the time, but after they get off the island they might never have sex with a woman again. Or, a man who is basically gay might have a sexual relationship with a woman (even a very long one resulting in children) because he feels incredible pressure to live the "straight life". Both situations are what can be called "situational bisexuality".
I think the latter example is similar to the situation the two characters in the movie find themselves in. There is no doubt that there are many many men and women around the world who are in a similar circumstances - in a different world they MIGHT be completely gay, but they end up being bi as a way to cope in a homophobic world. This is a form of bisexuality AND homosexuality in my opinion - it is "situational bisexuality". I think you could debate endlessly whether people in that situation are "really gay" or "really bi".
The one thing I strongly disagree with though is folks who label the MOVIE as "Gay, not bi" (as at least one reviewer for a gay publication did). That's just not accurate - it is clearly a bisexual MOVIE - as a matter of fact it could be THE bisexual movie, as I don't think any other movie has explored in such a big way, the concept of situational bisexuality, or bisexuality as a way of coping with one's own homosexuality in a society that doesn't yet accept it.
That my 2 cents.
- Drew
Last edited by Drew; Dec 26, 2005 at 2:58 PM.
Excellent comments Drew. My sister is visiting until Jan. 5th so I have to wait until she leaves to see it, can't wait!
RUN FOR YOUR LIFE
The highest reward for a person's effort is not what they get for it, but what they become by it
I think that's akin to saying that in a world free of homophobia, I would be a lesbian, and I am surrending to patriarchy by sucking dick. I just don't agree. It's that type of logic that people are using here. They say Jack and Ennis are in "sham" marriages - with women they enjoy spending time with, get along with and are sexually attracted to. I just do not think that is true.
I am sorry, I just have heard my sexual orientation explained away too much. No, I do not fuck men because there aren't any nice girls in my city. I fuck men because I like to. And I fuck women because I like to.
Jack and Ennis love each other deeply. But don't explain away their relationships with women by saying they don't exist. We pink, purple and blue unicorns do indeed exist. You just can't see us.
Quoted from JustaDuck,
"I fuck men because I like to. And I fuck women because I like to."
You hit the nail on the head for me.
So who wants to see the movie with me?
Gay, Bi? Whatever.
I can't wait to see this movie, these guys look hot! Drew I have been to Calgary and know what you mean about the cowboys lol
Cheers all.
'The mind is open, the body is willing, and the heart is free to love all beings equally.'
Bi-ten
This is a little off track but I saw something on Logo channel and wondered what the difference is between GAY Rodeo and REGULAR Rodeo??? Sorry for being so dense but I'm curious.
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...7a7ac275b3.gif
Hugs,
Arana
Life is a strange thing...
Just when you think you've learned how to use it, it's gone.....
I didn't say everyone who is bisexual is "situational bisexual". And I didn't even mean to imply that the characters in the movie are - I haven't seen it yet, so I don't know, and how could one tell anyway? Although I was perhaps jumping to conclusions and I implied that perhaps at least one of the characters may be a "mostly gay man, who is situational bisexual". But really I have no idea; trying to picture either of the characters in a non-homophobic world would really be just pure speculation I guess. The point I was trying to make (with only moderate skill) was what does it matter? If you are bi as a means of coping with being gay in a strongly homophobe world, or if you are bi just because you are and would be no matter what, it doesn't really matter, in my opinion. That's why I think the debate over labelling the characters as gay versus bi is a hopeless one. I hope that helps clarify my thoughts.
- Drew
Last edited by Drew; Dec 26, 2005 at 9:08 PM.
I'm not sure but I think you have to be gay to be a contestant in a gay rodeo. And I assume they don't even ask at a regular rodeo, but perhaps the religious conservatives are working to change that.
- Drew
Your point was well made. I'm just saying that, it matters because biphobia and monosexism run so horribly rampant in our world. I disagree that anybody could be bi as a means of coping with being gay in a homophobic world. How is that person bisexual? If the individual is sleeping with women because it is expected of him, and he is not attracted to them, then he is a homosexual. Period. That is the definition of what a homosexual person is. Attracted to one sex. The same one that they are. I know I am really neurotic about this but I suppose I like my mental lines very very clean. Call it OCD of the intellect.
Why would a homosexual, as defined, look at Lureen the way that Jack did? Why would a homosexual be so sweet and gentle with Alma (at first) the way Ennis was? He might be nice to them, but not romantically.
In the context of the trememdous ignorance and vitriol directed at bisexual and pansexual people, I think it certainly does matter that the concept of "bi" doesn't even reach people's heads when they consider this story. The immediate reaction is "Bi??? Why, that's impossible!" Why is that?
But, I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me. We're mostly bi here and we're all on the same side (or non-side, as the case may be). I'm just saying, please consider my argument.
Last edited by JustADuck; Dec 26, 2005 at 9:16 PM. Reason: syntax error, oops
And a very good argument it is. You raise some valid points.
I just feel that there are many people who are strongly influenced by their culture/situation and I think it can affect their deepest desires. So lets say, as an example, there is a man who is bisexual, and say he is married, but also sleeps with men. And this man might, if pushed to quantify his sexual desires, describe himself as 85% gay and 15% straight. Now maybe in a different world, say in the year 2100, he might for all practical purposes be completely gay. But in this world he isn't. Maybe because he has been influenced by his situation; perhaps he lives in a rural area and wants to stay there, or maybe because he has always wanted to have kids, or maybe because his extended family would never in a million years accept him as being gay. So maybe this situation has influenced him, and is largely responsible for the "15% straight" side of him. I think he is still a bisexual man, he meets the definition afterall - he is attracted to both sexes.
This is just a hypothetical example but I think in our world there are many men who are similar to this hypothical example.
So I think situational bisexuality does exist and is common, or perhaps more accurately I should say: I think our situations/culture undoubtedly affect our desires for the same sex and opposite sex one way or the other depending on our situation. And I think this is still bisexuality - just a little different than the "bi to the bone" feelings that some feel.
- Drew
Hmm. I think that is right on. I was misunderstanding your point before. You're saying that bi = desires both/all, but those desires themselves are a part of sexuality that is molded by the culture. Like how they like huge asses in Mozambique (I think it's in mozambique), and emaciation/starvation imagery here. I totally think that's true.So I think situational bisexuality does exist and is common, or perhaps more accurately I should say: I think our situations/culture undoubtedly affect our desires for the same sex and opposite sex one way or the other depending on our situation. And I think this is still bisexuality - just a little different than the "bi to the bone" feelings that some feel.
I'm not saying that sexual orientation is completely determined by DNA. I know that maybe in a parallel universe, I may be mono, and not attracted, ever, to someone outside my mononess. But I don't think the opposite could happen here in this universe.
But I still have to disagree about the situational bisexuality thing. I think two straight women having sex on a deserted island would make them two straight women having sex. If a gay guy gets or drunk or high and sleeps with me because of that, I would still say he's homosexual. If he does feel that way about women, then he was bi in the first place.
Just a quick note,
I just saw the movie and I will not spoil it for anyone. It is a powerful story about two beautiful men who fall in love in spite of their social situations.
It is sad and joyous on many levels, especially to anyone who has lived through a love that cannot be completely acknowledged (for whatever reason). There are also many beautiful lessons that we can take from it.
Highly recommended...and pass the kleenex.
'The mind is open, the body is willing, and the heart is free to love all beings equally.'
Bi-ten
Just saw it myself~~finally made it out to the multiplex in the burbs on, of all days, Friday the 13th. It is a powerful film, indeed, and I predict at least two Oscar nominations. Heath Ledger, for his portrayal of Ennis, and the cinematographer for his/her stunning panoramas of the Canadian Rockies (supposedly the Grand Tetons in Wyoming.) I won't attempt to analyze their sexuality, others here have done that already, but the characters remind us only too vivdly how reckless it was to be messin with another man in sixties Wyoming (or Texas, or Montana, or...) Has it really changed that much?
I think there are still many places in this country where deviating from the perceived sexual norm can get you killed. I have heard that this film is only being distributed in urban markets. I don't know if that's true, but, if so, why do you think that is? Homophobia, and the violence it spawns, is alive and kicking in 21st century America, folks, and we'd best not forget that.
Peace and love, sailorashore
Brokeback Mountain opened in Billings Friday. One lady interviewed best summed up the attitude about the movie here. "This isn't what cowboys are all about". Even my wife has the opinion that cowboys can't be bi or gay. I thought that the same percentage of cowboys would be bi or gay as say bankers. Man, am I ever getting an education.
RUN FOR YOUR LIFE
The highest reward for a person's effort is not what they get for it, but what they become by it
Re: Brokeback Mountain
In the '60's, and even in our time, gay men shielded themselves from society and themselves by maintaining relationships with members of the opposite sex. This is the context of Brokeback Mountain. To imagine this film as a bi-sexual film in disguise is to take away from the genuine intent of the story.
From the moment we meet Jack Twist we notice him giving Ennis Del Mar (in the words of Jerry Falwell) a homosexual look. The film makes it clear that of the two men Jack is most comfortable with his sexuality and is willing to break with social conventions to be with the man he falls in love with. Jack knows what he wants and goes out and gets it, whether with Ennis or traveling to Mexico or with other men he meets along the way who are inclined as he is. But he always returns to Ennis. Indeed, with Ennis' brooding and torn nature one does ask why. What is certain is that for Jack the encounter with Ennis on Brokeback Mountain was far more than simple "situational homosexuality."
Ennis is a far more troubled and tragic character than Jack. His sad mix of "fear of success" and "martyr" syndromes lead him to live a life that is empty and meaningless. After the first encounter with Jack, Ennis starts the denial game by stating, "I ain't queer." Of course Jack agrees, but also counters that it's nobody's business what they do while alone on the Mountain. This moment was so lacking of power that it made one long to insert the scene from "My Own Private Idaho" when the River Phoenix character confesses his feelings for the Keanu Reeves character. Sadly this wouldn't be the only "what could have been a powerful moment of truth" missed by Brokeback Mountain.
We learn that Ennis as a young boy knew of two older men that lived on a ranch together. One of the men is brutally murdered. In Ennis' retelling of the story, he states his father made sure that his two young sons viewed the body, and that it may have been his father that killed the man. Hold on a minute. Is this why Ennis is in such denial about his feelings toward other males? Did Ennis, even as a child, have feelings towards members of his own sex? Did his father recognize that Ennis might be gay, and use the murder as a potent warning? Like a stone that has skipped too many times over the surface of a pond, this topic sinks below the waves of more predictable storytelling.
Of course, Ennis marries his hometown girlfriend even after his affair with Jack. Of course, in their lovemaking Ennis flips his wife on her belly and enters her in reminisce of his lovemaking on Brokeback Mountain. All this is predictable gay male trapped by societal norms storytelling, and it's where Brokeback Mountain falls short.
Ennis' reaction to Jack's return is disturbingly reckless for the denial we are asked to believe Ennis is in. The revelation that Ennis’ wife tied a note to his fishing line that Ennis never found lacks any significance, since we know she witnessed Jack and Ennis kissing the day of their reunion. The fact that Ennis never found the note only confirmed what she and the audience already knew -- Ennis was having an affair with Jack.
The sadness of this film is that it could have been so much better. The exploration of the barrenness of Jack's childhood bed room, the bitterness of Jack's father, and the revelation that both Jack's mother and father knew of Jack's desire to bring a man home to live with on the family ranch would have made this a much richer movie. Instead the movie focuses on Ennis' denial and emptiness.
Despite all of this, the film begs you to like it. The best scene in this movie is the "I wish I knew how to quit you” scene – it should be a song. There is breath-taking scenery, and the performances of Heath Ledger (A Knight’s Tale) and Jacob Gyllenhaal (Donnie Darko, The Day After Tomorrow) certainly deserve recognition. Brokeback Mountain shows glimpses of what could have been a great movie. Instead, it turns out to be a simply OK film, which I wish I knew how to quit.
Yay for Brokeback Mountain at winning both best director and best drama for the Golden Globes. Also for Felicity Huffman for winning for her part in Transgender. Has anyone seen this yet? I've seen snips but it hasn't come to my area yet.
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...7a7ac275b3.gif
Hugs,
Arana
Life is a strange thing...
Just when you think you've learned how to use it, it's gone.....
I saw Brokeback Mountain this afternoon. I grew up in Casper Wyoming so it was cool to hear all the places I knew and had been so many times. I have been in every "cow" town in Wyoming and understand how someone would have problems dealing with being gay even in this day and age let alone 30 or 40 years ago. Yes, not that it matters, my opinion is that they were gay. Wyoming is VERY red neck. LOL, no shit. Great movie, sad but sure touched your emotions.
P.S. Not everyone in Wyoming lives in poverty in some run down old ranch house.
RUN FOR YOUR LIFE
The highest reward for a person's effort is not what they get for it, but what they become by it
I love this movie!!
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks