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when I got started in all of this being bottom was not a common thing.. Craigslist back then was really the only place to post adds, and it was full of tops posting to find someone to bottom for them., you never really seen adds from a bottom looking.. I am not really sure what and when things changed but now days there are way more bottoms posting adds than tops.. how did it become the new way?? I am really curious how and why it has changed so much..
I'd noticed the change somewhere around 1990 or so; there were just more guys who were bottoms and the many tops out there who were pitching a bitch about, um, the more feminine guys who were bottoms. It started out... slowly but by the time being able to hunt for a guy online became a thing, there was already a glut of bottoms out there and it eventually got to a point where bottoms seemed to outnumber tops. It is the "new way" of things? I don't think so since pre-Internet, I came across many a bottom but I think there was a... transition from guys being versatile in this to just being a bottom because you don't see that many versatile guys these days... but there are more bottoms than you can shake a stick at and I think that it's because now, a lot of guys understand that it just suits them to not be a top when it's time to have sex with a guy. I was running into guys who said they were a bottom because... they "sucked" at being a top. Better and easier to receive the dick than to give it.
It's not that it's really changed - it's that there's high visibility these days and thanks to the internet and society slowly accepting how men can have sex with each other and, yeah, guys understanding that it's okay for them to "let their inner girl" out to play. I've learned that there's a difference between bottoming and being a bottom and I find it all fascinating and more so when I've always been versatile; I can bottom but I'm not a bottom. I can top but I'm not a top. And not in the way both roles have seemed to be "strictly" defined - and this is the thing that had gotten my attention and being with guys who were bottoms and "following the rules" of being a bottom - what bottom do and don't do and... isn't this interesting? I thought so.
Still, I do believe that there are lot of bottoms because a lot of men are... finding themselves and every last one of us eventually learns what is going to work for us, don't we? And if that's being 100% bottom - and like you seriously are - then it is what it is, right? Given this, it's kinda funny that there are tops complaining about there being too many bottoms - and bottoms asking, "Where are all the damned tops?"
Interesting..........and yeah back in the 1990s, people that bottomed were considered gay or feminine. That may have had something to do with the idea that gay men are bottoms and it used to amuse me that people would have a blank look on their faces when I would say if gay men are all bottoms, who the hell is on top ?
I am versatile myself, But in our closed group of my intersex partner, two females and another gay, it seems like I am the bottom most of the time as my partner loves to top, the two females love to peg and the other guy enjoys being a bottom but loves to top me.
Most of the guys that are interested in joining us, are tops... and they say its hard to find bottoms..... tho to be honest I think its more they want to fuck my partner.
Most of the bi males I know, are bottoms but in talking with them, they tend to be more selective in whom they have sex with, than the tops do.
lots of truth there...............a similar issue I run into
"I am a total top only "
This seems to be code for, you suck me, then I fuck you..............and of course, they do nothing for you. Tops used to at least do some sucking
I am Versatile, love to get it and give it! Versatile guys are nearly impossible to find, most all are either top OR bottom only.
I'm versatile, at one point I listed as a top but I always would be happy to suck your cock prior to fucking you. I have only been fucked once by another guy and it really didn't do much for me, I enjoyed fucking him though. I liked being pegged by an old girlfriend more, maybe just because it was kind of kinky, she had no idea I was bi.
As a top though it is always a big turn on to make my bottom cum. One bottom friend I would reach around and jack him off till he came in my hand, then I would feed it to him while fucking him.
In my former time as a sex worker I encountered many men, who like me, found bottoming as a way of abandoning responsibilities. I have met, and know, doctors, commercial pilots, CEO's and other "executive" types who, for that moment in time, have no decisions to make, no budgets to worry over, no family cares. They (and I) just want to kneel, open our mouths, or bend over or lay back and feel that cock inside working until they cum. It beats the shit out of worrying, at least for an hour or so.
"In my former time as a sex worker I encountered many men, who like me, found bottoming as a way of abandoning responsibilities."
Yup. I encountered men who explained that they bottomed because it gave them that chance to get away from having to be all manly and topping women and this, too, was around 1989-1990 when I encountered the first guy like this. "I don't have to do anything other than suck your cock and then relax and enjoy you fucking me," one guy said. It had me thinking that, yeah - men spend damned near all of their lives having to do man stuff including laying the pipe to women and even I would have days where I had a hard day at work - and coming home to not one but two women who were expecting me to screw them before the night was out, so I understood what these guys were saying.
It wasn't going to stop me from being versatile in these things but it made a lot of sense to me and bottoms seemed to start outnumbering tops - but now, tops were excluding bottoms who were feminine-behaving and preferring more masculine bottoms - but I felt those guys were a rarity at the time and it's to note that tops were staying away from me because, I felt, my versatile nature would "make them" suck dick and be fucked. Even though somewhere around 1994 I noticed that bottoming had gone from being a girly thing for a guy to do - and that meant he was a sissy gay dude - to being a very masculine thing to do and I saw more manly and macho guys becoming bottoms and, well, now, isn't this interesting, and more so when I always believed that it takes being a man to take another man's dick in your ass; tops used to suck dick, stopped doing it for the longest time, and some are slowly coming back to it.
In the 1990s, damned near all of the guys I had sex with were bottoms and a few of them switched from being tops.
all I know is that when I started out in this I was bottom and bottoms at that time were looked at as being gay, fem, queer!! We were looked down soon.. we were not really guys because we spread our legs and let other guys fuck us.. we were a necessary evil.. guys wanted us around to fuck but there was something wrong with us because we liked being fucked.. even when being transitioned and being a very very passable full time female when it came to sex having a dick I was basically a second class person.. was looked at like I want and am going to fuck you but I don’t want to ever associate with or be seen with or have anyone know I know you.. when I was sleeping with the ceo guy and being kept as his sex toy., I was kept out of sight out of mind.. he would come fuck bring others to fuck me and then leave.. it was almost as if I didn’t exist other than to serve him and the guys that he brought or sent to me to fuck.. I was basically his, their whore!!! Mind you at the time I was given a really nice place to live and made really good money.. was given really expensive gifts.. all I had to do was be available whenever they wanted..
now a days bottoms are a dime a dozen it seems.. if you look on doublelist, or any of the other places guys post there are like 10 to 1 more adds from bottoms looking to suck or get fucked.. being very extremely candid about what they offer or are looking for.. I mean the adds are very graphic and explicit.. I wonder how it got this way?? I understand that times have changed and the public opinion is relaxed and the stigma is all but gone being bottom.. the rolls have basically reversed.. granted there is still no real stigma about being top more than there was before.. but being bottom is almost a badge of courage or something to look up to.. now it dose seem that there are way less top guys out there than before.. or maybe it has changed so much in reverse that tops don’t really need to post.. like it was for bottoms when I started.. this is all just something I have notice over the years., I am extremely luck that my guys pretty much get referred to me by the guys that I am servicing or have serviced in the past.,
Well, I've attributed some of this to... instant gratification or "I want what I want and in the exact way I want it." Guys who sucked dick and got fucked by guys were gay, punks, sissies, faggots, so on and so forth. It was 100% unmanly for a guy to suck cock, swallow cum, and offer up their ass to fuck - but the guys who'd do them would behave like their role in this wasn't gay and this all had to be kept under wraps because it could never be known that you fucked a guy who wanted sex and like he was female.
What changed? Guys knowing what they want and it's within their rights to want the dick the way they want it and being very explicit about it - and these men seem to outnumber tops but that's not really the case; it's that a lot of tops... want their men to act like men in bed and a lot of bottoms aren't acting like that - and tops want to know where all these bottoms came from... but they've always been around but today? A man is more... free to be the bottom he wants to be and without the stigma of being less than a man and, my, doesn't this get interesting?
The roles haven't really reversed because tops are tops, bottoms are bottoms - but bottoms are more... demanding and in ways that tops might find... disturbing. It's like tops are supposed to have their way with a bottom but today's bottoms are all about having their way with a top and... what's up with that, right? Once upon a time, a true top had a hard time finding a bottom because a lot of men found this to be too girly and gay for their sensibilities but now? My protege still asks me where all these bottoms are coming from and I tell him that these guys have always been around, but they're move visible today - and they want the dick the way they want it and if you're a top, you'd better be able to give it to them or... no deal. You'd think that tops would be in heaven with all the men who are bottoms and even submissive ones but that doesn't seem to be the case... and I'm not really sure why other than what tops have kinda believed what it means for a guy to be a bottom. Submissive but not submissive; tops, I dunno, expect their men to behave like men when having sex... and a lot of bottoms don't because they don't have to and it's their preference - and you cannot question a guy's preferences, let alone try to tell him that he can't be the way he wants to be - and opposed to the way bottoms are supposed to behave.
Things change. Sometimes for the better and sometimes not even close but it remains true that if you don't change, you'll be left behind and I'm thinking that there are a lot of tops who haven't adjusted to this change and... they're being left in the dust and have bottoms wondering where all the tops have gone.
What ?????Quote:
Originally Posted by biguycancun
Okay, maybe it is different being in an , shall we say industry...................but damn if find I put in a lot more work
i will top or bottom there are some tops out there but way more bottoms now days it seems
I didn't mean to give the impression that I just relax, bend over and take it up the ass. I put work into being fucked, either face fucked or ass fucked. I'm a willing and enthusiastic participant. What I meant was, for me and others I've spoken with, is that the mundane, everyday bullshit flies away when someone is inside me, and the only things I think about are satisfying my partner and of course, myself. How hard can I clamp his cock as it recedes from me, how far can I take his cock in my throat, does he want me to cum now or later, etc? The electric bill, the price of gas, the tax bill, do not exist for that period of time. I want to take him balls deep, feeling them slap my ass or my chin. And that's what I'm thinking about. And how can I do it? Squat harder? Open wider? Let's try this! I hope I've clarified my thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazminedress
Quote:
Originally Posted by biguycancun
ohhhh okay, I was gonna say it is a hell of a lot more work to me
As a guy who'll bottom, I've learned to appreciate bottoms and what that means for them. For me it's like, okay, get in and lemme feel that nut, pull out and thanks a lot - but for bottoms I've been with, it means a hell of a lot more to them because they're about receiving the pleasure but making it good for me, too, like, I didn't make a mistake in agreeing to bone them. And, sometimes, it was better than sex with a woman. It's different when it's "just something" you'll do and opposed to when doing it means everything to you and I just find it interesting that there are more guys who are bottoms than there are tops willing to give them da bizness.
Interesting and clear distinction you make between someone who is willing to bottom and someone who is a "bottom". I don't have as much experience with a wide range of guys as many on the site, most just my versatile friend and the odd third we've added over the years, most of whom were definite bottoms. So my only experiences on that level were never strictly one-on-one.Quote:
Originally Posted by KDaddy23
One of my goals when I decided in my 30s i wanted to see what it would be like playing with a guy was to feel a cock in my ass doing "da bizness" (as you put it), being already well aware that part of the anatomy was pretty primed to receive pleasure. Always it has been in the context or returning the favour, though. Fucking a nice ass (male or female) has always always felt good, but to a great extent in the context of the pleasure being given. Sphincter feels nice, but the full plush of a nice vagina can't be bettered in that sense as far as I'm concerned. Hearing a guy moan and feeling him twitch when you hit things the right way is a delight and so is feeling him thrust and knowing your ass it pushing him over the brink. I kinda like things both ways and don't imagine myself in the "specialist" category somehow.
NOPE I'm not into penetration. Frot , kissing, massage, stroking is just fine for me.
Top and bottom is not necesarily Bisexual. It could just as well be Gay if only males are involved. A woman who wears a strap on may be bisexual.
You have told us more than one time that you enjoy being a bottom. You do not need to keep repeats with a slight twist.
And that's fine, Tenni. It's what works for you. Top and bottom are sexual roles that, yeah, isn't a sexuality thing - but is a sex thing and, no, there's a difference between engaging in homosexual sex and being a homosexual or, yeah, the sex is gay... but the two guys getting into it might not be gay. Not sure if a woman strapping one on is bi but since they like using them on other women, well, um, if the other woman wants to be screwed, women don't normally have a penis so a strapped on one serves the purpose - and not all women who use this toy are lesbians and may or may not be bisexual if they strap it on to peg a guy... and a guy who might not be of a mind to say that he's bisexual because she pegged him... because he doesn't have to be - but he's into having his prostate stimulated.Quote:
Originally Posted by tenni
If you're not of a mind to engage in anal sex, it's not a problem because a lot of men don't want to... because they don't have to. You - and just like the rest of had to do - learn what you like, what you don't, what you will and won't do and I wouldn't bust your ass over what you say you're good with and what you're not good with. Open your mind some more, my archnemesis, because it's not just about what you think.
It's not a distinction that I make - it's one that came to my attention and one that made me go, "Hmm..." and, really, all I had to do to see it was to look at myself and, by "definition," I've never been a bottom... but I have bottomed because getting dicked down feels good... most of the time. What makes me different is that you could top me and... I'm gonna want to top you but if you're a top, well, that's not supposed to happen because bottoms do not top. I wish I could say that I'm "making this up" but I ran into this once I got to be a teenager and "transitioning" from being with guys who were versatile to guys being either a top or... a bottom. What do you mean you're not going to suck my dick? What? Tops don't suck dick - only bottoms do? Guys who are of a mind that, as a bottom, they're cocksuckers but, um, bottoms don't get sucked and that makes some weird sense since tops don't suck dick... which is silly because I know some who do. I know tops who will bottom because I've topped them because at the end of the day, it isn't the role that matters but what you want to do and, yeah, who you'd do it with that's outside of the defined roles of top and bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlestyx
It's not all about what you do but why you do it, you know, if you're not going to mind.
You get it, don't you? I know that if a guy wants to bottom - even if he's a top - then that's what he wants to do... but being a bottom is a whole 'nother thing because that role has been defined and tightly adhered to and it make me scratch my head a lot but I know that I'm biased because I'm versatile - but I understand the top/bottom roles. Tops do this, don't do that; bottoms do this, and not that. Ah, but if you want to bottom for a guy or top him, you can... if you want to and no matter what role you've adopted.
I understand and agree completely. For me it has always been about the best giving and receiving of pleasure I can manage in any given situation. I guess I've been fortunate that the guy I've played with for the past three decades is also versatile and "roles" were never part of the equation except when we added a third (or once a fourth) in which case we were always both "tops". Just the two of us it has always been just about making each other feel good in whatever way suited the day. We both like some kissing and nipple play and 69 is a main focus but every once in a while one of us will say "damn I really want to fuck your face" or something. Hah. Anal has almost always been a reciprocal thing, though not necessarily so...Quote:
Originally Posted by KDaddy23
@Fiddlestyx: I've believed that it all depends on who you're with and if you have a connection with them because it's always about what the two of you can - and want to - do together. Had a mini-relationship with a guy that started out as blowjobs only. Months of this pass and one day he says that he wants to try anal with me and that he thinks we're ready for it. He doesn't know that I'd always been ready for it but I'm more experienced than he is. He tops me but I sense that it's not his cup of tea. He bottoms for me and... bingo! Now he's always bottoming for me but one day asks if it'd be messed up if he wanted to fuck me... and I tell him that it isn't because we should share sex with each other and in whatever ways we want to.
His second time topping me was better than the first, but he says, "I'll just stick to you fucking me if that's okay." I said it was but if he wanted to go for a third try, I wasn't going to tell him no because of the way we felt about each other. In this setting, you find what works for you but even when you're not "connected" to a guy, every one of us who has had sex with a guy winds up learning what works the best for them and it's usually top or bottom - and there are rules that goes with this and, I've felt, so rigid that a lot of guys think that they can't change their mind, i.e., a bottom topping.
Gasp! Without offense to any bottoms here, if that's your thing, it is what it is... but you don't have to be "stuck" in the role and the same goes for tops...
Getting "stuck" in life in general is something to be avoided as far as I'm concerned. People get into ruts, over time they get deeper and eventually they can't see over the sides any more. Happens at least as easily and frequently in matters sexual as in anything else. People tend to find something that works for them and then just keep repeating it, at some point often (it seems) becoming afraid to try anything else in case it all fails. Good gracious, it is only sex... something doesn't work out as thrilling as imagined, try something else next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by KDaddy23
The "bottom/top" dynamic is an interesting and sometimes seemingly more fraught one than I think it needs to or should be. When I started playing with my buddy three decades ago he was pretty clear that there dynamics to be adhered to, the first being that we only ever bottom for each other - to the rest of the world we were both to be tops. That hasn't actually changed as yet. One thing that has changed has to do with "taking a load". In the early days if I was sucking him (or vice versa) there was to be no taking a load in the mouth (or swallowing, heaven forbid!) as that was a "bottom" sort of thing to do. I finally just took a load and swallowed it - the earth didn't swallow me up. Now we both happily take each others' loads, swallow and even share them.
@Fiddlestyx: So you were aware of the dynamic as well; I think a lot of guys are aware of it and stick by the rules when, maybe, they have situations where they don't want to. Yes, as long as no cum was involved, it was a very top thing; if sucking in a 69, still a top thing because only bottoms get on their knees and suck cock. It would make me wonder WTF when a top tells me that if he wasn't a top, he'd suck me off... and I'm asking him what difference does that make and... it's because he's a top. "Not supposed to" doesn't mean that you can't if you want to...
Oh lordee, yes. I don't understand it all, at least not in any personal intuitive sense. If turns you on to suck a cock, have one in your ass (our put yours in one) etc. why should some artificial sexual politics be allowed to have anything to do with it? Maybe one day you feel like sucking, another you don't (hasn't happened yet, but...) - why not? I don't always feel like having a cock in my ass, but if mine is going in someone else odds are I'll want his in mine as well. I don't see it as "identifying" for one role or another, why would I?Quote:
Originally Posted by KDaddy23
@Fiddlestyx, yeah - you see the problem! You connect with a guy who's a top and all you feel like doing is sucking his dick but in his mind, after you suck it for a few, it's going in your ass... because that's the way this works; except, if you're not properly prepared for that or not of a mind to be boned, well, that could be a deal breaker. In this, so many men get locked into what they want to do without giving a lot of thought about what they could do... if they weren't locked into being a top or bottom. Preferences, of course.
I... like bottoms. Most are quite easy to get along with and most aren't opposed to me sucking them off and those who are, well, I can be quite convincing that it's going to be great to get sucked off as well. Whether he gets boned or not depends on how I'm feeling and... maybe I just don't want to fuck. It can be a deal breaker with some, but not all, bottoms; for as long as I've been around, bottoms get fucked and that's the way it's supposed to be. But what if he doesn't want to be fucked? There's only enough time for dicks to be sucked? And... what if the bottom wants to lube up and give you da bizness?
The notion that sex always has to lead down the same garden path has always baffled me. With my first wife I made a point of trying to make things flow down different streams all the time. One time we'd lay out the whole thing with gobs of foreplay leading to long intercourse in various positions. Another time it would be an intense "quickie" or 69 or taking turns going down on each other. Sometimes we'd masturbate together (with a lot of chatter) like we did in the early days of what began as a long distance relationship when we often only had phone sex to rely on. Sometimes we'd stroke each other while intensely kissing. Sometimes I'd just get inside her, get her into a deep breathing pattern and talk us both into a massive orgasm. Too bad she went looney at one point because the sex was sure delightful. Sorry, feeling nostalgic...Quote:
Originally Posted by KDaddy23
My male "playmate" has a path he seems to need to follow and I keep trying to job him off it and just wander in the wilderness for a bit. yeah, usually one would kinda end up making some cum, but apart from that?
I am sorta-maybe coming to a point here... in recent times I've noticed that both men and women have become increasingly set in their ways and expectations when it comes to sex. Why? Not entirely sure. I guess it is the old "I've found something that works so why change" thing, but honestly it isn't a recipe that only works one way surely?
Yeah - if it ain't broke, don't fuck with it. Once a guy decides he's a top or a bottom, he's unlikely to change that. Like, my protege complains about the lack of sexual diversity he experiences and I tell him that it's because he does the same stuff every time with his FWB - who's a bottom's bottom from what I hear. I suggest to him, "Do more bottoming." He waffles, says that I'm right, and keeps right on sticking to the rules of being a top. His idea of diversity is doing the same thing with different guys... who are only his type of guy, and those guys are bottoms (among other demographic stuff). But he'll ask me why bottoms don't use their dick and "like men are supposed to." Well, because that's not what bottoms do and I pointed out to him that he's, at best, iffy about bottoming... because tops do not bottom. And he refuses to change even though he agrees that being stuck in a single role doesn't give one the full sexual experience possible with men.
Tack on immutable and inviolate preferences and, well, guys get stuck in a role because it's what works for them and there's no need to change anything.
Whew, I'm worn out reading this thread. My husband is over here laughing at me.
He says he enjoys the orgasms from anal, he'd never experienced it until me. When he opened up to the real deal he finally got me, why I enjoy it so much. He was like OOOOOOOOOOOOOO now I get it! I bare witness that is was much louder and much more graphic than that. He relates anal orgasms to my multis. I have anal orgasms as well but nothing to compared to his, tough my vaginal orgasms are. Makes since why he is into it. As for why he doesn't do men, I've said it before, he me for that and he loves our asses (women's) not men's.
I am always amazed at the intensity of the anal orgasms I have managed to produce in some of my bottom regulars. It's such a full body experience for them if makes me want one too!Quote:
Originally Posted by wifekinky4husband
Two bottoms together -- yeah, it sort of reminds me of dry humping my best friend during puberty when we were both horny little hamsters...
I blind dated for seven years and the majority were bottoms .. I eventually just gave up.
To a certain extent I can be vers, -- It can be really fun controlling someone else's sense of pleasure when they are ready and willing .. the umm .. feedback .. from them is a real turn-on.
But at heart I'm a lover, not a fighter; and not a very physically aggressive person by nature so it doesn't work out in the long run if they REALLY want to be dominated.