So. Who's watching the news about Iran?

[_Joe_]

So they had their election.
"Ahmadinejad was re-elected with more than 62 percent of the vote"

Theres rioting in the streets and accusations the vote was fixed. Youtube has several videos of the rioting and what not.

It's spooky watching it, but sorta...I don't know the right word.... seems the Iranians are tired of their leader and this was just a slap in the face of "Democracy" they wanted.

[_Joe_]

If you mean Ahmadinejad order a quick and clean assasination, then yes, I think he will go quitely.

[jamieknyc]

It is unlikely that the Islamic republic will be overthrown. But there is a huge amount of anger in Iran about how the country's oil revenues are going into ayatollah's Swiss bank accounts while they have 30% unemployment at home. If the protests get worse and the army and security services start getting restless, I can see the ayatollahs throwing Ahmedinejad to the wolves to save themselves.

[_Joe_]

I can't find the link now, but apparently the army has declared they are Neutral and will NOT fire on their own people.

[vittoria]

I can't find the link now, but apparently the army has declared they are Neutral and will NOT fire on their own people.

which should prove to be VERY interesting....:(

[jamieknyc]

Of course hey also have the Revolutionary Guard, which is loyal to the regime. Dictators often set up separate military/paramilitary forces loyal to themselves as a check on the regular army (Hitler's SS, Stalin's NKVD, Saddam's Republican Guard, etc.)

[Lateralus]

There's not gonna be any change until they get rid of their supreme leader. The presidency is just bullshit.

[jamieknyc]

The supreme leader isn't leaving voluntarily, so barring a revolution (not impossible given the history of the country), that isn't changing.

But even if they succeed in putting doen the protest, Ahmedinejad will start his second term under a cloud, and Obama's engagement policy will be left hanging in the air.

[12voltman59]

I think that if there is patience in dealing with Iran--the situation there is going to take care of itself--at the hands of the Iranian people---you have well more than 50 percent of the population of that country are under age 30--a young generation that don't have the sort of hatred towards the West as did the generation of those who were part of the Iraniain "revolution."

That the election there was rigged is no surprise-----but I think the desire of the mass number of the Iranian people to move from away from a hardcore Islamic rule to a more modern, democratic one is a huge force that cannot, at some point--be stopped----and while the clerics may have won this battle--they are surely losing the war and this obvious move to steal this election may have been the biggest mistake they could have made--

We in the west need to have our leaders speak to what is obvious----as did Joe Biden on Meet the Press on Sunday that the overall numbers of those who voted in the electiion came from the cities and not the rural areas---areas that are not favorable to the current president---I can never get his name right----

Make it clear we know that the current regime stole the election and that we support the move of the Iranian people to seek more freedom and democracy.

I think its only a matter of time until things change for the better in Iran and what we in the west need to do----help out in more covert ways to foster those changes instead of taking an open beligerent, belicose stance towards Iran. For us to do that only feeds the notion that the "infidels are against us"--something that helps rally even those in Iran opposed to their government to defend it when we make threatening noises towards them.

[evilpanda]

http://current.com/items/90205606_leaked-election-results-show-mahmoud-ahmadinejad-came-third.htm

He came in THIRD. and isn't as good at covering up rigged elections as the GOP, apparently.

[_Joe_]

SHots are being fired, and theres some coverage on msnbc.com about it :/

Not surprised.

[_Joe_]

oh fuck

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1184614595?bctid=26415347001

this is so sad.

it seems the voice of the revolution there...shockingly enough, is ... Twitter.

Folks are twittering whats happening in live time, and it's going downhill.

[_Joe_]

forgot to link one of the more popular twitter accounts

http://twitter.com/persiankiwi


http://twitter.com/iranelection


Youtube front page is featuring all the videos from there.

[12voltman59]

oh fuck

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1184614595?bctid=26415347001

this is so sad.

it seems the voice of the revolution there...shockingly enough, is ... Twitter.

Folks are twittering whats happening in live time, and it's going downhill.

I hate to see blood spilled in places--but if some bloodshed means another fucked up rotten regime winds up "in the dustbin of history" then it will be a good thing----like I said----the powers that hold the levers of control in Iran--might have wound up screwing themselves by trying to ripping off an election where "the numbers don't begin to add up"-they were fracking stupid---to say that Ahmadinejad won 63 percent of the vote--that is simply not believeable-they shoulda said that he won with maybe 51 percent of the vote----that was a bit more believable---but not that he won by that big a margin----like I said---the current regime in Iran may not go away in the short term----but the fact is-- in the long term--the changing nature of the Iranian society is clearly against continuing the status quo in that nation.

I really feel that the days of the great Iranian Revolution are numbered!!

[boca.openminded]

Ahmadinejad did not steal the election he physically took it.

The airwaves are controlled by the govt so him being the dictator stopped ALL news (paper & tv) airing his competition (whatever his name is).

Ahmadinejad also stopped websites and ALL instant messages that promoted his competition (whatever his name is).

Within the first 20 minutes they posted him as a 65% winner. Hmmm, how can that be unless he fixed it.

FINAL NOTE: how did Ahmadinejad win in the city that his competition (whatever his name is) came from? Thousands came out to a rally by his hosted by his competition BUT Ahmadinejad claims he won that region. Hmm, how can that be? Actually, it is impossible..

and do not say "well Gore lost his state vs Bush". Its not the same...

Here are 2 things that worry me more then Iran (#3):

1) North Korea is far scarier..

2) military companies are also feeling the tightening belt of the economy so to pick up lost income they are selling military planes and weapons to outside countries. You know some terrorist country with a boat load of cash will knock on the door of Lockheed (for ex) and Lockheed will only care about putting money in their pocket...

3) Iran

[jamieknyc]

No one believes this election wasn't fixed. It5's kind of obvious. The only question is whether the opposition can do anything about it.

[_Joe_]

Im still at a shock to learn Twitter is becoming the voice of the Iran resistance so to speak. There's four prominant Twitters that reading their comments, you'll have hairs standing up on your neck.

http://twitter.com/persiankiwi the most well known one it seems
http://twitter.com/Change_for_Iran
http://twitter.com/StopAhmadi
http://twitter.com/oxfordgirl

http://iran.twazzup.com/ has alot more

[12voltman59]

Yesterday they had huge protests about this-it was reported that the line of marchers protesting the election results was nearly FIVE MILES LONG!! and today they are having similar sorts of turnouts with today's rallies.

To add though to what I said yesterday about I think some reason will come to Iran----when corrupt, powerhungry regimes like Iran's feel threatened--they are like a cornered and wounded animal--they are the most dangerous, lashing out mindlessly at anyone who comes close---so the Iranian regime can sure cause trouble in their region and elsewhere----
but still--I want to take the optimistic view of things and hold to my view that what we are seeing is some point along a path that sees the end of the Iranian regime--it might take ten or twenty more years, but time is on the side that this will be--the bulk of those who took part in the revolution will be dead in the next 20 years and more than 90 percent of the population of Iran will have been born long after that event took place.

As young as Iran's population is---there was an Afghan film maker on "Morning Joe" this morning who said that over sixy percent of Afghanistan's population is under age 30 and the median age of the Afghani population is age 17!!! That is one young population!!! They need to bring some sort of industry to that country and put people to work--that is too many young hands that are idle!!

[12voltman59]

From what they say--as best as can be determined-something like 82 percent of the eligible to vote in Iran did so!! I wished we had that sort of turn out.

To respond to Az's comments----the fact is--that in Afghanistan---the unemployment rate is something like 65 percent for those people---and for young men-that means they cannot afford to pay the doweries they must fork over in their culture to the families of potential brides--thus--those young men have no way to get married--and to shut off the futures of all those young muslim men is not a good thing---the fact is---give people jobs--and they have the responsiblities to fullfill--while it does not totally negate their desire to go and turn themselves into human bombs---it does greatly lessen that prospect---so it is a good thing they have the ability to get a decent job of whatever nature suits their culture----it doesn't necessarily have to be a job that we might find suitable---

Just like here in "the west"---most of the people in the "mideast" (and now China and India) desire to live a modern, suburban "middle class" sort of life--they want to have a family---have a decent house and buy cars, TVs, appliances, furniture, computers and cell phones----those people need a degree of economic, political and social freedoms----at least of a nature that fits their cultures.

[hudson9]

From what they say--as best as can be determined-something like 82 percent of the eligible to vote in Iran did so!! I wished we had that sort of turn out.

Think about this in the context of the NeoCons' claims that we had to "bring democracy" to the middle east -- The Iranians seem to have a lot more interest in participating in democracy than we do -- and seem to get more upset when they're being obviously shafted! (Florida, 2000, anyone?)