Some testimony from you guys, please?

[M. Wolfe]

I was inspired by the thread 'Fucked up shit (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7008)' to ask you guys for your experiences of people prejudging, making incorrect assumptions, myths etc. of other people reacting to you being bisexual.

What have you been told? Have you been discriminated against? I particularly wanna hear if people in the gay community have been hostile with the assertion that you are in fact halfway closeted. Did people take you seriously? Tell you that you were going through a phase? etc.

I want to get a gauge of how the world around you guys has reacted to bisexuality, partially so I can see what I should potentially expect. I have heard things that are commonly said against bisexuals (like the "you are just going through a phase" or the "you are gay but don't want to bear the full burden so you stay 'halfway' out of the closet" etc) but I've not heard many first hand accounts of this kinda thing.

I'll start with mine. I told my close friends about 4 months ago and they were a little edgy. They sorta knew what I was trying to say but since I didn't say "gay" they weren't exactly sure how to react, so they made some harmless jokes and that was about it. But talking to them now I get a completely different run down of events.

I'm told:
"We thought that you coming out as bisexual was indecisive and we were unsure of what that exactly meant in the way of how you felt towards guys and girls and to the degree of which you did, so it was hard to take you seriously"

The reason this particularly ticked me off was because they didn't really ask me anything. I may have "appeared" indecisive, yet they didn't bother to ask for further clarification, so I figured that they 'knew' how I felt toward girls and other boys. I want to be understood but I can't do that if I'm not asked questions, and I'm not going to berate them till they understand for sure.

[Lonewolf76]

Great question! When I first came out, I was visiting a gay couple who are close friends of mine. I've known one of them for over 32 years. I explained that I was coming out because I was bisexual and equally attracted to both men and women and I didn't want to ignore or supress my attraction to men any longer. At their house they both said that was fantastic, they were proud of me and welcome to the alternative side of life. I felt really great about that. Then they took me around Ft. lauderdale - where they live and took me out to many gay clubs. I thought that was great because it would give me a chance to check out some hot guys. Then I noticed that they were introducing me as their friend from Colorado "Who just came out today". They were'nt specifying that I had just came out as "Bisexual" - this led everyone concerned to assume that I was gay. I didn't challenge them on the spot because I didn't want to embarass them - however when we got back to their house - I did ask why they did that - the response was "People in the "Community" will never accept that - they'll just think you're confused and never take you seriously." I finished my vacation a little bit wiser about the narrow-mindedness and discrimination displayed by the gay community... Bisexuals don't exist in their world. LW

[M. Wolfe]

That's very bizarre and saddening. I don't claim to be an expert but it's obvious that the gays have fought hard to be recognised as people, yet forget that bi's are too.

Since I'm not particularly 'out' and not at all 'in ya face' these things, for me, haven't really come up cos they haven't had the opportunity to.

Oh and one other thing was the idea I had to shoot down quickly that bisexuality was linked to sexual deviance.

From my friend Scott:
S: "its just being bi sexual is "usually" just a sexual life style thing rather than a sexual preference.", and "Others I have heard of are generally just [b]sexual deviants who want thumbs in both pies."

[bityme]

I was inspired by the thread 'Fucked up shit (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7008)' to ask you guys for your experiences of people prejudging, making incorrect assumptions, myths etc. of other people reacting to you being bisexual.

What have you been told? Have you been discriminated against? I particularly wanna hear if people in the gay community have been hostile with the assertion that you are in fact halfway closeted. Did people take you seriously? Tell you that you were going through a phase? etc.

I want to get a gauge of how the world around you guys has reacted to bisexuality, partially so I can see what I should potentially expect. I have heard things that are commonly said against bisexuals (like the "you are just going through a phase" or the "you are gay but don't want to bear the full burden so you stay 'halfway' out of the closet" etc) but I've not heard many first hand accounts of this kinda thing.

I'll start with mine. I told my close friends about 4 months ago and they were a little edgy. They sorta knew what I was trying to say but since I didn't say "gay" they weren't exactly sure how to react, so they made some harmless jokes and that was about it. But talking to them now I get a completely different run down of events.

I'm told:
"We thought that you coming out as bisexual was indecisive and we were unsure of what that exactly meant in the way of how you felt towards guys and girls and to the degree of which you did, so it was hard to take you seriously"

The reason this particularly ticked me off was because they didn't really ask me anything. I may have "appeared" indecisive, yet they didn't bother to ask for further clarification, so I figured that they 'knew' how I felt toward girls and other boys. I want to be understood but I can't do that if I'm not asked questions, and I'm not going to berate them till they understand for sure.

Having had two wives, over a period of 42 years, both of whom were also bi, we were always closeted with regard to family and employment. We were only "out" to those with which we relations or friendship where the status was relevant. Since the death of my second wife, I still remain closeted as far as family, children, and employment is concerned. As far as I'm concerned, it's none of their business.

Now, back to the subject. My experience has always been positive. No one has ever discriminated against me because I am bi and both friends and acquaintances in the gay and lesbian community have been very accepting.

Probably my best friend in the gay community has never had an experience with a woman and shudders when he thinks about it, yet he is the one that most often will ask for details about my sex life. He is also partnered with a man who had come out of a 7-year heterosexual relationship who now identifies himself as totally gay.

I have breakfast every Sunday with a group of gay friends, attend gay parties with and without a sexual component, share season tickets to the Orange County Gay Men's Choir with a gay couple, and go on outings and occasional vacations with gay or lesbian friends.

In all of this, I have never had a problem. Perhaps this is also because while I am open about the fact that I am bisexual, I have never made it an issue. I am not offended being introduced as "a friend" as opposed to "a bisexual friend." In fact, I am generally introduced as "my psychologist friend" or "my lawyer friend" (I am both). Such introduction provides an immediate basis for conversation and acceptance and the issue of sexual orientation becomes secondary. The fact that I am an old man may also have something to do with it.

Another interesting point is that no gay man has ever refused to kiss me because my lips have tasted the sweetness of a lady's pussy. :tong: LOL

[orbit]

Ok, I have very little experience (as discussed in my recent post) but I have spoken to two exclusively gay men, both of whom I informed I could never give up women completely, and they were nothing but supportive. They told me that if I was ever interested in pursuing things to give them a call lol nice to have options. I have told a bi female friend of mine, and she just said that she thinks most ppl are bi to some degree whether they admit it or not. I have spoken to a heterosexual female friend of mine who said that she thought that most ppl given the right circumstances probably could be attracted to both genders. I am yet to tell any heterosexual men, I imagine the result may be somewhat different, although so far my gay friends have been very accepting (possibly because they have hidden agendas to some degree lol) so maybe the same would be true of the straight ones (without the hidden agendas).

[M. Wolfe]

I am yet to tell any heterosexual men, I imagine the result may be somewhat different

It's understandable though. A hetro guy will hardly be likely to ever be in a position where gay/bi issues are every pondered upon. Although you get the occasional bigoted strait whom changes his tone when someone he knows, perhaps a friend or close family member turns out gay.

Otherwise they don't often have reason to think anything but "those people are screwy. They ain't right in the head" (My grandfather once said this long before I came out).

Girls have it lucky in this society, they are encouraged to try to 'flex' and experiment. A girl who would or could get nasty with another girl is considered desirable. Whereas a guy's manliness or is threatened by even the slightest gay thing, so we learn to 'fear' it. This is why actually being non-hetro can be so scary and depressing.

[orbit]

It's understandable though. A hetro guy will hardly be likely to ever be in a position where gay/bi issues are every pondered upon. Although you get the occasional bigoted strait whom changes his tone when someone he knows, perhaps a friend or close family member turns out gay.

Otherwise they don't often have reason to think anything but "those people are screwy. They ain't right in the head" (My grandfather once said this long before I came out).

Girls have it lucky in this society, they are encouraged to try to 'flex' and experiment. A girl who would or could get nasty with another girl is considered desirable. Whereas a guy's manliness or is threatened by even the slightest gay thing, so we learn to 'fear' it. This is why actually being non-hetro can be so scary and depressing.

The difference between how male bisexuality and female bisexuality is perceived by the general public is amazing. Men are still considered dirty disease spreaders by many I think. I hear bigoted things all the time by people who assume that I am entirely heterosexual.

[M. Wolfe]

I hear bigoted things all the time by people who assume that I am entirely heterosexual.

Really? What do you hear, and from who?

[orbit]

Really? What do you hear, and from who?

Well, I work in a mall across from my gay friend. The woman who works in the shop next to his came into the shop one day looking to buy some things, as she often does. She told me to not let them convince me into doing anything with him, and that he and his gay colleague are dirty, and indeed gay men in general are dirty, and do nothing but spread disease. She has seen me talking to him a fair bit since and I'm not sure she approves, part of that though is because she's keen to get me and my assistant together lol. Just stuff like that I guess.

[Georgie_Girl]

I think the worst I've ever heard was "Bisexuals don't know what they want" and that was from a transsexual! My straight friends generally don't care, but one of them tends to freak out if I kiss a chick in front of her.

[FalconAngel]

I have a Lesbian friend that has known for almost the entire 25 years that we have known each other.

When we were both single, and were hanging out at the beach together, we would point out girls that we think each other would like, but she would point out both the guys and girls that she thought I would like.....kind of like a second set of eyes.

Of all of the people in the Gay community that I have met, she has been the most understanding of what it is to be Bi. In the straight community, I have had more questions (honest ones) than comments one way or the other.

I have, however gotten a few of the "riding the fence" type of comments; more from the Gay community than the straight community. And have gotten more of the "you're really just Gay" comments from the straight community than the Gay community.

[M. Wolfe]

I have, however gotten a few of the "riding the fence" type of comments; more from the Gay community than the straight community.

I think there must be some bitterness to get that kind of marginalisation from a cross-section of people who ought be more accepting,

[boca.openminded]

I have, however gotten a few of the "riding the fence" type of comments; more from the Gay community than the straight community. And have gotten more of the "you're really just Gay" comments from the straight community than the Gay community.

Falcon - I totally agree... I hear that same thing. Either in chat rooms or through replies to ads that I have posted, gay men were outright mad at me. Everyone told me that I was really gay but I just did not know it yet. I don't know why they felt like they had to go out of their way to tell me such nonsense.

A few yrs ago I was on the phone with a straight female friend and the conversation turned to sex. I dont know why but she then asked me if I had any desire to be with another man. To this day she is the only one that knows of my curiosities. She accepted it and that was it. The only thing we disagree with is that she says that I am bi because of my desires where I say I am curious because I haven't had much experience. Every once in a while she will ask me if I fulfilled my curiosities and is always disappointed when I tell her no but she understands why...

I dont feel the need to tell anyone else.

[AmericanBeauty]

Great question! When I first came out, I was visiting a gay couple who are close friends of mine. I've known one of them for over 32 years. I explained that I was coming out because I was bisexual and equally attracted to both men and women and I didn't want to ignore or supress my attraction to men any longer. At their house they both said that was fantastic, they were proud of me and welcome to the alternative side of life. I felt really great about that. Then they took me around Ft. lauderdale - where they live and took me out to many gay clubs. I thought that was great because it would give me a chance to check out some hot guys. Then I noticed that they were introducing me as their friend from Colorado "Who just came out today". They were'nt specifying that I had just came out as "Bisexual" - this led everyone concerned to assume that I was gay. I didn't challenge them on the spot because I didn't want to embarass them - however when we got back to their house - I did ask why they did that - the response was "People in the "Community" will never accept that - they'll just think you're confused and never take you seriously." I finished my vacation a little bit wiser about the narrow-mindedness and discrimination displayed by the gay community... Bisexuals don't exist in their world. LW

Lone-You should have been more assertive, spoken up, and actually told people how you came out as bisexual and not let those bitter queens speak for you.

Also, just because those men are homosexual it does not mean that they do not believe in bisexuality at all or that it simply "does not exist" in their world at all, or that most gay men don't understand bisexuality.

You were in bars/clubs where most if not almost everyone there is a gay man, you're a lot older/divorced and you were being introduced that you had just came out, and you were with a gay couple so of course everyone is going to think that you're gay by default/association unless you tell them otherwise or don't speak up. You know yourself better than those old bitter queens do so why let them speak for you?

When I'm out in gay bars I don't care if people think that I'm gay by default just because I'm male and I'm there. Or if I tell someone that I'm bisexual and they don't understand it since nothing I do or say is going to change their mind, and it's not my problem.

People have actually been really understanding and cool about it, and nobody has ever said that I'm confused and I really don't care if people think I'm gay at first or by default when I'm in a gay bar.

I know I'm going to get flamed/slammed for this viewpoint, but I don't care.

This is one reason why I don't like bisexual discussion groups because people are quick to revert to victim status and just whine and mope and say "blah blah blah blah blah poor us! Nobody understands us/me!" yet they do nothing to change this or become visible.

They don't come out to people claiming that their sexuality is nobody else's business at all, or they just don't flat out ignore people who don't understand bisexuality like gay people do to people who don't understand homosexuality do. :2cents:

[Bi_Druid]

I seem to have been rather lucky, going by what I've heard or otherwise been led to believe what to expect.

What I'm saying is most people who've actually bothered to ask, or otherwise raise the subject, have been perfectly fine with it.
The only times anyone has ever used anything like "you're confused" "it's only a phase" or any such like has only ever been in friendly jest.

Those that knew me before I 'came out' as bi still accept me as they did before, and new friends I've made since have known about me being bi as good as from the word go, and have never made any big thing about it one way or the other.

Like I say, I guess I'm just kinda lucky to be surrounded by the right sorts of people. If any do think such silly thoughts as "it's only a phase" or what-have-you, or otherwise think any less of me for my way of life, they haven't been brave enough to come forward or otherwise make their feelings known to me. So if there is any prejudice against me being bi, I'm blissfully unaware of it, as it hasn't sown itself to be a problem yet if at all ever.

[ChristineKov]

I haven't gotten alot of really strong or negative reactions.
One frustrating reaction happens to be from my best friend, who's a gay guy. Pretty much I didn't star by coming out to him as a bisexual because I've known him all through highschool when I was originally trying to pigeonhole myself as straight or a lesbian. So eventually it was more like "I've figured out I'm bisexual".

I get the vibe from him that he dosent think bi exists. I went out on my first girl a while ago and we didn't really click. And then the other week I was at a party and met a guy and after the guy got my number and headed out I told my friend and he was like "see I told you you're not a lesbian".

It reallly pissed me off. Of all the people to get that kind of reaction from it makes me sad that it's my best friend.

[Lonewolf76]

Lone-You should have been more assertive, spoken up, and actually told people how you came out as bisexual and not let those bitter queens speak for you.

Also, just because those men are homosexual it does not mean that they do not believe in bisexuality at all or that it simply "does not exist" in their world at all, or that most gay men don't understand bisexuality.

You were in bars/clubs where most if not almost everyone there is a gay man, you're a lot older/divorced and you were being introduced that you had just came out, and you were with a gay couple so of course everyone is going to think that you're gay by default/association unless you tell them otherwise or don't speak up. You know yourself better than those old bitter queens do so why let them speak for you?

When I'm out in gay bars I don't care if people think that I'm gay by default just because I'm male and I'm there. Or if I tell someone that I'm bisexual and they don't understand it since nothing I do or say is going to change their mind, and it's not my problem.

People have actually been really understanding and cool about it, and nobody has ever said that I'm confused and I really don't care if people think I'm gay at first or by default when I'm in a gay bar.

I know I'm going to get flamed/slammed for this viewpoint, but I don't care.

This is one reason why I don't like bisexual discussion groups because people are quick to revert to victim status and just whine and mope and say "blah blah blah blah blah poor us! Nobody understands us/me!" yet they do nothing to change this or become visible.

They don't come out to people claiming that their sexuality is nobody else's business at all, or they just don't flat out ignore people who don't understand bisexuality like gay people do to people who don't understand homosexuality do. :2cents:

Americanbeauty - You may get slammed or flamed for your comments - BUT NOT BY ME - you are right on the money in my opinion. The reason that I didn't speak up in Ft. Lauderdale is that 1) I was JUST out and new and unsure of everything and 2) The gay couple I was with are very close/very old friends and I didn't want to embarass them. I shared that experience because it's been the major experience of misunderstanding that I have had. I have since grown as a person and now ID myself in clubs/bars as bisexual when it comes up. Like you - I let them know who and what I am, and really don't care what they think. I no longer sit in silence as a victim but stand up for who I am.
I do agree that based on the circumstances of being in a gay bar/ with gay friends that most would assume I was gay. The thing that really got me was not the club patrons assumptions - but my friends comments speaking for "their" culture. I have seen that same attitude in Colorado where I live and I quickly correct it. I ahve aslo recently found that by speaking up you can change perspectives. I recently had a gay couple tell me that bisexuals don't exist. I asked them to desribe what I was wearing. They did. Then I very politely said "Well you can see what I am wearing, so you can see me - so bisexuals MUST exist!" We had a good laugh and great communication and they changed their perspective. Thanks for the input. I agree with you. LW

[veganbigmac]

I've got some great stories to share on this subject.

In high school I hung out with a group that was "the gay clique" there were two bi chicks, two lesbians, a gay guy, and me. We were all out, and hence became fast friends and hung out with one another on Friday nights . Despite my being out as bi my one friend Ashlee would constantly pressure me to "really come out" as being gay. She was a fiercely proud lesbian and she thought that you're either gay or straight and that there is no middle ground. Yet despite her dichotomous viewpoint we would mess around quite frequently. We never had sex, but I was the only guy she ever let go down on her.

More recently, about a month ago I was at the bar with my (now ex-) girlfriend. While there I struck up a conversation with my friend Justin who's gay. Somehow or other we got to talking about being gay and I told him "Well I'm bi and I have a girlfriend" and he told me that he was surprised because I was the first bi guy he'd ever met with a girlfriend. Then he asked me some qualifying statements like "So you've been with a guy before?" "Yes of course." "How far have you gone? Have you takenit up the rear?" "All the way, yes blah blah blah" It seemed to placate him that I had actually been with guys before and not that I was just curious about it. But then again maybe he was just testing the waters because I was out at the bar this weekend and ended up going home with him and showing him just how far I go with guys!;)

I guess these two stories illustrate one central theme. People will talk a lot of talk, but when it comes down to it, everybody loves sex too much to conform to labels forever.

[M. Wolfe]

I'm at uni, as I've said, and flatting with some other students. 4 dudes and a chick. 2 of the guys I've known for 2 months or so and we're getting to be good mates. These guys are strait, at least they are perceivably, so in casual conversation 'gay' is often used as an expression of disappointment or disapproval. Because of that I'm not entirely sure what their views on non-heterosexual(s/ity) are/is. I'm at a point where I would like to tell them, but I'm going to hold my tongue for now, until I'm more sure. Out of all my friends up here, 3 know so I enjoy some ability to say stuff in group conversations that have certain subtext for those 3, almost like an in-joke. e

[Jackal]

People will talk a lot of talk, but when it comes down to it, everybody loves sex too much to conform to labels forever.

Interesting thought, I wouldn't say that its true all the time but I've certainly seen it to be true a lot. Identity is all well and good but fun is fun.

[M. Wolfe]

Just today I was talking to my ex-gf. We were hanging out a friends place and since coming out, we hadn't talked about, so we talked about it.

One of the comments was
"Paul (She always calls me Paul even though Im mike - long story).
Why couldn't you just be attracted to one sex?"

It was a rhetorical question but it I still felt I should respond, it annoyed me.

"Why the fuck should I?!
In this would you get people attracted to the opposite gender, and some who are attracted to their own gender and it doesn't matter in the end which you like... But God forbid you like both?!
You can't chose who you are attracted to."

It doesn't make sense to me why there is this default position that it ought to be one or the other, not both. Where does that come from?

[Holmes]

It is funny because I am still all new to this(recent bi and all), but my godson who came out as bi at the age of 15. He was a bit of a cross dresser when from 2-9 . His dad is cool with it but thinks that he is truly gay and is just sayin he is bi to make it easier for everyone to understand and accept him as he is right now. . I have heard from lesbian friends they would never knowingly date a bi woman because in the end they'll leave you for a man when the chance comes by.
But I diverge, the gay friend who started me on this journey thinks I am just sexual and lucky enough to be able tolove and enjoy both . He doesn't feel or believe I am gay just sexual.

[M. Wolfe]

It is funny because I am still all new to this(recent bi and all), but my godson who came out as bi at the age of 15. He was a bit of a cross dresser when from 2-9 . His dad is cool with it but thinks that he is truly gay and is just sayin he is bi to make it easier for everyone to understand and accept him as he is right now. . I have heard from lesbian friends they would never knowingly date a bi woman because in the end they'll leave you for a man when the chance comes by.
But I diverge, the gay friend who started me on this journey thinks I am just sexual and lucky enough to be able tolove and enjoy both . He doesn't feel or believe I am gay just sexual.

Good for you, pal! I'm happy for you.

Yes it's sad how people, strait and gay tend to generalise bisexuals as all being the same.

Going on what you said, your godson sounds a bit of a pansy. If he is then it's likely most people will assume he's actually gay which is frustrating for everyone. Real bi people shouldn't have to prove their bisexuality to anyone but these assumptions almost forces one to (depending on how much one is influenced by pressure).

[retrowordsmith]

"So I hear you like it in the ass." is a quote that comes to mind. This was said to me by a cousin at a holiday gathering that set off a firestorm.

Thing of it is I say no, I wasn't in the mood for such a harsh approach to my sexuality. Truth of the matter I'm just not into penetration. (Male or Female) When I came out to Family and Friends I let then know my Bisexuality was at the root of my divorce but didn't explain I was purely into oral sex.

The net effect was the Homophobic element of my Family and Friends bore their fangs to "protect" me from such a vicious rumor.

I remained indifferent for a long a possible (Machiavelli cracks a smile :rolleyes:), this allowed me to find out where I really stood and with who.

[M. Wolfe]

"So I hear you like it in the ass." is a quote that comes to mind. This was said to me by a cousin at a holiday gathering that set off a firestorm.

Yes I heard this, too. I could only respond
".... Do you really wanna have this conversation?"

or

"I'll just say now, don't bother asking questions that you don't want to hear the answer to."

[FinkDoodle]

Yeah . . I've gotten a lot of negative comments myself. The one that hurt the most was from a bisexual woman I was dating who claimed that I was "not really a man" if I was bi . .

I also get the usual ignorant dialogue from gay men who insist that I'm "gay but in denial" and that there's "no such thing as a bisexual man."

What can I say ? I like both genders . . I'm into women far more than men but I don't limit myself anymore just to the female sex. I think that's a pretty good explanation of bisexuality, personally . .

It just gets old . . and there's really no reason for it . .

[Bi-Zarro]

Yeah . . I've gotten a lot of negative comments myself. The one that hurt the most was from a bisexual woman I was dating who claimed that I was "not really a man" if I was bi . . .

:eek: ?!?!?!?! :banghead: That makes NO sense at all. What a screwed up chick.

[hedonic]

M.Wolfe, E.O. Wilson is someone I look up to, so thanks for mentioning him. Hes the entomologist I should have been, but that's another story.
I say, "If you're dealing with feelings, You dont fuck around" its respectful. I basically hang with the straights and they all know of my Bi ways. I for one dont associate with judgemental people, so I have few mates, but we are best of mates. One of my mates says he's not bi, he's just being Andrew. And to me , it does get that simple as we are all individuals.
Retro, Im still looking for that hermaphrodite ( Been with 2 ) that can satisfy my oral needs simultaneously. Now to me, thats heaven. This web site rocks, cheers, tp

[hedonic]

And BTW, I do label myself as PANSEXUAL, It freaks and tweaks people out, Yep I even like the animals theyre thinking (not...but that's between us. LOL )

[M. Wolfe]

M.Wolfe,

Please, call me Wolfie - that's my affectionate nickname.


I basically hang with the straights and they all know of my Bi ways. I for one dont associate with judgemental people

Yea, I'd say I'm the same on this count. People who are judgemental and two-faced really hack me off.

[Lonewolf76]

Please, call me Wolfie - that's my affectionate nickname.

Cool! That's my nickname as well!!! From one wolfie to another - high five!!

[hedonic]

Wolfie, Youre wise for your years, good on ya matey. cheers tp

[M. Wolfe]

Cool! That's my nickname as well!!! From one wolfie to another - high five!!

Pound that shit! [local phrase for 2 people hitting fists knuckles to knuckles]