No e's please

[darkeyes]

Every day me rites bout a doz or so emails... sumtimes a lot more..from March..every email sent 2 peeps in this country an the EU will b held for govt access..an access by hundreds a otha bodies wich hav no biz lookin at owt me or thee rites wivout our say so... so me jus sayin this 2 yas all...spesh those ofya who do send me emails...from beginnin a March..don... me will not rite or respond 2 ne email so me advice 2 yas all is don send owt 2 ne of us who live in the UK or EU cos the govt a this country will hav access 2 every word yas rite 2 ne 1 who lives in the UK or EU..
They will also hav access 2 every text an this me finds much more diff cos me sends an recieves up 2 150 txts every day.. they r immediate an in place a kwik fone call...howeva sum r as ya wud expect quite long an detailed...now jus as ne fone call or email me makes is nun a the biz a the govt..neitha is me txts... or for that matta owt me sends through the post.. now me knos lotsa the stuff me sends is published on ere..but if me didn wannit on ere an inta the wider world me wud jus shurrup an say an do nowt..me txts, an me e's r my an the recipients biz... an the govt can sod off cos wot me sez in 'em is nunna ther biz..

Can liv wivout e's but will b a bugga.. wivout txts? jeez..that gonna b rite hard.. an am not 2 sure that shud b ne diff... is much more a me life than e's..an deprivin mesel a txtin so inconvenient... but if need b.. it mite havta b dun...me biz is me biz..an govt can sod off... an me lufflies..ur biz is ur biz... bad enuff they can trak me wen me fone is on..or me uses placcie cards... knowin wot me an thee is sayin 2 each otha is jus 1 step 2 far!!!

[allbimyself]

Fran,

Can you please provide links to information on this Big Brotheristic plan? I'd like to know more about how they plan to accomplish this.

[darkeyes]

Don sound so bad dus it allbi?? yea...rite...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7819230.stm

[darkeyes]

Guy at uni 2 day tried 2 tell me summat rite scary as a follow on 2 this..'is cuz used 2 work for a mobbie co.. BT 'e thinks.. 'cordin 2 'im 'is cuz sez mobbie calls r digitally recorded ther an kept for a wile.. ther is no suggestion that govt gets access 2 them but jus find this all so bloody scary.. me reckons e' is talkin through 'is bum or at least 'is cuz is.. but in this day an age is it poss? If they can hold txts..an hold e's...only 2 rite it is.. jus like its poss that at sum stage IM's cud b recorded an held by servers... an like ya PC or lappie can b accessed an controlled remotely... technology is ther for us neva 2 hav ne privacy... :(

Wonda wot brill wheeze Brussels or Westminster will think up next..jus hope me havn given em ideas... God me paranoia runnin riot 'ere.. :eek:

[Sarasvati]

Don't worry about it madam. Just open up and let it all hang out for every one to see. What you are hiding threatens only to entertain us so Big Brother will surely leave you alone. But Little Sister, mmm, that's another matter.

[elian]

I did notic about how much mor draconian th masurs have bcom ovr in urop latly..but I still think the UK would be a swll plac to try living.

..wait..you did say no e's, right?

[eddy10]

Looks to me like it is time for the people of the world to revolt an get a whole new set of less "elite" leaders.

[Sarasvati]

Looks to me like it is time for the people of the world to revolt an get a whole new set of less "elite" leaders.

Darkeyes is already revolting I think.

(Just a gentle joke)

[darkeyes]

...an hope eva 2 b so S me luffly..tee hee:bigrin:

[canuckotter]

Time to start encrypting all your email, perhaps?

[nothings5d]

Don sound so bad dus it allbi?? yea...rite...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7819230.stm

The link makes it sound like an e-mail and text equivalent to LUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LUD)'s, which wouldn't be all that bad. It says that the data will not include the content of the e-mails and texts. If it included the content it would be more like a wire tap and that would be a breach of rights. If it's just the who and when type data then it doesn't seem that bad.

[Trinity-Fl]

You're assuming that they weren't already snooping on your e-mails. :)

The Patriot Act here in the US has been used for many reasons not even related to the terrorist attacks. Historically, we have had the "knee jerk" reaction pf a threat by passing laws to overcome the threat. Then as reason returns, the laws are relaxed and rights restored. It may not happen this time. With the Cheney era as a new guide for secrecy, double speak and chicanery, we may find that the beaurocrats don't want to give up the power to snoop that they have been given.

I'm thankful that we haven't been attacked again. I assume that there are dedicated men and women working hard to protect us. But in those many thousands there will be bad apples and I think the percentage goes way up when you reach higher levels of administration. We can hope for the best and plan for the worst. I know that a lot of people know a lot more about me than I know about them. :)

Now that the bad guys know that this information is being kept they'll device another way of communication. And we will have lost another degree of privacy to the government.

[pottzie]

I love Darkeyes posts. But I get cross-eyed tying to make out what being said.
If the government, or anyone for that matter, makes software that can read what Darkeyes says on first glance, I'd be happy to know. I have to go over it twice to read it once. And that's if it's short and she's angry!
Darkeyes, you may be the reason that they developed it!

[Hephaestion]

[QUOTE=Trinity-Fl;119680]You're assuming that they weren't already snooping on your e-mails. :)

Wasn't there a chap who developed an encryption routine (PGP - pretty good provacy) which even the US govt agencies couldn't break and so his routine was banned from certainly non-USA sales and that was circa the early 1990s. So, someone, somewhere was into reading what was being tramsmitted then.

Nowadays, the electronic transaction places one firmly into (a) database(s). Along with CCTV, a person may not so much as break wind without it being recorded in some fashion.

The real worry is that this tracking is becoming more overt and there is less need to justify it. The following generic problems arise:

Who 'polices' the 'police' (not meant signify just the law enforcement agencies). If one argues that the democratic processes do then one should worry, for example, about the Bush election track record

How does one deal with rengade agencies and privateers who are not affected by or answerable to democratic processes.

How does one deal with misinterpretation and so wrongful persecution.

Will justified democratic challenge be affected and so destroy democracy in the process.

Will countries be taken to war on the wrong pretext or continue to guard a corrupt backside

On a more mundane level, how does one deal with a resurrected problem e.g. a closed bank account being resurrected or a corrected legal situation being destroyed - simply by a lag in information distribution or recovery from a previous and flawed archive.

How does one react when a double-glazing salesman refers to one's credit rating and the mention of previous county court summonses. Does one bring out the letters of apology from the previously zealous prosecutors or should one not rely on these and so clog up the courts with counter claims and awards.

Will one's medical mistakes ever be expunged or is one doomed for ever to be labelled by some pea-brain with a medical obsession.

The information age is inded becoming more problematic especially when one can purposely misinform or simply screw up and perpetuate the problem at the speed of light.

Darkeyes is right to be worried from her perspective. All else should examine their potential vulnerabilities

Borrowed from TV's Little Britain - (Cough) computer says no!

.

[allbimyself]

Let's clear up some misconceptions.

The rules on exporting of cryptographic software from the US were relaxed many years ago. Also, open source software exists (http://www.gnupg.org) that is not subject to US export laws and is every bit as effective as PGP. However, some countries prohibit the possession of such software. There is a link on that site to an audit of these laws so it should be easy for anyone to check if they would be doing something illegal in their country.

These encryption programs are NOT bullet proof, they can be broken with enough computing power and the larger the sample size the easier it becomes. However, the sample size can be reduced by generating and rotating encryption keys on a regular basis. Also, the amount of computing power it would take to crack (correct term, not "hack" as the media says) is cost and time prohibitive. The feds don't really care to read about your fictional love affairs enough to spend the resources required unless they have nearly enough evidence to convict you of whatever it is already.

As far as the EU law, I think it's stupid but not particularly dangerous. The type of information they are requiring providers to gather and store for a 1 year period is exactly the same kind of information gathered whenever you make a phone call (except local calls via landline in the US, not sure about other countries). That is, the number you called from, the date and time and the number you called. That's it. They are not requiring the archiving of the content of your email messages. And I can guarantee you that your typical ISP (not counting Gmail and Yahoo mail) will NOT archive that on their own. Besides legal issues, the storage costs are prohibitive. This can be seen by the fact that ISPs that would be required to archive these records for 1 year are eligible to receive grants to offset the costs of storing that information. Again, that information is not the message itself, just the email addresses involved, the IP address you connected from, the date and time.

BTW, if you use an email service like Gmail or Yahoo, you do realize that the entirety of the message is stored on their servers? Until such time as you delete it and empty it from your trash. So if the authorities wanted it, they could get that already. This is why those services have a cap on the total amount of storage you can use.

Also, as an added bonus, hard drive storage can cost anywhere from $0.02 - $1.00/GB/month for an ISP, depending on the amount of redundancy, the quality of equipment and the saturation (how much unused space they have). That should give you an idea how much data we're talking about them storing if they need financial help to meet the requirements.

The most likely scenario, should the PTB (Powers That Be) wish to actually peer into emails, they would do something akin to what Google is (or was, not sure if they stopped). Google is/was analyzing the content of emails. Not actually reading them. Emails are handled in a process called tokenizing. Basically, each word and phrase is quantified and the number of appearances of those tokens in emails over time is recorded. This is done to target advertising at people that use Gmail. If the word "widget" is found often in emails you send and receive then a manufacturer of widgets will be very interested in placing its advertisements in front of your eyes and will pay Google more to show you those ads.

The reason this would work for Big Brother and the PTB is that they can have the system key in on specific words that they have an interest in, such as cocaine or bomb or whatever. Enough hits and they may take an interest in you.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a card carrying member of the ACLU. Government intrusion into our privacy is a big concern to me. However, I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and actually understand what is proposed and what is possible before screaming that the sky is falling.

In effect, what the EU is looking for is the same power with email and text messaging that they already have with phone records. That is, to see who a "bad guy" has been communicating with, not the content of the communication. While that might seem bad enough, I would ask why you aren't screaming about the records of phone calls being available to law enforcement, intelligence, etc. as they have been for a long, long time.

[Hephaestion]

Thanks for the explanation albi.

I note that the one concept that seems to be missing from all of this is 'accountability to the people' especially in the event of misdeed by any 'big brother'

Misdirected e-persecution has already been recorded. Possibly the majority of the herd comforts itself that like death it always happens to somebody else.
.

[darkeyes]

...please accept me apologies me lufflies...wen me did a lil more diggin on this pikked up pretty kwik me wosn quite rite in me riginal post...teach me 2 b so impetuous..did mean 2 correct mesel earlier but fraid life bein wot it is its a lil chaotic an bizzy rite now... soz gain...:)

[allbimyself]

Thanks for the explanation albi.

I note that the one concept that seems to be missing from all of this is 'accountability to the people' especially in the event of misdeed by any 'big brother'

Misdirected e-persecution has already been recorded. Possibly the majority of the herd comforts itself that like death it always happens to somebody else.
.

I agree. Unfortunately, that's a much larger issue that needs to be addressed. In the US, the accountability is supposed to be handled by congressional oversight committees for the intelligence services and by the judiciary for law enforcement matters. I would like to see changes to improve that, but only have a few vague ideas and wouldn't be qualified to propose a detailed process.

As to your second paragraph that is human nature. Very few people it seems are willing to stand up for others when they don't themselves have a direct interest. This is something that needs to be drilled into the heads of everyone that lives in a more or less free society. That when the rights of the few are ignored, the rights of the many are also eroded. Eventually, the purposely malicious and the well meaning ignorant will remove the rights of all.

[**Peg**]

allbi: EXCELLENT response

elian: *shakes head*
you NEVER fail to make me smile:tongue:

pottzie: ROFL...very cute (btw: still got all ur boybits?)