GBLT in Sports [Archive]

bigirl_inwv

Oct 5, 2008, 3:03 PM

I have a presentation I have to give for my sport and society class on this topic. As always, I will utilize my lovely (and opinionated :tong:) family here to get my brain churning. It's a very vague kind of topic...not looking for anything specific...just anything you guys think/feel about how GBLT people are treated in sports. I've never really had an issue with it...so if any of you have had experiences you're willing to share or you've heard of...they'd be greatly appreciated!!

ALMOE

Oct 5, 2008, 8:20 PM

Some time ago, I believe there was a Transgendered golfer. She was M to F and there was a little stink about her playing with the women but I never heard how it played out.

12voltman59

Oct 5, 2008, 11:59 PM

It seems that as a rule----no matter the sport---people who are anything but purely straight are not welcomed with open arms or treated all that well by the powers within the respective sport, their fellow players, the owners, the media that covers said sport or the fans who follow those sports.

qchamp

Oct 6, 2008, 1:08 AM

I was a professional bowler. I know that had the other bowlers knew I was bi, I would have been made fun of and treated like the plague. There was one guy that everyone knew that was gay, and alot of the players back when he was out on tour had a big problem with it, and still mention it today. This guy hasnt been on tour in a very long time, almost 20 years now. So yeah, I will keep it to myself and those I trust. I am probably going to get my membership back next year, so I will be going on the raod in the southeast again.

But it really shouldnt matter as we all know, but it does.

Tim

darkeyes

Oct 6, 2008, 10:12 AM

Justin Fashanu played a short time for my team..Heart of Midlothian.. he wasnt a gr8 hero of mine particularly but he was a decent player. I was only about 13 when he came to Tynecastle and still remember the consternation when he was signed, and more so on match day when he made his home debut.. not by all, but by the bigotted machismic, I would argue now, majority of football fans of the day.. and the fun the opposition fans got from calling him things like "monkey poofter" and other not nice epithets.. racist and anti gay.. charming and disgusting.. many Hearts fans were little better so I am unable to excuse them either...

I was only 9 or 10 when he revealed to the world his sexuality and still can remember the dinner table discussion about his bravery and arguable stupidity to "come out". Even now... almost 20 years after the event and when our sexuality is much more readily accepted in the world, in professional male based sports it is hardly noticed although without doubt it will certainly exist..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fashanu

AFTER9

Oct 6, 2008, 10:33 AM

My thoughts is that alot of "us" take part in individual participation type sports.
Myself I hike,mt bike,swim,ski etc. etc etc.

darkeyes

Oct 6, 2008, 10:37 AM

.. now personal experience.. when I actively participated in sport..I can tell u about..not raunchy detail so sorry to disappoint... but at swimming practice some girls wouldnt share a shower with me because my sexuality was not "of the norm". I was 14 and while people tended just to say I was going through a phase, some just shied away.. when playing hockey a similar thing happened after matches or practice.. on the rare occasions I scored a goal (and it was a rare thing indeed) several teammates would not run over and congratulate me..some would even refuse to hit the ball to me... and if we played poorly some would put the blame fair and square on my shoulders...I got hit on only once while playing hockey..and that was a girl from an opposing school.. it was her hard luck I didnt fancy her..although maybe I should have taken the opportunity if just to cock a snoot at my so called "team mates". I have to be fair. They werent all evil cows.. one or two are among my best friends to this day.. and as I got a bit older it became a bit easier.. it was certainly a good way to pull the boys.. and sometimes put my critics noses out of joint..but I am and always have been more than about that..but it was a bit of a trial at times just tryin to be who I am..and participation in sport didnt give me a great write up...:(

jamieknyc

Oct 6, 2008, 12:39 PM

Several years ago, I was in Provincetwon, Massachusetts (for those who don't know, a big gay and lesbian vacation resort). I overheard a group of young athletic women who were from some college sports team talking about who was lesbian on various other teams, in a way that suggested that there was a whole network throughout women's college sports.

Michael623

Oct 6, 2008, 12:55 PM

darkeyes

Oct 6, 2008, 1:33 PM

Would you say it's more acceptable in womens sport versus mens? Seems to me it is, but I really have no idea.

...think so Jags..afta all..Billie Jean King, Martina Navratilova an the Maresmo girl from France did ok in tennis an ther wos no hassle bout them.. an othas an all through the sports history...in fact Martina wos big heroine ova 'ere an mong me mums generation ..still is... in otha sports wud think it prob the case an all cos like everythin bout sexuality...no 1 turns a hair relatively speakin bout women..guys?? Well diff ball game so 2 speak...

jamieknyc

Oct 6, 2008, 1:35 PM

Would you say it's more acceptable in womens sport versus mens? Seems to me it is, but I really have no idea.

You would have to ask the jocks, male and female.

Hephaestion

Oct 6, 2008, 6:16 PM

Perhaps this is not an aspect which is of interest but would it help your project if you were to look into the 'sexualty' of the contestants that originated from the eastern block of countries (communist regimes)

There was a relatively recent (months) TV documentary about these people and how the women especially were given testosterone (or physiological some precursor) to give them a performance advantage. One name comes to mind which is that of Tamara Press who was a shot putter in the 1960's. All of these people interviewed spoke of the devastation in their lives and relationships in being, effectively, forceably transgendered.

TaylorMade

Oct 7, 2008, 2:24 AM

American Football. . .it is my sport, it is my heart. . .so I'm gonna bring that to the table.

It's funny and ironic -- when I was in high school, I was always surprised at how the football players would slip into homoerotic play easily when among themselves. (I always wondered why straight guys did that.) One could take it one of two ways. . .either it was a form of social play, establishing an alternate family structure. . .or it really was like that.

I took the former interpretation and now, as a grown woman, it almost seems sadly logical - - playing at making the CB your boyfriend is just a game, everyone knows that. But when the CB really wants you like that - - it almost seems like a betrayal of trust in their mind.

In a game of close contact, like American Football,in addition to less than manly (which is funny, because... Spartans.) , being bisexual or gay seems to be percieved as a betrayal of trust.

Anyhow- - only Three NFL players have disclosed their sexuality. Esera Tualo, Dave Kopay, and Roy Simmons. The fourth, Jerry Smith , died of AIDS in 1986 w/o ever confirming he was gay, thus with conclusion that he was bisexual.

What should the NFL do? More than it does now... I personally think the change goes from the field up to the nosebleeds, rather than the nosebleeds down to the field. Sports Psychologists need to do their homework on bisexual and gay athletes, and make themselves safe and available, particularly at the High School and college level, in order to lay the foundations for a more comfortable locker room in the pros ,even if the player chooses not do disclose their sexuality to their fellow players.

Do I think we could have a gay or bi equivalent to Peyton Manning or Tom Brady out there? Yes. But we have to do our part first.

Coaches, who are already very available to "their boys", need to expand their understanding. Many of these men are father figures. You don't have to agree, just encourage. Keep them healthy, keep them encouraged. Stand up for them. Don't just make fair a buzz word, mean it.

We are losing athletes that could contribute their skills and knowledge. Personally, what I think would truly change the face of the game would be if a truly top flight player came into the league as an out bi or gay man. It's not fair, but in the culture of the NFL, at the end, it don't mean a thing unless you have that ring. (Dan Marino, anyone?)

It's okay to have decent-to-mediocre players in our ranks. . .but - -we had to have Doug Williams before we could get Donovan McNabb.

*Taylor*

darkeyes

Oct 7, 2008, 10:26 AM

Auntie Beeb asked all English Premier League managers 2 particpate in a documentary bout homosexuality in football.. 2 a man they told the Beeb 2 sod off... wonda wot that tells us???:rolleyes:

Dunno if they asked Scottish Premier League managers.. documentary on huddies wudda been more appropriate ther.. they hav nuff 2 say bout them...yea..an me an all!!!!!:bigrin:

curious44

Oct 7, 2008, 11:08 AM

I remember several years ago the LPGA had a tournament at a golf course near here. Like everyone else, I heard all the rumors that about it being a sport that attracted many lesbian fans. I can't vouch for the validity of the rumors but I do know that all weekend the local restaurants, bars and motels were full of women in small and large groups. Many were obviously and openly flaunting their lifestyle. Lesbian or otherwise I was surprised at the size of the fan base the LPGA has. All the motels were full and restaurant lines were everywhere.
A friend has a daughter that got a basketball scholarship to a state college. I remember her saying, "I'm gonna deck the first dyke bitch that tries to hit on me."
That was about 15 years ago. Today she and her female S.O. have been together for several years and have two kids, each bearing one through in vitro fertilization. Gramma loves the kids, Grandpa calls it "our unique situation". I don't know if she ever did "deck" anyone.

12voltman59

Oct 7, 2008, 12:02 PM

I guess I was more directing my comments to the big league men's professional sports----we do know of guys who once their careers were over---came out----but they could not have been openly out when they played.

I played football a bit back in school and it was sorta funny---you weren't supposed to look at other guys when in the showers--but it sure was funny how people sorta got put on the social rung thanks in part not only to team position--but the size of their weiners!!! Everyone knew who had the big ones or the little ones-----

darkeyes

Oct 7, 2008, 6:26 PM

... I was 14 and while people tended just to say I was going through a phase, some just shied away.. when playing hockey a similar thing happened after matches or practice.. on the rare occasions I scored a goal (and it was a rare thing indeed) several teammates would not run over and congratulate me..some would even refuse to hit the ball to me... and if we played poorly some would put the blame fair and square on my shoulders...I got hit on only once while playing hockey..and that was a girl from an opposing school.. :( Me best m8's partner is a bit of a snooty wench.. well not reely snooty..but she dus talk even plummier than Naggy an that sayin summat.. tee hee.. Ali went 2 a very posh, extremely well heeled all girls (sighhhhhhhh... green wiv envy..) private school (shockin..she shud b ashamed..).. she wos tellin me earlier she had quite the opposite botha.. she wos dead inta guys then but the hockey team wos dominated by lessies.. an ifya bootie didn fit wiv the girls in the team hockey wos not for u unless ya wer shite hot as a player..... she wos tellin me the teachers runnin the team wer both lessie.. makes a change me sposes from discrimination gainst peeps like us... no less appallin..

...an wot "sport" did she take up wile ther?? Well..she wos triff at chess an backgammon... dontcha jus h8 posh gals wiv brains??? O yea..she did say she made the netball team.. but she wos 18 by then an 'er interest in lads had begun 2 fade... is netball a sport?? :rolleyes:

TaylorMade

Oct 8, 2008, 12:37 AM

DiamondDog

Oct 8, 2008, 1:41 AM

I saw gay pro NBA basketball player John Amaechi one night at a mixed crowd queer bar.

He's out and I'm not into sports at all so I had no idea who he was at all and it was only until afterwards that my friend had told me about him, and how lots of people wanted to talk to him and he was corteous and cordial to them.

There's also the joke/truth about the women's LGPA being called the heh "Lesbian Golf Pro Association" and there was an olympic female golfer who played in Atlanta's summer Olympics who is an out lesbian.

I do know of women who are involved in college sports who are lesbian and some are out and some aren't.

I'm sure there are a lot of bi/gay NFL players but I'm sure that most are closeted.

FalconAngel

Oct 8, 2008, 1:40 PM

TaylorMade

Oct 8, 2008, 1:51 PM

I seem to recall an article either in Playboy, Penthouse or one of those other smaller sex magazines where they had an article on Bi/gay players in Pro sports here in the US. It was printed in the late 70's or early 80's, I think.

The biggest point that stuck out to me, in the article, is the fact that teams that knew about those Bi/gay players kept them on the team and kept it hushed up as much as possible, but treated it like a national security issue when the player was one of the better players on the team.

I think we are at the point in our social history that if a bi or gay player is exemplary and wishes to come out, he should be allowed to.

(Jeff Garcia, I'm looking at you. I don't care if your wife was the Playmate of the Epoch.)

*Taylor*

FalconAngel

Oct 8, 2008, 8:19 PM

I think we are at the point in our social history that if a bi or gay player is exemplary and wishes to come out, he should be allowed to.

(Jeff Garcia, I'm looking at you. I don't care if your wife was the Playmate of the Epoch.)

*Taylor*

I completely agree, but back when the article was written it was just a couple of years before the world knew about AIDS. In those days it was still unsafe for anyone of note to come out of the closet.

It's good to know that those days are coming to a close; albeit slowly.

darkeyes

Oct 9, 2008, 7:15 AM

I think we are at the point in our social history that if a bi or gay player is exemplary and wishes to come out, he should be allowed to.

(Jeff Garcia, I'm looking at you. I don't care if your wife was the Playmate of the Epoch.)

*Taylor*Only if they r exemplary?? Lotsa peeps in all walks a life r less than exemplary includin sports peeps... Gud bad or indifferent they shud b allowed that rite...:)

TaylorMade

Oct 9, 2008, 10:57 AM

Only if they r exemplary?? Lotsa peeps in all walks a life r less than exemplary includin sports peeps... Gud bad or indifferent they shud b allowed that rite...:)

Because professional sport (at least American Football) is built on achievement. No one goes into the pros aiming to be mediocre.

Would Jackie Robinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Robinson), Fritz Pollard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Pollard), or Ernie Davis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Davis) (The first is an American Baseball player, the latter two American Footballers) have made such an impact on their sport had they not been good players?

Would Jessie Owens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens) have shaken Hitler if he had come in second?

I submit they would not. Being the best would do two things. . .put to rest the stereotype of the bisexual or gay male as being less than male - -i.e. , less athletic. The second - -give the next generation something to aspire to. We don't want our kids to be mediocre. We want them to be the best.

Good is okay. . .but bringing forth your best silences the critics and pushes ourselves forward.

*Taylor*

darkeyes

Oct 9, 2008, 11:04 AM

Because professional sport (at least American Football) is built on achievement. No one goes into the pros aiming to be mediocre.

Would Jackie Robinson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Robinson), Fritz Pollard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Pollard), or Ernie Davis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Davis) (The first is an American Baseball player, the latter two American Footballers) have made such an impact on their sport had they not been good players?

Would Jessie Owens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens) have shaken Hitler if he had come in second?

I submit they would not. Being the best would do two things. . .put to rest the stereotype of the bisexual or gay male as being less than male - -i.e. , less athletic. The second - -give the next generation something to aspire to. We don't want our kids to be mediocre. We want them to be the best.

Good is okay. . .but bringing forth your best silences the critics and pushes ourselves forward.

*Taylor*Then mayb ya shudda used anotha word otha than exemplary..in ne case..woteva word ya use... it shudn make 1 jot a diff...

TaylorMade

Oct 9, 2008, 11:22 AM

Then mayb ya shudda used anotha word otha than exemplary..in ne case..woteva word ya use... it shudn make 1 jot a diff...

No, I fully intended what I said and stand behind my theory, especially as it applies to the NFL (which is where I am holding my argument in chief). Achievement silences critics and breaks barriers. A mediocre bisexual player would still have the doubts and critics surrounding him. One with a championship. . .not so much.

Even look at the criticism surrounding STRAIGHT players. . . Look up Eli Manning (American Footballer) and how people did not take him seriously until he took down the New England Patriots. Even look up Miami's own Dan Marino. He held almost every record in the books possible, but many refuse to consider him the best because he did not bring home a championship.

Like it or not, sports is a meritocracy. Possibly one of the last ones. And if we, as LBGT people, want a piece of the pie, we need to put in work and give it our best.

*Taylor*

darkeyes

Oct 9, 2008, 11:38 AM

No, I fully intended what I said and stand behind my theory, especially as it applies to the NFL (which is where I am holding my argument in chief). Achievement silences critics and breaks barriers. A mediocre bisexual player would still have the doubts and critics surrounding him. One with a championship. . .not so much.

Even look at the criticism surrounding STRAIGHT players. . . Look up Eli Manning (American Footballer) and how people did not take him seriously until he took down the New England Patriots. Even look up Miami's own Dan Marino. He held almost every record in the books possible, but many refuse to consider him the best because he did not bring home a championship.

Like it or not, sports is a meritocracy. Possibly one of the last ones. And if we, as LBGT people, want a piece of the pie, we need to put in work and give it our best.

*Taylor*Think its the word "exemplary" thats thrown me a lil Taylor.. means a lot moren jus bein triff at wotya dus...don disgree 2 much wiv at all wiv wotya sayin if at all.. but within sport..an only 1 me reely knows is propa football not that daft game u lot play ova ther (luffin dig).. ther r different levels... brill players an middlin players an players who we think r crap an all sortsa otha players..point me makin is it don matta if yas brill or crap..the "meritocracy" as u call it shudn matta a sod...every 1 howeva gud or bad in sport..pro semi pro amateur or jus fun luffin has the rite shud they chose 2 b open bout who an wot they r...it'll happen but not wivout a gud ole punch up wivin woteva sport ya cares 2 mention..

darkeyes

Oct 9, 2008, 12:24 PM

Would Jessie Owens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Owens) have shaken Hitler if he had come in second?

I submit they would not. Being the best would do two things. . .put to rest the stereotype of the bisexual or gay male as being less than male - -i.e. , less athletic. The second - -give the next generation something to aspire to. We don't want our kids to be mediocre. We want them to be the best.

Good is okay. . .but bringing forth your best silences the critics and pushes ourselves forward.

*Taylor*

Don think Hitler wos particularly shaken as much as peeps think.. e wos a llil peeved.. even pissed off.. but fact that Germany dominated the games a 1936 more than made up for ne pissed offedness e had ova Owens...

...second point ere...wan our kids 2 b the best human beins they can.. an b as best as they can at wot they decide 2 turn ther hand 2... but b the best best? Diff matta... wud b nice but is hardly important...silencin critics is summat no 1 shud give a sod bout..if we best as we can b..ther can b no justified criticism .. an if criticism can't b justifed or constructive...it is nuthin that means owt an serves no purpose except 2 hurt an humilate...

TaylorMade

Oct 10, 2008, 2:05 AM

Don think Hitler wos particularly shaken as much as peeps think.. e wos a llil peeved.. even pissed off.. but fact that Germany dominated the games a 1936 more than made up for ne pissed offedness e had ova Owens...

...second point ere...wan our kids 2 b the best human beins they can.. an b as best as they can at wot they decide 2 turn ther hand 2... but b the best best? Diff matta... wud b nice but is hardly important...silencin critics is summat no 1 shud give a sod bout..if we best as we can b..ther can b no justified criticism .. an if criticism can't b justifed or constructive...it is nuthin that means owt an serves no purpose except 2 hurt an humilate...

It still was a major coup that gave a good black eye to Hitler's theories of Aryan domination.

Your point is a general one - -not applicable to the narrow focus of sports, which is what this thread is about.

eh, it's cute, though.

*Taylor*

darkeyes

Oct 10, 2008, 7:21 AM

It still was a major coup that gave a good black eye to Hitler's theories of Aryan domination.

Your point is a general one - -not applicable to the narrow focus of sports, which is what this thread is about.

eh, it's cute, though.

*Taylor*Awww Taylor..... am cute.. even wen bein rite opinionated an pain in the bootie.. that don change...

.. yea.. black eye me can go long wiv.. it wos the gud pummellin the rest a the world got wich mos peeps forget..

An sport not parta the genral human condition??? sowwy... so if me stuck in ie fitba' sumwer that wudda been ok?? tee hee..

Cherokee_Mountaincat

Oct 11, 2008, 2:51 PM

I know this is redundant, but it shouldnt matter What their sexual preferences are as long as they are good at the game they play. I can understand a Quarterback's concern (I think they are called) who has a guy standing b'hind him going, "Hut1! Hut2! and holding his hands so close to doods balls, but that's where trust comes in and its a shame that homophobia has to over ride trust in this world.
Sad...
Cat (who loves the tight ends in football) LMAO:tongue::tongue:

johnnyeasy

Oct 12, 2008, 2:57 PM

frenchvikki

Oct 12, 2008, 3:25 PM

Just my two cents.....

Couple of years ago the coach of the Women's Basketball team at Penn State made some kind of comment about NO lesbians playing on her team.
She took a lot of heat for it, but she still has her job. I think her name is Renee Portland. I hope this helps your project.

In this country she would have to do it and keep quiet about it, for if she didnt she would be in contravention of discrimination laws and therefore open to prosecution and her continued employment would be under threat, the latter especially and more certainly if she was an employee of the crown or any other publicly funded or owned body such as an educational establishment, local authority or state corporation.