Solstice Celebrations?

[Skyclad Jewel]

I'm new here, so a hearty hello to everyone!

I am curious . . . does anyone do something special to celebrate the summer solstice?

I've always wanted to get a fun group together, paint our bodies and adorn ourselves with bangles and baubles and let the food, drink and fun flow while dancing around a bonfire. I just can't seem to get people interested and building a fire outdoors is a little risky now (and too hot) in the parched south.

[Aravanww]

Ok, that was seriously uncalled for, especially in a group that is supposed to be about acceptance.

As an ecclectic pagan I am insulted, as a member of this group I am outraged. :banghead:

To Skyclad Jewel, my family and I have been known to hold celebrations durring the various times of the year, but Samhain is our favorite for having a big party and enjoying to company of others for an evening of fun and food.
I would love sometime to find a solstice celebration to dance around the fire in nothing but the goddesses glory, but in Maine it is difficult to find a group to do that. :grouphug:

[jamieknyc]

I don't have any sympathy for paganism or Wicca, but that was seriously uncalled for.

You had better clean up your act here quickly, or you are going to be banned.

[Aravanww]

So my comment isn't what you wanted to hear.

I am correct though.

Deal with it, we all have our own opinions.

I personally don't like the cult mentality of Wicca/Paganism and how people claim that it's very old and ecclectic yet it's very modern from the 20th century/late 19th Century, and just a huge sham and it's nothing at all like old Paganism from Scandinavia, what's now the UK, and Germany.

Correct, it is not what I wanted to "hear"

You are not correct, you are partially correct. Yes there are those of the pagan "group" that are just as stuck in the "we are right all else is wrong" mentality, but to make such a generalized statement is what bothers me.

yes we do all have our own opinions.

and it is not your opinion that bothered me, I don't' really care if you like or dislike pagans/wiccans/catholics/protestants/jewish/etc.
My problem was with the fact that Jewel asked a simple question, looking for like minded individuals and without any provocation you attacked his right to do that. You jumped all over someone for what you perceived as a "bad label" You did exactly what this group has time and again shown is unacceptable. You labeled Jewel as "bad" for being something that you are not.
I will not continue this as it is completely off topic and offencive. I would ask that the moderators get rid of this thread, Ask Jewel to re-ask his question in a new thread and Ask that the replies be aimed at the question instead of aimed at the questioner.

[12voltman59]

Well Judequinn--you are certainly entitled to your opinoin---everyone has one like everyone has a certain body orifice as the saying goes. As far as pagan/wiccanism being full of it or whatever---it is no more so than is christianity or other faiths and it predates Christianity by a few thousand years or so.

As far as pagan/wiccans not having any love lost for Christians--well--it was not all that long ago that Christians were turning pagan/wiccans into crispy critters by roasting them on the spit---so I think they have every reason to not care much for Christians if they don't----as far as Skyclad was concerned--she did not say one damn thing negative about Christians or any other religious group---Skyclad was merely trying to find out if other pagan/wiccans were doing anything for a time they happen to think is special and did nothing to deserve your attacks--so put a sock in it please!!!

If you don't have much use for pagan/wiccanism--fine--you have spoken your mind on this subject on more than one occasion now, no need to do so any more.

To Skyclad--sorry for my negative vibe I laid down on here--but I am getting sick of the fact that no matter what the subject that gets posted on here anymore--some jerk has to go and rain on someone else's parade----I am sorry for that being the case--and I wish I were closer to ya--I would like to be able to do something like what you suggest---it seems that those I knew in my parts who did have all moved on either leaving the practice behind or moving on to new pastures.

I hope you find some people to help you celebrate your holiday.

[shameless agitator]

I'm actually going to a 3 day camp out for solstice that will be very much like what you described skyclad. I love being in a group of people who are comfortable with nudity & am really looking forward to dancing around the bon fire. I'd invite you, but I'm afraid it would be quite a trek for you.

[Papelucho]

Paganism/Wicca are a crock of shit and Pagans/Wicca practitioners can be just as judgemental and blindly subscribe to dogma just like the Christians that they don't like.

The summer solstice is an actual event, not a springboard to ignorance.

[Feast]

Just a perspective:

The true legacy of the ancient "pagans" is still very much alive in a branch of Christianity called catholicism. They have the goddess cult where the femal is way over more revered than Jesus himself, they have all kinds of saints for all kinds of situation, akin to spirits and faeries, and they celebrate every single "pagan" holly day but with different names and adjusted dates.

On a personal note: every religion is my religion.

[*pan*]

blessed be and wish we were closer because we love to dance around the camp fire but sorry to say living right on hyw us 161 it's kinda hard to go skyclad with out the neighbors taken notice lol.

and as for opinions i wont lower my self or spend any time going into it, all i have to say is no matter what your religion, i hope you find it as pleasurable and rewarding as we do ours.

summer soltice is the turning point, end and beginning so we thought it a good time in the middle of the ritual to renew our wedding vowels and include another into our life under the watchful eyes of the god and goddess and all the powers that be, to make a triad with a handfasting of three.;) it will be the official beginning although we been together for 3 years we have decided to make it permenant.:bibounce:
peace and blessings to all > pan/|\

[jollyrover]

They celebrate the Soltice in Sherman New York every Year

[wolfcamp]

I'm new here, so a hearty hello to everyone!

I am curious . . . does anyone do something special to celebrate the summer solstice?

I've always wanted to get a fun group together, paint our bodies and adorn ourselves with bangles and baubles and let the food, drink and fun flow while dancing around a bonfire. I just can't seem to get people interested and building a fire outdoors is a little risky now (and too hot) in the parched south.

This reminds me of my old hippy days. Wiccan/pagan never crossed my mind.

Lots of cultures have, or do, celebrate the solstice. Native Americans built observatories like the Medicine Wheel in the Big Horn Mountains, and the sophisticated structures at Chaco Canyon. They almost certainly had ceremonies and celebrations associated with the solstice event. The Chinese, the Egyptians, the Aztecs, and many others celebrated the solstice.

If you think about ancient people, the resolution of their time keeping was expressed in one year cycles, and they marked that time by the day that the sunrise reversed it's course on the eastern horizon. That was the day that marked the cycle of their year, and it fell in the season of their bounty. It gave them a point of reference for the cycles of their lives. The summer solstice was important because they could sit outside in the cool summer dawn to watch it happen, unlike in the winter when they were huddled inside by the fire trying to keep from freezing.

Today our timekeeping resolves down to a tiny fraction of a second and is recorded on super accurate atomic clocks. We glance at our wristwatches, or our cell phones so that we can step into work or a meeting on the stroke of the minute. There is no longer a sense of awe or ritual associated with the recycling of the year. We have almost lost our sense of the seasons. We can buy bananas and grapes in January. Who cares about the cycles of summer, except to go to the beach?

I think it would be a great thing to dance around a fire to celebrate the summer solstice. The root of the word "religion" is re-ligio; to re-connect, or connect again. What better way to reconnect than to celebrate the solstice?

Regards, Wolfcamp

[FalconAngel]

Paganism/Wicca are a crock of shit and Pagans/Wicca practitioners can be just as judgemental and blindly subscribe to dogma just like the Christians that they don't like.

My guess is that you don't know as many Pagan/Wiccans as we do.
I would also venture a guess that they are solitaries or eclectics, these people that you have met, many of whom are untrained and/or not properly instructed in the full scope of modern Pagan beliefs.
A book cannot answer all of the questions that pop up and there are a lot of crackpot authors out there that eclectics and solitaries pick up so these crackpot authors are taken them as gospel.
If there is no one who can guide them to the better authors and clearer understanding of what Wicca/Paganism is, then of course they will be messed up in their approach to Wicca/Paganism.
No less than Dominion Christians or Islamic extremists who follow hate-filled, power hungry leaders.

We follow a traditional path and we don't get judgmental (at least we make an effort not to). We have friends who are of a variety of traditions as well as a few solitaries and eclectics.

But for the exception of a few "fluffy bunny" Pagans, we don't associate with the kind that you are talking about. We find them to be destructive of the intentions and beliefs of Paganism.

To clarify; real Pagans accept that all paths are valid, no matter what path it is, and to judge another by the path that they are on is wrong.

As far as what we are doing for the Solstice, well, since I (Chris) am a Summer Solstice Baby, I am foregoing my birthday and writing a ritual for our coven to do on the Sabbat.

And for those of you who are solitary or eclectic and are looking for events near you, try joining Paganspace.net and look on www.witchvox.com to find people and events in your areas.

[FalconAngel]

If you've actually read my posts at all or studied anything about what's called Wicca/Paganism by people nowadays, you'll see that what people now like to call Wicca/Paganism is nothing at all like the Paganism/Druidic religions that people actually followed before Christianity was around/established.

The modern equivalents of "Paganism" and other religions are all pure modern day BS compared to pre-Christian Paganism (i.e. Hethanism, Druidic religions, etc.) and the two have nothing in common besides their names.

Some Wiccans claim to be part of the “old ways” and “ancient tradition,” their religion is new. Wicca is creative, imaginative, and entirely a 20th-century invention, with no connection to ancient paganism or the alleged “witches” of the witch-hunts. No cult of the “Goddess” played a significant role in Western culture between late antiquity and the mid-20th century. Wicca, in fact, originated about 1939 with an Englishman, Gerald Gardner, who constructed it from the fanciful works of the self-styled magician Aleister Crowley; the fake “ancient” document Aradia (1899); the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and other late-19th and early-20th century occult movements; and Margaret Murray’s The Witch-Cult in Western Europe (1921) and article “Witchcraft” in the 14th edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica (1929), which put forth in its most popular form her theory that the witches of western Europe were the lingering adherents of a once general pagan religion that had been displaced, though not completely, by Christianity. Gardner, backed by Murray, who wrote a laudatory introduction to his book Witchcraft Today (1954), fixed this erroneous notion of an ancient witch-cult somewhere in the public consciousness, and it has been nurtured there by Robert Graves’s The White Goddess (1948) and innumerable more recent quasi-fictional and fictional accounts.

See here for more info and how modern what's now called Paganism/Wicca is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Neopagan_movements

So you got your "facts" from wikipedia, huh? As we all know, wikipedia is, as often as not chock full of erroneous data and, quite often, outright lies.

So if that's your only source for your "proof" then you should do a bit more research.

What we call Wicca, or Paganism, has been practiced for tens of thousands of years: Mostly in secret since the Christian church tried so desperately to eradicate it for so many centuries.
It recieved a rebirth of sorts when Gerald Gardner wrote the (very boring to read) "Witchcraft Today" in the 50's. According to Gardner, his coven had been part of a lineage that spanned centuries. That doesn't sound too new to me.

However, it is true that we do not practice in the same way that had been practiced at the beginning. We don't sacrifice any living creatures for any reason. we may do something symbolic, depending on the tradition/particular type of Paganism, but blood rituals are right out.

Much of what is done in modern Paganism is symbolic for practical reasons. Unlike what some religions have done, we have seriously evolved to better fit the times that we live in. Any belief system that cannot/will not evolve will stagnate and eventually fall in on itself.

And like other religions, we have fakes and posers who claim themselves as part of it, yet do not follow it's ideology except when it's convenient.

But still, while Pagan believers have a valid beef with Christianity and it's history with us, it does not mean that we hate all Christians.

To be honest, it seems as if you have been either horribly misinformed by posers, or you are a troll.

Only you know which it is.

[FalconAngel]

The summer solstice is an actual event, not a springboard to ignorance.

That's right. It's between Beltain (spring equinox) and Lughnassah (the feast of Lugh)

For those that do not know; it is midsummer. The longest day of the year, which is significant because, after that, the days begin to get shorter as we move closer to the last harvest and winter, when the days get colder and shorter and winter approaches.

There must be a ton of books on it as it pertains to Paganism. I know that we have 1 or 2 ourselves.

[Bi_Druid]

I normally take a 'pilgrimage' to Glastonbury Tor every Solstice and just enjoy the good vibes of all the people there just having fun and celebrating life.

This year am planning to try and get up there with me bf and enjoy it together.

^notably ignores the tw*t remarks back towards the beginning of the post^

[FalconAngel]

I normally take a 'pilgrimage' to Glastonbury Tor every Solstice and just enjoy the good vibes of all the people there just having fun and celebrating life.

This year am planning to try and get up there with me bf and enjoy it together.

^notably ignores the tw*t remarks back towards the beginning of the post^

Lucky you. When I was stationed in England, I wanted to go to some of the places there, like Glastonbury and Stonehenge, but never had the time.

We are hoping that we can afford a trip to the UK some time in the future. Then we will go to all of those places.

[rissababynta]

When I saw the wikipedia link used as a reference, I had to chuckle...

That's like someone wanting to learn about christianity through google instead of going to a church...


Anyway, my hubby and I used celebrate every pagan holiday, but since having kids and weird living situations, we have not done as much as we would normally like to lately.

[12voltman59]

I don't know what JudeQuinn's deal is---he or she's post holds a resemeblence to other posts we have had no here---

I can say that of the pagan/wiccans I have known over the years---they were a very accepting and open bunch--and they were pretty much held a "live and let live" sort of attitude---more so than I have often experienced with many of those who call themselves "christian.'

With a not a smal number of christians I have dealt with in my life---they have all kinds of ways that other people are "wrong," 'bad" or otherwise don't measure up to some sort of standard they hold----I am not saying that all Christians are like this---but far too many are for my tastes.

They don't look for the ways to be inclusive of people--but instead find all the ways to be exclusive---

As far as Christianity is concerned and someone noted--many of the aspects of the Christian church in terms of saints, holidays, symbols, etc.--they appropriated from the "pagans" and "heathens."

Every group has its good and bad----good points and bad----because while we may think that many of them come from "god"---they were actually created by and run by humans which makes them very much imperfect creations.

[Atreus68]

As far as pagan/wiccans not having any love lost for Christians--well--it was not all that long ago that Christians were turning pagan/wiccans into crispy critters by roasting them on the spit---so I think they have every reason to not care much for Christians if they don't----

Well, during the times that you mention, sometimes called "The Burning Times," there WERE no Wiccans, since that is a relatively new religion. I also think that the number of witches/pagans "turned into crispy critters" is rather exaggerated.

Personally, I'd rather be locked in a room full of Baptists than a room full of Wiccans. All of the ones I've known have been far more intolerant than the most rigid fundamentalist Christians.

Be honest, Wiccans. Would you REALLY respect the beliefs of a dedicated Christian, or would you cluck your tongue and remark to yourself about how "deluded" and "closeminded" they are? BE HONEST!

Oh, and I'd welcome any excuse to dance around naked under the new moon. Just don't try to throw some pseudo-religious mumbo jumbo on it. ... That is, not unless you'll go with me to church to celebrate the Nativity of St. John the Baptist!

[FalconAngel]

Well, during the times that you mention, sometimes called "The Burning Times," there WERE no Wiccans, since that is a relatively new religion. I also think that the number of witches/pagans "turned into crispy critters" is rather exaggerated.

Personally, I'd rather be locked in a room full of Baptists than a room full of Wiccans. All of the ones I've known have been far more intolerant than the most rigid fundamentalist Christians.

Be honest, Wiccans. Would you REALLY respect the beliefs of a dedicated Christian, or would you cluck your tongue and remark to yourself about how "deluded" and "closeminded" they are? BE HONEST!

Oh, and I'd welcome any excuse to dance around naked under the new moon. Just don't try to throw some pseudo-religious mumbo jumbo on it. ... That is, not unless you'll go with me to church to celebrate the Nativity of St. John the Baptist!


I guess that depends on your view of what a "dedicated Christian" is. To some, that definition is the Jerry Falwells or Jerry Johnstons of the world who want Dominion Christian rule over the entire world, along with the destruction of ALL other religions that disagree with their views, while other Christians consider an attitude of acceptance and tolerance for others, without regard to their race or religion, to be dedicated Christians. And there are still others who are a series of variations in between.

What is your definition of "dedicated Christian"?

As far as the Pagans who live in the "bible belts" of the country, Georgia is right in the heart of the south eastern "bible belt" so maybe the Pagans up there are a bit more hostile than the ones down here in South Florida. At least as far as Christians are concerned.

We've known a few Pagans that are excessively hostile towards Christians as well, but they were more the "fluffy bunny" Pagans who even hate the traditional Pagan paths, claiming that we are too snooty or stuck up because we won't share oathbound information.
Of course, for their Beltain ritual, their High Priestess wore a "Paganized" version of the Pope's hat.

Flakes exist in every religion. History has shown that the monotheistic religions have had far more of their share than any other group. Have to wonder why that is.

And while we are more inclusive with other religions than some are to us, we still are not immune to having members who lean toward extremism, even if that extremism is nothing more than harboring a hatred for Christians.

But some of that also comes from converts. Paganism gets the vast majority of it's converts from Christianity. Some come to us from Eclectic spiritual paths, but the vast majority of converts seek us out from a background in Christian faith. Unlike some of the Christians out there, Pagans have no desire or need to go knocking on doors to find converts. They seek us out without us even advertising. That wouldn't happen if we were like the ones that you have described.

So please don't judge us by the Wiccans that you describe as having had the misfortune of meeting. They are in an area of the country where our religion is, more often than not, referred to as "devil Worshiping" by the uninformed or overzealous.

If you get to know more of us, you will find that the vast majority of us are not like that. we are very inclusive and are happy to answer any questions, as long as they do not breach oath bound information, and even help clear up any mis-information or disinformation that you may have.

[Karmacoma]

Falcon-OMG! You mean that Pagans who blindly follow a dead cult of dogma can actually read?

Idiots such as yourself should have NEVER been taught how to read and write! This gives them the idea that they're actually educated people and have valuable knowledge to tell to others!

I'm surprised that you can read Falcon since you think that doing a Pagan healing ceremony is actually really science/medicine, and that LMAO dolphins are somehow more intelligent than humans!

JQ is correct. What's actually called Wicca/Paganism are really just modern day religions and nothing more, even the one that you and your wife practise Falcon.

While Wikipedia isn't the best source for info it is a site that everyone can go to and the dates listed next to the various forms of Paganism are correct when it comes to when they were established in modern times.

Secondly, what's wrong with using the internet to learn about religions or new things?

People here ask questions about sex/their body/STDs that they should be asking their doctors or trained medical professionals instead of random people on the internet.

I'm not going to get started about how people here will ask random strangers things on the internet that they should be asking their partner/husband/wife or a professional instead of random people online.

The summer solstice is an actual event but it's nothing to get excited about and why you're sacrificing your birthday to do something for your coven is beyond me? Whatever happened to that birthday orgy you were supposed to have?

Wiccans/Pagans being tourists to Stonehenge and other sites in the UK is the cause of damage to these ancient monuments, as they used to let people walk freely through the monument at stonehenge until it got out of hand with fake Druids, and modern day Wiccans/Pagans overcrowding, littering the grounds, and even chipping off pieces of the giant monolithic stones at Stonehenge!

Listen, if you want to be an idiot and blindly follow what you pretend is a primitive religion and pretend that it actually has meaning and value when it doesn't at all, go right ahead and stay a fucking idiot and follow it.

As far as I'm concerned people who are Pagan/Wiccan are just in a huge consumerist and conformist religion that is just like the religion of Scientology.

I think it's funny that people are over exaggerating and flat out spreading lies/misinformation about the idea of Pagans/Wiccans being burned at the stake since it's a modern religion that wasn't around back then, and it's just like in the 1980s when queer scholars thought that the small amount of "witches" that were executed/burned were actually lesbians when in reality they were not lesbians at all and it was just wishful thinking on the part of the scholars.

This thread is funny since it shows how judgmental and ignorant Pagans/Wiccans are and how they don't actually want to hear the truth about their modern day religion and it just shows how little Wiccans/Pagans actually know about their own religion!

Before you think that I'm Christian, I'm not.

[FalconAngel]

Falcon-OMG! You mean that Pagans who blindly follow a dead cult of dogma can actually read?

Idiots such as yourself should have NEVER been taught how to read and write! This gives them the idea that they're actually educated people and have valuable knowledge to tell to others!

I'm surprised that you can read Falcon since you think that doing a Pagan healing ceremony is actually really science/medicine, and that LMAO dolphins are somehow more intelligent than humans!

JQ is correct. What's actually called Wicca/Paganism are really just modern day religions and nothing more, even the one that you and your wife practise Falcon.

While Wikipedia isn't the best source for info it is a site that everyone can go to and the dates listed next to the various forms of Paganism are correct when it comes to when they were established in modern times.

Secondly, what's wrong with using the internet to learn about religions or new things?

People here ask questions about sex/their body/STDs that they should be asking their doctors or trained medical professionals instead of random people on the internet.

I'm not going to get started about how people here will ask random strangers things on the internet that they should be asking their partner/husband/wife or a professional instead of random people online.

The summer solstice is an actual event but it's nothing to get excited about and why you're sacrificing your birthday to do something for your coven is beyond me? Whatever happened to that birthday orgy you were supposed to have?

Wiccans/Pagans being tourists to Stonehenge and other sites in the UK is the cause of damage to these ancient monuments, as they used to let people walk freely through the monument at stonehenge until it got out of hand with fake Druids, and modern day Wiccans/Pagans overcrowding, littering the grounds, and even chipping off pieces of the giant monolithic stones at Stonehenge!

Listen, if you want to be an idiot and blindly follow what you pretend is a primitive religion and pretend that it actually has meaning and value when it doesn't at all, go right ahead and stay a fucking idiot and follow it.

As far as I'm concerned people who are Pagan/Wiccan are just in a huge consumerist and conformist religion that is just like the religion of Scientology.

I think it's funny that people are over exaggerating and flat out spreading lies/misinformation about the idea of Pagans/Wiccans being burned at the stake since it's a modern religion that wasn't around back then, and it's just like in the 1980s when queer scholars thought that the small amount of "witches" that were executed/burned were actually lesbians when in reality they were not lesbians at all and it was just wishful thinking on the part of the scholars.

This thread is funny since it shows how judgmental and ignorant Pagans/Wiccans are and how they don't actually want to hear the truth about their modern day religion and it just shows how little Wiccans/Pagans actually know about their own religion!

Before you think that I'm Christian, I'm not.

You're right. You are not a Christian. But you do act like a troll.

What you have spouted is the biggest load of disinformation, hate-filled, loathesome and irresponsible batch of garbage that I have ever heard or seen.

So let's address the actual "points" that you are attempting to make. Without the troll-like remarks that you have made.

ONE: Pagans do not BLINDLY follow a dead dogma. Pagans are encouraged to read and study and to develop without blindly following what they are told.
We believe that all knowledge is learning, so we do not denounce other religions just because they are different. We accept that not every path is for everyone. The path that you follow, whether religious, or none at all is your path and your decision. We are not "fluffy" about reality. we understand all about accountability for one's actions. Something that you have yet to learn, based on your flaming post. We hold ourselves accountable for our actions; for good or ill.
We also do not "take it on faith". We do things that demonstrate themselves to work for us. If it doesn't work, we change it and find a way for it to work. For spell work it is visualization followed up by action, as opposed to praying for something to happen and then waiting and hoping that it works.

TWO: JQ referred to only one source. The one source that is notoriously flawed and, more often than not, inaccurate. Referencing through the web is not bad. We did not shoot that down. Only the one, well known inaccurate source that JQ used.
With the entire internet; every university and every museum available for research, anyone who depends entirely on Wikipedia, is either too lazy or just not interested in verifying their facts. Much like you have appeared to do.

THIRD: This is an open forum on this site. The subject of this particular thread had NOTHING to do about std's, sexuality or any of the other medical, sex or sexuality issues that you made mention.

So what kind of fool would bring that up unless they were trying to redirect the discussion because they have no argument and no way to back it up?

FOURTH: The Solstice is a major event. Look back throughout Human history. Stonehenge was built for it, the Inca built their cities and temples with the movement of the sun, moon and stars (particularly the solstices) in mind. There were temples built for it in other cultures as well. If you had studied a little archeology and history, you would know that. But you didn't, so you don't.

FIFTH: Stonehenge was getting damage from more that the small number of Pagans that visit the site. It has been the non-Pagan tourists that visit the site that do so much damage. Pagans have more sense than to destroy a major ritual site. You would know that if you really knew Pagans/Wiccans as well as you pretend to.

SIXTH: Hiding behind the anonymity of the internet so that you can troll, is far more "stupid" than any religion, primitive or not, could ever be.
We Pagans do not pretend our religion to be "primitive". We do know that it's roots are old and primitive. Far older than any of the "majority" religions are, but we know that what we practice has evolved from what it used to be and has changed with the times.

SEVENTH: Your opinion about Pagans being "in a huge consumerist and conformist religion that is just like the religion of Scientology.", well, what can I say?
We are people just like everyone else. We raise our families, hold down jobs, just like everyone else.
As far as the scientology reference, we do not hunt up converts, nor do we keep people around who wish to leave. That is not our way. No interventions to prevent conversion, no hunting them down or any of the other things that the movies and TV have disinformed you about Paganism and Pagan beliefs. And unlike Scientology, we do not charge for teaching. It is a religion, not a business.

EIGHTH: What we refer to as "the burning times" did happen. It is a well documented period in which the Catholic church gave silent sanction to people burning, hanging, stoning and other, more gruesome methods of execution, simply for being ACCUSED of witchcraft.
Like the Nazis, who say that the Holocaust never happened (when there are whole rooms of documentation), you chose, like the Nazis, to ignore the documented facts and claim that those events never happened.
Ever heard of the Maleus Malefacorum? It was a handbook for witch hunters: Supposedly supported by the church. It was later found to be a fraud, but the church did nothing to prevent it's use.

There are tons of information on the period from any number of well-respected historians, if you bother to do your homework, that have written books on the period. But, obviously, you would rather flame and troll than do your homework.
And if you don't want to buy any books, since you don't seem too interested in studying, you can always get the information from the history departments of Cambridge University, Cambridge England, or from the history departments of Harvard, Yale, University of Chicago, USC, UCLA, University of Paris, or any of a thousand other schools in the western world that has a history department.

So what if you are not Christian. The fact that, after all that flaming, you make specific mention that you are not Christian, but do not say what you are, is very telling of the honesty and integrity that you have failed to demonstrate.

One last point for you to take to heart; You will not make any friends by flaming people here and behaving like a troll. It will get you banned, though.

[Flounder1967]

I undrstand. I'm not a pian or wiccan but feel strongly to the soltices and more with mother natrue. I wish i could celerbrate in some type od way

[rissababynta]

Be honest, Wiccans. Would you REALLY respect the beliefs of a dedicated Christian, or would you cluck your tongue and remark to yourself about how "deluded" and "closeminded" they are? BE HONEST!



i have been a pagan for ten years and i have more respect for anyone who is truly dedicated to whatever path they have. The people i've known that have actually lived their lives as christianly as possible have not only impressed me (living your life as a true christian is hard yet doable), but have been the people that I have respected more than anyone else.


On a personal note...I think this whole thread has completely gone to hell by the way. This has gone from someone asking everyone what, if anything, they plan to do for the solstice to an e-bitch slapping controversial argument between insult and defense. Why can't everyone just mind everyone's business, stop critizing what each other believes, and learn to be happy with what we ourselves choose to believe. Then move on with life...I'm sure that in the end, everyone would be much happier...

[FalconAngel]

On a personal note...I think this whole thread has completely gone to hell by the way. This has gone from someone asking everyone what, if anything, they plan to do for the solstice to an e-bitch slapping controversial argument between insult and defense. Why can't everyone just mind everyone's business, stop critizing what each other believes, and learn to be happy with what we ourselves choose to believe. Then move on with life...I'm sure that in the end, everyone would be much happier...

We agree with you on that.

But unfortunately for some people, there doesn't seem to be enough angst in the world.

We could all do without the additional hostility and we could all do without having to defend our beliefs from trolls and other intolerant types.

[Karmacoma]

You're right. You are not a Christian. But you do act like a troll.

What you have spouted is the biggest load of disinformation, hate-filled, loathesome and irresponsible batch of garbage that I have ever heard or seen.

So let's address the actual "points" that you are attempting to make. Without the troll-like remarks that you have made.

ONE: Pagans do not BLINDLY follow a dead dogma. Pagans are encouraged to read and study and to develop without blindly following what they are told.
We believe that all knowledge is learning, so we do not denounce other religions just because they are different. We accept that not every path is for everyone. The path that you follow, whether religious, or none at all is your path and your decision. We are not "fluffy" about reality. we understand all about accountability for one's actions. Something that you have yet to learn, based on your flaming post. We hold ourselves accountable for our actions; for good or ill.
We also do not "take it on faith". We do things that demonstrate themselves to work for us. If it doesn't work, we change it and find a way for it to work. For spell work it is visualization followed up by action, as opposed to praying for something to happen and then waiting and hoping that it works.

TWO: JQ referred to only one source. The one source that is notoriously flawed and, more often than not, inaccurate. Referencing through the web is not bad. We did not shoot that down. Only the one, well known inaccurate source that JQ used.
With the entire internet; every university and every museum available for research, anyone who depends entirely on Wikipedia, is either too lazy or just not interested in verifying their facts. Much like you have appeared to do.

THIRD: This is an open forum on this site. The subject of this particular thread had NOTHING to do about std's, sexuality or any of the other medical, sex or sexuality issues that you made mention.

So what kind of fool would bring that up unless they were trying to redirect the discussion because they have no argument and no way to back it up?

FOURTH: The Solstice is a major event. Look back throughout Human history. Stonehenge was built for it, the Inca built their cities and temples with the movement of the sun, moon and stars (particularly the solstices) in mind. There were temples built for it in other cultures as well. If you had studied a little archeology and history, you would know that. But you didn't, so you don't.

FIFTH: Stonehenge was getting damage from more that the small number of Pagans that visit the site. It has been the non-Pagan tourists that visit the site that do so much damage. Pagans have more sense than to destroy a major ritual site. You would know that if you really knew Pagans/Wiccans as well as you pretend to.

SIXTH: Hiding behind the anonymity of the internet so that you can troll, is far more "stupid" than any religion, primitive or not, could ever be.
We Pagans do not pretend our religion to be "primitive". We do know that it's roots are old and primitive. Far older than any of the "majority" religions are, but we know that what we practice has evolved from what it used to be and has changed with the times.

SEVENTH: Your opinion about Pagans being "in a huge consumerist and conformist religion that is just like the religion of Scientology.", well, what can I say?
We are people just like everyone else. We raise our families, hold down jobs, just like everyone else.
As far as the scientology reference, we do not hunt up converts, nor do we keep people around who wish to leave. That is not our way. No interventions to prevent conversion, no hunting them down or any of the other things that the movies and TV have disinformed you about Paganism and Pagan beliefs. And unlike Scientology, we do not charge for teaching. It is a religion, not a business.

EIGHTH: What we refer to as "the burning times" did happen. It is a well documented period in which the Catholic church gave silent sanction to people burning, hanging, stoning and other, more gruesome methods of execution, simply for being ACCUSED of witchcraft.
Like the Nazis, who say that the Holocaust never happened (when there are whole rooms of documentation), you chose, like the Nazis, to ignore the documented facts and claim that those events never happened.
Ever heard of the Maleus Malefacorum? It was a handbook for witch hunters: Supposedly supported by the church. It was later found to be a fraud, but the church did nothing to prevent it's use.

There are tons of information on the period from any number of well-respected historians, if you bother to do your homework, that have written books on the period. But, obviously, you would rather flame and troll than do your homework.
And if you don't want to buy any books, since you don't seem too interested in studying, you can always get the information from the history departments of Cambridge University, Cambridge England, or from the history departments of Harvard, Yale, University of Chicago, USC, UCLA, University of Paris, or any of a thousand other schools in the western world that has a history department.

So what if you are not Christian. The fact that, after all that flaming, you make specific mention that you are not Christian, but do not say what you are, is very telling of the honesty and integrity that you have failed to demonstrate.

One last point for you to take to heart; You will not make any friends by flaming people here and behaving like a troll. It will get you banned, though.

Oh come on now! Be serious really, I'm not posting racist crap or anything like that. My post isn't simply the most hateful thing you've ever seen. :rolleyes:

Again your post is a bunch of crap and you don't know shit at all about your so called modern day religion.

For those that want to know, I'm not into religion at all yet I've studied a lot of them and a lot about them.

[FalconAngel]

Oh come on now! Be serious really, I'm not posting racist crap or anything like that. My post isn't simply the most hateful thing you've ever seen. :rolleyes:

Again your post is a bunch of crap and you don't know shit at all about your so called modern day religion.

For those that want to know, I'm not into religion at all yet I've studied a lot of them and a lot about them.

You are right. That was a bit of an exaggeration on my part. I have heard more hateful things in a lot of places, both in and out of this country. But yours is so full of anger and hatred that it is certainly very hateful. One need not be racist to be hateful. But you are certainly hateful of this religion and maybe others as well.
No difference.

Hate based on race, religion, nationality or any other difference is still hate.

As a matter of fact, I was noticing that almost every post that you have created, on almost every thread that you have chosen to post, was bashing or insulting people. Some, in a very subtle way, but still not a way to make friends.

Since your profile says that, amongst other things, you are on the site to make friends, you have chosen a piss poor way to do it. Or is your profile created just to hide the trollish intentions.

You DO NOT know anything about our religion, but then it is typical human behavior to attack that which one doesn't understand, so your ignorance is forgiven.

You have stated that a well documented historic event never happened. That is hate-speech as much as the fascists that deny the holocaust happened. Or that deny that the Crusades were anything but a war fought to grab land for the Pope.

You behave like a troll and if you were honest about it, you would realize that your trolling will get you banned. The last ones didn't last more than a few days, and if you are, in fact the same one that keeps getting on and getting banned, then this span will not last long either.
But then, if you are that same troll, you wouldn't be smart enough to figure that out.

If you are not that same troll, then you will learn. Coexist or get banned.

[Karmacoma]

You are right. That was a bit of an exaggeration on my part. I have heard more hateful things in a lot of places, both in and out of this country. But yours is so full of anger and hatred that it is certainly very hateful. One need not be racist to be hateful. But you are certainly hateful of this religion and maybe others as well.
No difference.

Hate based on race, religion, nationality or any other difference is still hate.

As a matter of fact, I was noticing that almost every post that you have created, on almost every thread that you have chosen to post, was bashing or insulting people. Some, in a very subtle way, but still not a way to make friends.

Since your profile says that, amongst other things, you are on the site to make friends, you have chosen a piss poor way to do it. Or is your profile created just to hide the trollish intentions.

You DO NOT know anything about our religion, but then it is typical human behavior to attack that which one doesn't understand, so your ignorance is forgiven.

You have stated that a well documented historic event never happened. That is hate-speech as much as the fascists that deny the holocaust happened. Or that deny that the Crusades were anything but a war fought to grab land for the Pope.

You behave like a troll and if you were honest about it, you would realize that your trolling will get you banned. The last ones didn't last more than a few days, and if you are, in fact the same one that keeps getting on and getting banned, then this span will not last long either.
But then, if you are that same troll, you wouldn't be smart enough to figure that out.

If you are not that same troll, then you will learn. Coexist or get banned.

Actually yes I do know a lot about Paganism/Wicca.

At least I don't lie to myself like you do and say that it's not a modern religion when it is.

Pagans/Wicca practitioners were not around in the times of the crusades or the Spanish inquisition.

That's because what's called Paganism/Wicca and widespread practiced by Pagans/Wiccans is a modern day religion, founded in the 20th Century, no matter how much you want to say that it's not a modern day religion it is.

[rissababynta]

actually, paganism was around first, long before christianity. WICCA...on the other hand...is modern. Which is why many people, including ourselves, are very adamant when saying that we are pagan, and not wiccan. Because there is a difference.

[Karmacoma]

actually, paganism was around first, long before christianity. WICCA...on the other hand...is modern. Which is why many people, including ourselves, are very adamant when saying that we are pagan, and not wiccan. Because there is a difference.

Actually no, you're wrong.

What's called "Paganism" has been changed and bastardized so much over hundreds of centuries that it's no longer the same thing that was once practised before Christianity in Europe/the UK/Scandinavia.

[Delilah]

I will be participating Solstice Celebrations!
Blessed Be everyone!

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u277/DelilahQ/Wicca/CORNERPENTACLE.gif

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u277/DelilahQ/Wicca/2eocuud.gif

[rissababynta]

Actually no, you're wrong.

What's called "Paganism" has been changed and bastardized so much over hundreds of centuries that it's no longer the same thing that was once practised before Christianity in Europe/the UK/Scandinavia.

Actually, you are just pretty darn dumb and stubbornly stuck in your ways (which seems more opinion than fact anyway...) and I really don't understand how you are worth anyone's time on this site anymore.



By the way everyone, I went to wikipedia also, and all the dumbasses on this thread must have been reading something else or decided to translate the information to make it what they wanted it to be...kinda funny :-)

[Delilah]

Oh don't be so hard on yourself. Take a deep breath. Now lift one leg up, pat your tummy, and rub your head. Life is somewhere in there. Blessed be!
:)


Actually I really have no life so I argue on the message boards for fun and have different screen names.