If 911 had not happened...

[Bluebiyou]

Saddam Hussein would still be in power.
That would be a good thing because Iran president I'm-a'jihadin' would be quiet and NOT developing nuclear program. USA would sell the tomahawks to Saddam and Saddam would bomb the s*** out of any nuke facilities in Iran.

The arabs would have a 'balance of power' and would be way too busy fighting/hating/killing each other to bother the civilized world.

Any other thoughts?

[darkeyes]

Only that sumtimes Blue babes..ya don haff write sum ole tosh!!! muah!:tong:

[florian_bi]

Iraq was not attacked because of 9.11. That was a very welcome excuse though. Maybe too welcome...

[ambi53mm]

We’d still be looking at Donald Rumsfeld arrogantly sucking away on a tic tac.. and given the still sensitive nature of the subject….I’ll leave it at that.

Ambi

[BronzeBobby]

Go outside and get some fresh air. You've been hypothesizing about these things way too much. We won't know the truth behind any of these issues for at least 15-20 years.



Saddam Hussein would still be in power.
That would be a good thing because Iran president I'm-a'jihadin' would be quiet and NOT developing nuclear program. USA would sell the tomahawks to Saddam and Saddam would bomb the s*** out of any nuke facilities in Iran.

The arabs would have a 'balance of power' and would be way too busy fighting/hating/killing each other to bother the civilized world.

Any other thoughts?

[Falke]

Go outside and get some fresh air. You've been hypothesizing about these things way too much. We won't know the truth behind any of these issues for at least 15-20 years.

Bobby has a point...

[12voltman59]

There is more to all of this that meets the eye and has been noted---it will take 30, 40, 50 years or more to know all of the reasons we went in there and for certain--whether it does turn out to have been a good or bad thing---like with most things----it will have both good and bad outcomes--let's just hope for those who follow us in this world----the good points come to outweigh the bad things---it just takes lots of time for all of these things to work out through the body of the snake.

Not long ago--on CSPAN Booknotes or BookTV---I heard a talk given by an author who just came out with a book about how the US role in putting in the Shah of Iran in power in Iran back in the 50s have a fairly direct relation to many of the things that have happened in that part of the world since---there are all sorts of "unforseen consequences" that can result from one action or decision.

That action of our CIA helping to put in the Shah into power and helping to prop him up for twenty years and such lead in part to the formations of groups that were opposed to his oppression and represssion that have direct links to groups like the Taliban and Al Qaeda and to obviously--his way of doing things lead directly to the Iranian Revolution and all the negative things that flowed from that.

The reason we wanted the Shah---the previous regime in Iran was leaning toward the Soviets and being the Cold War time--we weren't going to have the Soviets having an in in the heart of the oil lands that we so very much relied upon. The leader has also nationalized the oil fields that British oil companies "owned." The Shah was going to be a reliable ally and as long as he was anti-communist--we looked away as his security service tightened the reigns against the Iranian people--in fact according to the author---our CIA often took direct part in what they did.

For most of us----as to whether it was a good or bad thing that we booted Saddam from Iraq is a moot point---we won't be around to know----

I am afraid that I did not get the authors name or the name of the book because I only caught the last few minutes of that program and by that point--they weren't providing much information, the author was doing his summing up or maybe answering questions from the audience when I happened to tune in and I was doing other things at the time too so I was not paying too close attention but--I think that this link to the book below is the correct one:

http://www.amazon.com/All-Shahs-Men-American-Middle/dp/047018549X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1207668904&sr=1-1

[vittoria]

Leave it to Volty to provide links for his statements :):cool:

[12voltman59]

I try Vi---its my journalistic side---I just have to show that I don't just pull things out of thin air---now some of the authors of books I read or programs I see might have it wrong---but I don't just pull stuff out of my nether regions even though I am as filled with hot gas as is everyone else!!!!:bigrin::bigrin::bigrin::bigrin:

[wanderingrichard]

Not long ago--on CSPAN Booknotes or BookTV---I heard a talk given by an author who just came out with a book about how the US role in putting in the Shah of Iran in power in Iran back in the 50s have a fairly direct relation to many of the things that have happened in that part of the world since---there are all sorts of "unforseen consequences" that can result from one action or decision.

ain't that law a bitch!? this reminded my of something my father, a career military aviator, and my college history prof both said... we should have backed ho chi minh instead of coddling the french when he came to us for help.

gotta face facts, history is constantly showing that our flawed foreign policy, from almost the beginning of our nationhood, has led us into mess after mess.

[bisexualinsocal]

We went into Iraq so the west would have influence in that dinosaur time capsule called "The Middle East". Stuck in the 2nd century, violent and soon to be nuclear armed. Iraq borders on 6 arab nations and Saddam Hussein was an isolated tyrant. He was the easiest target militarily and politically.

[the mage]

If it hadn't worked as they'd planned they'd have tried again.
Their war is over and done ..They already won.


The real question is...Who is They?
Your enemies are utterly invisible.
They are the wealth mongers, stealing from you every day...

[Bluebiyou]

Good point, Mage.
You know Karl Marx made some astute observations about society in general (granted at such a dismal time as the 'industrial revolution') as expressed in his communist manifesto.
Likewise Ted Kaczynski made very astute observations about society and technology in his 'unabomber manifesto'.
Both had some rather radical ideas about 'solutions' to these social problems and inequities.
Marx's 'communism' never came to be in the two largest 'communist' countries. They both stalled in the socialist phase.
Kaczynski's 'solution' is impractical and (I'd say 99.9%) destined for failure.
But it's interesting to note that most countries have been heading for a while to some sort of socialist/democracy/capitalist balance. The USA, Canada, Europe, are becoming more socialist. While the socialist countries European eastern bloc, Russia fragments, and China are becoming more capitalist in order to survive.

The middle east is such a mess that only ruthless facist (although religious based facism - vice political facism) groups/clans/dictators survive.
Africa... lord, almost as much of a mess as the middle east, just not as organized.
Just my :2cents: