Slightly political thread...avoid at all costs

[bigirl_inwv]

Courtesy of an extremely intelligent gentleman in my husbands fraternity...I have this little gem of information I thought some of you here might find interesting/intriguing/ironic/funny/or completely stupid and irrelevant. Did I cover all bases there?


As we all know...Mr. Sir President Bush asked for 200 billion dollars to fund the war in Iraq.


Imagine you're standing on a street corner, tossing out money at the rate of $100 every second. Divide 200 billion by by 100....Thats the total number of seconds it would take to give away that much money. Divide that by 60 to get the number of minutes. Divide that by 60 to get the number of hours. Divide that by 24 to get the number of days. Divide that by 365 to get the number of years. It should show about 63.4.

Thats to say it would take over 63 YEARS to give away that much money at $100 per second. Thats SIX DECADES.

Are we Americans honestly comfortable with this? Can we not find better uses for this money? I can think of at least 6 kids off the top of my head who don't have insurance...and many more adults. I can think of at least 4 people who go to work everyday and bust their asses, yet come home to very little food and shitty living environments. I can think of at least 3 people that should have graduated with me, but had to drop out of school to help support their families.

I don't know much about politics...but I do know that I'm not comfortable with those numbers. I support the troops whole heartedly. By all means, send them into battle prepared and protected. It's the pointless battle that I don't support. But thats just my own :2cents:

Just thought some of you might enjoy that breakdown. I think its a perspective that many of us don't take the time to think about.

[gfofbiguy]

I just know I work my a$$ off and cannot afford to buy my own health insurance - and I own my own business/work from home in the MEDICAL COMMUNITY. I just hope and pray I don't get ill or have any type of accident that my car insurance can't cover...(like when I had a kidney infection a couple of years ago and T/G had insurance at that time - and had to go to the emergency room twice). :eek:

[FalconAngel]

I am a Veteran and I am also opposed to this senseless war. I know what it's like to be sent into the field with substandard equipment and mediocre training due to cutbacks, but this overspending is unreal.

Emperor Bush sent this country into a financial downward spiral and thinks that spending more money and giving tax breaks to the rich will solve the problems. History, which he is blissfully ignorant of, has proven him wrong.

Unfortunately, there are few options to his policies, even in the coming election.

[shameless agitator]

I like that breakdown. It's a good way of putting it into perspective. I think I'll put that into an email & send it to all the hawks/bushies I know

[12voltman59]

I read a column today about the failures of the Bush presidency and just one alone from the traditional Republican/Conservative point of view makes him a failed president---but there are several others too.

When Geo. W. Bush came into office--he inherited a nice comfortable budget surplus --the first this nation had in a long time--and I don't think it was somehow the residual effects of the things his dad had done before Bill Clinton took office---Clinton had eight years in office and anything done by Bush, Sr. was already long gone and he only had one term for Christ sakes at any rate--not really enough time to have all that much of an affect on things--- reality once again being contrary to rightwing nut spinmeistering.

Now as Bush leaves office---he has a huge, record setting deficit and the dollar is vanishing in value such that the rest of the world very likely is going move to some other currency as the global standard instead of the dollar, petroleum/gasoline prices are at an all time high, while the actual "war" part of Iraq and Afghanistan was successful---the "peace" part was a total disaster by any objective standard; the standing of the United States both among our allies and enemies alike has never been so low--I could go on--

So much for all of the things a Republican president is supposed to be good at--like I said--by the measures of traditional Republican standards---George W. Bush is one big huge failure!!!! Forget the things like trashing/thrashing of the Constitution with his move to the "unitary presidency," suspension of Habeaus Corpus and the like...those things are probably all Ok to the Republicans though.

Imagine if a Democratic president had so totally fucked things up--the Republicans would be, rightfully and correctly, totally apoleptic at the state of affairs--but with it being a Repuglican prez---we have a cadre of people who think things are just hunky dory and they have candidates who want do more of the same sorts of policies as Bush should one of them become prez in '09---or worse if such a thing is possible----hell--might as well shut this country down with some of the stupid shit they want to do--this country is toast if they get in and perpetuate the things that have been done these past eight years---

I am really surprised that the BushCos are not arguing that our pending recession, the tumbling into oblivion dollar, super high oil prices and all of that shit are not somehow a result of the things Clinton did in office!!! I mean--everything that ever happened bad in history--at least from the repug point of view---is because of Bill and Hillary Clinton--right??????? Ann Coulter has said as much a number of times!!!!

Bigirl's post sorta reminds of the days when they used to have the "deficit counter" which told how much our government was spending second by second and how fast the debt and deficits were increasing.

It is something--the Dems finally "got religion" back in the 1990s and did cut federal spending, balanced the budget and got rather well disciplined in terms of financial expenditures---Bush got into office and mucked all of that and we had deficits and more debt----but then the BushCos--said "ohhh--it's okay if we run up these things and don't balance the budget now!!"

So much for conservative/Republican "fiscal responsibilty"--that they abandoned one of their long held tenets just to be in power shows the moral bankruptcy of the modern "conservative movement."

It all became about "conservatives" getting and holding on to the levers of power at all costs---"the end justifies the means!!"

It is time for a shift to the Dems again--they will of course correct things for a time--then they will get greedy in terms of money and power and do their own fuck ups yet again-- but for now---the Republicans have really flumoxed things up good this time!!! Hopefully not so bad that it can't be fixed!!!

[bisexualinsocal]

Preserving modern civilization is worth it.

[alaskacouple]

-- but for now---the Republicans have really flumoxed things up good this time!!! Hopefully not so bad that it can't be fixed!!!

That's a big 'hopefully'...in over half a century of life, I have never seen the likes of the situation we now face as a nation... hopefully...hopefully...hopefully...it's not too far gone...

[alaskacouple]

Just thought some of you might enjoy that breakdown. I think its a perspective that many of us don't take the time to think about.

That was good! But that was just counting the extra 'off budget' appropriation for the war I think - can you do the math on the 3 Trillion dollar overall budget?

[vittoria]

I suppose "they" arent banking on our math skills.


V

[vittoria]

Preserving modern civilization is worth it.

Modern civilization? Thats a broad spectrum, considering that this 3 trillion is allegedly for US citizens... not the whole planet... The U.S. isnt all that consists of what one calls "modern civilization"...

[vittoria]

That was good! But that was just counting the extra 'off budget' appropriation for the war I think - can you do the math on the 3 Trillion dollar overall budget?


How many zeros are in a trillion? :rolleyes:

And here I am wondering who the "tax and spend" party was...
tsk tsk! :cool:


V

[florian_bi]

Very well spoken Laken!

Living in Germany and being really fed up with the policies of neo-con America as well as German politicians and corporations following this course, I enjoyed reading your post and the comments here.

It's really delightful to experience that many Americans are thoughtful and nice persons, something I have discovered in lots of personal contacts as well.

Peace,

Florian

[nothings5d]

Emperor Bush sent this country into a financial downward spiral and thinks that spending more money and giving tax breaks to the rich will solve the problems. History, which he is blissfully ignorant of, has proven him wrong.

Well, though it's often misquoted, everyone on here should know the George Santayana quote "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Bush is the perfect example.

[wolfcamp]

How many zeros are in a trillion? :rolleyes:

V

1 million = 1,000,000

1 billion = 1,000,000,000

1 trillion = 1,000,000,000,000

1 brazilian = http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/images/ritagg.jpg

I always try to help. :)

[alaskacouple]

Ummm, I think I'll take my tax rebate in the 'brazilian' currency

Very witty wolfcamp!

[shameless agitator]

Ummm, I think I'll take my tax rebate in the 'brazilian' currency

Very witty wolfcamp!You and me both. Yummy :bigrin:

[bisexualinsocal]

Modern civilization? Thats a broad spectrum, considering that this 3 trillion is allegedly for US citizens... not the whole planet... The U.S. isnt all that consists of what one calls "modern civilization"...

But America sets the tone for world culture, technology and civilization, so in that sense, we are charged with the responsibility to preserve it.

[vittoria]

But America sets the tone for world culture, technology and civilization, so in that sense, we are charged with the responsibility to preserve it.



Each one to their own average :)

People need to be responsible for themselves. That's what happens when we are adults--at least that's what every good parent teaches their child. "Can't hold your hand all your life!" :):cool:




LL&P,

V

[the mage]

Preserving modern civilization is worth it.


LMAO so hard I spit coffee..

SAVED it??? hehehehehe...the guys inbred hyperwealthy Saudi brethren in oil have utterly destroyed your economy and with it your future.

Take a simple look at your "war'.....
Your enemy .. Bin Laden, with his attack on 911 stated to the world that his objective was to destroy America's economy.

I'm sorry to tell you he and his hidden allies have already won the war.

America is forever altered. Freedom is lost to you all already. Your economy is utterly bankrupt, all financial indicators show it, an announcement is not needed.
Your wealthy citizens have already bailed out with land purchases elsewhere. Your real inflation is massively larger that you are being told.
(product shrinkage is standard unnoticed, unaccounted practice)

Your politicians are a class apart from you, spending a Billion to get elected by other wealthy people.
The corporations, citizens in their own right are your international representatives, not your politicians. The leaders of those invaders are getting wealthier by the second, while you at home go jobless.
There is no provision for the coming ecological disaster. that will be the end of our society. Yes, its mine too, we Canuks are tied to you at the waist.

When gasoline is 4 bucks a gallon and it will be, make no mistake, and it will go higher, your food become untransportable... The average distance traveled by the food YOU ALL EAT is 2000 miles.

If they started building a wall now, the U.S. just might be able to save New York city from the ocean, but its not on the radar for any one yet except the computer models the ecologists already have. Where are the people going to go? How about the population of Florida?
The future is gloomy.
I'm sorry, its pessimistic but its not paranoia. this shit is really really happening already and yes its far worse that you've been told.

[orallybi4cpl]

LMAO so hard I spit coffee..

SAVED it??? hehehehehe...the guys inbred hyperwealthy Saudi brethren in oil have utterly destroyed your economy and with it your future.

Take a simple look at your "war'.....
Your enemy .. Bin Laden, with his attack on 911 stated to the world that his objective was to destroy America's economy.

I'm sorry to tell you he and his hidden allies have already won the war.

America is forever altered. Freedom is lost to you all already. Your economy is utterly bankrupt, all financial indicators show it, an announcement is not needed.
Your wealthy citizens have already bailed out with land purchases elsewhere. Your real inflation is massively larger that you are being told.
(product shrinkage is standard unnoticed, unaccounted practice)

Your politicians are a class apart from you, spending a Billion to get elected by other wealthy people.
The corporations, citizens in their own right are your international representatives, not your politicians. The leaders of those invaders are getting wealthier by the second, while you at home go jobless.
There is no provision for the coming ecological disaster. that will be the end of our society. Yes, its mine too, we Canuks are tied to you at the waist.

When gasoline is 4 bucks a gallon and it will be, make no mistake, and it will go higher, your food become untransportable... The average distance traveled by the food YOU ALL EAT is 2000 miles.

If they started building a wall now, the U.S. just might be able to save New York city from the ocean, but its not on the radar for any one yet except the computer models the ecologists already have. Where are the people going to go? How about the population of Florida?
The future is gloomy.
I'm sorry, its pessimistic but its not paranoia. this shit is really really happening already and yes its far worse that you've been told.

and all you have to do to get AMERICA BACK is vote for Hillary Clinton...

it took a Clinton to clean up after the 1st bush and it will take a Clinton to clean up after the 2nd bush too.

When Bill Clinton lied, nobody died....

Bush lied to us all.. and he's FUCKING the whole country

oh and don't forget the VP he's the one who is the BRAINS
behind the stupid shit from Texas

When will we learn?

p.s. Obama is just a black bush ... can't you already
see the arogance? McCain for another 100 years
in Iraq? yeah right.

Get out of Iraq and stop the tax cuts for jobs being
lost overseas...

Listen to all that Hillary has to say.. and you will
understand what needs to be done to bring back
America.

[curious married m]

1 million = 1,000,000

1 billion = 1,000,000,000

1 trillion = 1,000,000,000,000

1 brazilian = http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/images/ritagg.jpg

I always try to help. :)


I vote for the 1 Brazilian. LOL CMM

[nothings5d]

That was good! But that was just counting the extra 'off budget' appropriation for the war I think - can you do the math on the 3 Trillion dollar overall budget?

$3.1 Trillion in a year = $98235.76 per second.

or in bigirl's terms shelling out $100 per second it would take 982.36 years.

[vittoria]

:eek:

[vittoria]

1 million = 1,000,000

1 billion = 1,000,000,000

1 trillion = 1,000,000,000,000

1 brazilian = http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/images/ritagg.jpg

I always try to help. :)


what's her number ???;)

[aisuhi]

I didnt read All the replies.

As it stands In my opinion, We dont really have anyone to vote for. The Democrats (Jack asses As I call them look at their symbol) are to busy being children. I have not seen a Decent portrayal of them yet. The Republicans (Fat asses as I call them see above) have the prioities wrong.

All that money should be spent helping ourselves. How can we help others if we cant help ourselves. we have lost track of who we are. To quote new song from My Favorite artist, John Fogerty, Its called Gun Slinger. Thats what we need in office right now. Clean up this mess made by us.
I was taught to worry about myself before I could worry about others. This is true. I dont have the problems some do because of it. Then I worry about how to help those who ask me for it. But I dont help at the expense of my family. Thats where our Government has taken us. Help out every one else at the expense of the Ameican People (Family).

Then read the post by DogWood.

I will stop Or I can keep going.

C&Y

[alaskacouple]

$3.1 Trillion in a year = $98235.76 per second.

or in bigirl's terms shelling out $100 per second it would take 982.36 years.

Dayum!

[bisexualinsocal]

Each one to their own average :)

People need to be responsible for themselves. That's what happens when we are adults--at least that's what every good parent teaches their child. "Can't hold your hand all your life!" :):cool:




LL&P,

V


We won't be holding hands for long. Now that American victory in Iraq is secure, we'll send that ship sailing for the new waters of Arab Republic Democracy. We hand held with Japan and brought them out of the third world. South Korea too. Iraq is next on the horizon and soon the saviors of mankind, Capitalism and Republic Democracy, will reach the cradle of civilization and spread through the middle east.

[12voltman59]

what's her number ???;)


She could help me do some paintings anyday!!!!

[12voltman59]

For those of my fellow radical, traitorious, treasonous liberals---

here is a great blog that someone did on Huffington Post.com:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-diamond/can-american-democracy-re_b_86465.html

[gfofbiguy]

For those of my fellow radical, traitorious, treasonous liberals---

here is a great blog that someone did on Huffington Post.com:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-diamond/can-american-democracy-re_b_86465.html

Damn, now I'm traitorious AND treasonous? Oh well, I've been called worse...

[shameless agitator]

Great post Volty

[12voltman59]

Damn, now I'm traitorious AND treasonous? Oh well, I've been called worse...


That is what Ann Coulter says about us--that skanky b*+@# had a best selling book on that whole subject!!!!

http://www.tower.com/details/details.cfm?wapi=100239223

[gfofbiguy]

That is what Ann Coulter says about us--that skanky b*+@# had a best selling book on that whole subject!!!!

http://www.tower.com/details/details.cfm?wapi=100239223

Dammit, now I started yelling at the computer screen again....dumb b#tch! ARRRRGH!

[paukenplayer]

We won't be holding hands for long. Now that American victory in Iraq is secure, we'll send that ship sailing for the new waters of Arab Republic Democracy. We hand held with Japan and brought them out of the third world. South Korea too. Iraq is next on the horizon and soon the saviors of mankind, Capitalism and Republic Democracy, will reach the cradle of civilization and spread through the middle east.

Well, looks like we are in the minority here...I agree with you. However, it seems that most posting on this site have bought into the extreme Left's "Bush lied" tripe.

Problem is, We currently have no-one worthy of our vote for POTUS from either party. And, if one of the socialists posing as a Democratic candidate actually wins, then I fear we will be in a far worse predicament than we are now.

As Benjamin Franklin said: "Those who would give up Liberty for security deserve neither Liberty OR security!"

[shameless agitator]

As Benjamin Franklin said: "Those who would give up Liberty for security deserve neither Liberty OR security!"I would say that applies more to the current regime's policies more than anything. Can we all say Gitmo??

[darkeyes]

Well, looks like we are in the minority here...I agree with you. However, it seems that most posting on this site have bought into the extreme Left's "Bush lied" tripe.

Problem is, We currently have no-one worthy of our vote for POTUS from either party. And, if one of the socialists posing as a Democratic candidate actually wins, then I fear we will be in a far worse predicament than we are now.

As Benjamin Franklin said: "Those who would give up Liberty for security deserve neither Liberty OR security!"U reely a congenital idiot or jus kiddin us on???

[nothings5d]

We won't be holding hands for long. Now that American victory in Iraq is secure...

American victory in Iraq is as secure as an oil tanker tied to the dock with a piece of yarn.


Problem is, We currently have no-one worthy of our vote for POTUS from either party.

No candidate from EITHER party? There are more than two parties you know. You could vote for one of the other candidates.


And, if one of the socialists posing as a Democratic candidate actually wins, then I fear we will be in a far worse predicament than we are now.

Socialism, well done socialism that is, is actually a very good thing. There are some things done under the guise of socialism that are bad, but most of them aren't actually socialist if you examine them properly.



Well, looks like we are in the minority here...I agree with you. However, it seems that most posting on this site have bought into the extreme Left's "Bush lied" tripe.

Bush did lie, he knew there were no WMD's in Iraq, but kept saying there were anyway. Notice that I didn't say "had reason to believe there were no...", no, he KNEW. CIA agents had reported in, Bush was informed of their findings, and ignored it. To quote Stephen Colbert "The greatest thing about this man is he's steady. You know where he stands. He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change; this man's beliefs never will."

[vittoria]

We won't be holding hands for long. Now that American victory in Iraq is secure, we'll send that ship sailing for the new waters of Arab Republic Democracy. We hand held with Japan and brought them out of the third world. South Korea too. Iraq is next on the horizon and soon the saviors of mankind, Capitalism and Republic Democracy, will reach the cradle of civilization and spread through the middle east.

http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showpost.php?p=94408&postcount=42

[vittoria]

American victory in Iraq is as secure as an oil tanker tied to the dock with a piece of yarn.



No candidate from EITHER party? There are more than two parties you know. You could vote for one of the other candidates.



Socialism, well done socialism that is, is actually a very good thing. There are some things done under the guise of socialism that are bad, but most of them aren't actually socialist if you examine them properly.




Bush did lie, he knew there were no WMD's in Iraq, but kept saying there were anyway. Notice that I didn't say "had reason to believe there were no...", no, he KNEW. CIA agents had reported in, Bush was informed of their findings, and ignored it. To quote Stephen Colbert "The greatest thing about this man is he's steady. You know where he stands. He believes the same thing Wednesday that he believed on Monday, no matter what happened Tuesday. Events can change; this man's beliefs never will."


For all of you who arent familiar with that quote from the man himself, Stephen Colbert, check out these links... (Part1,Part 2 and Part 3 of the 2006 White House Correspondents Dinner):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qa-4E8ZDj9s


http://youtube.com/watch?v=MOYZF3It848

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iAvFM4TYQKU&feature=related

Enjoy !!! :)


V

[shameless agitator]

U reely a congenital idiot or jus kiddin us on???I love you Fran

[12voltman59]

This whole notion that the war in Iraq has been a "good thing"---just from a more "conservative" reckoning of what the war has wrought--has nothing to do at all with things on the ground in Iraq--but the typical selfish conservative notion of what is going on here in America--to that end---I will address what the war is doing to the readiness of the US Army---not good as determined by some of the following articles I am going to provide links to--first---in order to try to at least break even in maintaining recruiting levels---we now see a continual decrease in military recruiting standards:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/27/america/army.php

http://www.slate.com/id/2182752/pagenum/all/

http://www.nationalstrategy.com/Programs/NationalStrategyForumReview/CurrentNSFRIssueFall2007V16Issue4/Fall2007NSFRDemographicChallengesUSArmy/tabid/105/Default.aspx

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/mar2005/mili-m12.shtml

And on the state of US Army readiness--

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/12/08/troop_levels/

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/congress/2006_rpt/060913-murtha-obey_army-readiness.htm

This article--mentioned in some of the others from this past fall that appeared in THE ARMY TIMES of statements made by Army Gen. George Casey on the effects of the current wars on miltiary readiness:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/09/army_casey_070926/

I won't even talk about the problems the war on Iraq have destabilized the situation in Iraq itself and in the region surrounding Iraq.

We had in 2006, Israel's invasion of Lebanon and now with what appears to be the assassination of a top Hamas official deep inside Syria---it could cause a full scale war in that area--that will involve Israel. While there are issues in that area specific to that area---the war in Iraq has helped to increase those tensions--including the fact that several million Iraquis have fled the situation in their country and resettled in places like Syria and Jordan.

We don't yet know what all of the ramifications and unforeseen consequences that have been and are yet to be unleashed thanks to our war of choice in Iraq---I hardly think you can say we have brought peace, democracy and the American way to this part of the world and I dare say---we have not made our situation any safer thanks to Iraq--I think a very strong argument can be made we have--by our own selfish standards---actually have made ourselves more unsafe by our forays into the middle east in terms of Iraq has served as the best recruiting tool Al Qaeda ever had---and that we have stretched our military to the breaking point.

Safer as a result of this war---I think not!!!

[vittoria]

---I hardly think you can say we have brought peace, democracy and the American way to this part of the world

Vraiment....




Superman (tm) would be PISSED!!!!



V