Bi and Poly

[Brian]

By Shameless

It was steamy. Truly hot. And in the morning, when the three of us awoke at last, we hugged each other closer, further entangling sticky brown arms and legs in greater degrees of warmth and wetness. Mmmm. So good. And what’s awesome is that when, later on, we fell out the door to catch some brunch, there was no drama. No discomfort. No weirdness about who loves who more, or less, or who feels left out. Not that that stuff is bad—it’s sometimes necessary. But how sweet when we can enjoy each other and not have to deal with angst-ridden aftermath!

Ryad is my partner of seven years. We’ve been polyamourous to varying degrees throughout that whole period, and getting increasingly good at it. When we started, of course, there were a lot of fights and fears, terrain that we navigated by practicing the art of really listening and owning our individual shit. Arguments that used to take three days now take half an hour, and then whichever lover is staying home knows that they’re still loved by the other, who may be on their way to getting some other lovin’ for the evening.

Kevin is a relatively new friend and lover for both of us. Buff and beautiful, Kevin is a trans dude who has got to be one of the hottest gentlemen I’ve ever laid eyes on. When the three of us started planning play dates together, I could barely contain my glee. And I have not been disappointed.

Many bisexual and pansexual folks are already familiar with the yummy dimensions that the world of polyamory, sometimes called ‘non-monogamy’, can offer. For others, it is an entirely new and tantalizing concept. The word ‘polyamory’ comes from Greek: “poly”= “many” and “amour” = “loves”. In Dossie Easton and Catherine Liszt’s much-referenced book on the subject, The Ethical Slut, the authors suggest that the word has been used to refer to a spectrum of relationship and sexual styles. It has been used to refer to any sexual activity that does not fit into typical definitions of monogamy; it can also refer to diverse types of committed love relationships that include more than two people.

For Ryad and I, what ‘polyamory’ means has changed over the years. When we got started, we’d first play sexually with other people only at play parties. At these events, one was likely to encounter someone who, in everyday life, was a friend. Within the container of the party, that relationship would expand—often just for that night. As the play party community developed, these relationships developed as well, and both myself and Ryad began to have ‘play dates’ with folks who lay somewhere along the continuum of friends and lovers. Sometimes these would be one-time events, and other times they’d be a series of sleepover dates that happened every few weeks. Sometimes Ryad would be with me, as in the case of our play dates with Kevin. Other times I’d play with a new lover on my own.

Lately, our relationship has changed again. I was recently stopped in my tracks by a hot butch babe, herself married and poly, and we’ve been nurturing somethin’ special ever since. We’re committed to seeing each other a couple of times a month, and there’s a level of emotional intimacy there that I hadn’t had with more casual connections.

Poly linguists might refer to Ryad as being my ‘primary partner’, and Tania as being my ‘secondary’. Others reject such hierarchical terminology, and avoid words that emphasize the different degrees of connection in their relationships. But the way I see it, it all comes down to time and energy. Some poly people may give equal time and energy to all their partners or lovers, thus not needing to refer to any as more ‘primary’ than any other. Others, like myself, have one relationship that is more central to their life—one that takes up more time and energy. I call this my primary relationship. Additional relationships are cherished but have less time and energy put into them.

Bisexuality and pansexuality involve a spectrum of attraction. Bi or pansexual people are attracted to people of more than one gender. It seems that the willingness and desire to be with more types of people often translates into a desire to be with more people generally, as many folks who identify as bisexual or pansexual are also poly. This may reflect peoples’ high level of comfort with their sexuality: they are open enough to explore sex with lovers of more than one gender, and open enough to explore more than one relationship style. Undoubtedly, the effects of such openness can be sumptuous…

Of course, it’s not all fun and games. Jealousy is, for many, the biggest challenge in poly living—one that can heal as well as harm. In Love Without Limits, Deborah Anapol writes, “Let jealousy be your teacher. Jealousy can lead you to the very places where you most need healing. [It] can teach you how to live in peace with yourself and the whole world if you let it”. One way that I believe that jealousy can teach us is if we look at the feelings that come with it—one of which is often fear. To be able to confront our own fear, to look it in the face, can help us feel stronger in our everyday lives. (Warning: only try this with support from others, and ideally with support from the partner about whom you feel jealous!)

In bi- and pansexual relationships, jealousy can get configured in specific ways. For example, an acquaintance of mine who is bi and poly feels very jealous when her bio-male partner gets with a woman, but is completely comfortable when he sleeps with another man. One possibility is that on some level, she considers ‘real’ relationships to be those between a man and a woman, thus unconsciously negating the seriousness of his partner’s secondary relationship. This is internalized homophobia which, once highlighted, can be dealt with. Alternately, it might be that when her partner gets with another woman, it hits closer to home, more directly raising the common fear that she will be replaced by the new love. Of course, it is just as likely that she could be replaced by her partner’s male lover as his female one!

Often, a partner’s jealousy has nothing to do with the other lover’s gender. Ryad is equally jealous of Tania as he has been of my male lovers! His security has grown through his willingness to ‘own’ his jealousy, rather than getting angry at me and trying to change my behaviour.

Truth be told, however, such security can only come about when one is clear about one’s own needs and boundaries, and when one’s partners or lovers are willing to negotiate. In order to avoid constant anxiety, I find, it’s good to develop the skills of tuning into what one wants, and of asking for it from one’s partner. This may involve asking oneself potentially difficult questions, like: “How do I feel about so and so sleeping with so and so three times in two weeks?”, “How do I feel that they’re going out with so and so on Friday night when that used to be our night to chill out together?”. Such questions can then help develop things that we can ask our partner or lover for, like “How would you feel about getting with so and so for 4 hours instead of 6 on Sunday, so that we can have time to do x?” and “Can we have a date this week—one that doesn’t get filled up with doing household stuff like laundry or grocery shopping?”. Getting clear can help us see what we’re just plain uncomfortable with, so we can set boundaries like “Be done your business and have your clothes on before I come home”, or “Not in our bed”, or “You don’t get to go on your second date and leave me with the kids if I haven’t had any downtime this week”.

It’s funny—at times I’ve felt very petty asking to have very reasonable needs met. When I talk about ‘getting clear’, I don’t want to suggest that this is an easy process. For ages, I couldn’t get clear because I didn’t think I had the right to ask for what I wanted. I couldn’t say “Please do come home at 10:30 since that’s the time we’ve agreed upon”, or “Can you and Rajit move your date to Thursday so that we can spend some time on Friday?” I probably don’t need to tell you how gendered that guilt was. Women are not invited to feel like we deserve what we want. If we ask for what we want, we’re often told we’re being petty and selfish. Well, fuck it. These are not petty things. These are bona fide, important signifiers of the love and respect that is in a relationship. And though it might feel like a pain in the neck to one’s partner, responding to a partner’s needs, wants or desires can ultimately mean that everyone feels a whole lot easier in their minds about how everyone else is feeling. Then you can just go out and play and know where you stand.

(c) Copryight 2005 Shameless

Shameless is a fabulously frolicksome femme who has a penchant for polyamory and political organizing. She's been actively building sex-positive, anti-oppressive community for a number of years, and hopes to continue bringing abundance and healing to herself and the planet through writing, singing and listening.

[moongirl]

Thanx for your upfront account of your experiences shameless. Have you managed all this and had kids as well?? That's a pretty amazing outpouring of energy for one person!! As someone whose marriage is basically coming to an end for various reasons, but largely because of my bisexuality and our inability to reach some resolution on this between us - your comments on women and guilt struck a big chord. It's good to know how other people work these things out in their lives, but also to be real about the emotional complications as well. So thanx again - I really enjoyed reading it.
M.

[Ansil III]

Hello Shameless,

After reading the article and internalizing what was put forward, I must say that I was intrigued by what I consider a fairly accurate account of what might have happened with your experience.

I do believe that distinctions must be made between primary and secondary partners as it allows for a clearer understanding of the dynamics of the relationships vis-a-vis how you may feel about a particular person. Jealousy often raises its ugly head at the most inconvenient of times, but you are right- one must listen to his or her partner and analyze carefully what is going on in the other's mind. However, don't over analyze too much or there will be an inevitable strain in the relationship. Just be honest and let the love flow.

As for my, I am bi, but not really interested in meeting people for sex at this time. I have had previous partners and been engaged in polyarmorous affairs, but it was always easier when I wasn't around. Perhaps, I decided to give my partners their freedom, but you know what, deep down inside, I was never really comfortable, always afraid of being left out. Eventually, most, if not all of these relationships failed and they have thought me significant lessons in life.

Whilst I one day hope to meet someone who I can settle with, and of course I am not restricting myself to anyone sex [although I am not out], I shall not be preoccupied with the search. I have my work and my research to occupy my time, although I must say that I have met quite a few interesting people at this site, and I really do love the work that they are doing. Don't ask me why I am writing this much, but after reading the article, I felt the urge, perhaps, to unburden myself with these thoughts.

Significantly, what I am trying to say is by being poly, we may be opening ourselves to much more than multiple partners. I may also provide for unnecessary emotional stress in relationships that one may consider primary. Its something to think about anyways.

:cool:

[bigregory]

I heard the term poly and thought i knew what it was.
But after reading your article ,i get it.
I guess i was missing the deeper issues,
like peoples feelings.(self-centered i guess)
I have also found out that sex does not need to be part of a poly relationship.
It's just friendship.........

[metasexual]

I have always considered myself both bi and poly even though I have never really had a poly relationship. I (the male of the couple) have had a few mmf and ffm experiences with friends which were very enjoyable even though they never went very far beyond just sex. We are getting married soon and are deeply committed to each other and hope we can find some very close friends to add to our relationship. Every time I hear stories like Shameless' it encourages me that this might actually be possible.

[artsonggirl]

Thanks for the thought-provoking article. I'll admit I wish I could be in a successful poly relationship. I've found in the past, however, that I used polyamory as an excuse to avoid intimacy. In a recent relationship I was very sexually fulfilled by hearing tales of my partner's lovers. I enjoyed very much that he could explore his desires with others and share those experiences with me. But at the end of the day I realized it was a convenient way for me to keep him at bay. I felt safe, that is to say, not pressured into committment.

Lately I find myself seeking committment and I wonder, can I really have both?

[kickasstrinity2]

Shameless, thanks for sharing ur experiecnces.....you have put into words what I have been trying to explain to my husband.... about how i feel and my growing needs as a bisexual woman....

Thanks again......U ROCK! :)

[okto05]

I like both men and women so for whatever reason the world needs to be divided is be on me get over it, and live life to the foolist sex is fun for both men and women besides my girl takes the strapon when I am bad and gives me a good ass fucking to keep me in line welcome to the new world.

[leizy]

Many folks argue that bisexuals are just made for polyamory, or vice versa. I wen to a talk with Dr. Anapol with my wife, and we had a great time, though found it a bit kooky for us. It was neat though, to be in a group of people where we didn't have to pretend to be the traditional happily married couple.

I also recommend the book Redefining our Relationships, by Wendy O'Matik. It's about poly, but what's cool is that she is quite young, as compared to most of the poly writers, who came of age in the 70's.

cheers.
david

[Lillianblack]

Hi...
I am a "true" bisexual woman, and also a poly (although we have specific rules which make both of us more comfortable). I am a woman with a man and I love women. We have been together for 8 years, and at year 5, I admitted my bisexual tendencies to him. He was more than supportive and has remained so throughout these past years. I have felt jealousy only a few times, as has he, and I wonder what will happen when I sleep with the girl I want and he is not invited? He is supportive until he feels "left out" and then I feel guilty...
I know this seems unhealthy, but it has worked for us for quite awhile and I am happy in it....don't know what to do. I am falling hard for this girl and I don't know what to do about it (she is complicated...loves me and yet is reserved about being with girls because she has been hurt.)
I know that I cannot give her up, but I refuse to give him up...guess I just need some sage advice.
R

[JustADuck]

Just curious, is there anyone else here who is bi and serial mono? I'm one of the only monogamous bi folks I know. I have no interest in poly and don't feel like I am denying part of myself by choosing to be monogamous. I suppose I'm an old-fashioned romantic, whether it be with men or women. :2cents:

[Sex in Words]

I don't think you're alone. I think there are plenty of monogamous bi folks. And you're certainly not denying yourself at all. At the end of the day, it all comes down to love, and if you've found yourself someone you're attached to and you're not into looking for anything else, then that's all that matters.

[JohnnyV]

just a duck,

I'm bi and mono. I think it's fairly common.

J

[dr. fill]

Interesting stories and comparisons of what people determine in their minds.

I recently lost my wife of over 50 years. During that time I had a male lover for 30 years, whose battle with what he was, was finally lost to alcoholism. During that period, I honestly feel by applying the title monogamous, in each case I was....because of only one partner of each gender...but again THAT is open to interpretation.........the poly part of my life came in the early days before I found and committed to my m partner. There were a lot of both men and women thru my life and each left an impression, a love, a friendship, that in many cases exist still today....tho we have moved beyond the sexual arena...but in each and every case it was driven by love not lust. I absolutely cannot understand how others can live in a lifetime of only one partner, monogamous to the end, unless there is some kind of love I dont understand.... :)

[DGoncz]

I am bi/poly with two current female partners and one who's waiting for me to get some sense snapped into my head before we resume. No men at this time, but one dear Teddie Bear that I loved deeply in my past who changed my life and let me know I could love a man or a woman.

Thanks for the encouraging article. My approach to socialization is to attend my local poly group and just hang, try to be cool, and let the bi stuff happen later. Less-long-term partner says I work the room, but she's just kidding.

Look at my profile if what I say is not clear: I am an unprejudiced judge of human character. I am discriminating but I do not discriminate. At least, I try to be that. And that's all anyone can do, just let it happen. In other words, keep flying the plane; work it but don't jerk it.

D.

[Bothbi_cpl813]

The Mrs and I have been Poly aware for quite a few years and tried to attain this romantic notion of human bliss....... :eek:

It is very complicated, we have tried it with a female ,lady friend we knew.... she lived about an hour away and wasn;t open to her son (12) about what was going on. so the bliss we were seeking, went out the perverbal window. There were other issues as well but not to beat a dead horse we parted company and went our different paths

Had a couple of failed "couple" tries as well, never made it out of the basement.

Have yet to try a male-male-female relationship so I don;t have a frame of reference to make any statements from. I suppose that is the next logical step.

I will say in the male-female-female relationship, jealously was a major pitfall. Both for my wife and our lady friend. and it was more over a jealously of time spent with one or the other. Now I am pretty good in most things of the heart,mind and body. But, I can;t be in 2 places at once and i suppose others had encountered this before.

WE had belonged to a couple of poly groups, but they seemed more into finding that elusive bi-poly-female. I thought that belonging to them would have given "tips" on how, and why to keep the idealic relationship going, but alais, that wasn;t the case. They seem to be stumbling around in the dark as well.

Well anyway that is my experince with that, but I will say haven't given up, merely not actively seeking, Ms Rght or Mr Right.... but I will say it is fun having Mr. or Ms. RIGHT NOW ! LOL

[newfiesusan18]

Just curious, is there anyone else here who is bi and serial mono? I'm one of the only monogamous bi folks I know. I have no interest in poly and don't feel like I am denying part of myself by choosing to be monogamous. I suppose I'm an old-fashioned romantic, whether it be with men or women. :2cents:

Oooh, oooooh ME, ME!! I'm a bi-chick and a serial-monogomous-person as well ! I don't disapprove of people who are polyamorous. That's entirely their choice, and if it makes them happy, I say go for it!

I just know that I'm happy being with just one person at a time. I'm an old-fashioned romantic too, in some ways. :tongue:

So, don't worry JustADuck, you're not alone. There's more of us out there, although sometimes I also wonder where they're all hiding!! :bipride:

[APMountianMan]

Just curious, is there anyone else here who is bi and serial mono? I'm one of the only monogamous bi folks I know. I have no interest in poly and don't feel like I am denying part of myself by choosing to be monogamous. I suppose I'm an old-fashioned romantic, whether it be with men or women. :2cents:

I don't think the issue is whether you are an "old-fashioned romantic" or not, but the level of work you want to put into relationships. My wife and I would welcome a poly relationship with the right person. That meaning a person that shared our commitment for one another and is committed to each of us also. In that instance we would be a committed unit. Until such a person is revealed we are happily monogamous. That doesn't mean that there is anything missing from our relationship; it simply means we are open to the possibility that there may be another soul mate out there, somewhere. Being poly like being bi isn't what you do, it is who you are. In the same vain, I don't believe that most bi folk are living the poly lifestyle. I think most understand they are bi but are living as monogamous couples. But, I could be wrong.

:2cents: :cool:

[Jupiter7]

Interesting stories and comparisons of what people determine in their minds.

I recently lost my wife of over 50 years. During that time I had a male lover for 30 years, whose battle with what he was, was finally lost to alcoholism. During that period, I honestly feel by applying the title monogamous, in each case I was....because of only one partner of each gender...but again THAT is open to interpretation.........the poly part of my life came in the early days before I found and committed to my m partner. There were a lot of both men and women thru my life and each left an impression, a love, a friendship, that in many cases exist still today....tho we have moved beyond the sexual arena...but in each and every case it was driven by love not lust. I absolutely cannot understand how others can live in a lifetime of only one partner, monogamous to the end, unless there is some kind of love I dont understand.... :)

xxx
Wonderful to read Somebody saying logical stuff! I was just about to cancel out before - all the heavy panting was grossing me out - in the personals.

Sorry about your wife. I know that was/is tough.

Polyamorous is a new word for my vocabulary. But I do know that multiple partners is a grand experience - from my distant past. Currently I'm in a monogamous relationship - with myself. Which is voluntary (I keep forgetting) - but only because I know there is nothing out there as good as I've already experienced. :flag3:

[Rainahblue]

:bigrin: Great article and I love everyone's comments, too.
It's always wonderful to see poly life portrayed in a positive light since we so often hear misconceptions that are based on the negative.
Being bi and poly really opens one to a lot of potential love and it's so rewarding when it's accepted and celebrated.

[diB4u]

Thank you for that interesting article. I've currently discovered that I am infact Pansexual. Being 32 you would think that things would've kicked in by now. But guess that I had other issues to figure out first. It recently started to fall into place, as I have been really engrossed into gay men. Engrossed is the wrong word obsessed infact.

Then it hit me, its because I find myself attracted to gay men, I joked with my mother about this, but she actuarly thought it's because I've not been successful with men that it's a coping mechanism. I failed to tell her its not. I cant explain why but i am...

Yes i have had a small amount of poly but thats not what I actuarly wanted, what i got was sex, what i wanted was and still is a great relationship. Why can't I find my idea partner in two people??? Thats also what I've wanted for ages, but being a fugly duckling its not happened. The idea of Poly really started after I began to read the Anita blake novels, where the main character has more than one boyfriend, but also actuarly they all sleep in one big bed, not only for sex but for companionship.... Thats what i want. Ideally a bisexual man, and a woman...

But sadly I find it hard finding one person to love me let alone two.

[ohbimale]

Great article. Well thought out and very informative. :flag3::male::male:

[tempest4all]

Really excellent. I have let myself be put into the box of "marriage" and now 20 years into it we haven't had sex in 5 years. Not because we aren't both sexual but because I am a poly and she isn't. I can't bear to espose this to her. It just makes me look like a slut in her eyes. I have some growing to do-thanks!:flag3:

[im_here]

If your spouse does not know about it then it is still cheating on them. The basis of poly lives is honesty, trust, and of course fun for all involved.

[PlacentaJuan]

"Polyamory" is such a fake philosophy and a concept and philosophy that only a complete fool would hold a candle to, have faith in and believe in. What complete idiot would actually believe that it's nothing more than being in an open relationship?

Nope, Polyamory doesn't exist. It's just a nicer way of saying that someone's partner wants some cock or pussy on the side that you can't give them! It's just an open relationship and there's no difference between polyamory, polyfidelity, swinging, and an open relationship.

I don't see the difference between having an open relationship and what people who are self defined and self described as poly say that polyamory is defined as. I see the two as being the EXACT same thing but just with different names.

My main issue with "polamory" is that it's just another word for an open relationship and I've read books like the Ethical slut or other essays about polyamory and in my opinion it's just another word for an open relationship.

Research has shown that open relationships or what people call "Polyamory" makes people feel validated if they want to turn away from working on relationships they have, gives them an excuse to stay married and not get a divorce, gives people an excuse to sleep around and find more people who like to sleep around, and gives people an excuse to validate orgies and multiple simultaneous sex partners.

I am not cool with different levels for group marriages and group family rearing of children. This brings in commune/cult mentalities and individuality starts to blur. Some people think it's okay to have a highly sexually charged environment but keep the sex acts 'behind closed doors' away from the kids, and others think it's okay for everyone in the "family", even the kids to sleep in the same room while sex acts, partner swapping, and orgies are going on.... The trouble with this whole "self-proclaimed polyamory" that I can see is that there are no guidelines for what it really is, so people use it to be whatever they want it to be.

I also don't understand why polyamory is supposed to be so 'free' and 'open' yet people who are self defined as poly feel the need to be so clearly defined. Or they tell you about it ALL THE TIME as if they're just trying to personally validate it to themselves, when it's not that revolutionary and it's only having an open relationship.

[PlacentaJuan]

Ever wonder what people who are self described and defined as "polyamorous" are saying when they say things?

Well there's no need to anymore as there's a handy translation guide!

~Author Unknown~

Poly-amorous, new age rhetoric and it's english translations....

Poly phrase: "I don't use primary/secondary terminology, since I don't see my relationships as hierarchical."

English translation: "You're a secondary."

Poly phrase: "For me sex is about energy, so breathing and heart connection are more important than ejaculation."

English translation: "I'm more sophisticated than the guy over there, please sleep with me instead."

Poly phrase: "I see polyamory as being more about relationships and intimacy, while swinging is just about sex, and sex without intimacy is just not where I'm at right now."

English translation: "I'm more sophisticated than the person over there, please sleep with me instead"

Poly phrase: "The most important thing to me is keeping agreements."

English translation: "If you start seeing someone else and I'd feel unsophisticated just saying that I'm jealous, then I'll reinterpret one of our agreements until I'm able to say you broke it."

Poly phrase: "Even secondary relationships for me aren't just about sex."

English translation: "Secondary relationships for me are just about sex."

Poly phrase: "Right now the most important things to me are building poly family and intentional community."

English translation: "I'm getting concerned that I won't always be able to easily find new partners, plus I'm tired of driving from place to place, and oh yeah, I'm more sophisticated than the guy over there, so please sleep with me instead."

Poly phrase: "In our household the most important things are open communication and open process."

English translation: "Expect to be abused with passive-aggressive 'I' statements."

Poly phrase- Our family has spent considerable amount of time working through jealousy issues. No drama or competition here!

English translation- We are well entrenched in our particular form of disfunction, but I give the best head of the bunch so sleep with me instead!

Poly phrase: "I don't feel that we communicate on the same level, and that you aren't supporting me emotionally."

English translation: "I'm tired of you but it would make me seem less sophisticated and hence reduce my opportunities for further sexual relationships in this community to actually say that so bluntly, so I'll make his about vague failings on your part instead."

Poly phrase: "I think we should each have veto power."

English translation: "I want to reserve the right to veto each of your partners, no matter how much they respect our existing relationships, so that you're de facto limited to monogamy while I play the field."

Poly phrase: "I think that we should focus on each other for a while."

English translation: "I'm having more trouble finding partners than you are, time to clip your wings!"

Poly phrase: "I want you to always feel OK telling me what's really going on in your life, and asking for what you need in this relationship."

English translation: "Ask for what you need, and express hurt feelings, at your peril."

Poly phrase: "I'm not angry at you, I'm angry at myself, for not having recognized sooner that we weren't right for each other."

English translation: "I'm angry at you for not making my life perfect, but rather than taking responsibility for setting and meeting my own goals I find it more satisfying to shift the blame to you while superficially appearing to do the opposite."

Poly phrase: "Out of respect for our primary bond, we normally only see other people together."

English translation: "MAYBE THIS TIME I'LL FINALLY GET TO HAVE SEX WITH TWO WOMEN AT ONCE OMG OMG OMG THAT WOULD BE L33T!!!!! "

Poly phrase: "I think we need to process the end of our relationship and get closure."

English translation: "I'd like to kick you while you're down."

Poly phrase: "We obviously need to work on our relationship."

English translation: "We're through, I just want to vent a little more so that I can feel a little more self-righteous once you know it's over too, OK?"

Poly phrase: "The idea of line marriage has always appealed to me."

English translation: "The idea of having sex with people younger than me has always appealed to me."

Poly phrase: "So, which conventions do you like to attend, what kind of books do you like to read, what are your spiritual beliefs, and what is your ideal occupation?"

English translation: "Which science fiction conventions do you like to attend, who is your favorite fantasy author, what form of neo-paganism do you ascribe do, and where in the computer industry would you like to work?"

Poly phrase: "I'm needing to do some inner work, and instead of dating anyone would rather just work on my relationship with myself."

English translation: "I'm tired of you, but since I don't have anyone else lined up right now I might as well get some mileage out of the personal growth angle."

Poly phrase: "Well, I'm only theoretically poly, but I already have plenty of firmly-held beliefs about how it could be done in real life!"

English translation: "Hi, I'm an idiot."

Poly phrase: "Swinging would be way too crass for me, I'm more about relationships and emotional intimacy."

English translation: "I've always wanted to go to New Horizons swingers club (see here: http://www.horizonsclub.com/), could someone give me a ride there and guest me in, as long as I don't have to ask publicly?"

Poly phrase: "All of my partners are equally important to me, and they're all primary."

English translation: "I'd rather not explicitly spell out what the hierarchy is, but trust me - you'll know when you run into it."

Poly phrase: "Our friendship is more important than anything else."

English translation: "Once you've told me that we're done fucking, you'll never hear a word from me again."

Poly phrase: "I'm willing to take this slow as well."

English translation: "I intend to act like a SNAG (Sensitive New Age Guy) and put as much pressure on you to put out as possible."

Poly phrase: "I've had to do a lot of work on that issue myself in my other relationships, and I'd be glad to help you with it if you want."

English translation: "I've tried blaming all my other partners for my shit and they won't put up with it anymore."

Poly phrase: "I really admire the way you are able to speak up for your boundaries in your relationships."

English translation: "If I'm going to get you to sleep with me, I'll have to be a cagey, manipulative bastard."

Poly phrase: "My other partners and I share a lot of interests but we do a lot of things separately, too."

English translation: "None of my current partners will let me have anal sex with them; will you?"

Poly phrase: "My partners and I follow our own unique spiritual path."

English translation: "Please join our cult."

Poly phrase: "I've learned so much from all of my relationships."

English addendum: "...so I know not to tell you about my OSOs/mental illness/contagious diseases until after you're emotionally involved with me."

Poly phrase: "I expect and give honest communication."

English translation: "I will bludgeon you with my opinions whenever I feel like it and if you can't take it then you must have a problem with 'honesty.'"

Poly phrase: "I wish we could all just get along."

English translation: "Give me what I want and no one gets hurt."

Poly phrase: "Have you read "The Ethical Slut"?

English translation: "If you don't have sex with me, or at least read that book, you're a prude and aren't evolved like I am."

Poly phrase: "Age is just a number."

English translation: "I will not fuck women or men who are my age or older."

Poly phrase: "Do you do Tantra?"

English translation: "If you don't have sex with me, you're a prude and aren't evolved."

Poly phrase: "Poly people are more evolved than mono people."

English translation: "I'm a virgin."

Poly speak: "It's a shame you're limiting yourself and your love."

English translation: "Why won't you fuck me?"

Poly phrase: I've told my poly partner about you and she's very excited to meet you so we'd like to have you over for dinner soon. Would you like to join the two of us for that?

English translation: Due to how hot I said you were my poly partner feels very threatened in her status as my primary, and she is obsessively compelled to check you out in person so she can look for some ammunition with which to veto any potential relationship you and I could have. Would you mind bringing a body guard?

Poly phrase: I've told my poly partner all about you and he is so excited to meet you that we are both hoping you'll have dinner with us soon.

English translation: I've told my poly partner how attractive you are and we both hope to eat you for dinner soon.

Poly phrase: Being poly has made our sex lives even more WONDERFUL because while my primary partner and I REALLY love playing with each other, we also WELCOME the opportunity to meet interesting new people, and open to the presence of other special lovers in our lives!

English translation: Being poly has given my partner and I a very WELCOME excuse to have sex with new people which is WONDERFUL because we're REALLY sick of each other and our relationship with each other is falling apart!

Poly phrase: Our relationship could be characterized as a primary polyamorous connection which will organically evolve over time. Both of us are too sophisticated, open, level-headed, and rational to tolerate putting any limits on other people or ourselves.

English translation: We're each other's booby prize. Both of us are too selfish, poorly groomed, dysfunctional and crazy to find any other people to tolerate us.

Poly phrase: I don't know if our connection has each and every quality necessary for a successful primary relationship, however I would like to explore this further because I do care about you very much and really cherish our friendship.

English translation: I know I'd love to have sex and explore how orally talented you are right now because I'm very horny, however I don't like you enough to really spend much time with you.

Poly phrase: I am seriously interested in working out our secondary relationship in such a way that would make both of us happy. I'm wondering if we could both try to create more room in our lives for each other? I'm hoping you're thinking something similar.

English translation: It was fun being fuck buddies. Maybe we'll do it again in a few months? Or not.

Poly phrase: My primary partner and I have totally worked out our jealousy issues regarding the play parties we attend. I get thoroughly wet when I watch him share pleasure with other people! Loving communication and listening are our life's priorities.

English translation: My partner makes me feel totally psycho at every play party. I thoroughly punish him with my sublimated rage later when we're at home! Passive-aggressive behaviors and messages are our favorite pastime.

Poly phrase: "I'm very happy you're in a relationship and have found love, but to only express love for one person, I feel is not the "Way of Soul". "

English translation: "I could care less if you are in a relationship. I have an uncontrollable compulsion to shamelessly flirt, play games and have my kind of "fun" regardless of anyone else's feelings, and I can totally justify my behavior with spiritual rhetoric."

[Born1987]

well it's pretty interesting to see how bisexuality is always linked to polyamory polygamy. I'll be honest: I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but we never hear about monogamous bisexuals. My friends who are almost all straight describe me as the most faithful and monogamous person they met, and I am bisexual. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with polygamy, if there's honesty about it, but how is it we never hear of monogamous bisexuals? there are many.

[halobeam]

well it's pretty interesting to see how bisexuality is always linked to polyamory polygamy. I'll be honest: I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but we never hear about monogamous bisexuals. My friends who are almost all straight describe me as the most faithful and monogamous person they met, and I am bisexual. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with polygamy, if there's honesty about it, but how is it we never hear of monogamous bisexuals? there are many.

My gf and I are both bisexual and monogamous. I don't think I can ever have polyamorous relationship, it just wouldn't work. It would be too complicated for me since I would feel jelous and I don't want to share my gf, there is no way. But if Polyamory works for couples that's great, good for them. People that object to Polyamory need to remind themselves that others used to (or still do see bisexuality as people that want to sleep around and I've heard them say bisexuals are perverts and they shouldn't have children etc...so how can we ask for recognition while we don't recognize others...acceptance of other people's choice is important for me, as long as they are not causing harm, it all becomes matter perspective too...

Just a note there is difference between Polyamory and polygamy.

[princessAyisha]

I've never been in a bi/poly relationship but I'm hoping to find one. It sounds like a fantasy but I'm gonna hold out for it.:bibounce:

[2guys1girl]

We are new to the poly lifestyle and I enjoyed reading your post. It gives some insight on if the way we are feeling about each other is real or the "right way" to do it. We are a married couple with a boyfriend. Between the 3 of us we have 7 children which some live with us full time and some do not. It is very tough to be able to have fun with the 3 of us anytime of the day(unless all the kids are in bed) We have done usually the 1 on 1 thing with the 3rd person downstairs watching the kids. Any suggestions to how to get around that? Since we are a new 3some we would like to have more time for the 3 of us together so 1 is not feeling left out or as if its "their turn" to watch the kids.

[newbie40]

How about hiring a baby sitter and all 3 of you get out to play for a few hours?

[NotLostJustWandering]

Thanks, everyone, for the wonderful article and your comments. I never considered poly as the way for me until quite recently, and where I'm living there's nothing like polybi community (hell, homosexuality is against the law) so til I move on I'm counting on Internet forums for information, dialogue and support.

Especially now, having just broken up with a gay lover who mocked me for my MMFF dream, I so appreciate accounts of people who share my dream or are even living it. (I've foresworn dating any more monosexuals, and I get I shouldn't even consider bis who want to be monogamous.)

I guess people come to poly out of different motivations. I have a deep instinct to be faithful to any lover I'm seeing regularly, and to seek out a life partner. Of course this has always made poly seem unthinkable. But ironically these same desires have led me to consider poly, simply because I've come to think my desires for a man and a woman will always get in the way of any attempt at life partnership if it's monogamous. I don't need dozens of partners. One man and one woman would be perfect for me, and the idea of more doesn't even appeal to me (does this sound funny?). I just imagine a second woman would be necessary to keep the other happy (I'm assuming she's bi, too; anybody know of any straight women happily in a MMF? Hard for me to imagine.)

2guys1girl, I am particularly delighted to hear of your story, and I hope you'll keep posting as it unfolds. Love how in your profile you say you're looking for the 2nd woman to "complete" you. Wow, I'm not alone in seeing MMFF as the complete relationship!

Speaking of that 2nd female, what about what Bothbi_cpl813 said about "that elusive bi-poly-female"? Are BiPoly women in short supply? opinions, everyone?

Interesting to see the different forms poly takes. There seem to be more reports of lifestyles that take what you might call a open-chain model -- person A is seeing both person B and person C, who in turn in seeing D who is seeing E, etc. -- rather than a closed-circle model where more than 2 people are together but aren't seeing anyone else. Is this indicative of the poly scene, or are the open-chain people just posting more?

I'm not crazy about the primary/secondary lovers thing (just speaking about what I want; I can see why this works for other people). I wouldn't want to be anybody's secondary lover unless it looked like a possibility of evolving into equality. I wouldn't join a couple or triple and expect right off the bat to be as close to them as they had already become to each other, but I would only put myself in this secondary position if everyone's stated intention was to try being equal lovers together. And likewise, I'd feel horrible about subjecting someone to being my secondary without any hope of ever having equal status with my primary.
:flag4:

[DGoncz]

I am bi/poly with two current female partners and one who's waiting for me to get some sense snapped into my head before we resume. No men at this time, but one dear Teddie Bear that I loved deeply in my past who changed my life and let me know I could love a man or a woman.

Thanks for the encouraging article. My approach to socialization is to attend my local poly group and just hang, try to be cool, and let the bi stuff happen later. Less-long-term partner says I work the room, but she's just kidding.

Look at my profile if what I say is not clear: I am an unprejudiced judge of human character. I am discriminating but I do not discriminate. At least, I try to be that. And that's all anyone can do, just let it happen. In other words, keep flying the plane; work it but don't jerk it.

D.

Still subscribed to this thread and read them as they came along.

I"m now very clear about needing to be Lucky Pierre, penetrated by him while penetrating her, or the other way 'round if she's using an equipment.

I've had two years of student and associate memebership with AASECT, reading dialogs between sexuality educators, counselors, and therapists and posting wildly off-base and inappropriate writings of my own (to no rebuff) to realize it's OK to be who I am, or what I am. I may attend their Conference just days away, June 3 in Pittsburgh, PA.

I've had an 80-hour training (IRCI, not AASECT) that qualifies me to listen to someone for 30 minutes at a time without interrupting, judging, or falling asleep, and bill Medicare for that, even if that someone just tried to kill themselves or someone else, or can't see me because they see a grasshopper instead, or an alien, or a dead body with worms coming out of it.

I do what I can, when I can, as I am able.

Feldendrais is my latest try at integrating the walls of defensiveness and restriction that make up an intelligence with the natural wisdom of wet, warm, vibrant tissue. I like it. Is that simple enough?

I'm reading and playing in DC June 12 at 7 PM. PM me to find out where, if you're around.

Yes, some of us are poly/bi. It's just what we are. My signature card at the bank shows a Pi [slash] Double Gender Symbol after my name, for a good reason. The sooner we all get to being what we are, *as* who we are, the better. This world don't need no more fakes. A lover who's gone now told me "silence is acquiescence." Remember that this Memorial Day. Love is worth fighting for. Echo. Mirror. Validate. Empathize. Have it out, try it on for size, see if it fits, then decide and find our where your responsibility takes you.

Hello, out there, my Teddie Bare, friend for a time, still got a dime, call when you can, if you can find me, I'll know your voice, I will never forget you, O my luscious, slippery, fuzzy Teddy Bare.

Hi Angel.

[Realist]

Very interesting story!

Anyone can put their own spin on the description of poly relationships. Long-winded intellectualizing of what you think poly-armory is and isn't, does not affect how I feel about it. Basically, I know that 3, or more people can live together in harmony, in a loving and mutually gratifying relationship.

I admit to having tried and failed to live in more than one relationship with 2, or 3 others. However, on two occasions I was successfully involved with one married couple....which lasted about 13 months, and one with two females for about 24 months. Circumstances beyond our control ended them, but while they lasted, they helped create enough memories for a lifetime.

In neither of those relationships did jealousy ever become an issue. It had been the cause for failure with the other attempts.

Without writing a long diatribe, I can say that those relationships were the most exquisite and loving of my 69 years.

[FemmeFatale]

I just dont work well in monogamous relationships...I see the polyamorous relationship I'm in as happy and it feels more natural to all three of us.
The main cause of any arguments is too much testosterone when the guys get stressed and as the supposed calming female presence I have to keep them apart for a while..:) Before I was in the relationship I knew about polyamory but not an awful lot, we're all bisexual but of course anyones sexuality in such a relationship isn't as big a factor as made out.

[TulsaTriad1]

We are new to the poly lifestyle and I enjoyed reading your post. It gives some insight on if the way we are feeling about each other is real or the "right way" to do it. We are a married couple with a boyfriend.

As a bi male 25 years coupled and over seven years tripled, I can attest that it is quite possible that the way you are feeling about each other is real. The "right way?" Nobody can answer that but the three of you.

What happened to us is that we looked at each other across the blankets in the morning and said, "This feels surprisingly okay."

Communication is key, of course, but that's true in any relationship. I think the Three C's play a special role in poly success because the logistics are so challenging. As my wife sometime puts it, "Now I have two men to interrupt me."

Our relationship is different from (but not better than, except maybe for us because it's ours) some of the others discussed in this thread in that none of us is actively looking outside. I've seen the term "polyfidelity" used for those who choose a slightly expanded version of the traditional notion of exclusivity, but I'm not sure that quite describes us either. We've generally given each other options, and on occasion, one or the other of us has exercised that option in an episodic sort of way.

Part of the poly ethic is recognizing that people are free to choose -- we just keep choosing each other.

Part of the LGBT ethic is to be who you are -- besides being good personal advice, that's pretty good relationship advice, whatever your orientation.

Can it work with more than two? You bet. At least for some of us.

How can you make it work? Be yourself, be honest with your partners and don't forget that love is a verb.

[TulsaTriad1]

where I'm living there's nothing like polybi community (hell, homosexuality is against the law) so til I move on I'm counting on Internet forums for information, dialogue and support.

I just imagine a second woman would be necessary to keep the other happy (I'm assuming she's bi, too; anybody know of any straight women happily in a MMF? Hard for me to imagine.)

Greetings from Oklahoma, Wandering! I guess homosexuality isn't against the law here, but it sure ain't Christopher Street. Actually, we have a remarkably close-knit and supportive (and large) GLBT community here. Cairo could be next!

As for the straight F with two Ms? Yes, that's possible, too. But she has lots of other women, of all orientations, to support her. (And FWIW, she thinks that MMF makes a lot more sense than the MFF configuration that many str8 men seem to fantasize about. Logisitically speaking, of course. Plus in terms of getting stuff fixed around the house.) :male::male::female:

[kinsey4]

Hey people, I'm new here, just read through all the comments in this thread and gotta say it's interesting to see what other people's experiences have been, thanks for posting!

Also, that great big 'poly translation' post here, for which I'm assuming the person was banned - did anyone else find that really funny? :tongue:

[NotLostJustWandering]

Hey people, I'm new here, just read through all the comments in this thread and gotta say it's interesting to see what other people's experiences have been, thanks for posting!

Also, that great big 'poly translation' post here, for which I'm assuming the person was banned - did anyone else find that really funny? :tongue:

Yeah, it was funny, but that guy wasn't. Go through his posts and you'll see that most of them were attacks on other members. I'm amazed he posted as many times as he did before he got banned.