"Gay Straight or Lying? Bisexuality Revisited," Revisited - Part 2

[Brian]

By Bill Burleson

http://main.bisexual.com/forum/images/misc/miscstuff/author23.jpg Part 1 - http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3799 (http://main.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3799)

Two years ago, I was in Indianapolis for a book reading at a local LGBT bookstore. After the event, members of the local bisexual organization, Indy Bi-Versity, took me out to dinner and to a nice little gay bar. At the bar, there were about ten of us sitting around a large table. It was early and still quiet. A man who obviously had been drinking a little bit recognized someone at our table and joined us. After a few minutes of conversation, he said to no one specifically, “You’re bi? You’re all bi?” “Yes,” we said. He relied, “I don’t believe in bisexuality. You’re all just gay and lesbians who haven’t come out yet. Go ahead, prove me wrong.” It is interesting to take in the absurdity of the circumstances: This guy apparently feels comfortable telling ten people he doesn’t even know that they are wrong in how they feel and that he knows different, and then demand proof of the validity of their sexual orientation.

This is not unlike the situation the bisexual community finds itself in since the release of the Michael Bailey, Gerulf Rieger and Meredith L. Chivers Northwestern University study, “Sexual Arousal Patterns of Bisexual Men,” (2005 American Psychological Society). In it Bailey claims, “Indeed, with respect to sexual arousal and attraction, it remains to be shown that male bisexuality exists.” As easy at it is to dismantle Bailey’s claim (See Part 1), the fact that the claim was made means the bisexual community has had to deal with it ever since.

The first and most damaging thing the community had to deal with was the story by Benedict Carey in the July 5, 2005 New York Times, “Gay, Straight, or Lying? Bisexuality Revisited.” According to Carey, “…a new study casts doubt on whether true bisexuality exists, at least in men.” And the study “lends support to those who have long been skeptical that bisexuality is a distinct and stable sexual orientation.

“Nobody heard of the study until the Times article came out,” says Sheela Lambert, a New York City LGBT and bisexual activist. I first heard about the article the minute it hit the Time’s web site, the evening before the paper landed on doorsteps. I am not in the habit of checking their web site for the latest news (I am in the habit of sitting around on Sunday morning reading the Times and the Times Sunday Magazine, I must confess), but I am a member of several internet groups regarding bisexuality, and immediately I must have received 20 emails.

“People felt punched in the stomach,” said Lambert. “It was very painful.”

Not everyone was displeased. Dan Savage, advice columnist for many alternative dailies around the country, has long sparred with bisexuals. In a column titled “Just a piece on the side,” published July 14, just nine days after the Times article, Savage says about the study, “At the very least it jibes with, er, field observations I've made of male bisexuals. The sad fact is that male bisexuality is rare, much more so than female bisexuality. While there are a lot of guys out there having bisexual experiences…there's a difference between someone's true sexual orientation and their sexual capabilities.”

However, with all due respect to Savage’s “field observations,” support for the bi community from the greater GLBT community was both swift and clear, both concerning the study and the Times story. “Whether or not Bailey's conclusions are true, the study fails to demonstrate them effectively. Bailey has repeatedly in the past employed problematic research procedures and this study is no exception,” said Paul Varnell - not always a friend to the bi community himself - in the August 3, 2005, Chicago Free Press. Rebecca C. Brown commented in the August 4, 2005 Daily Californian, “Count me among the many who are as impressed by Dr. Bailey's findings as Jerry Falwell is by Charles Nelson Reilly's ascot collection,” “…slew of logistical failings…,” “…quack study…,” and “Bailey is operating on the idiotic and simplistic notion that porn equals real life.” In GenderPsychology.org, “What troubles me is Bailey's implicit assumption that he can answer this very personal matter for other people. Just because he essentializes sexual orientation in one way does not mean those men who see themselves as bisexual are lying.”

However, the big guns were saved for the New York Times. Matt Foreman, Executive Director for National Gay and Lesbian Task Force said in a press release, “We remain stunned that the New York Times Science section would carry such a shoddy, sensationalistic and downright insulting story.” The Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD) said “The claims put forward in the article, combined with the derogatory headline, are raising questions not only about the Times reporting on this study, but also about the study itself.” They were especially concerned about the headline for the article: “GLAAD contacted the Times about these concerns and asked that the online version of the headline be changed so it no longer insinuates that self-identified bisexuals are lying about their sexual orientation.” However, “The Times declined and defended the headline, saying that the phrase ‘gay, straight or lying’ is a commonly used phrase among many gay people.” Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR), a media watch dog group, had something to say about that stand: “It's unclear why a derogatory stereotype about one group—bisexuals—should be more acceptable in a headline because it is attributed to another group—gay people.” They went on to say “In leaping to dramatic conclusions from a single study with a small population, Carey echoes the study's authors, who seem equally eager to generalize from scant evidence--and to confuse the study's assumptions with its conclusions.”

Much of the criticism focused on questions about Bailey’s credibility, and why the New York Times failed to report on it. Again, according to FAIR, the Times failed to give “readers any hint of Bailey's controversial history,” asserting that Bailey had argued for, should become possible to determine the future sexuality of a fetus, selecting for heterosexuality. “The fact that a researcher has promoted the eugenic elimination of homosexuality would seem to be relevant background for gauging the credibility of his studies of bisexuality.”

Bailey is probably most well known for his book, 2003 book, The Man Who Would Be Queen: The Science of Gender-Bending and Transsexualism. To me, this work makes “Sexual Arousal Patterns of Bisexual Men” look like “The Origin of Species.” The book has no footnotes, no surveys, and no statistics, and was built on anecdotal observation of a small handful of people who are transgender. According to Lynn Conway (a transgender activist who has dedicated herself to debunking the book), “…the simply pronounced as a scientific fact that postoperative transsexual women are either (i) effeminate gay men who underwent ‘sex changes’ in order to have sex with lots of men, or else they are (ii) sexual paraphilic males who ‘changed sex’ for bizarre autosexual reasons.”

Attacks against Bailey have been blistering. In a review at the web site for the National Association for Research and Therapy in Homosexuality, A. Dean Byrd, Ph.D., MBA, MPH states, “J. Michael Bailey has been accused of having sex with a research subject. His own sexuality has been questioned—he is a divorced father of two who frequents gay bars for the purpose of doing ‘research.’ He has been accused of failing to obtain the informed consent of research subjects. Formal charges have been filed with Northwestern University against him over this.” Northwestern did scrutinize him and his work, but has not released the results of the investigation. However, in October 2004, Bailey resigned as Chair of the Psychology Department. It would be hard to imagine the two are unrelated.

Yet, even though the meaning of the results of the study has been sharply challenged, even though the researcher is under a cloud of suspicion, the study—and the New York Times story—lives on. As Loraine Hutchins says in her essay, “Sexual Prejudice: The Erasure Of Bisexuals In Academia And The Media,” in American Sexuality Magazine, “The story made its way into other news media outlets and was reprinted and commented on around the world.” And I know that, too often, even a well designed and credible study can end up distorted in the media, and the distortion is repeated over and over again until it has a life of its own. Even the best studies are often reduced to a headline or a sound bite, sometimes completely inaccurate. In fact, in the Times there is some thoughtful analysis—starting in the tenth paragraph—yet all that will be remembered is “Gay, Straight, or Lying.” We may examine the meaning of Bailey’s work, we may talk all we want about methodology, and we may talk about the researcher’s credibility, but what many will remember is that it’s “proven” that there are no true bisexuals, just like the drunk man in the bar that night in Indianapolis argued.

I feel sorry for those poor people who look to this for advice,” Lambert says. If a bisexual man is starting to explore his feelings, “It could take him years to sort it all out.” Bottom line, according to Lambert, “They can say there are no bisexual men until they are blue in the face. It doesn’t make it true.”

***

William Burleson is the author of Bi America: Myths, Truths and Struggles of an Invisible Community, from Haworth Press. In addition to being a columnist for Lavender Magazine in Minneapolis and a regular contributor to the Lambda Literary Report, Burleson essays about bisexuality have appeared in many publications. Burleson is currently the producer of a weekly Minneapolis cable access television show, BiCities!, has helped coordinate [B]BECAUSE: the Midwest Conference on Bisexuality and the Eight International Conference on Bisexuality. He is a frequent speaker at college campuses, bookstores, and conferences. You can contact him at http://www.bi101.org.

(c) Copryight 2007 Bill Burleson

[Azrael]

Holy freaking God! Where do I begin?
Excellent, albeit unsettling article.
I don't think we should forget it's only been 33 years since homosexuality was declassified as a mental disorder. Lots of people from the dark ages of psychiatry still have a hell of a lot of power in certain places.
Yeah, lots of the gay men I meet go out of their way to tell me to 'drop the act'.
Fuck 'em. Can't please everyone.
That study about arousal patterns is total bunk.
Punched in the stomach does not even approach it.
I'm thinking more along the lines of something like:
Infuriated to the point of constructive madness :cool:
This one seriously lights a fire under my ass. All these people like NARTH, FOTF, CC and whathaveyou, my Dad and his wife probably belong to at least one group like this. It's ok, I'm getting back to Tampa just in time to protest the 'family impact summit' i.e. let's get a bunch of fundie psychopaths under one roof for three days so they can have a mass queerbashing in a nice air conditioned room. I'm THERE :bigrin:
It's personal now. Now they're on MY turf.
'This aggression will not stand, man"
-The Dude aka his dudeness, dudeus maximus :bigrin:
That bit about transgenders being perverse and or gay and man crazy is also a well marinated load of tripe.
I don't wanna sound like I'm ripping on gay men or women, I have many gay friends who aren't catty, elitist little snobs. I love the queer family, even if certain elements have treated me like shit, I still try to love em.
Anyone who wants to know more check out www.familyimpactsummit.org
Look at the guest list- Katherine Harris, Don Wildmon, Gary Bauer :eek:
Look up Tampa Bay Pride on myspace for more info about the gathering response to this disgusting spectacle.
It's ON :cutelaugh

Thanks for another quality article, Mr. Burleson.

[shybipinay]

Ouch!! I enjoyed my bisexuality alot more when I didn't know this stupidity existed out there. I first became aware of this concept from an internet friend. I'm still scratching my head as I continue to observe my journey down the bisexual path.

Let me say this: I was always hetero until one day, my partner asked me how I would feel if she constantly asked me to have sex with a man the way I was encouraging her to have sex with a woman. Over time and with much thought, I found the idea appealing and after a few nervous encounters, I now really enjoy some occasional sex with men. But, get this, I very much enjoy sexual relations with women and have no intention of giving that up. I also perefer to have my sexual relations with men with my female parter present and participating. So, how in the world can I be gay??? How can I even be lying??? I can't ever see myself having sex with men to the exclusion of all women. That's just not me.

I can tell you I am very inncensed about this study. The previous comments certainly also express how I feel. I am not gay, I am not lying, I am bisexual, hear me roar!!!

[TaylorMade]

Irony of Ironies, though.... NARTH is one of the organizations pointing out the failings of this researcher:


Attacks against Bailey have been blistering. In a review at the web site for the National Association for Research and Therapy in Homosexuality, A. Dean Byrd, Ph.D., MBA, MPH states, “J. Michael Bailey has been accused of having sex with a research subject. His own sexuality has been questioned—he is a divorced father of two who frequents gay bars for the purpose of doing ‘research.’ He has been accused of failing to obtain the informed consent of research subjects. Formal charges have been filed with Northwestern University against him over this.” Northwestern did scrutinize him and his work, but has not released the results of the investigation. However, in October 2004, Bailey resigned as Chair of the Psychology Department. It would be hard to imagine the two are unrelated.

That had to hurt a little.


*Taylor*

[bigirl_inwv]

I say...let people see me as they will. Stereotyping and prejudice has and always will be a prevalent problem. What pissed me off the most about the entire thing is that Times wouldn't take the headline down from the internet. So what if it's a common phrase used by another group of people. They wouldn't have used the N word in a title for their article just because black people say it. It's that double standard that pisses me off more than anything.

[darkeyes]

Wy get stressed bout it all??? We know wot we r..who we r,, wot sum clown decides 2 question an claim is is affair.. ther r enuff of us 2 do it pretty well...

Nowt worse than an arsehole who thinks they know our minds betta than we dus. The arrogance of prejudice.. the things peeps will rite an do 2 try an make dosh.. the misery peeps try an create outa ignorance.. the things peeps will say an do to prove 2 the world they r indeed.. aresholes...sod em all!

[jandj2play]

Ok since we unfortunately live in a society where everything must have a label so people think that they can look at something and with no or very little thought ,understand it....... what do you call a male ..or female that might be married ,in a committed relationship, or dating a member of the opposite sex....who's relationship includes Love, sex, all the things that make up the life experience for so many of us regardless of age , ethnicity, gender, etc. and yet might be attracted to ,sexually and socially a member of their own sex?
How about normal.
I also said "with little or no thought" earlier. If you read the article and see how many people, and studies , media watchdog group(?? c'mon) were involved it makes me wonder how so many people could be involved in accomplishing nothing...... Wouldn't we be better served as a society if the watchdog groups put their efforts into ??? maybe any of the real problems we have in the world and the way people are made aware of them??
My opinion... let Straight be straight and Gay be gay.. We know better.

[DiamondDog]

This article on Bailey is funny.

http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i41/41a00801.htm

I like how he just LOL "happens" to live in Boystown or the gay ghetto of Chicago, and the article all but labels him a closet case.

----
'Dr. Sex'
A human-sexuality expert creates controversy with a new book on gay men and transsexuals

By ROBIN WILSON

Evanston, Ill.

J. Michael Bailey clicks on an audio recording of four men: Two are gay and two are straight. Can the audience guess which ones are gay just by listening to their voices? asks Mr. Bailey, a professor of psychology at Northwestern University.

When the majority of those in the Stanford University lecture hall decide that a man with hissy s's and precise articulation is gay, the professor pronounces them correct. The lesson: You can determine a man's sexual orientation after simply listening to him talk for 20 seconds.

Sound like science?

It is billed that way in The Man Who Would Be Queen: The Science of Gender-Bending and Transsexualism, a new book aimed at a popular audience and published by the prestigious National Academies Press. Mr. Bailey, who spoke at Stanford as part of a book tour that has also taken him to Emory University and the University of California at Los Angeles, is already widely known for his studies linking sexual orientation to genes. (His research on twins is mentioned in most introductory psychology texts.)

But his latest work has created a bigger buzz than most scholars hope to enjoy in their entire careers. Not only does he identify a set of interests and behaviors he says can be used to tell whether a man is gay, he ties homosexuality to transsexualism. The book is receiving praise and damnation in equal measures, and the controversy is quickly making the author one of the most talked-about sex and gender researchers in academe.

Steven Pinker, a prominent psychologist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who is about to move to Harvard, wrote in a comment for the cover that the book "illuminates the mysteries of sexual orientation and identity," deeming it "the best book yet" on the subject. In an interview, he says Mr. Bailey has "opened up a whole new field by asking new questions about sexual preference."

Other scholars and activists have blasted the book for reinforcing inaccurate stereotypes. It has come under the harshest attack for challenging the common medical diagnosis of "gender-identity disorder," which is used in treating people who want to change their sex. Men who want a sex change to become women have long been thought of by psychiatrists as "women trapped in men's bodies." But Mr. Bailey writes that men who want sex-change operations are either extremely gay or are sexual fetishists.

The contention has infuriated activists and scholars who are transsexual. They have produced reams of strident online commentary about Mr. Bailey's book. One Web site calls the book "junk science" and likens it to Nazi propaganda.

Daniel I.H. Linzer, dean of the college of arts and sciences at Northwestern, says Mr. Bailey's work is "having an impact on the field. ... The most we can hope to do as scholars is stimulate additional thinking and work. ... That's a wonderful recognition of the impact Mike is having now."

Mr. Bailey, chairman of the psychology department at Northwestern, teaches "Human Sexuality," one of the most popular classes on the campus, with up to 600 undergraduate students each year. Some of those students have dubbed him "Dr. Sex" or "the Sex Professor." Despite the draw he has on the campus, many of the descriptions of Mr. Bailey and his new book that have appeared on Web sites and in interviews have been ugly. "Cocky," "insensitive," "lurid," "condescending," and "mean-spirited" are just some of the designations used.

Academic Nerd

It is hard to imagine that all this venom has been inspired by the soft-spoken 45-year-old, who has barely a trace of his native Texas drawl. If anything, Mr. Bailey is an academic nerd who is just growing into his reputation as a provocateur. He doesn't mind exposing what he considers sexual myths, no matter how much the results might offend people. And he argues that he is "very pro gay," while acknowledging that "the research I do isn't." While he counts female transsexuals among his friends, he says some "have their feelings hurt" when he contends their sex changes were motivated by erotic fantasies, not gender-identity problems. But he adds, "I can't be a slave to sensitivity."

He majored in mathematics at Washington University in St. Louis, married his college sweetheart, and worked as a high-school teacher for a couple of years until he enrolled in graduate school at the University of Texas at Austin in 1982. He decided against an advanced degree in mathematics because, he says, he knew he wasn't in the same league as some of the top math students at the university. Besides, says the man who now studies transsexuals, "two of them were very strange."

Instead, he pursued an interest in Freudian psychology that was piqued by an undergraduate history course on the topic. "Freud was into all this dark and sexy stuff with the unconscious and how people's motives are usually hidden," says Mr. Bailey. "I thought, 'I can become a psychoanalyst.'"

But at Texas he quickly grew annoyed with the clinical-psychology program. "The people doing it were not really researchers. They were more like an authoritarian cult: Believe this or else," he says. He was more attracted to scholars who were "being hard-headed and asking questions," and even considering unpopular possibilities, like a link between IQ and genes.

Mr. Bailey focused his dissertation on what was then a little-studied subject: the biological causes of homosexuality. The project ran directly counter to Freud's explanation, which is that gay men are the result of overbearing mothers.

The dissertation kicked off an important area of research, which Mr. Bailey continued after landing an assistant professorship at Northwestern in 1989. Two years later, he was a co-author of an article in the Archives of General Psychiatry based on a study of brothers that found a genetic component to homosexuality. The research found that 52 percent of the identical twins of homosexual men were also gay, compared with only 22 percent of the fraternal twins and 9.2 percent of the brothers who were not twins.

Mr. Bailey makes a point in his book and in his off-campus lectures of telling people he is straight. He divorced in 1996, and has two all-American looking teenagers, who excel at swimming, wrestling, and academics. What's it like to have a sex researcher for a dad? The kids know all about their father's work, although Mr. Bailey has been known to cover his 16-year-old daughter's ears when discussing his research. If the kids visit his office, though, they're bound to see some of the dozens of sex-related videotapes he uses for his research or in class, including The Sexual Brain, Men, Sex, and Rape, and a three-part series: Sex: A Lifelong Pleasure.

Mr. Bailey says his divorce, not his research on sexuality, has influenced his choice in clothing. Now, instead of a white dress shirt and khaki pants, he wears tight-fitting knit shirts, a black-leather jacket, and plenty of Ralph Lauren Safari cologne. After Northwestern gave him the raise three years ago, the professor bought himself a car that stands out as well -- a black BMW 325i.

Still, Mr. Bailey is not a social magnet. He has an awkward, bouncy walk and a reserved, sometimes brusque manner. But he is well liked, not always the case for a department chairman. "He's the kind of person you go to when you have a problem," says David H. Uttal, an associate professor of psychology.

Mr. Bailey lives in an apartment on the edge of Boys' Town, Chicago's historic gay district, and frequents gay bars on Halsted Street, both for research and for fun. "It is very interesting and vibrant and kind of wild," he says.

He recalls one time in 1995 when he took students to a gay bar called Vortex, where he was doing research. He was interested in drag queens, surmising that they were a link between gay men and transsexuals. "There was gay porn on video monitors, and here I was with these 21-year-old sorority girls," he recalls.

'Politically Incorrect'

Four rooms constitute Mr. Bailey's sex lab in Northwestern's Swift Hall. In one room, a graduate student plays videotapes of men and women talking and asks visitors to rate the subjects' voices and body language on a scale from masculine to feminine. It is the kind of research that backs up Mr. Bailey's claim that gay men are more effeminate than straight men, and confirms, he says, that snap judgments about sexual orientation are often correct.

In another small room, graduate students monitor Mr. Bailey's most sexually explicit project. Subjects are left alone to watch pornographic videos on a small television in a darkened room where gauges measure their arousal. The subjects also report their own responses by operating an electronic lever.

The arousal study is supported by a $100,000 federal grant from the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, and the results are to be published soon in the journal Psychological Science. Mr. Bailey found that while straight men are aroused by women and gay men are aroused by men, women -- whether heterosexual or lesbian -- are bisexual in their arousal, attracted to both men and women.

Mr. Bailey likes to call himself "politically incorrect," and takes positions that run contrary to conventional wisdom. For example, acting as an expert witness in a 1999 case in Illinois, he supported a child molester who requested a reduced jail sentence after agreeing to be castrated.

"People for emotional reasons were saying stuff that simply wasn't true, like castration won't work because rape and child molestation are crimes of violence, not crimes of sex," says Mr. Bailey. "Although this may have been violent to the victims and wasn't sexually enjoyable, that doesn't mean it wasn't for the rapist." He wrote an article with another psychologist on the subject for the Northwestern University Law Review, citing others' research on how castration reduces sex drive.

Mr. Bailey also believes AIDS-education campaigns are misguided. "Middle-class, straight kids at Northwestern who are having sex with other middle-class, straight kids at Northwestern have a close to zero chance of getting AIDS," he says. "They are being over-worried about AIDS. If people feel there's little difference between gay or straight and getting AIDS, gay men are going to underestimate the risk."

Those are hot topics in the professor's human-sexuality course. But the most popular part of the course actually takes place outside the lecture hall. Mr. Bailey invites transsexuals and gay men to speak after class, and gives undergraduates free rein in asking questions.

Students have requested tips on oral sex and wondered what the gay men think about monogamy.

Mr. Bailey says he's never received any flak from Northwestern, either about his course or about his research. In fact, when the University of Pennsylvania offered him a full professorship in 2000, Northwestern matched the offer, giving him a $28,000 raise, to $92,000 a year.

That doesn't mean everyone on the campus agrees with his work. "He is looking to the body for truth, as opposed to social and cultural frameworks," says Lane Fenrich, a senior lecturer in the history department who teaches gay and lesbian history and the history of the AIDS epidemic. "It's in many ways no different from the way in which people were trying to look for the alleged basis of racial differences in people's bodies."

Gay Femininity

It was during his visits to gay bars near his home that Mr. Bailey began to refine his research on gay men's femininity, and came to the conclusion that homosexuality and transsexuality are part of the same continuum.

Gay men have more feminine traits than straight men, he writes, including their interests in fashion and show tunes and their choice of occupations, including florist, waiter, and hair stylist. If a man is feminine, says Mr. Bailey, it is a key sign that he is gay. And if a man is gay, Mr. Bailey says he can tell a lot about what that man's childhood was like. He "played with dolls and loathed football" and "his best friends were girls," he writes in the book.

In fact, writes Mr. Bailey, some gay men are so feminine that they want to become women. He calls men who have sex changes for that reason "homosexual transsexuals." These people are typically very sexy and convincing as women, as well as extremely likely to work as escorts, or as waitresses, receptionists, and manicurists, he writes. They have trouble settling down with a mate because, like gay men, he says, they enjoy casual sex with several partners.

The other type of transsexual is completely different, asserts Mr. Bailey. These men who want to become women were not particularly feminine as little boys and aren't particularly female-looking after a sex change.

As men, they may have cross-dressed, or masturbated to fantasies of themselves as women, and they typically have "sex reassignment" surgery much later in life than do the first type.

Using categories defined in work by other sex researchers, Mr. Bailey labels this type of transsexual "autogynephilic," which means they are sexually stimulated by the act of making their male bodies female.

Mr. Bailey realizes that most transsexuals won't like his characterization. In fact, he says, some are so unwilling to face their motivations that they "lie," falling back instead on the more accepted "I'm a woman in a man's body" narrative. But, he says, their protests don't negate his theory.

Some prominent gay scientists argue that Mr. Bailey's book candidly tackles subjects that have been taboo among gay men.

"If you go back a decade or two, people would be much more defensive and stridently deny the existence of 'gaydar,' and emphasize that gay people are just like straight people," says Simon LeVay, a neuroscientist who has published several books on sexuality. "Well, we're not. There's more to being gay than who you're sexually attracted to."

But Niko Besnier, a visiting professor of anthropology at the University of California at Los Angeles, believes "there is a real homophobic agenda" underneath Mr. Bailey's pronouncements. "You cannot judge whether a voice sounds masculine or feminine," says Mr. Besnier. "I can sound much more feminine if I start talking about interior decorating, even if I don't change my voice."

Mr. Besnier says there are all kinds of gay men, from the "feminine, willowy type to the butch, leather daddy." He was one of about a dozen gay and transsexual people who showed up at Mr. Bailey's lecture at UCLA this month. While most of them asked respectful questions after the professor's talk, some harshly criticized Mr. Bailey.

The same group persuaded a bookstore in West Hollywood that caters to gay customers to cancel a reading by Mr. Bailey and stop selling The Man Who Would Be Queen.

'As Varied as Any Gals'

No one is more outraged by Mr. Bailey's book than transsexual activists and scholars who believe he has mischaracterized them. One Web site, tsroadmap.com, posted photos of the professor's teenage son and daughter, with black bars over their eyes and sexually explicit captions underneath. "Bailey's book is one of the most insidiously vicious pieces of 'transphobia' ever to come out of academia," Andrea James, a transsexual woman, wrote on the Web site, where she labeled Mr. Bailey's book a "bigoted treatise."

Mr. Bailey says he isn't intimidated by tsroadmap, and he accuses Ms. James of "throwing a tantrum and calling me and my family names." (Ms. James recently removed the photographs.)

Lynn Conway, a professor emeritus of electrical engineering and computer science at the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, says Mr. Bailey is threatening to overturn 40 years of mainstream scientific thought that says men who want to become women are suffering from "gender-identity disorder."

"This book seems like a lurid and reactionary attempt to strip us of our hard-won female gender and of our social and legal rights, too, by relabeling us as either homosexual men or male sexual fetishists," says Ms. Conway. She had a sex-change operation 35 years ago and describes herself as a "nice married gal" who lives in rural Michigan with her husband Charlie, whom she has been with for 15 years.

Ms. Conway and other transsexuals say Mr. Bailey never bothered to talk to them, even though many learned about his project and offered their views. Instead, they charge, he focused on the handful of transsexuals he met in Chicago's gay bars.

"He knows, what, nine gals?" asks Ms. Conway. "I've known hundreds of post-op women, and they're all over the boat. There is no generalization. They are as varied as any gals are."

Joan Roughgarden, a professor of biology at Stanford University who had a sex-change operation in 1998, was so angry about Mr. Bailey's book that she wrote a letter to the National Academies Press. "In academia, we've lived on this Noah's ark of inclusion, and we're sailing along on calm waters when all of the sudden we hit this big rock, and that rock is a psychologist," she said in an interview. Mr. Bailey's research method was simple, says Ms. Roughgarden. He calls all transsexuals he finds attractive "homosexual transsexuals," and all the rest "autogynephilic."

Mr. Bailey's work on transsexuals, unlike his scientific research on gay men, is anecdotal, and his book doesn't cite any figures to back up his claims. In his defense, he says he "went every place I could think of that I'd find a decent chance of finding transsexuals" to talk to and observe. That often meant gay bars near his home, like the Circuit nightclub.

Mr. Bailey, who bites his cuticles and shifts in his seat during a dinner one evening with his children and a reporter, seems more comfortable later on at the Circuit. He mixes easily among the transsexual women he knows, and buys a round of drinks. Most of the women are what Mr. Bailey would call "homosexual transsexuals," and unlike their academic counterparts, they count Mr. Bailey as their savior.

As a psychologist, he has written letters they needed to get sex-reassignment surgery, and he has paid attention to them in ways most people don't.

"Not too many people talk about this, but he's bringing it into the light," says Veronica, a 31-year-old transsexual woman from Ecuador who just got married and doesn't want her last name used. A real-estate agent, she wears her black hair pulled back in a tight ponytail, and her slight build and smooth face would never betray her origin as a man.

Anjelica Kieltyka, a 52-year-old transsexual woman, was the "poster girl" for Mr. Bailey's writings on autogynephilia. At least on the surface, her appearance matches Mr. Bailey's classification to a T: her thinning, bleached-blonde hair is tucked up under a brown tweed beret, and her towering frame and broad shoulders give her an androgynous look.

But Ms. Kieltyka says the professor twisted her story to suit his theory. "I was a male with a sexual-identity disorder," not someone who is living out a sexual fantasy, she says.

At midnight a show begins on the dance floor. The place is packed, and smoke fills the air as the performers sing and dance to Latin music.

Mr. Bailey and his guests crane their necks to see, putting his theories to the test by wondering aloud whether the performers' voices, looks, and movements betray their identity as gay, straight, or transsexual.

When the show ends an hour later, the professor and his friends head for the dance floor -- where he seems to come alive.

http://chronicle.com
Section: The Faculty
Volume 49, Issue 41, Page A8

[montyprim]

I know what this person probably believes in. His is a black and white world. Either it is the one or it is the other. It cannot be both. This may be fueled by modern science searching, fruitlessly, for the straight and gay genes. If they do indeed exist, then you must be one or the other from your mother's womb. That is only common sense.

My own thoughts on the subject, I am pretty sure, most of you will agree are pretty out there, too.

Although genes hardwire the body, brain, and even personality traits, I do not believe they determine who and what we are. Sexually, they determine when a person will become sexual, barring any premature experiece. Can they determine the body type of the person you will be attracted to? The answer to that is, NO! That's a lot to put on a gene. The most important factors are enviromental.

How those people around you relate to you while you are growing up and how you relate to them will determine to whom you are attracted. Sexuality grows out of curiousity and not the other way around. Children have natural curiousities, but that is not sexual until the time they become sexual entities. It is those things we become fixated on in others around us during this time that become sexualized in our minds. I could call this the emotional hardwiring of the brain. Once there, it may be denied but not forgotten.

The purely straight person has fully sexualized his/her curiousities of the opposite sex, while having no unsatisfied curiousities toward members of their own gender. How many can truly say the later is true with them?

The purely gay have grown up quite satisfied, for whatever reason, with their relationships with the opposite sex. (How many gays can say this?)Anyone who has done this must have isolated themselves emotionally from their own gender. They just didn't feel like they fit in there. And, no man is an island. The void has to be filled. The intimacy promised by sex seems most fulfilling and, thus, provides a quick fix to this emotional void. It works, but we know we may also be deceived by it. What is really desired is the closeness of the relationship. The search for this tends to lead down certain paths, which gives way to stereotypes. This is where the thoughts of individuals and society, as a whole, get caught up in.

The middle ground is the bi-sexual. Their sexual curiousities extend toward both genders but not equally. Interest is based on a curve. Therefore, very few must be equally straight and gay.

If it has been hypothesized that ten percent of the population are truly homosexual, then it could also follow that only ten percent are truly heterosexual. The middle eighty percent would be classified as bi-sexual. Of course, I am not distinguishing between active and inactive members of this group. The active group is small. They do not fit into the gay or straight world. The inactive members, society's true majority, are constrained by their own belief systems, coupled with societal approval/disapproval to deny this part of self, often even to themselves. Latent homosexual is a dreaded label.

The world loves the first ten percent. It is the only category that is truly acceptable, because it produces family by bearing children. Any contrary thoughts or feelings seem unnatural and wrong.

This group also could be less threatened by the others, because they are settled and comfortable with their own sexual nature. It is those who hate and seek to deny this part of themselves that lash out the most.

So you tell me, which group do you think the man who says you are either gay or straight belongs to?

My guess is he is not comforable, for whatever reason.

[12voltman59]

I am so totally tired of this "there ain't no such thing as bisexuality and you had better just make up your damn mind one way or the other which way you are gonna be!" crowd.

It does get so tiring----it kinda makes your head feel likes it gonna go BOOOMMMM!!!!! LOL

Oh well---let them believe what they will---it is just like everything else these days--like either "the war in Iraq is the best thing to happen since sliced white Wonder Bread" or "it is a total disaster that will be our undoing."

I should no longer be amazed that two different people with the same elements of the facts laid out before them will come to almost diametrically opposite conclusions regarding just about anything you can think of----

For me--I chose to live in the universe where bisexuality is very real and the war in Iraq is one major cluster fuck!!!!

[vices2habits]

Nothing but demonstrably empty assertions... my reality, to Bailey, is delusion and vice-versa.

Bailey, et al, are easily dismissed: Do not let people take up space in your head if they are not paying rent.

[bigregory]

Great article Bill.
I am amazed bi the awsome feedback your post has incited.
My god its a stupid world, next thing you know people will start to believe that the bible is real..
I am very proud to be Bi.
How a dick like Baily can get away saying I do not exist blows my mind, he must have voted for Bush
:flag2::flag2::flag2:
Bi is best
GREG

[Johnny Reb]

This article is a God send. I did not know what to say to do about the study when I learned about it surfing on Wikipedia one day. (We all know how credible Wikipedia can be sometimes).

Funny, someone questions my sexuality and I'm like, well, hot women turn me on, and same thing with hot guys. What does that make me?

[LAURALALA]

Wow I have heard this arguement about bisexuality over and over....
For the first 12 years or so of my adult life, I was a lesbian...or so I thought...
Then at the age of 30, I started having some feelings that made me reexamine my whole view of myself...the relationship I had been in for 7 years...everything. I eventually ended my relationship, losing most of my friends in the process...For committing the ultimate lesbian sin.....wanting to be with a man..........It eventually brought me to where I am today.
I am married....to a bi man, in a polyamorus relationship, in which we each have another relationship outside our marriage...Is it easy? No, but I think it has caused us both to examine all of the things we thought we knew about ourselves and our previous relationships....

[bi-robin-wash]

"I can't be a slave to sensitivity."

No, but he can be and is a slave to premodern stereotyped prejudices about anyone he deems to be different than himself. As Shakespeare put it, "Methinks the lady doth protest too much."

It is truly sad that someone with such poor research methods and such lousy track record in academia can be considered an expert. What next? George H.W. Bush hired by the Brussels Sprouts Association to do PR for them?

But that's the New York Times for you: "All the news that fits, we print."

[danman]

I know I'm bisexual just because of my feelings. Nobody knows me so I can at least bare my soul a bit. I fall in love with women. When I mean I fall in love with women, I mean I get crushes and I want to spend the rest of my life with them (at least in my head at that point in time). On the other hand, I share sexual fantisies both about men as well as women. I can switch gears on a moments notice in deciding if I want my next fantasy about a man or about a woman. Weird but I have a choice about it. My secret sexual fantasies are shared only by me. I used to repress my sexual pleasure about men until I got into my 40's and decided to break away from my taboo background but that's a conversation for another day.

It exist. I've accepted myself and life is so much better. Hopefully society will be more acceptable especially for males. As of today, it is not.

[benjiboy]

For heavens sake! Why do we have to wear tags telling us what we already
know? Why should we have to justify ourselves to anyone? I've known since I was 14 yo that I was bisexual, but saw no need to advertise the fact or wear any kind of label to inform people. If people want to know they will ask.
I really dont care how I'm viewed, bi, gay or oddball. I am comfortable with myself, always have been. My friends and family are all comfortable with it, and that's all that matters. There are some, even amongst the gay community who will see us as neither straight or gay, who will say we are confused! Sorry, but confused I have never been. If people ask if I'm gay, I say yes. If asked am I bisexual then again the answer is yes! Enough said.

[Moto1]

You know what the most rediculous thing about this so called experiment is? Psychologists already know how to measure arousal (which is not just sexual but emotional in general), and it is determined by brainwave changes, moistening of the skin etc. This guy would have known this, as a psychological researcher. So why did he use a method of determining arousal that he KNEW was wrong?

[diB4u]

Hmm, well to be honest you like what you like regardless of what a person has said in a book. I’m struggling with my identity I am not to sure what I am. I came across a word pansexual. That could describe who I am. I am full of contradictions, but also of needs.

Even if the most renowned Psychologist could see into the debts of my soul… The person would come out needing their own counselling. I have always knew that I was different, but not really what. Where I am at the moment in time, is I’m trying to come to terms with who I really am.


I’ve for as long as I can remember found men attractive, then finding gay men attractive- even thought I’m the complete wrong gender, I still find myself sexually attracted towards gay men. Then a few years ago, I got to the stage of just implying that I was just a bit kinky. Hay I like seeing men in women’s’ underwear. I am now begging to find drag queens highly attractive as well as well as some Transsexuals some transsexuals make a far better woman than I do. I treat people I hope with respect.


So to go back to the topic slightly, its all hog wash. No one label will fit with me, because I am a growing and changing organism. I wish that I could find happiness, maybe in the arms of a gay male or at least a bisexual male, his lover, and mine.

Now a few years on from the thinking that I’m just kinky and like all sex, I’ve had a limited amount of experience with same sex scenarios. This however was ok, nothing earth shattering, but maybe it was the way it was done. Most commonly in a three sum. I like kissing women, men. Kissing done right is highly sensual. I like to watch male gay porn and lesbian porn too.

[thetangomaureen11]

I don't like labels.

[darkeyes]

I don't like labels.

Maybe not hun..but ya gonna get em all the same..... an wivout em jeez..wotta mess we wud b in.. even if they innacurate...

[Bianrky]

I have alot of thoughts about this I would like to share. First off I am a 46 year old bisexual man. I have been openly bisexual for 26 years. I have lived with a man in a relationship for 2 years. I have been with my partner almost 20 years. She is also bi. Take heart everyone this study debunked itself.


1) The scientific team acknowledged that 2 participants in the study showed that they were equally attracted to images of men/men and men/women.

2) 25 participants failed to respond to any of the videos (crappy videos?). This meant they weren't bi? What did it mean.

3) Bisexuals tend to enjoy unique erotica not standard gay. The particpants were only shown girl/girl, man/man vids. Anyone see a problem with that.

4) The ads to recruit these partricpants were in a gay newspaper.

5) I for one don't get "aroused" simply by looking at porn. Were these individuals allowed to touch themselves?

6) All the particpants were young. Why? I find this interesting. Why? Nothing agaisnt young people but is this an accurate sample of society.

7) The team started out with a conclusion they were trying to prove. Objective?

8) Quote from the study "homosexuals showed little or no arousel when shown images of women", "heterosexuals showed little arousel when shown images of men". Really? They showed a little arousel. Gay men showed some arousel at images of women and straight men showed a little arousel at images of men? That seems to me to show a little bisexuality.

9) There is no discussion in the study of the influence of socialtal morays on how the participants might feel about being witnessed getting aroused by the images.

10) If there is no natural male bisexuality then why is so much of it witnessed in the animal knigdom?

11) I HATE THE BASTARD THAT DID THIS STUDY.


Seriously folks, maybe we should start saying that everyone has the ability and potential to be bisexual and that none of them exist! Maybe we should start saying that conditioning pushes people into the box they end up in.

Maybe we should challenge Mr.Bailey to prove a man cannot make him reach orgasm. Real time. A litlle over the top, but this study is no better than odated studies that said there was no such thing as homosexuality.

What I know is this. for many reasons soem just and most unjust many straight, gay, and lesbian people have made a pact to push everyone into one of these three boxes. Except straight swinger males who are overjoyed at their wives willingness to invite other women to bed. That is a whole other topic. I will say this about that. If that makes all parties happy then so be it. It don't float in our bedroom. Then again it is our bedroom.

When my first male lover and I broke up all my gay friends turned their backs on me and whispered to others when I walked by "honey he's in the closet". I had to move colleges and lose a year of credit to avoid the pain. Then my next lover a female was told "by the way, I need to tell you I date men", her response was, "but not anyomore, right?". Everytimee I tried to tell her I was bi she just didn't listen. We broke up because "we won't be raising our kids Southern Baptist and I don't agree with your values", translation? SHE FIGURED OUT I WAS BI! THis was after two years living together and 4 years of dating. I decided then and there it was my fault. I was nevergoing to be in a committed relationship with anyone again who didn't understand that "I AM A BI MALE" PERIOD!
I recently read a piece in CityBeat out of Cincy that said "I don't understand why bi people don't just date each other and avoid all the backstabbing and pain".
I couldn't agree more. Bi people. DATE BI PEOPLE. Make more BI PEOPLE. Won't your life be happier? Of course.
My current partner started down the road with me at this position, "I love you bi or not, and I am not sure I am straight but I want to answer the question". She found out in time she loved women as well not in a threesome with me but on her own. Has this been painless? Is anything in life painless? Hell no she had to get stabbed twenty times in the back for being up front about being BI by lesbians she dated. IS this our fault? It is a learning process people?
This is what I have learned. I don't want to be in a relationship with a gay man anymore than he wants to be in one with me. I don't want to be in a relationship with a straight woman. I don't want to be in a 4 some with some straight homophobe and his wife. I want to have good mature friendships with other bisexuals. I am not saying this is "THE WAY" for everyone but it is the way for me.
The only way we put Mr. Bailey to bed is to make our community a force he nor anyone else can ignore.
To be honest It has gotten to the point where I wonder why I tell anyone I am bi, but then I remember that I must tell who I can or this situation will never evolve. We must fight for our safe space just like the Gay community does. WHy do I say that? Because as nice all the GLbT orgs out there have always been nice enough to inclube a B intheir names their programs tend to be for and about the G and the L in most parts of the country. That is fine. We need B orgs (I know there are some and folks should join them) but not enough. We also need to draw visible lines of difference beteen us and the wonderful nice and wonderful SWINGER community that BI MEN are not welcome in. Bi women, who want to be a part of that go ahead. It doesn't advance the cause of bisexaulity but if that is your thing go for it.
The best same sex sex I ahve had has been with Bi Men. The best opposite sex sex I have had is with BI Women. Coincidence? I don't think so. Like minds etc.... We need BI clubs for BI people. HEll we need a BI religion.

TO be honest this shit is painful but you know what they say? "No Pain No GAIN!"

[diB4u]

Thanks for that!

Yes I actually agree with you there, I am trying to extend my social network by meeting like minded individuals that I can be at ease with… (I can be me with my friends, but I don’t feel comfortable if I saw an attractive woman and we ended up kissing) Plus my personal life is my own, I don’t wish to see my friends at it thank you very much… You all get my drift?

I agree with your statement, its like at least in England its ok to be gay or lesbian… but for some people their interpretation of being bisexual is being greedy. I am most certainly not greedy, if I was I would be the luckiest person alive..

Also with identity it does get a bit confusing… Well at least for me, it would be socially accepted if I told people I was a gay woman, but I am not, I am pansexual and growing up, I identified with men. I was a damn fine good tom boy.. Probably still am lol…I do get aroused at look at porn, Gay male porn, Lesbian porn, Straight porn… I’ve watched all of them at one time, although the Gay male porn is the best… Hmmm…

[crazy owl]

Once upon a time I was a married man with 3 children. Then I started wanting sex with men so I read the Journal of Abnomal and Social Psychology where articles on homosexuality were published (@ 1960).
I read three articles and came to the conclusion that they didn't know shit about what they were writing about. The pope doesn't either. Is george bi, st8 or gay? Who cares?
The world mind changes slowly but the scenery changes rapidly - flower here - mess there. Enjoy the furor, its necessary to keep us moving
Charles Hall, PhD (UWis 1960) counseling psychologist, Mathematical Sstatistcian, hippie, Herbalist, Acupressurist. And my di*k still rises at age 80. Any one who wants it ..........................
Health and Happiness Crazy Owl

[SuchaBadDog1]

[QUOTE=DiamondDog;79335]This article on Bailey is funny.

http://chronicle.com/free/v49/i41/41a00801.htm

I like how he just LOL "happens" to live in Boystown or the gay ghetto of Chicago, and the article all but labels him a closet case.

----
'Dr. Sex'
A human-sexuality expert creates controversy with a new book on gay men and transsexuals

By ROBIN WILSON



http://chronicle.com
Section: The Faculty
Volume 49, Issue 41, Page A8[/QUO


Your comment really honed in on the reporters' telling detail. I found the article fascinating on a number of levels:
1. Sometimes the answer is blindingly obvious and you should accept it for what it is. For example, many gay men are effeminate and few straight men are.
2. No simple statement is ever completely true, including this one. Bisexual.com is a living testament to the diversity of sexual preferences and ways of expressing them.
3. Academics are very much afraid that they'll get caught making the simple complex--"over-intellectualizing" and they're equally disdainful of simplistic thinking, especially when it makes other academics famous or, worse, wealthy


Thanks for calling this to our attention.

[bi42guy1958]

Well, I read all these post and for whatever reason I felt that I had to throw my 2 cents in.

I do consider myself bisexual, now let me put a definition to that word, breakig it down........Bi, meaning of 2...........sexual, pertaining to sex or even arousal. So in my mind I am bisexual because I am aroused by both the female and male body. With women as one person stated here, I too go beyond the sexual arrousal, I desire the affection, the entwining of minds and thoughts, in other words LOVE; relationship other than sex. With men its purely sexual. I don't care to kiss, hug or show the affection in any kind of way. Its all about sex and making each other feel good.
And to comment on the porn thing, I like very little man/man sex. But when watching straight porn I get equally aroused seeing a naked woman, or a nice looking hard mans member.

[parkerbi]

Well, I read all these post and for whatever reason I felt that I had to throw my 2 cents in.

I do consider myself bisexual, now let me put a definition to that word, breakig it down........Bi, meaning of 2...........sexual, pertaining to sex or even arousal. So in my mind I am bisexual because I am aroused by both the female and male body. With women as one person stated here, I too go beyond the sexual arrousal, I desire the affection, the entwining of minds and thoughts, in other words LOVE; relationship other than sex. With men its purely sexual. I don't care to kiss, hug or show the affection in any kind of way. Its all about sex and making each other feel good.
And to comment on the porn thing, I like very little man/man sex. But when watching straight porn I get equally aroused seeing a naked woman, or a nice looking hard mans member.

Hi, dude. I totally agreed with you.:three:

[jrlopz]

Well, I enjoy my bisexuality because it makes me free of labels, or categories, or easily defined groups. My 1st sexual experience was when I was 13 with another boy from my school. He was my best friend through high school. I got married and lived in denial of how I felt until I met another bi-married guy as frustrated as I was and we hit it off for a couple of years. I moved and was doing Ok with women until I met my 2nd wife and she allowed me to come out as I was. After we split I started to go to gay bars in town, but as much as I enjoy a man I also enjoy a woman and that is that. Why is that, I don't know but certainly is not confusion, or ambiguity, or not deciding one way or the other, or just admitting that I'm gay and come out and proud. I think that this country spends to much time trying to legislate morality and values, and I think that as long as you are true to yourself and do not harm other people by your choices, we can probably evolved into a more tolerant society. (yes I can hope and wish)

[dportrait]

.... Take heart everyone this study debunked itself.

1) The scientific team acknowledged that 2 participants in the study showed that they were equally attracted to images of men/men and men/women.

2) 25 participants failed to respond to any of the videos (crappy videos?). This meant they weren't bi? What did it mean.

3) Bisexuals tend to enjoy unique erotica not standard gay. The particpants were only shown girl/girl, man/man vids. Anyone see a problem with that.


Yup, I couldn't agree more... a classic case of ignoring the data and writing the conclusion before doing the experiment. Thats not science, thats propaganda.

[allwet]

There are many shades of grey between black and white.
I'm Bi, I'm one of them.

[*pan*]

this idiot it typical of someone who thinks he knows it all, if he can't have both feelings equaly for men and woman then noone else can. remmember thoes that forget history are doomed to repeat it so i say sigmond freud or how ever you spell his name was considered an athourthy on the human mind and some unenlighted pshchitrists still quote him. in fact he was sicker then the individuals he tried to treat and anyone who has done any study on the subject knows this. so this guy did a study and came out with his hypothithsis which is a conclusion or in common language his opinion. well the old saying still goes, opinions are like assholes and everyone has one. i know better and don't get upset when a so called intelegent person makes an opinion that goes outside reality and common sense. but not trying to say anything against gays, i have seen more biases within that sector then in the bisexual community, therefore maby he is biased because of his gay orientation, although i know a lot of gays that live and let live with bisexuals.like i said in a previous post on this subject, it's really not worth the time and effort to even comment on it but i see my self doing it again lol

[Bi-Zarro]

The "Gay Straight or Lying" article is discussed (and debunked) in the Bisexuality Issue of Nerve, found here:

http://www.nerve.com/specialissues/bisexuality/

Other interesting stuff there too. (Sorry if this has already been mentioned, I didn't see it in the archives.)

[gurlydon]

As a former psychotherapist with a doctorate in therapy, as a social scientist with comprehension of the rigor of science (when applied correctly), and as a former "exclusively heterosexual" male I have to say that almost no studies of anything in social science are worth the paper they are printed on. Especially studies of sexuality. Social Science is inherently subject to error and bias. As a man who has moved from exclusive heterosexuality to something approaching exclusive homosexuality I can say from an empirical perspective that only those of us who are experiencing the reality of our personal sexuality can remark accurately on it. Social scientists acknowledge that they can't ever achieve the accuracy of pure science or pure mathematics, but they constantly claim their work is important. I never found it so, not even when I did my own research.

If you like men here and there mixed with women here and there, even if you find you are emotionally attached and having love feelings (a whole other topic!), or if you are exclusively homo- or hetero- instead of bi-sexual, don't be disturbed by the academics. The first thing I learned in matriculating in a doctoral program was that the academic faculty was ignorant of nearly everything that wasn't its speciality and was biased to incredible degrees within and without its specialties.

Look to your inner experience. Forget what "scientists" say.

[muzhroom]

What I find so disturbing is how judgemental Gays are with Bisexual people when the Gays are so desperately seeking equality and for straights not to Judge them.

My wife and I were visiting in Denver and by mistake went to a lesbian bar, my wife is bisexual and when she told one of the ladies who was hitting on her she was bi, about 6 of them wanted to jump my wife and give her a good beating. Luckily I was with her and they backed off. They were mad as hell that a bisexual was in their bar. They did not like it either that straight guy (me) was in their bar.

What is the difference in those lesbians and homophobic straights? Why is it anyone else's business what one's sexual orientation is. Why should people have to worry about appeasing opinions. Live and let Live... If you don't agree then go fuck yourself and maybe you should give live in Saudi.

[Ritchie 48]

Here Here Gurlydon I am who i am and i don't need some guy with a white coat labeling me ,so i couldn't agree more. No if i could ever get my wife to agree with me .......

[JimInSD]

In my limited experience, straights want us to be "straight" and gays wish us to come out as "homosexual" I am neither, I appreciate and am attracted to members of both pursuits. Has anyone else ever had people trying to put you in either camp?

[dizzychainsaw]

A gay male co-worker of mine told me that "you are either gay, straight, or slutty". That was a little offensive. Another guy I know said that women can be bi but men can't. He said that women "get drunk and start making out" but men don't. What a hypocrite!:2cents:

[clovermoon]

There are no gay people just straights that haven't come out yet.:tong:

[Mobydick187]

My gay best friend doesn't really understand my sexuality, he thinks I'm gay but I tell him time and time again that I enjoy both sexes equally. It's a bit frustrating

[BiCycler]

Wow! I just read through all the posts in this thread and part 1 as well after reading both parts I and II of the article. All sorts of discussion took place in my head as I was reading (things I wanted to type here). In my experience, men, or at least this man, can be bisexual. I am bisexual. I enjoy and am stimulated by women and men. Call that what you want, it's all semantics. Physically, I'm a male. I was born that way and I had no choice. I like being a man. My "confusion" consisted of not understanding the pendulum swings I experienced in regards to my arousal. For some period of time, I'd find myself attracted to women, at other times to men. I never really knew when the swings would take place. They just would. Until I let go of the common notion that things are black or white, on or off, I did not understand my own sexuality. I told people, I was bisexual. I think I now understand that bisexuality. I no longer soul search for what is "wrong" with me. I too have experienced reprehension from gay and lesbian people. One lesbian friend told me she didn't believe in bisexuality. I was stunned at first, but am beginning to understand that people are egocentric in their world view. The old, 'I see the world like this so why doesn't everyone else', thing. I know I must have my biases too. As for the arrogance to suggest that people don't know themselves and therefor must be lying if they say they are bisexual is ridiculous and close minded. I'm very lucky to have friends, who are gay, lesbian or straight that accept me, want to be around me and know all about me. To the point, I know. I am very troubled that my gay and lesbian friends who tell me there is no such thing as bisexuality are themselves members of society that experience prejudice and judgment and hatred for who they are. I can not understand how people that experience such things and stand up for their right to be who they are can also be so close minded.

[elduderino]

I read about this study at a very vulnerable time, and it definitely influenced me, probably in a harmful way. I had always questioned every aspect of my sexuality, and the very idea of sex made me terribly anxious. I was obsessed with the possibility that i could be gay, and in denial, and for some reason, i was complete TERRIFIED of it. I had all the symptoms of Homosexual Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and every second of my social life was permeated by fear. I had admitted to myself that I had homosexual fantasies, but i was still holding onto the idea that i was not at all homosexual, and that all of these fantasies had logical explanations other than me being bi or gay - because i want to have sex with women not to PROVE anything but because women genuinely arouse me, gay porn does not turn me on, and I cannot get aroused solely from watching hot random guys. Then I realized that my gayness has a certain emotional component that porn cannot simulate, and that was a huge breakthrough, but i still identified solely as bicurious, and while i told almost EVERYONE THIS (i don't know why, because i wasn't comfortable with it) - i still had all of the same Homosexual Obessessive Compulsive Disorder symptoms. I even told some people that I was just completely gay, and yet I still had the same symptoms around them. Then I read this article and it totally shattered my identity because it was always my worst fear that I was maybe lying to myself, or that someone would accuse me of being a liar, even though I wasn't lying about anything, but here it said in one of the biggest newspapers YOU"RE LYING, SHAME ON YOU. So I tried in vain to fuck every male that moved, and these forced sexual experiences were humiliating and unsatisfying because the emotional component was not there. I've never had that emotional connection with a male that felt the same way towards me (not since i was a child), but i know that I am capable of achieving that and I would like to, I just haven't met the right guy. However, I have had these emotional experiences with women, and I enjoy sex with women, plain and simple. The sexual based OCD symptoms have definitely lessened since my homosexual experiences, but I have learned that just because some asshole from Harvard did a study that says you like males exclusively doesn't mean its true. Besides - technically I fall into the "confused straight male" category because I only like straight porn, but I have wild gay fantasies and I don't need some scientist's validation for them, and anyone who disagrees with this reasoning is judgemental and not worth being friends with anyway.

[roy m cox]

"oh god" i must be a real oddball cuzz eversinse i was really young i have always been turned on by both sexes ,,
i have dated men and women and love every one of them =
i am very happy with my boyfriend i am dating now he knows i am BI and he wants me to get a girl friend to just as long as she'll love and take care of me as he duzz ,, so i just don't get wear thou's doctors and people get this idea
that people are lying about liking both sexes cuzz i know i do and would love to have both at the same time if i could heh guess they are wrong heck id even go for a 4some or more for that mater :tongue::tongue::tongue:

but i am happy being 100% BISEXUAL and damn proud of it to....
:bipride::bipride::bipride::three::bipride::biprid e::bipride:

[ianelson]

There are many shades of grey between black and white.
I'm Bi, I'm one of them.
hello..guy....im bi..from phlippines...how are yah
hope u too see

[chucky5150]

Ok folks....this is my first posting. Both my wife and I are bi-sexual. Now let me give you my own personal definition of bi-sexual.....for what its worth.

We are both deeply committed to eachother. We have no desire to swing or include other partners in our lives or sexual activities. Neither of us desires to be with anyone else, opposite sex or same sex. Cheating is cheating. Neither of us feels we are missing out on anything by not playing with the same sex.

Both of us have been in extremely loving and comitted relationships with same sex partners, as well as opposite sex, prior to us meeting. We have seriously dated same sex partners as well as opposite. To both of us it is not the meat suit that houses the heart, brain, and soul of a person, but just those things that one falls in love with in a person. To us, the gender means nothing. People should be free to love who they fall in love with, regardless of gender, race, etc......

I truly believe that the majority of the population is afraid to feel this freedom based on the societal rules placed upon the by the MINORITY....the Straight Heterosexuals and the Straight Gays.

[halobeam]

To both of us it is not the meat suit that houses the heart, brain, and soul of a person, but just those things that one falls in love with in a person. To us, the gender means nothing. People should be free to love who they fall in love with, regardless of gender, race, etc......


well said...my girlfriend and I are both bisexuals (both female) and we are in committed relationships to each other. My gf never had male partner and she is my first girlfriend and I have fallen deeply in love that I would love to marry her (don't tell her that yet). I think some also confuse act of sex with sexuality, any virgin can be bi, gay, lesbian, hetero etc...they don't have to have sex to know what their sexuality is...I am glad I never read such stories before coming out or when i was trying to come out after coming out to myself...it would have made it very complicated and difficult. I am glad I was welcomed by gays and lesbians as well as my family...these stories will really closet bisexuals...

[RIKKIDLTN]

I'm definitely bi. No confusion. No lies. I'm probably a K-2, but sometimes I feel like a K-3...;)

[Devildog78]

ERRR!!!!

I am so sick of Gay people dismissing my Bisexuality!!! For that reason, all my friends are STRAIGHT and BI with the exception of one.

I just makes me want to Yell...I have been questioned countless times, had numerous Gay men tell me I was just going through a phase, etc, since I was 15 years old. I am now in my 30s and I am still Bisexual!

I'm at the point where I want the B in GLBTIA taken out. So fucking tired of being lumped into this Subculture where Sexuality engenders Ethnicity and this absurd sense of Minority Discrimination and Leftist Politics....I'm not a part of it, never was, never will be.

Gays can have their little closed minded world, retreat to the Sexuality specific Social Centers and go jump off the same bridge at once for all I care.

I'm done with it and ever trying to come to terms with being a part of that culture and population!

Yes, I am an angry man...so what! :soapbox: Ha Ha Ha!

[Sparkling Diamond]

Nobody can decide about our inner selves for ouselves. I have read quite a lot about Bailey's experiment over the pat few years and I find it totally appaling. It reflects some biased people's mindset. It's as if someone told me I'm not left-handed, despite the obivous truth.
Sexual attraction cannot be measured at one setting, using very short video clips, with bodies shown that may not appeal to anyone. Personally, I feel a femme inside and my erection on men comes in only in special circumstances, when I am, for example, carressed, touched and when I see masculine guys wearing sexy clothes. But even then it's physically hardly pronounced. My reaction on female bodies would be more visible, but this doesn't make me any less bisexual than I am :flag2:
Attractions manifest themselves in different ways: I'd like sexual intimacy with a guy I'm emotionally and intelligently attracted to.

[bellaserra86]

hi everyone, new to the site, and well bisexuality. i find this thread so interesting!! and thank everyone for sharing their stories and thoughts!!! I am 24 years old and have liked men and men only. recently i have been attracted to a female friend of mine. Although this is very confusing to me, i feel like it is natrual. it is not a struggle for me to express my feelings to her, or in front of our mutual friends! I still find men attractive but she is the only woman!! wondering if this has ever happened to any other bi sexual people out there!!!!?

[Solar]

Well! I lived in nudist clubs for 11 years and although I sometimes liked CD and some other harmless whatnot, after a few years, I started noticing that some guys had nice dicks and wow!
On more than one occasion, my wife and I were offered sexual liasions with other couples. I was flattered but my wife was insulted.
One night however.... I was DJ'ing a party and there was a couple parked next to us that were totally inebriated. I was stone cold sober, having worked all night. Long story short, they ended up in our RV, where all kinds of debauchery ensued. While the gentleman present was impaling my wife, I decided to test the waters of bisexuality. I used my tongue to lubricate his penis as it slid in and out of her vagina.
This confirmed my bisexuality to me. I didn't like the hair, I remember that! I enjoyed it immensely as did my wife. We both cemented the fact that we were both bisexual and we kissed on it.
I am proud and not shy to be bisexual, because that is what I am, but it could get you killed in our present society,including my dad! So, still in the closet!

[tsmvb45]

I think that Mr. Bailey does not know what he is talking about because he can't prove what people feel. I think he making some noise so he can write another book so he can get a few more bucks. He can't tell me how I feel. I have been attracted by both Men & Women for a long time. I just have'nt always acted on it because I have'ent be able to find a Bi-Sexual yet. I usualy hook up with str8 Women like I am at this time.

[swmnkdinthervr]

“What troubles me is Bailey's implicit assumption that he can answer this very personal matter for other people.

That's a very telling statement and what is even more troubling is apparently the good "Doctor Bailey, former head of Psychology" doesn't recognize the codependency of his assumptions!!!