Too far with Racism? [Archive]

rmorti

Sep 16, 2007, 9:01 AM

If anyone else here loves the gaming industry, you will no doubt know of the upcoming Resident evil 5 on Xbox+Ps3. It looks amazing and is just like Resident evil 4, people get infected with rage (a lot like 28 days/weeks later) and try to kill you. Its a step up from the slow moving original Zombies in all the other ones up to now.
Heres a link to a trailer incase you want to see it yourself before reading the next part of the issue http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILuP43jcaXw
The issue that seems to have popped up is the game is attempting to be racist on the sly, the basic idea that you are a white guy shooting black people. To be honest I think it shows how pathetic some people are to slam down the race card, no one had a problem with shooting "white" zombies in the originals and no one batted an eyelid that you were fighting spanish people with rage in resi 4, its simply because hes in that country on the mission.
Some sad person even stated its capcom attempt to affect children and make them hate black people?? They have nothing agains't race, I mean come on he is in africa hence the people are black?? they are infected so you fight for your life..its a game. why are people trying so hard to slam down this race card at every oppertunity?
50 Cents game you were in New york shooting people and being gangster, and the "evil" people were powerful white buisness men...no one batted an eyelid because we know its not racism its just a game.
There have been previous issues too, Hitman 2 had a level where you had to assassinate and person of sikh religion because he was bribed by mob gangs and was trading drugs etc, the level consisted of you having to assassinate him and of course he had indian bodyguards, it got removed from the game for "racism" and they had to recall and remove that level? The whole game you have different missions, russia, china etc no one cared for that?
I just think its disgraceful that people try to slam the race card down on something like this. I just think it makes some people in the world seem so pathetic.

darkeyes

Sep 16, 2007, 9:32 AM

I am not a game player, and dont know this game. But the problem with games, and indeed, television drama and film is not that there are bad guys who are racially different from the good guys, its the fact that they are generally portrayed in a very one dimensional way, hence feeding our prejudice and perpetuating our way of looking at the world.

Too often games film and televisual drama is merely made to make money, and often in fact betray the beliefs and prejudices of the makers. They are not social events in the sense that they are not made to make us think. They are often made, especially in times of conflict to bring out our jingoistic and national fervour..get us marching down the street an support of king and country.

Well I for one dont buy into this. I am much too sceptical of the whole entertainment industry. It has a responsibility to its shareholders sure (I suppose), arguably to its state of origin (but I am doubtful of this) but most of all to the consumer, to produce something which portrays people in other than sterotype..more well rounded, better drawn characterisation of both or all sides. Acceptance that not all is good here and bad elsewhere.. the world isnt like that.. I cant say bout games.. its not my thing.. but about fim and television I can.. besides... as far as I can see it makes better drama in any case.. but then.. with ever shorter attention spans in these modern times..I suppose shoot em ups an the destruction all non white anglo saxon non christian sterotypes sells.. doesnt make it right though....

Its all a condemnation of the entertainment industry in the world we live.

Skater Boy

Sep 16, 2007, 11:07 AM

I agree with Rmorti... just because a fictional person (or villain) happens to be of a particular race or creed, etc) does not mean we should immediately scream "racism!".

darkeyes

Sep 16, 2007, 12:06 PM

We had this 2 sum extent ova the "jap" barney... no it aint necessarily racism..but if its dun wiv the intention of showin wot yummie peeps a is at the xpense of the dignity of b or c or d... an it aint thot out rite..an is imbalanced..accusation of racism can b justifiably made...

Ole westerns wer racist cos they put forward pointa view that whie folks wer the goodies, ole war film that germans an japanese an italians wer baddies, ole historical epics that the english, the french, the british, the indian (not native american) or chinese, or wheoeva wer thoughtless nasty murderin arseholes... its the one dimensionality of it..similarly in games from my limited experience of em, is that this can be argued 2 be racist. Its thotless an can breed bigotry...it mite or mite notta been the intention, but thats the end result...

Thought for the day...

Skater Boy

Sep 16, 2007, 12:31 PM

The difference is the CONTEXT, imo. Westerns and War movies are based (to some extent) on real-life events, so understandably media texts that use these events as main themes may need to be careful about the messages they give. Whereas ZOMBIES (as featured in this particular computer game) are totally fictitious creatures, and so there is less social relevance to the text, unless one starts interpreting meanings in a less literal fashion.

But, as always, "intent" is important too.

Herbwoman39

Sep 16, 2007, 1:50 PM

As with Fran, I know nothing about this game franchise. But if you think about it, instead of being "racist" wouldn't this actually be more of an equalizer? In the game (according to rmorti) Mexicans and Caucasians were infected. Now Africans have been infected. *I* see this as inclusive, meaning that were all human, all the same, all susceptible to the same things in life.

On the other end of the spectrum, just because something isn't "politically correct" doesn't mean that it should instantly be squashed. We've lost SO many wonderful films and artwork ("Song of the South, for one) because of the Race Card. It's just a story, just as this is just a game.

No one is *really* going to get the idea that it's okay to shoot black people. Heck no one got the idea that it's okay to shoot white or latinopeople, so why would this be any different?

Doggie_Wood

Sep 16, 2007, 2:11 PM

I totally agree rmorti, the racism card gets played way way too much and I have seen so many times that many of those who play that card are, themselves, very racist.
As far as being racist in the game, bullshit!! It's only a game for pete's sake.
And I wonder how many game designers that worked on this game project weren't white???

darkeyes

Sep 16, 2007, 2:26 PM

I don think yas accusin me of playin the racist card ere Doggie, or of bein racist.. since me wos only pointin out how I c the dangers of sum games, films an telly drama. Not all, but a lot, espesh in days gone by... it still exists, an we shud b careful of it... an nowadays its usually dressed up jus that bit more subtly than in days fore me wos even thotta!

It may b only a game Doggie hun.. but so wer many of the films produced by Nazi Germany "only a film".. so is much of the telly produced in many less savoury regimes "only drama"... we know in reality much of it aint.. jus sayin producers shud b careful bout how they portray people, of woteva colour, of woteva nationality or creed...

rmorti

Sep 17, 2007, 7:39 AM

I can see the point that people who slam down the race card, sometimes tend to be the racist people themselves, mainly because its the first thing that crosses there mind.
Im not saying its true for everyone, but if you watch taht video and think racism automatically, then its obviously something that is on your mind primarily in general, I watched it and had no care for the skin colour, I just saw Chris redfield, in africa which happened to be the wrong place at the wrong time leading to fight off zombie like people and of course they will generally be black because he is in...well, in africa.
I just cant believe how over dramatic people can be sometimes. Good point with the nazi films, but I dont really think a game made by capcom can be compared to the nazi regime and propaganda.
I know society is far more touchy over race and beliefs as we are a lot more open minded and a lot more goes on with immigration etc, but to me this case just shows people will still get petty over anything they can sometimes.

rmorti

Sep 17, 2007, 8:04 AM

I just found something that to be honest is even more annoying. In the game they are going to incoporate a one bite your infected system on harder difficultys to make it even more challanging. A person has stated that this is a subtle hint at the on going AIDS epidemic in africa....
I'd just like to give them an immature and basic response such as "since when did AIDS make you undead and want to kill people"

Doggie_Wood

Sep 17, 2007, 8:32 AM

Wasn't accussin you at all Fran - and I somewhat agree with you about racism being more subtly displyed nowwa days. But peeps to the likes of All Sharptin and his cronies are as rmorti said, more racist than most cause it's the first thing that comes to mind for them. Biggotted assholes they be.

TaylorMade

Sep 17, 2007, 9:02 AM

Yeah, some people just want to holler racism for no good reason, and as an end result...no one listens when real racism is on display (Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, I'm looking at ya'll). THAT is what allows racism to continue. RE ain't racist.

*Taylor*

Sarasvati

Sep 21, 2007, 6:10 PM

Skater Boy

Sep 21, 2007, 6:22 PM

Simulated mass murder, entertainment?

Sorry don't begin to understand the appeal - whatever the description of the victim.

My fucking rant now - people who get off in this way are from a different race to me, a race I want nothing to do with. So there you go, I am a racist. Yeah sure it's only a game - for sickened brains. What the hell is the thrill?

The inhumanity of man to man is, tragically, THE outstanding feature of human history. The voluminous trail of cruelty, blood and tears drips from the shelves of every library. And all of us have ancestors who are, somewhere along the line, guilty.

And I ask, why? Why more of this sorrow and suffering? Even if only a game, what is the thrill of simulating the destruction of life?

It is in oppositon to that feature that I wish to live in my stumbling, imperfect way.

The challenge is to find ways for humanity to satisfy individual aspirations without resort to violence and cruelty.

Tragically, there is a human lust for cruelty that these ideotic games help to feed. I detest this lust and feel contempt (and dread) towards those many who find entertainment in the suffering, real or imaginary, of others.

What happens in such limp minds when they've given up tossing their toys?

I think the concept behind the video game is that the "zombies" are no longer human and, being hostile, pose a threat to humanity itself. therefore, by destrying them, one helps to preserve humanity.

But I have to admit, I've never played the game, and know very little about it other than what Rmorti has told us. I don't like video games, violent or otherwise.

That said, isn't it preferable that those who do have an urge to relieve certain frustrations do so in a surreal way rather than a real one?

AdamKadmon43

Sep 21, 2007, 11:06 PM

Simulated mass murder, entertainment?

Sorry don't begin to understand the appeal - whatever the description of the victim.

My fucking rant now - people who get off in this way are from a different race to me, a race I want nothing to do with. So there you go, I am a racist. Yeah sure it's only a game - for sickened brains. What the hell is the thrill?

The inhumanity of man to man is, tragically, THE outstanding feature of human history. The voluminous trail of cruelty, blood and tears drips from the shelves of every library. And all of us have ancestors who are, somewhere along the line, guilty.

And I ask, why? Why more of this sorrow and suffering? Even if only a game, what is the thrill of simulating the destruction of life?

It is in oppositon to that feature that I wish to live in my stumbling, imperfect way.

The challenge is to find ways for humanity to satisfy individual aspirations without resort to violence and cruelty.

Tragically, there is a human lust for cruelty that these ideotic games help to feed. I detest this lust and feel contempt (and dread) towards those many who find entertainment in the suffering, real or imaginary, of others.

What happens in such limp minds when they've given up tossing their toys?

I think that I love you, Sarasvati....

I could not have put that any better myself. I despise all those sorts of dark sides of human nature that cause us to enjoy such horrid means of entertainment. I rarely watch television or movies because I do not care to see people get shot, stabbed, blown up, de-capitated, or otherwise subjected to mean and cruel sorts of treatment.

To take delight in watching other creatures suffer and die, even in fantasy, is much too difficult of an experience for me. One would think that we should have had enough evolution and refinement by now to have gotten past all that and take no joy in it.

But I think that Skater Boy is right. Given the current state of human social developement, It is far, far better to have them play out that part of their primitive nature vicariously if they feel the need to, rather than act it out for real.

Adam

wanderingrichard

Sep 21, 2007, 11:09 PM

am glad i have a life that does not revolve around sitting on my ass for mindless hours on end pushing buttons as a form of entertainment, no matter what the game is... as i recall, this also happened with grand theft auto and several other games, my younger co workers tell me, all of which may be just a pathetic marketing ploy to overcome so so sales to teeners turned 22 who still haven't grown up. [ one coworkers description of her 3, younger, brothers, she's 35]

bottom line,for me: racism is where you find it. on the street, in the office, in your video game. try as we might, and some of us do try very hard, it's always going to be there.. never accept it, always do your part to fight it.

brunette

Sep 21, 2007, 11:33 PM

wow, i have never heard anyone say these things about video games! i love them, my husband works at a gaming store, and we even spend several hours a week playing them together.

i find it odd that a thread about racism in video games got hijacked into a no-holds-barred lambasting of them. i don't like feet, but i didn't move into those threads and criticize someone else's personal preferences.

as for the racism, it's crap. i remember when they said that sports games were racist because some of the black players had lower stats that some of the white players, when the stats on those games are based in reality. and on top of that, most of the athletes that excel in the "video game worthy" games are black.

i asked a fellow black gamer about this, and he said he didn't care...so...power to the players!

coyotedude

Sep 22, 2007, 12:40 AM

One of coyote's rules of life:

If someone is (overly) sensitive, there's probably a pretty good reason for it.

That is, you tend to flinch at anything flying by when you've got a big ol' bullseye painted on your back.

That's not just about race, either. We bisexuals (even those who are white) are also sensitive to the slings and barbs of society.

"That's not true!" you say. Okay, so tell me: how many of you are willing to go to your busiest local park this weekend with a shirt that reads "I Am Bisexual"?

How about wearing that same shirt to the next family holiday gathering? (For Americans, how about Thanksgiving?) And if your family goes to church, how about wearing that shirt to the next Sunday service?

"Hell, no!" most of you exclaim. (Although I know a few of you are crazy enough to do it.)

So tell me: why not?

Hmmm....

Are we as bisexuals really that different from people of color who are sensitive - or even hypersensitive - about race?

"That's different!" you say. "We have reason!"

Undoubtedly we do have reason to be sensitive. But so do people of color. Although it may be hard to understand for those who have never felt the sting of racism in their own lives.

(And if you're bisexual and not white.... well, there's a double whammy for you!)

This particular game may or may not be racist; people may or may not be hypersensitive. But I'm not going to completely slam someone for being sensitive, even if the concern is ultimately ill-founded.

Peace

AdamKadmon43

Sep 22, 2007, 1:15 AM

Okay, so tell me: how many of you are willing to go to your busiest local park this weekend with a shirt that reads "I Am Bisexual"?

How about wearing that same shirt to the next family holiday gathering? (For Americans, how about Thanksgiving?) And if your family goes to church, how about wearing that shirt to the next Sunday service?
So tell me: why not?

Here's why not...

BECAUSE IT IS NO ONE ELSE'S BUSINESS what I do in the privacy of my bedroom.

And for the most part, these days, they most probably do not really care and they will most probably leave you alone if you will quit sticking it in their face.

Adam

DiamondDog

Sep 22, 2007, 2:34 AM

Long Duck Dong

Sep 22, 2007, 6:55 AM

Simulated mass murder, entertainment?

Sorry don't begin to understand the appeal - whatever the description of the victim.

My fucking rant now - people who get off in this way are from a different race to me, a race I want nothing to do with. So there you go, I am a racist. Yeah sure it's only a game - for sickened brains. What the hell is the thrill?

The inhumanity of man to man is, tragically, THE outstanding feature of human history. The voluminous trail of cruelty, blood and tears drips from the shelves of every library. And all of us have ancestors who are, somewhere along the line, guilty.

And I ask, why? Why more of this sorrow and suffering? Even if only a game, what is the thrill of simulating the destruction of life?

It is in oppositon to that feature that I wish to live in my stumbling, imperfect way.

The challenge is to find ways for humanity to satisfy individual aspirations without resort to violence and cruelty.

Tragically, there is a human lust for cruelty that these ideotic games help to feed. I detest this lust and feel contempt (and dread) towards those many who find entertainment in the suffering, real or imaginary, of others.

What happens in such limp minds when they've given up tossing their toys?

gee nice to know that cos I play games that I am sick and twisted

so now we have sick and twisted people playing racist games ??????

see just how attitude creates the issue......

the game is a simple fantasy rp game.... yet attitude towards it and the people that play it, have given us people that are sick and twisted racists....

yet... how many of the people in this forum have met me and actually know me..... ??? one person !!!!!

but that person knows that I am anything but racist....and that I am definitely not a sick and twisted individual.... I am a person that plays a fantasy game

know us before you judge us

dafydd

Sep 22, 2007, 9:05 AM

Here's why not...

BECAUSE IT IS NO ONE ELSE'S BUSINESS what I do in the privacy of my bedroom.

And for the most part, these days, they most probably do not really care and they will most probably leave you alone if you will quit sticking it in their face.

Adam

Although Adam, for some people their sexuality is not just what they do in the privacy of their bedroom. I think that being gay forces u to adopt a different public identity. Straight people take their sexuality for granted, don't realise how much it impacts on their life. When you go against the grain you see just how impossible it is to keep your sex life separate from your daily experience. I can't do it. It feeds into everything I do. I wonder if anybody is better at this?

D:flag4:

AdamKadmon43

Sep 22, 2007, 5:48 PM

Although Adam, for some people their sexuality is not just what they do in the privacy of their bedroom.
D:flag4:

Yeah, You might be right.

For something that people spend so little time actually doing, they sure seem to spend inordinate amounts of time thinking about it, talking about it, discussing it, debating it, chasing after it, worrying about it, getting in trouble because of it, and generally stressing out over it.

I am most probably just missing something.

Adam

darkeyes

Sep 22, 2007, 7:26 PM

ya r Adam..men don spend 2 much time at it.... wy else dya think me gave em up apart from lil fact that the alternative is altogtha yummier!!!

AdamKadmon43

Sep 22, 2007, 10:13 PM

ya r Adam..men don spend 2 much time at it...

Au contraire, Darkeyes..... Once I get started, it goes on for hours and hours and hours.

It is all that other time in between that I was referring to.

Let me try and clarify my point..... For every hour that people actually spend engaging in sex, they probably spend an additional 40 or so hours talking about it, thinking about it, discussing it, etc., etc., etc., blah, blah, blah.

Adam

AdamKadmon43

Sep 22, 2007, 10:24 PM

apart from lil fact that the alternative is altogtha yummier!!!

And I am not so sure that there is anything "yummier" about it.

To me, cocks taste just as good as vaginas do.

Bisexualnewbie

Sep 22, 2007, 11:24 PM

I don't think that America as a whole is racist, or even the world for that matter but I do agree that a few bad apples are spoiling the barrel.
I think that if Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would just leave alone and have a real job instead of inciting riot, the whole subject would go away. Yes of course there would still be the stupid ones out there, there will always be racism but as a whole the big deal would cease to exist.
I really look at Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson as a crime fighting duo sitting in the Race Cave for a call to come in that someone, somewhere in the US has said something derogatory..........Oh my god to the race mobile, we should get there and do some interviews for the news (who of which seem always to give them a soapbox to stand on for some reason).
The news media that is always on the lookout for a "story" needs to actually find stories worth some merit, like the 11yo boy that caught a pedophile in Walt Disney World or the good things that our soldiers are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

FalconAngel

Sep 23, 2007, 2:51 AM

The race card in this country almost always seems to be played by black comunity leaders (usually Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton). Here's an article that I got my hands on all about racism in this country. I'll let you all be the judge of the information. are we really racist or is it just a small minority trying to keep things stirred up for their own personal goals?

This is reposted from the Patriot Post Newsletter
(take into account that this is a conservative publication that I do not always agree with)

"White supremacists in the mainstream media

Earlier this year, I wrote a column titled (Murder in Black and White), which detailed the torture, gang-rape and murder of a young couple, Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom. Their five attackers—four men and a woman—dumped his battered body by a train track and threw her charred remains in a trash bin.

The point of that grim essay was to highlight the mainstream media’s disparate treatment of interracial crimes.

Indeed, there are some 17,000 murders committed in the U.S. each year, but this double murder was clearly far more barbaric, far more monstrous than most. Yet it never made a headline more than 20 miles from the crime scene—not on NPR, not on CNN or the networks, not in The Washington Post, not in The New York Times.

Was the MSM’s lack of interest in this case race related, given that the two victims were white and the five defendants are black?

Yes.

How do I know?

Consider this case in point: Last week, six white West Virginia lowlifes were charged with the kidnapping, torture and sexual assault of a 20-year-old black woman, Megan Williams. This was a brutal crime, to be sure, but Megan Williams is alive today, having been rescued by local sheriff’s deputies. Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom, as we know, were not nearly so fortunate.

Within 24 hours of the arrests in the West Virginia case, stories were headlined on CNN, The Washington Post, The New York Times—even the BBC—and numerous reports have been filed subsequently.

Was the MSM’s acute interest in this case race related?

Yes.

In fact, no sooner had Williams’s attackers been arrested than the FBI and federal prosecutors joined the investigation to determine if the victim’s civil rights were violated, or if her assault qualified as a “hate crime.”

To this day, however, searches of the massive news archives of CNN, The Washington Post and The New York Times for the names “Channon Christian” and “Christopher Newsome” render exactly zero references to their names in any news story—that’s nil, naught, zip and zilch.

There is nothing unusual about the racial component of the Christian and Newsom murders. Indeed, while blacks represent just 12 percent of the U.S. population, black perpetrators are convicted by their peers in more than half of all murder and manslaughter cases. In other words, per capita, black-on-white crime is far more prevalent than the inverse.

However, the contrast in how the MSM reported these two cases betrays a prevalent white-supremacist mindset among liberal journalistic scribes.

By discounting the newsworthiness of black-on-white crime such as the murders of Christian and Newsom, and at the same time trumpeting the newsworthiness of white-on-black crime such as the assault on Williams, the MSM is, in effect, insisting that white people should be held to a higher standard than black people. In doing so, the MSM is essentially saying, “It isn’t news when blacks prey on whites, because we expect them to behave like vicious animals, but it is headline news when whites prey on blacks, because we expect whites to be more civilized.”

Additional evidence of this underlying media hypocrisy is substantiated through the MSM’s coverage of race-baiting opportunists who inject themselves into racially charged criminal cases.

For example, if a racially motivated hate group like the KKK showed up to protest on behalf of white defendants in a white-on-black crime, they would rightfully be skewered by the media. However, when racially motivated haters like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson show up to protest on behalf of defendants in a black-on-white crime, they are canonized as civil rights saviors.

In fact, this week Sharpton and Jackson, with more than ten thousand of their ilk in tow, swamped the small town of Jena, Louisiana, to protest charges against six black youths (the so-called “Jena Six”) for brutally beating and stomping a white classmate—charges that were reduced from attempted murder to aggravated battery.

“You cannot have justice meted out based on who you are rather than what you did,” Sharpton argues, implying that because the defendants in Jena are black, and there was racial tension among the youths, the charges are unjust. “This is the most blatant example of disparity in the justice system that we’ve seen. You can’t have two standards of justice.” (Unless, of course, you consider Sharpton’s fabrication of the Tawana Brawley rape hoax a “blatant example of disparity in the justice system.”)

According to Jackson, “Across this country, there are two justice systems—one for blacks and one for whites. Black young men are not more likely to commit crimes than whites, but they are more likely to be stopped by police, more likely to be arrested if stopped, more likely to be charged if arrested, more likely to be jailed if convicted, more likely to be charged with felonies and more likely to be tried and imprisoned as adults.”

Actually, black youth are far more likely to commit crimes than white youth, and for that reason they are more likely to be stopped by police (including black police officers), more likely to be arrested and, if charged, convicted (often by black-majority juries).

District Attorney Reed Walters refuted the claims of Sharpton and Jackson, saying, “This case has been portrayed by the news media (emphasis added) as being about race and the fact that it takes place in a small Southern town lends itself to that portrayal, but it is not and never has been about race. It is about finding justice for an innocent victim and holding people accountable for their actions.”

It is worth noting that neither Jackson nor Sharpton offered a word of sympathy for the actual assault victim.

Remarkably, Jackson complains, “This isn’t just a Southern problem. A study of five states in the Northwest and Midwest showed that blacks are incarcerated at ten times the rate of whites.”

Indeed, this is not “just a Southern problem,” but, in fact, a cultural problem. Too many black men do not take responsibility for themselves or their families, in part because racists like Jackson and Sharpton have inculcated black folks with the notion that they are “victims” of white folks.

Of course, since Jackson fathered a child out of wedlock with an aide (and then paid her $40,000 from his “nonprofit” Rainbow/PUSH Coalition for “moving expenses”), he is not really in a position to advocate for responsible fatherhood.

Hoping that the Louisiana “injustice” will jumpstart racial strife across the nation, Jackson insists, “In Jena, the protest will begin, but it won’t end there. This situation is explosive—not only in Jena but across the country.”

Meanwhile, back in West Virginia, the NAACP has arrived on the scene to “monitor” justice in the Williams case, and no doubt Sharpton and Jackson will follow.

However, still no word on when “journalists” at NPR, CNN, The Washington Post and The New York Times will headline the torture, gang-rape and murder of Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom. "

So, is racism real or just kept alive by others with their own adjenda?

darkeyes

Sep 23, 2007, 7:59 AM

And I am not so sure that there is anything "yummier" about it.

To me, cocks taste just as good as vaginas do.

An ther Adam babes...we differ.... jus the way we r made... nowt 2 fall out ova is it??:tong:

rmorti

Sep 23, 2007, 9:02 AM

Ally Kat

Sep 23, 2007, 9:05 AM

no fran, Falcon is exactly right , this may not be how it is in Scotland, but this is 100% how it goes over here

darkeyes

Sep 23, 2007, 9:27 AM

God ally...u arguin wiv me??? tee hee... our 1st fite.. withdrew wot me sed not cos it rong but cos me gonna cum up wiv summat more well thought out... gonna ponder a bit... x

Long Duck Dong

Sep 23, 2007, 11:25 AM

well the forum deffinetly changed to drastic levels of how gamers are sick twisted people. So I find it fun to shoot people, (whatever race,cause etc) aliens, zombies, monsters so what? the only reason I enjoy it, and even in some cases find it "fun" is because its only a game. I know I will never do anything like this in real life, I know that race is not a matter, its just the situation the person is in.
Someone said this point "I watched the video and just thought it looked like a brilliant game, I didn't even pick up on the fact that the people were black".
Thats exactly how I felt I saw a brilliant game of an amazing series doing what it does best, new techniques, weapons etc, It didnt even occur to me the colour of the skin and then boom, someone decides to slam down a pathetic race card.
If it helps people grasp even more, the game is made by capcom and a japanese director, and generaly its understood that they dont care for race as their up bringing does not really get exposed to racism. I know that does not apply for everyone in the country etc, but compared to the issues of the western culture, they just do their job and go home.
its just as bad as when people say "oh my son killed him because he got the idea off that terrible game". errr not quite, that son killed him because of a terrible upbringing and missing morales, I have played such awful games by peoples standards, e.g Manhunt, Silent hill etc. I just have common sense to know its a game, and its my chance for escapism, had a bad day at work, bad relationship break up anything, I know I can switch on my console, slap in a game and get emerged into something and escape my lifes issues and enjoy it!
Check silent hill 5 and that game looks "disgusting, horrible, awful" I think it looks like an amazing game taking gamers toa new level of fantasy and release.
Basically, games are games, anyone who attempts to be so pathetic and say they are the cause of violence, racism etc needs to realise its the person that played it that had the issue, whether it was a disorder or upbringing.
Sorry but thats my view.

I can't agree with you more

the current trend of blaming something or somebody for our actions is not new
its just that now we have a wider range of things to blame
but what a lot of people fail to see, is that the same patterns of human behievour existed before video games......

was alexander the great was influenced by playing civilization

maybe hitler played resident evil

its possible that some of the worlds greatest racing drivers started by playing need for speed...

lol somehow I don't think so lol

but when I saw the remark about sick and twisted people getting a kick outta shooting zombies, I knew that the person have never played resident evil and knows nothing about the game......

the game is not about shooting zombies, the shooting is a part of the game.....but what about the rping aspect, the puzzle solving, the clue solving.....etc etc etc...... something that us sick and twisted people enjoy as part of the game

maybe the person needs to sit down and realise that I play a game where I travel mystical worlds and have to fight minotaurs, dryads, sea creatures etc etc etc.... surely that makes me a sick and twisted person that is racist against non existent mythical creatures....

hell.... maybe people that fantasy during sex, are sick and twisted people that evilly plot sinister deeds like threesomes and couple sex....

lol.... like many gamers, I play games.... and thats all they are.... games, simple fantasy things......no harm to anybody.....

but hey we all know what happened to the famous and well loved noddy books

Skater Boy

Sep 23, 2007, 11:54 AM

Its always the weaker members of society that are most easily influenced. Whether that be by a video game, music, or movies. I guess the question is whether the weaker members of society should be protected from unhealthy influences. But then we get into the whole debate about who exactly is weak, what "weak" entails, and what "unhealthy influence" is.

Statistically, there is no solid proof that the media has a direct influence over is receivers. But I think we all know that just because its not proven doesn't mean its not true. And you don't have to look far to see the media's influence over society- even on supposedly healthy adults.

Personally, I feel that prohibiting violent and controversial imagery within the media is not really justified... I don't think that the small minority who commit media-related crimes warrant a total banning, and I'm not even sure that a total banning would solve the problem.

But apparently there is some eveidence that young people are easily influenced by the media, so I think rigid enforcement of age restrictions on certain games and media texts is justified, IMO.

:2cents:

Sarasvati

Sep 23, 2007, 1:47 PM

News Flash: Noddy trounces Resident Evil with his Big Ears.
Long live naivity, innocence, the Timid and the Simple.

One of the most monumental works in the English language is Christopher Marlowe's 16th Century play Tamburlaine The Great!

In this work, Marlowe feeds the depravity of his audience with an orgy of bloody violence as he recalls the terrifying legend of the Tartarian farmer Timur Tamburlaine (who was absolutely terrifying if you read the histories of him) who comes from a lowly station in life and overturns the standing order of life as he crushes the great empires of the day.

Eventually Tamburlaine's temporal power becomes so great that he challenges God directly by sending innocent souls en masse to hell!

But Marlowe's play, which is as brutal as any work you can think of, does not ultimately glorify that depravity but instead condemns it, in crushing fashion, as he shows starkly, at the end of the play, the grim folly of daring to challenge God.

It's important and vital that creative works of all descriptions (including video games) address the ghastlier sides of life as without them we have no hope of any progression at all. Yet such works need to follow the guidance of Marlowe in aiding the audience to think through the issues at stake - and not merely dull the senses with tedious imbecile-fodder!

Sorry but moron culture is immensely dangerous, empty minds are so easily manipulated by self serving tyrants - and the main affect of these games is to dope the senses and dull the head (and make unscupulous people very rich).

I do not advocate censorship (except in a limited sense) but I do believe in a great need for discussion. Is that a problem for you?

Threads like this one naturally stir up fierce opinions and that is the value of them. They provide an opportunity for people to confront uncomfortable issues that exercise us in our day.

(darkeyes I feel you would have been better to keep the post you removed even at the risk of upsetting a friend. You are not hung by the ideas you express, they can be altered, changed, restructured or indeed maintained. Why can we not have friends with whom we have profound disagreements at times).

In stating my positions strongly I understand that some will feel agitated as a consequence - but quite rightly, those who've felt skewered by my words, are entitled to retort by stating their own position - as indeed they have done. Yet at that very moment, the needle of dispute allows for the possibility of progression.

While people stand back from a confrontation, and pat each other on the back in the hope that those concerns will just disappear, the virus of real insanity can only grow.

If you wish to stay in the stands chewing the bagel then fine, do so - but others of us know that we must enter the Garden where the entangled confusion of thorns deprives us of the paradise that we could otherwise have.

izzfan

Sep 23, 2007, 2:36 PM

For heaven's sake.....it's just a game!!! :banghead:

Sorry, but all this controversy seems to me to be reading way too much into what is probably an entertaining [if slightly mindless] video game. Honestly, it seems that these days everything seems to 'offend' someone or other. As for the issue of race, several other people have pointed out that the game is set in Africa and also that in all the other resident evil games the zombies have been white - I think, if anything, it shows that the zombie virus in the games [t-virus?] does not discriminate on the grounds of race and infects everyone equally.... yes, now it seems that I am reading too much into what is basically just a fun horror game [I haven't played any resident evil since "Code Veronica" so I don't know how good the recent ones are].

Sarasvasti, I think you are being a bit melodramatic - as I said before ITS ONLY A GAME. If you're going to complain about videogames then I think that you should also criticise most art that has been produced, I think it was once said that all art is about sex or death. I'm a fan of horror films, games, books etc.. and I think in many ways violent videogames, films, novels etc... aren't necessarily a bad thing in themseleves as they allow people to safely explore the dark side of the human psyche, take out any anger they have etc... without harming anyone else.

Also I think you are forgetting that there is a difference between reality and fantasy. I mean, I think your comments about "man's inhumanity to man" are definately true - people can be really evil to other people, I mean just look in any newspaper for daily examples of this. It is a terrible thing but it has nothing to do with films/games etc...

However, most people can tell the difference between what is real [or based on reality - eg: films about real atrocities such as "Hotel Rwanda" and "Schindler's list" ] and what is clearly fantasy. To claim that all fans of any 'violent' media are all murderous bloodthirsty maniacs is totally absurd.

As for people who commit acts of violence/evil, I'd hardly say that they were angels before they watched a film/played a game etc... The causes of violent crime are very complex and it is too simplistic to blame it all on the media

Izzfan :flag2:

Sarasvati

Sep 23, 2007, 4:26 PM

Hello Izzfan, thank you for your words which I appreciate - especially the melodramatic part - I do love to play the old chrone.

It seems though that you have commented on my posts here without reading them.

To begin with I recognised that some prefer to "chew the bagel" in the stand, as you appear to want, which is fine - but others don't want that. On a site like this isn't it better to have a wide range of personality types - warts and all? Some like it hot, you know.

Now nowhere have I done such a thing in my 2 posts here as "blaming evil/violent crime all on the media", either directly or by implication. Such observations of yours are a fiction of your mind. My Marlowe example in itself illustrates the contrary.

So perhaps you may like to reflect your grasp of the difference between reality and fantasy is not so sure after all - and mine considerably keener (if I may say so myself).

A dozen red roses for you. Best wishes to you.

rmorti

Sep 23, 2007, 6:51 PM

Ok Im just going to pick at the bits I noticed and apologies if I dont understnad your angle completely Sara, so please correct me if I obviously miss-read the point.

"Sorry but moron culture is immensely dangerous, empty minds are so easily manipulated by self serving tyrants"

I can see what you mean that people can easily be influenced, however I just really can't believe it can have anything to do with the media that much, in paticular games, sure it gives people ideas, takes them to new places. I just feel that it really relys on someone who has a mental disorder of some form for the media too affect and cause them to carry out this action.
That or the person who has watched it is very young, but then for that kind of influence to reach them, they're watching/playing something that is not suitable for their age and obviously all films/games etc are aged.

"Yet such works need to follow the guidance of Marlowe in aiding the audience to think through the issues at stake - and not merely dull the senses with tedious imbecile-fodder!"

OK again I can see the point that morals and outcomes need to be shown of someones actions, however to be honest, paticularly with games I do just want some crazy action/racing/adventure with just an engrosing story, I dont always want some moral to occur afterwards. sometimes I wanna sit down, play the game feel rewarded by completeing it and finding out the end of the story, whether they even bother with a moral or not, for me its just entertainment and most important of all, freedom. Basically, for games, "tedius imbecile-fodder" is exactly what I need to relax the mind sometimes and escape into a world of gaming fantasy.
Othertimes when I want to be engrosed in the story, games like final fantasy series are what I need, they are the complete opposite to "imbecile fodder" etc, engrosing, passionate, stories that actualy can touch emotions, with (for example) morals of always helping the ones you love, even (obviously not to be taken literally) someone having to give their life to save millions.

AdamKadmon43

Sep 23, 2007, 7:18 PM

An ther Adam babes...we differ.... jus the way we r made... nowt 2 fall out ova is it??:tong:

Nah...

I still love ya anyhow.

izzfan

Sep 23, 2007, 8:28 PM

Apologies Sarasvasti, I didn't really see your post about Marlowe when I wrote my post [which was a response to your first post - my guess is that it was posted while I was typing my original post]. As for your point about Marlowe, I haven't actually read Tamburlaine (although I have read Doctor Faustus) but I think you have some good ideas about the issue of context especially with things like violence in the media.

Nevertheless, although in my post I referred to resident evil 5 as 'slightly mindless' , I think I have to take issue with your comment that "the main affect of these games is to dope the senses and dull the head", I mean they may not be high art or opera but I doubt they actually decrease your intelligence and as for 'dulling the senses', quite a few of these games are quite fast paced and anything but dull, although I guess it depends on the game and how long you play it for. As for making unscrupulous people rich, I have to agree - videogames these days are a complete rip-off [why do you think I get most of my games either second-hand or wait a while until the price goes down lol].

sorry about the misunderstanding [as I said before, it seems likely that you wrote your second post (the one about Marlowe) while I was typing my first one.

Izzfan :flag2:

(ps; glad to see that you like melodrama lol, the world isn't melodramatic enough these days *strokes mustache and cackles*:bigrin:)

AdamKadmon43

Sep 24, 2007, 12:33 AM

darkeyes

Sep 24, 2007, 7:29 AM

A post maybe Adam?? tee hee:bigrin:

hydropop

Sep 24, 2007, 7:38 AM

Yo Doogwood , im with you all the way on this one, Al shapetin , and jessie jackson are the first to cry racism, and arent badgered for it. Why cant we all just get along.

izzfan

Sep 24, 2007, 7:45 AM

Lol Adam, I guess I did say it quite a bit when I was typing my previous p**t. But the thing is that I couldn't think of another word for p**t, I mean p**t seems to be the easiest and most logical word to use for p**ting information on here. LOL - maybe I should consult a thesaurus or something lol.

Izzfan :flag2:

[a whole post and I didn't even technically say the word p... damn! LOL :bigrin:]

darkeyes

Sep 24, 2007, 7:53 AM

Jus make 1 or 2 teensy weensy wee points ere Izzie babes...

Its easy 2 cry "Its only a Game".. but games cum from sumwer, the imagination of the creator(s), the idea commissioned by the parent company, historically as a substitute for war, 2 perpetuate the the traditional roles of the sexes, 2 keep class difference, for doin down a sector of the cummunity, or even as may b the case ere, me cant say jus as a nice lil earner.. but even ther .. sumwer it is possible at any stage for the "innocence" of the idea 2 be corrupted by sum 1 in the process of development 2 cease to b "only a game". In this day an age it is a relatively simple matta for a subliminal message 2 b installed in a game or ne thin which is produced electronically an graphically....

It wud b arrogant of me 2 claim that mos peeps r a bit like sheep, but it is a fact that many r an jeez thats arrogant enuff... Led by the nose thinkin king an country can do no wrong, twisted by the prejudices with wich they hav been raised, unquestionin sheep... an neva undaestimate the use "game-play", electronic or more traditional can b put 2 stirrin up trouble an bigotry... ya jus look at the history of games... an ya can c it everytime ther is a football game or a world cup... look at the use games wer put 2 in nazi germany an the soviet union.... even the relatively "innocent" process of biddin for the Olympic Games has becum a bit of an unscrupulous unedifyin "game" used somethin otha than jus simple gud ole "fun"...

Games can b an r used 2 bring the worst out in human beins.... they can b dangerous an inisidious tools used 2 harm sum 1... in the case of this, me hasnt a clue...but neva eva say 2 me... big or small..."Its only a game".. games hav a purpose...an that purpose aint always nice....

darkeyes

Sep 24, 2007, 7:55 AM

rmorti

Sep 24, 2007, 8:07 AM

"Games can b an r used 2 bring the worst out in human beins.... they can b dangerous an inisidious tools used 2 harm sum 1... "

OK well that is not true, Games are used as a form of escapism and basically entertainment. you want to be a gangster, a great warrior of a mythical land, be able to slam your foot down and hit 150mph, then games let you do that with no worrys. I dont think its fair to say they are used to bring out the worst in human beings at all, it just lets some live out fantasy worlds, like people who want to own a supreme sports car, they can in gran turismo and its a form of accomplishment and gratification. I love to play games like Silent hill, however they dont bring the worst out in me at all, I just love to be emerged into something that can take my outisde my comfort zone and enjoy it, to be scared, just like a horror film.
It could come to a point that if games were not around, so people could not live out any inside fantasys without regret, that people may take up these actions in real life and thus they'd bring the worst out of them in real life. May seem a bit drastic but its a possbility, ever think of that?
You say they can be used to harm someone? how? the only reference of a gaming causing any "harm" was the manhunt issue with the lad who killed his friend. He was found to have previous mental issues from the beginning and his parents let him play such a game and tried to blame his actions soley on a game? I feel these statements are not backed up at all and you need to go into more detail because that statement is far to open ended.

darkeyes

Sep 24, 2007, 8:15 AM

Sed can.. sed can b, hav been an r.. an its true.. am not sayin every game is or will b... jus tryin 2 get peeps 2 waken up 2 the reality that games hav been historically developed an used for a purpose..not always a nice purpose..an in this ratha sophisticated day an age..we havta b on out guard more than eva because of that sophistication..

Only askin ya 2 think bout wy games r thot up... an think wy they depict wot theyd epict...

Ya don think wot me sez is true..fine... no skin of my nose... jus suggest ya do sum readin up on the history of games through the ages..an wer they cum from....

rmorti

Sep 24, 2007, 8:18 AM

But what games were used, give me some examples of computer games used in this form of...well propganda is what I feel your suggesting? what games were made to cause harm or make people think of things this way, all I want is some examples of a computer game(s) that were used in this way. otherwise the statement has no real relevance as its not backed up and I cant truely appreciate where you are comin from at all.

darkeyes

Sep 24, 2007, 9:34 AM

Morti babes...hav sed for now me not a game player..not puter games ne way... jus askin thatya think bout wot is involved... games..like ne otha form of graphic illustration r subject 2 the whims an prejudices of the producers... havent been talkin bout puter games entirely..an aint gonna outline ere specifics.. all me been sayin..an am sayin is this..games r produced for a reason..it mite be harmeless, but historically many games, not all were produced with an agenda in mind. In Nazi Germany, games were developed with the aim of perpetuatin the myth of the evil jewish conspiracy, war games played by kids kept goin the anti German an Japanese feelin afta world war 2, anti Russian feelin durin the cold war. Archery..a sport an therefore agame was developed not simply as a pastie but to keep people ready for war. Kids wer taught from an early age how to make an string a bow..an fire it. The various forms of football and team sports r war substitutes, which in al least 1 occasion caused a war... an not so long back eithe...

Some computer games depict the sleezy evil arab an therefore perpetuate the stereotypical arab nasty. Some depict the baddies as german, sum as russian even still.. sum as english wiv the gud ole merican hero...

Am not an neva hav sed that all games r bad or that they cause harm.. am jus sayin that wen ya buy a game..consider it in context..wot its bout, who the goodie, who the baddie, wers it cummin from. Am not sayin all games r bad an cause harm...am sayin sum, like the production of sum telly, sum film, hav a questionable morality an agenda.... games pre computers were developed for a reason..it is therefore safe to suppose that since the development of the home computer an games consols, that things wont have changed too much.

Only askin ya 2 question... seems since ya all hot unda collar bout it ya don altogetha 2 much... neva take things on face value...

Skater Boy

Sep 24, 2007, 9:42 AM

Am not an neva hav sed that all games r bad or that they cause harm.. am jus sayin that wen ya buy a game..consider it in context..wot its bout, who the goodie, who the baddie, wers it cummin from. Am not sayin all games r bad an cause harm...am sayin sum, like the production of sum telly, sum film, hav a questionable morality an agenda.... games pre computers were developed for a reason..it is therefore safe to suppose that since the development of the home computer an games consols, that things wont have changed too much.

Only askin ya 2 question... seems since ya all hot unda collar bout it ya don altogetha 2 much... neva take things on face value...

Good advice. And it applies to all forms of media, IMO.

naive

Sep 24, 2007, 10:01 AM

i don't want to get too involved in this issue because i may get worked up not be able to get to sleep but i consider most forms of media (whether it be movies, games, tv, music or art) as simply entertainment. i'm sure there are some creative minds out there that produce their media for ulterior motives other than simply making money but if i analyse that stuff too much (i still consider it, don't get me wrong), then i tend to not enjoy the entertainment factor quite as much.

i parallel resident evil with movies like 28 days later. i get more excited about the survival aspect rather than the death and destruction. using zombies to portray the antagonists is just another way to spark interest in the consumer.

i'm sure someone will argue with me and i'll feel obliged to reply but i hope i don't have to go on about it for too much longer :rolleyes:

rmorti

Sep 24, 2007, 10:23 AM

fair enough. I dont think its fair to slip in i'm getting hot under the collar, I was only asking for an example and that seems pretty tame to me so was an un called for comment but hey.
ok I see your point about the games stated, but we're talking about video games mainly so the previous ideas, I cant see really come into context, because no video game was ever made with intention of propganda etc and we are talking about video games.
you did say
"Games can b an r used 2 bring the worst out in human beins.... they can b dangerous an inisidious tools used 2 harm sum 1... "

now you've explained what you mean fair enougjh, but I was reading about a racism in video game forum and got the impression you meant computer games, so thats why I wanted an example, nw you've actualy explained it though ok.

To be honest the whole idea of morality and agenda, I think games are the fairest in represenstation these days compared to most media. Command and conquer, Europe vs Russia, two sides to a story, allows you realise both are as bad as each other, moral war=no ones a winner.
Resident evil, everyhting is at risk, race, religion, country, Umbrella need taking down (the evil coporation) no one is safe.
OK so you may get a game or two that has the stereotyped look about them, but sometimes that just cant be helped, I dont feel they went out there on the agenda to make it "anti-..." anything.
Thats one reason I love Team America, most people went in uproar because it was "racist" etc one sided. These people should open there eyes and realise matt and trey are taking the p*ss out of both america and terrorism, showing they they both are truely as bad as each other. Sure some of its a bit silly but it makes you realise just how touchy the world is to jump on anything without truely looking at it first.

Long Duck Dong

Sep 24, 2007, 10:35 AM

Sarasvati...you remind me of the fuckwit greenies we have here in new zealand

now let me make it quite clear that I am not insulting you or calling you a fuckwit.... I do not know you at all.......I am simply saying that your attitude is what I see with the greenies

what are the greenies, the greenies are the nz green party

they are a political group in the nz parliament

they want most forms of exercise banned in schools as its a form of child abuse,...

they want drugs legalised

they got the anti spanking bill made law..... its illegal in nz to discipline your kids, you face a jail term... they also want parents jailed for the kids crimes

they OPPOSED the increase of jail for possession of child porn from 2 years to 5 years....

now if your kids can't exercise, they will sit inside watching tv and playing console and computer games......

cos parents can't disclipline their kids, the kids will play up and misbehave

the kids will see that they can get away with nearly anything......and they will do it

the greenies will look at the fact that the kids play cole and computer games and watch tv.... and guess what the greenies will do ?????

BLAME THE GAMES AND THE TV

darkeyes

Sep 24, 2007, 2:50 PM

Just 2 points Duckie... first hittin kids?? Can c wy peeps do it cos they can b rite lil sods... but hittin em jus encourages em to grow up an think its ok 2 go round clattrin peeps... its an admission of failure... we not allowd 2 go round clattrin adults so wtf do we think its ok 2 go round beltin children?? An yea..me wud if its bad enuff send parents 2 jail for doin jus that...an yea wud make em suffer the same punishments at the very least than if they smacked an adult one...

Second.. drugs shud b legalised not cos they gud things, but cos they encourage the criminal fraternity 2 make loadsa dosh an feed shit inta the community.... its betta 2 accept reality than 2 let those bastards geta way with the crap they do... at 1 fell swoop wotya do is create jobs (tho less than nice jobs), clean up the standard of drug dished inta the community, lessen the cost 2 the consumer, undermine the criminal bstards wh currently fuk wiv so many peeps lives, an wiv the taxation generated, provide the health care an programmes wich r required 2 deal wiv a prob that jus aint gonna go away... it mite not b moral or decent, but it is sensible...

Sarasvati

Sep 24, 2007, 4:04 PM

What a marvellous shindig we've all had with this here thread, dear friends.

Thoroughly enjoyed it myself - nice to find some new friends from among you in the midst of our free for all - Izzfan, rmorti, Adam, Naive, brunette, coyote, Long Duck and others...

Shall we ring the bell now and take ourselves all off to the bar - and smile at the fine entertainment we've just partaken in.

"What're you having rmorti - a screwdriver? Just kidding, make mine a bloody Mary then - oh my, look at me, what did I say, bloody fool I am".

Everyone gather round, get your favourite tipple flowing and let's leave this thread behind. We'll sure have another one like it some other time.

Funny thing is I just discovered a computer game that was great and quite violent at times - it was called "Too Far with Racism"

Ho ho ho

vittoria

Sep 25, 2007, 12:07 PM

coyotedude

Sep 26, 2007, 3:38 AM

being bisexual and not white is no vacation

bi chicks dont normally dig me

but theres a bit more important sh*t going on that is TRULY racist... not in video game land either... ( i dont see the importance--there were a number of "black" characters in earlier RE games... not like i should feel the need to count)

What about the Jena 6?
http://burningbird.net/connecting/the-jena-6/

http://friendsofjustice.wordpress.com/2007/07/02/ineffective-assistance-of-counsel-what-blane-williams-should-have-known/

now THATS something to be worried about... REAL LIVES, and not video game mularky

I'd definitely agree with ya there!!!!!!

Peace

coyotedude

Sep 26, 2007, 3:59 AM

well the forum deffinetly changed to drastic levels of how gamers are sick twisted people.

So rmorti - what's wrong with being sick and twisted? :bigrin::bigrin::bigrin:

But seriously.... in the grand scheme of things, whether this game is racist or not is pretty piddly stuff, as vittoria pointed out. I frankly don't have an opinion on the game simply because I know precious little about it and don't care to spend the time to analyze it. After all, it's just a game.

Seems to me, however, that lots of people are using this tempest in a teapot to slam anyone who dares to suggest that (gasp) racism might still be alive and well in the year 2007. And that definitely raises my eyebrows.

Al Sharpton may not be my favorite person, and I find Jesse Jackson to be a disappointment much of the time (although he's the source of one of my favorite quotes).

But guess what, people?

Racism is real.

The sooner we accept that simple fact, the closer we get to truly eliminating it once and for all.

Peace

darkeyes

Sep 26, 2007, 6:53 AM

Giveya few examples of how sick an twisted gamers can becum.... wen it becums an obsession...

1.. me m8's husband pummelled er half 2 death wen she interrupted is "game play" wen she wanted im 2 run er 2 the shops. It wos merely the last of a series nasty incidents an assaults committed by a guy me has known since me wos 14 an who wos a reely nice guy...

2... kid of 13 attacks is sister wen she NEEDS the PC at ome for er Standard Grade school work an e jus snapped even tho is time wos up as previously agreed..

3. Guy of 17 refuses 2 give up is dads PC an afta repeated requests an warnins loses the plot smashes PC an the family livin room...

Now me not sayin that this is the fate of all gameplayers, but it can b wen they get obsessed wiv games or a game. Its sad an its dangerous. Mos game players far as me knows r sensible decent peeps who use em for wot they intended..fun. But sumtimes they can b jus a lil addictive spesh if that person has an addictive personality an so they not the triff entirely innocent pastimes sum make em out 2 b...

Game playin is like ne thin else.. fine in moderation.. but taken 2 excess can twist the mind an turn generally nice peeps in2 glarin bug eyed monsters.. an as such every 1 shud b a lil wary of em.. Chattin or surfin on the net can also b highly addictive an kno of 1 or 2 wee incidents of strife at ome caused by that...

An V an Dude r rite largely...racism is alive an well.. in the UK as well as ova ur way... have seen an been involved in sum rite ugly uncidents of racist thiggish behaviour...hav heard seen an been involved in sum rite set 2's ova racist comments bein made by so called articulate intelligent peeps... The US an the UK aint alone... me has seen it in France wer it can b reely nasty, an in Spain.. hav seen it in Belgium an for Christs sake even in Luxemburg... have seen it from ordinary peeps, from polis, from border guards, immigration officers an from various so called otha arms of officialdom... an it not pleasant...

Me lives in a predominantly white anglo saxon society (anglo celt if ya takes england outa the equation) an its not only among the white community that racism is alive an well. Its in every community throughout our society, whether it b black, asian, chinese, arab, jewish, eastern european... sum has been brought wiv them, sum created by the lack of welcum by large parts of the predominant culture of my country at least.. an the antogonism... so much has been created as a backlash against that culture an now that its ere it won go away very easily. Me mum is English an hav been involved in moren 1 spat against me own country peeps who hav objected 2 er even bein ere, an bein called hurtful names by them.. wen me goes 2 c me family in England hav suffered it meself 2 sum extent... an in Wales hav heard sum rite nasty stuff rollin outa the mouths of Welsh peeps bout the English.. an vice versa...

We r human beins for fuks sake..it shudn matta our colour, our country of origin, our culture.. wot we believe... we r but one race, 1 people, 1 species... wether ya hair is blond or brunette, ya eyes blue or brown, ya skin black pink or purple, ya christian islamic buddhist or athiest, wetha yas bi gay or str8 or ne thin else are such lil things 2 destroy lives ova..

For all our differences...we hav far more in common than seperates us... but sadly ther r interested parties an arsehole peeps who hav no interest in unitin humanity for reasons of ther own...

rmorti

Sep 26, 2007, 7:53 AM

lol Coyote I am a gamer too, I wasn't saying anythign was wrong with it, just representing in a scentence what the forum had been saying lately :P feel you read it wrong my friend.

As for the 3 examples, I dont really think they attacked because of the games, I mean they could be doing work on the pc etc. Its obvious the person had previous issues and used the final straw to snap. those examples sounds the same as "she interrupted the album he was listening to and then...." Those are more example of the person using the item as a final straw, rather then ti being the game itself, imo.

Also I wasn't doubting racism around, that wasn't my question on the forum, I was just explaining that its basically a sad time we live in where people will try and slam down the race card on anything, and this game just happened to be a prime example. I know racism is around and its serious stuff, it is a shame how some people are with race but hey, its a magical world we live in and everyone has their opinions for whatever reasons. Just a shame the way some of them see the world like they do.

darkeyes

Sep 26, 2007, 8:20 AM

Can happen because of otha things sure Morti..but that neitha makes it rite or is ne justification woteva... point me makin is simply that in sum peeps, ther addiction 2 games is seriously dangerous.... me has screamed like hell wen ( wen younga an at home wiv me mum an dad) told 2 turn off or down music but wud neva lose the nut cos sum 1 asked me 2 stop playin a bloody puter game. They can b seriously addictive wiv all the reactions and problems that ne addiction can cause.... computers themselves can b very addictive as we know..an similarly the maunufacturers of them shud b doin likes wise... ther a link tween the 2 but how much is puters an how much games is ne 1's guess..

The fault is in part wiv us morti me don deny that.. that we can b susceptible 2 addiction..but the makers of puter games know that, an shud bear ther share of responsibility for it jus as ciggie producers an booze producers an ne 1 who produces ne form of addiction hasta take thers.... an in the end shud b prepared 2 coff up wen it all goes arse ova tip! So me not sayin ban em..jus sayin that more care shud b takin in ther production an studies made 2 find out wy peeps get so addicted that ther lives crash... an they shud act accordingly.. millions hav gr8 fun wiv puter games.. jus as they do outa lotsa otha things.. an most come through unscathed... but many dont.. an thats wy the producers of games shud accept ther is a prob an it shud b addressed....

Lastly me for 1..neva slams down the race card for everythin..me jus slams it down wen it needs 2 b slammed.. an in this world its a lot... prob is so many peeps resent the cry of racism wen its aimed at ther community or if its 2 b found in summat they read watch or play an they havnt reely taken the times 2 think bout it... but that suits racists... the complacency an lack of thinkin so many put inta wot they do....

Long Duck Dong

Sep 26, 2007, 10:22 AM

first hittin kids?? Can c wy peeps do it cos they can b rite lil sods... but hittin em jus encourages em to grow up an think its ok 2 go round clattrin peeps... its an admission of failure... we not allowd 2 go round clattrin adults so wtf do we think its ok 2 go round beltin children?? An yea..me wud if its bad enuff send parents 2 jail for doin jus that...an yea wud make em suffer the same punishments at the very least than if they smacked an adult one...

I was refering to simple disclipline......nothing heavy......just things like a slap on the ass when the kid throws a tantrum in the supermarket and refuses to behave, or tries to play with a electrical socket etc etc
( now I know all about safe parenting, but kids are kids and where theres a will, theres a way )

the general rule is that you send your kids for *time out * including taking you kids out of a supermarket and putting them in a car ( we all know just how dangerous and stupid that can be )

kids are taught in schools now, that they have rights..... even their school reports are off limits for the parents viewing if the kids say so, under the privacy act of nz, a kids school report is regarded as a personal record....hence parents can break the view if they view it without the kids consent.....yet parents pay for the education of the kid and have the right to know what is going on

the green party wants parents made responsible for kids actions.....like if your eight year is playing with a lighter or something, and burns down a house or building ( we are talking about a accident here, even tho kids should not have access to lighters ), that the parents get jailed for arson
if your child bullies another kid, the parent is guilty of assault etc etc

so we are fast becoming a society in new zealand, where the kids are being told that they can do anything they want.... they are above disclipline
hence the number of schools teachers assaulted and abused by school kids is rising fast
the rates of bullying and violence is rising fast ( the kids are bullying others and posting it on youtube, cos they know that the law and their parents can't touch them )

yet the current trend is to blame the media and video games.....

when I was a lil kid, I got bullied... and there was no video games, and limited violence on tv..... the only thing the bullies had to worry about, was getting caught and punished.....now they don't even have to worry about that.....

we live in a world where personal responsibility is disappearing.... and its becoming a world where you blame societies influences, your parents, the media.... anything but yourself.....

me... i perfer to be responsible for my actions, for the good and the bad..... cos after all, I did them....not the media, not society, not my parents but me....

but living in nz.... we constantly hear about how 150 odd years ago, the europeans stuck it to the maori people....and how we should apologize to them
true they deserve a apology..... 60 years of compensation ( a few billlion dollars worth and 7 apologizes by past prime ministers ), we have the catch phrase of * racism * and beleive me the extremists are finding every lil thing to call racist

the maori are more prone to cancer..... but cos the health system is working on treating cancer as a multi racial issue... its racist

the maori are more prone to leaving school at a young age and not gaining university degrees....because the education system tends all students equally, its racist

the claims of racist and racism, are most common amongst races that are predominantly people of colour

the one thing that constantly amuses me, is the claims of racism, are often waved around by the same people that call for equal rights and equal standing but want seperate standing based on race.....

its a self fueling fire.......we can never stop racism until we stop waving the different rights for different races banner and start waving the we are all equal but have different needs and different ways of being who we are

darkeyes

Sep 26, 2007, 8:35 PM

Duckie Duckie babes... how often have I heard and seen the operation of the theory and practice of simple discipline degenerate into something far more sinister and nasty... a slap on the wrist, the tap on the bum the skite on the leg.. sure sometimes it works, especially in the early stages, but as time goes on and children grow and become more aware, and they too have begun to slap out at those around them with ever more force, parents simple discipline and the simple tap becomes a little more forceful too just to get the message across. What does the child learn but to do likewise..and so it goes on right up to adolescence and adulthood, where the force used becomes potentially ,uch more lethal. As children learn to lie, cheat and steal from what they see around them they also learn that if mummy and daddy and grown ups can smack and thump, then they copy that behaviour and we get the viscious spiral continued.

We are responsible Duckie for how our children grow up, for what they turn into. Certainly as they grow up then it is up to them to take their share of responsibility for their actions and in time most do. But parents like their parents before them must take the responsibility for their childrens development as human beings for good and ill and usually it is a pretty good share of both. Personal responibilty is certainly something we must all take, and be taught to take, but personal responsibility for a child goes with the personal responsibilty of the parent for his or her parenting skills. Ultimately we bear personal responsibility for how our children turn out and we must never deny that responsibility.

Children are taught in schools that they have rights, and they are taught also that they have responsibilities, and it is right and proper that this is so. However since parental authority is not always what it should be, or parental responsibility itself has failed, as more parents seem not to care about what goes on in school, and just as importantly often undermine teachers authority and responsibility, much of the problem rests in the home. Schools bear their share of responsibilty by having inadequate beahavioural and discipline policies and too often children simply ignore and destroy not only their own but the education of others by their actions. Government, schools and parents all have been found wanting in this. Proper regard to bullying is essential but unless parents work with the schools, and support school policies and help drum into children that bullying will not be tolerated then it doesnt matter what any does as an individual, or what the school does as an institution, then those anti bullying policies will ultimately fail.

Government also has its part to play by ensuring that their is adequate legisalation and funding to support schools in all of their undertakings not just on bullying, but on this issue I am not sure that there is not a role for the law to become involved and enforce its will on parents who blatantly abrogate their personal responsibilties by offering no support to child or school alike except by ignoring whatever their child does, or worse, by taking issue with the school and often smacking a teacher when he or she blindly refuses to accept that their child may just be at fault.

It is parents who do not care sufficiently about their child's future and welfare which is turning out kids who run riot and are quite uncontrollable. It is society's job to produce a way of pulling those negligent parents into line. How best its done is for debate, and there are many different options which should be considered, and the prosecution fining and/or jailing of parents for their negligence (and often Duckie, encouragement) in allowing their children to have no respect for their school, other people or what is around them is one option whcich cannot be ignored...personal parental responsibility its called..and not enough parents have it. Dont get me wrong, I am extremely unhappy about this development, and would rather other options were explored, but I am unconvinced that rogue parents will begin to do what they should without this recourse to law. Compulsory parenting classes and/or community service are other options which should be considered. If we are to go down the route of prosecution of parents, then it must be as a very last resort where no other option exists, because however bad they may be, the possibility of taking children into care and thus institutionalising them puts the fear of God into me... but it is a route that in very occasional cases, the most serious cases, may have to be considered and acted upon...

I speak as a relatively young person who is no lover of authority or the law, with a strong rebellious streak myself, but who intends to teach High School in two years time and make a career of trying to educate our young people and also to try and mould them not into mirror images of me or anyone else, but as decent human beings who have care and consideration for those around them, but to make their own way in the world as successfully as they are able, and equally as importantly, to be the person they wish to be not what parents,school or society wishes them to be.

My parents would agree with you more or less Duckie. But the mess we are in has been created substantially by their generation and they know and accept their share of responsibility for it.... where they and I disagree is the solution, therefore where you and I disagree is the solution. We both agree that people must take personal responsibility for their actions. But people must be taught this simple fact, by schools, by society, but also very importantly in the home. Taking personal responibility is not instinctive, but learned.

I am not so arrogant as to say I am right in all I say. I simply believe me to be right, and hope as the years pass to have some small influence in proving that to be the case. Twenty years down the line, if I am very wrong, and things are in as big or a bigger mess, then I too will hold my hands up and accept my personal responsibility for the shite mess the world is in and for the ruin of our children. Until then I intend to act as I have always done with hand on heart, brain in gear, always listening and trying to learn and find the best way forward I can. As I have always done I will make mistakes, many will be pretty stupid too, but as long as I learn from them, then I can say that if I am not always wise, at least I have done my very best.

I have taken up a lot of time addressing the kids issue...regarding the race issue, it is certainly true that mostly in the west and in the predominantly white states, that it is people of colour as you put it who grumble about racism (fuk I hate that expression.. wtf is a person of colour?? Dont I have a colour???). Its hardly surprising really as the reigns of power are held by the majority population and it is quite normal for minorities to feel just a bit oppressed and resentful... and in the main they have much justification for it. This doesnt exempt them from responsibility for their own racism.. Ive said before..every community has racists... but I can quite understand why resentment in an oppressed community can develop into racism. Its not right and it should not be condoned or excused, but it is understandable.

We are the human race or rather species.. a single species who have developed different characteristics individually and ethnically.. until we can all accept that as a fact and treat each other with respect we are all due then internicine strife between the "races" will continue... the predominant "race " will always grudge the minorites being given a leg up the ladder...whether positive discrimination is the answer is questionable, but I think it has for the moment a role to play, but it cannot continue indefinately... therein lies disaster and its quite impractical anyway for the long term. This resentment realises itself by people grumbling about the leg up those minorites are given and they tend to blank the fact that in some ways this can be argued to be racism in itself. I would argue that it is in fact just that...

You are right of course..that until we stop waving the banners of the "races" then we can never truly get shot of racism.. but we are a long way from that yet the world over... until that day we must fight piecemeal on behalf of all "races" and peoples to provide them with same services and rights as anyone else, expect from them the same compassion and responsibilities we demand of ourselves, the same acceptance that for all our differences, we are human beings. But "race" remains an issue, and shall remain an issue for longer than either you or I will be alive... until then we must all bear our own share of personal responsibility for the state of our "race" relations and strive to do what we can to eliminate bigotry wherever we find it for as long as there is breath in our bodies.

coyotedude

Sep 28, 2007, 3:21 AM

lol Coyote I am a gamer too, I wasn't saying anythign was wrong with it, just representing in a scentence what the forum had been saying lately :P feel you read it wrong my friend.

Oh, no, I was just trying to be cute... sorry!!! :)

Actually, I'm not a gamer, myself. Don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with gamers, though. Sure, there are a few wacks out there - but hell, there're a lot of wacks who wouldn't know a game from a hole in their head! (Or their ass or arse or however you want to spell it, for that matter.) So go figure.... :eek::eek::eek:

Am a geek, though (Java programmer by profession) - so I do get fascinated with how games are made. Wish I had the originality to write my own - but perhaps someday....

Peace

darkeyes

Sep 28, 2007, 6:08 AM

Oh, no, I was just trying to be cute... sorry!!! :)

Ya knows ya don need 2 try 2 b cute Coyote babes:tong:

CuddlyKate

Sep 28, 2007, 7:25 AM

Its not often I will take real issue with your belief's Frances, but on this issue of jailing parents for the sins of the children is nonsensical.

I do agree that parents must be held accountable for their children's upbringing, but where does that stop? Parents are not taught parenthood, and it is not something which comes easily or naturally to everyone. We have argued this till we are blue in the face and have never yet come even close to agreeing.

All children are different and need different handling. Not all children are inherently good however much we wish it to be otherwise. It is simply counterproductive to even think of imprisoning a parent for failing to ensure that their children act as decent human beings, attend school and be little adults.

The law tells us that ignorance is no excuse. Personally on the issue of parenting I think it is most certainly an excuse because of our society's failure to provide adequate support and traning to parents. It is society and Governement that has acted in an ignorant manner and maybe it is a pity we cant jail them!

In the long term we store up a whole lot of trouble by institutionalising people at the most important part of their life's development. You touched on that yourself. There are too many children in care as it is without adding a whole new category.

I can accept that parents who encourage their children to break the law, disobey school rules or persistently take them out of school deliberately for
selfish personal reasons outwith the legal definiton of acceptable absence should without doubt be punished, as should any who assaults a teacher or any member of school staff. But these are issues of law already provided for and therefore the law should take its course. What I cannot accept, is parents otherwise being taken to court and punished for the abject failure of decades of our society.

If fault there is, it is not that of parents individually, but collectively in the form of our society and the elected Governement's of the day.

coyotedude

Sep 28, 2007, 7:33 AM

Ya knows ya don need 2 try 2 b cute Coyote babes:tong:

Awwww.... blushing......

Schumi

Sep 28, 2007, 9:21 AM

Come on i thing that telling that the game is a racist game you are giving them much more advertisement than they should have.I think that they don't even think about of making a racist game on purpose i don't think that they would like to lose costumers.And you know in the pro evolution 6 Henry is a the best player in the game what that is means that the programmer was French or nor fan of Ronaldinho!

timepga50

Sep 28, 2007, 6:01 PM

FalconAngel

Sep 29, 2007, 1:30 AM

Some people, black or white, cannot have an unemotional,intelligent conversation about race. Their prejudices just won't allow them to. I'm am black and I have noticed this about some of my people.They just cannot see anything without their being an underlying racial undertone to it.Often times this only exists in their own mind.It disheartens me when I see black people defend morons like Mike Vick.This idiot has done more to hurt black people because his actions perpeutate the image of young black men as being nothing more than brutal ,ignorant thugs.I would tell my people to stop seeing the KKK behind every tree.It's JUST A GAME!!!!

You go that right.
I have been in and seen arguments between whites and other racial groups, and with only one exception that I can recall, the racial epithets came from the non-whites in those confrontations. I had one latino woman (as it turned out, an illegal) call me a racist cracker because I believed that if you move to a country (USA in this case) to live, then you should learn the language.

Racism exists mostly in the minds and agendas of (some of)the black community leaders who gain fame and fortune by keeping racism at the forefront of the national news (ala Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton).

coyotedude

Sep 30, 2007, 12:02 AM

Racism exists mostly in the minds and agendas of (some of)the black community leaders who gain fame and fortune by keeping racism at the forefront of the national news (ala Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton).

I'm too upset to answer this well right now. Too angry to think rationally.

Too amazed that you actually believe this.

With what I have seen with my own family, some of whom are Indian....

With what I have seen with my friends, some of whom are black.... or Asian.... or Latino.... or Indian.....

With the comments I have received about my own children, who were born in China....

You simply have no clue. And obviously don't want one.

FalconAngel

Sep 30, 2007, 2:41 AM

Actually, Coyotedude, I do have a clue.
As a Veteran, I had to go through the mandated racial harmony course that was, and probably still is, a part of basic training in the US Army. I didn't feel that I needed it because, quite frankly, I don't see any difference in people because of their racial background.
While overseas I was fortunate enough to meet people from all over the world and in most places, where there is a true mix of ethnicities, the racial problem is not nearly so large as here in the States. In the UK, I witnessed very little racism, but most of it was aimed at the Middle Eastern community, with a very small percentage aimed at blacks. What was aimed at blacks was almost entirely from the skinheads.

Here in the States, I saw a lot of racism, but almost all of it here, were I live is aimed at whites from Latinos and blacks. It seems that if you are white you need to watch what you say for fear of being called a racist, but if you are Latino or Black, then the rules change. Maybe it's different in your area, but here in South Florida it is as I have stated it.

See, I don't assume that because you are black that you are a mugger, or because you are Middle Eastern that you are a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer, or because you are Latin that you automatically will be a raging homophobe.
I speak my mind and I call em as I see em. So I can only speak about what I have seen and experienced.
I also am suspicious if someone comes out and immediately claims that they were discriminated against because they were this race or that race. If you look at the realities of mass media, you will see how it has been manipulated by folks who have made their living off of just this same kind of thing. Go ahead and listen to the news the next time it is on. Listen to how they say what the top stories are and then watch the story and see if it is really as bad as they made it sound to get you into it.
It is all the same. Make something an issue, particularly when it isn't as much of an issue to begin with, and you can make it an issue again just by getting people to overreact to it.
That's how Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have made their fortunes blossom over the past few decades.
That was how O.J. got away with murder....by playing the race card. That and being able to hire an expensive legal team.

Race is an issue as long as we make it an issue. In most places in the US, that is not an issue till someone tries to make it one. This is not the 1950's, 1960's or 1970's, when racism was at the forefront of our national issues. Right now, there are laws to protect people from racial discrimination, as well as other forms of discrimination. And yes, while it is not always easy to prove that you are being discriminated against, it is possible, when it's true.
With those accused people in Jena may be black, I doubt that their race has anything to do with it. Like I said it isn't the 50', 60's or 70's. Nowadays the law enforcement community has methods at their disposal which is almost guaranteed to make sure that the right person (s) get prosecuted and while not perfect, make it more difficult for the wrong ones to get imprisoned. About 3 times this year I have read in the papers or seen on tv how men wrongfully accused and imprisoned have been set free because of newer science in law enforcement (DNA testing, for example).

We cannot go blaming racism for all of our ills. The black and latino communities want to keep claiming that they are the victims of prejudice, but what have they done to stop gang violence? Have they formed community watch programs? No. Have they founded successful youth organizations to give kids an alternative? Some, but not most and not all. You want to say that racial profiling is racist? Prove to law enforcement that it doesn't work. Racial profiling isn't just looking at the ethicity of a person; it INCLUDES behavior, dress and a dozen other points that are too difficult to explain without giving everyone a class on the subject. (insert ethicity here) that dress and speak a certain way, behave a certain way. For example. Some person comes up to me and says "Yo,yo yo. wazup?" Is going to get less respect, no matter what color they are, than someone who walks up and says "Hi. how are you?" And before anyone jumps in with the argument of "That's the language of the black comunity", know this; Only the black community in the US has their own ethnic-based dialect. If one is trying to isolate themselves from the community, well speech patterns is the first step. Black folks in England don't separate themselves linguistically like the black community here does.

No clue?
I doubt it.
Maybe I've just been around more than some.
Maybe I've just been one of those rare individuals that can see through all the BS and realizes that most of the racial issues are brought about by the folks claiming to be victims.
That wasn't the case 40 years ago, but we've come a long way since then. Maybe those folks should get caught up with the 21st century.

darkeyes

Sep 30, 2007, 8:43 AM

You go that right.
I have been in and seen arguments between whites and other racial groups, and with only one exception that I can recall, the racial epithets came from the non-whites in those confrontations. I had one latino woman (as it turned out, an illegal) call me a racist cracker because I believed that if you move to a country (USA in this case) to live, then you should learn the language.

Racism exists mostly in the minds and agendas of (some of)the black community leaders who gain fame and fortune by keeping racism at the forefront of the national news (ala Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton).

*chokes on er bacon roll* Seethes.......

*recovers...takes a breath finally an says*

Open ya eyes ya silly arse... an don talk such stupid bollox... racism exists mostly in the minds of racists..thats wy they r racists..an its alive an bloody well all ova the planet... its not surprisin that non whites mostly come up with the racial epithets..in your country, as in mine most of the racism is aimed at them... white peeps can sit back an be complacent an deny their culpability or hide theirs cos they have the upper hand by sheer weight of numbers if nothing else... an there is plenty else believe me!!! Cut out the holier than thou crap an waken up....

FalconAngel

Sep 30, 2007, 1:25 PM

Sheer numbers doesn't work everywhere. It doesn't work here in South Florida where whites are effectively out numbered by 3-1 or 10 -1 depending on if you are talking about blacks or latinos.

It may be true on in many areas, but not here.

While I was in the uk, I did meet one guy who REALLY hated blacks; but then again, his wife did run off with one from the base, so he also had it in for Americans.

And yes, racism exists in the minds of racists (which is what I had been saying all along). But here in the States, those numbers have been dwindling amongst whites and growing amongst blacks and latinos. The largest growth rate of hate crimes has been from the black community. In Miami, most of the big news crimes from the latin community has been the Cuban politicians getting caught. When was the last time someone heard of any racially motivated attacks by whites against blacks? I just doesn't happen as guys like Al Sharpton and his ilk claim. Not even in the deep south, where it was epidemic in the 50's and 60's. With all of the hate crime laws in place in this country, the white supremecy groups are afraid and the non-white racists are getting bolder.

How many black folks here in this group have had things thrown at them or been called names because they were traveling through a white neighborhood? Not many, I would guess, but a white guy traveling through a black neighborhood? I've had things thrown at me, had people call me names....I had one homeless guy call me racist just because I didn't want his help to change a tail light bulb on my car in a convenience store parking lot. How rediculous is that?

Yes, racism exists and, as you said, it is in the minds of the racists, but the problem is that too many people make too big a deal of it. Yes, you need to punish those who commit crimes based on prejudice, but treat it like any other crime because when you make a bigger deal of it that you should, you make the problem worse.
It's like giving the troublemaker all the attention. It just makes them do it again because it is probably the only way that they get attention.

darkeyes

Sep 30, 2007, 7:03 PM

Ya miss the point Falcon babes..wer u r is in gr8tr scheme of things relatively unimportant (cept mayb wen it cums to election fiddlin...but me digresses).. overall in the US the reigns of power r in the hands of the white population..or more accurately the white elite.. rich powerful corrupt bastards who wud prefer 2 stay rich powerful corrupt bastards an it suits them that the poor impoverished whites r at loggerheads wiv the poor impoverished blacks, native americans or ne otha minority group.. if the poor african american, an the poor native american an european american populations an the hispanics wud realise they hav more in common wiv each otha than wiv the elite that rules ther lives..an stick togetha then mayb jus mayb real progress wud b made in the US.

Things r much the same ere..an in Europe..so not sayin yas alone in this...cos ya aint...

AdamKadmon43

Sep 30, 2007, 7:08 PM

overall in the US the reigns of power r in the hands of the white population..or more accurately the white elite..

Not in New Orleans, it ain't, and probably not a whole lot of other places here.

If you believe that, you must have been living underneath a rock for the past few decades.

Adam

darkeyes

Sep 30, 2007, 7:38 PM

Not in New Orleans, it ain't, and probably not a whole lot of other places here.

If you believe that, you must have been living underneath a rock for the past few decades.

Adam

Wot bout overall in the US dontcha undstand Adam hun??? Overall in the US the power is in the hands of white elite..sure in a few isolated places this aint so, limited power (sumtimes even a lot but still limited) in hands of a minority elite..but nationally thats wer the power is... an in reality...look at Katrina..wer wos the reel power then???

AdamKadmon43

Sep 30, 2007, 8:20 PM

Wot bout overall in the US dontcha undstand Adam hun??? Overall in the US the power is in the hands of white elite..sure in a few isolated places this aint so, limited power (sumtimes even a lot but still limited) in hands of a minority elite..but nationally thats wer the power is... an in reality...look at Katrina..wer wos the reel power then???

I do not know, Darkeyes, from whence comes your profound insight into the internal workings of the power and socialological structure of this country, but I suspect that you, like a great deal of other people, get your information from sources that present you with what you want to hear and not what is necessarily the total picture or even the truth. I seriously doubt that you ever bother to look at opposing view points and try to see if, perhaps, they may have some thoughts worth considering that do not fit into your world view.

I am working on something that I intend to post in here soon, but I need to be very, very careful about how I word it so I am taking my time with it.. The last thing in the world that I need is to be accused of being racist or intolerant. I have suffered enought in my life time from intolerance, and I most certrainly do not wish to become a part of what I so much despise.... But I believe that people ought to be reasonable about things and not go to extremes with them.

I am neither conservative, nor liberal..... I am neither Democrat nor Republican ... I am neither Left nor Right ...I AM REASONABLE.

But no matter what, I still love ya anyhow, and ya make me smile.

**** Oh.. Almost forgot... sends ya about a million hugs and kisses ****

Adam

darkeyes

Sep 30, 2007, 9:08 PM

No hun...not jus wiv wot I wanna hear..2 get an idea of the true pic of ne thin ya havta look as betsya can at both sides of the coin.. 2 do otha wise ya fail both yaself an the cause ya claim 2 support anrepresent.. believe it or not..me dus listen..dus read, dus think... an yea dus argue me corner...

The difficulty we all hav is that we hav beliefs an opinions wich hav been shaped ova our lives... an rare it is wen we read an opposition pointa view to our own do we fundamentally shift position..it dus happen. It has happened2 me an hope it will happen again... but such is me deep philosophical an political beliefs that am not gonna alter them cept in the mos minor way by seein that mayb me has misjudged a position an me thinks it through an decides how far me goes in reassessin wot had been me position previously...

This is the 21 st century..an such is the availability of guff 2 us all, certainly in the west that we can get a pretty gud grasp of a situation in almost ne country on the planet.. its easier in the so called free societies such as the US an UK...

If ya wanna know sum of the places me gets me info...ya own govts web sites, the Republican party's website, the Dems, the FBI, the CIA, the web sites of various political pressure groups, trade unions, civil liberties groups, newsgroups, police depts, local authorities, state authorities, .. reads books 2... gud thing books...nice an quiet, sit down read the words an digest em... bios autobios philosophy, political, economics..all borin an stodgy stuff, but interestin conversely in ther own way... economic history, social history, political history, history history... watch telly 2...news, docs, from beeb, channel 4, 2 CNN, Fox an try an gauge the best pic me can of ur country...

If ya don think me has a rite 2 hav wot u call profound opinions on ur country thats a valid point 2 make...jus as my point that me has a rite 2 express me opinion bout ur country or ne 1 elses wen me sees ther r probs, an if peeps talk, in me own humble opinion..bollox... Ur country is at present the mos powerful an influential nation on the planet...things that happen ther now hav this nasty habit of happenin ere tomoro.. for that reason, an cos funnily enuff me likes u lot, jus as me likes me own country peeps, its necessary 2 study wtf is goin on ova ther..

Notha thing me has is lotsa peeps me knows ova ther an they tell me me talkin bollox pretty often an we hav gud ole barney bout it... an thats gud 2... don stop me likin em...jus cos we disagree.. sum happen to think like u..an sum more like me... lots like neitha of us..so me gets a pretty gud idea readin tween the lines wot the score is..

Me only prob wen commentin on the US is that me has neva been...hold me hands up ther...but such is the communications these days me can get a pretty gud idea of wots goin on... will visit 1 a these days me hopes... hav lotsa peeps me luffs ova ther... but jus as me aint been ther... thats no less valid than ne 1 who aint been here doin precisely the same bout my country or ne wer else...

From wotya say..me gathers ya resent jus a smidge bout me pokin me neb in an commentin on ur country''s affairs..fair comment... resent an object away...aint gonna make ne difference..still gonna do it... cos thats me rite..

End on this point...mayb ya discomfiture bout me pokin me nose in will give ya a lil idea of how peeps around the world resent big powerful countries (not jus the US ere lemme say) pokin ther noses inta ther affairs... diff is....me not gonna invade ya... an wudn even if me cud..cept 2 hav hol an a ball (an mayb the odd lil demo or 2 gainst summat me don like or in support a summat me dus) an yas welcum 2 join in ifya like....

An luff u 2 babes... slag me off allya like...that won stop me likin ya lots..even tho ya dus talk bollox so much... tee hee

AdamKadmon43

Sep 30, 2007, 9:50 PM

OK, sweetness ... I stand corrected.

Adam

darkeyes

Oct 1, 2007, 3:45 AM

Shurrup an gimme a kissie ya daft sod. x:tong:

coyotedude

Oct 2, 2007, 1:58 PM

Actually, Coyotedude, I do have a clue.

I stand corrected. You're not clueless. Instead, you're willfully ignorant.

That's worse, in my opinion.

You call it like you see it. Fine. But you see it wrong.

I don't even know where to begin. I'll just pick a few things.

"That was how O.J. got away with murder....by playing the race card. That and being able to hire an expensive legal team."

Wrong. At least in part. Race had nothing to do with it. But money did. OJ just got the best defense that money could buy. Just like Phil Spector and other white celebrities. But because they're white, you can't accuse them of playing the race card, can you?

Race may have played a part in how Americans saw the case, but OJ got off because he had enough money to hire people who knew how to make the prosecutors look incompetent. That's a fact.

"And before anyone jumps in with the argument of "That's the language of the black comunity", know this; Only the black community in the US has their own ethnic-based dialect. If one is trying to isolate themselves from the community, well speech patterns is the first step."

Wrong. You obviously know nothing about linguistics or anything else.

Not all African Americans speak in the dialect you've mentioned. And many who do - or can - do so selectively, depending on circumstances. Sorry, but every black professional in business meetings that I've attended has spoken American Business English. That's a fact.

It's not necessarily a question of willful isolation from others. Education may be a part of it. People who are white with lower education levels often have different patterns of speech than those with higher education levels. African Americans are no different from whites in this regard. Part of it is the age of the speaker; hell, I can't understand some young white teens any better than I can understand some young black ones. And part of it is comfort level - you speak differently around family and friends than you do in the workplace, for example.

Oh, and by the way, guess what? New Yorkers speak differently from Southerners, who speak differently from Minnesotans, who speak differently from Californians, who speak differently from Chicagoans. Damn all those folks for not wanting to conform to standard American English!

"The black and latino communities want to keep claiming that they are the victims of prejudice, but what have they done to stop gang violence? Have they formed community watch programs? No. Have they founded successful youth organizations to give kids an alternative? Some, but not most and not all."

Wrong. Black and Latino communities across the country have formed community watch programs in their communities. That's a fact.

Successful youth organizations? Even in South Florida, there are groups where successful black professional men mentor young black men. That's a fact.

Guess what? Not all black kids are gang-bangers. Not all Latino kids are gang-bangers. That's a fact.

Guess what? Blacks and Latinos are not the only ones involved with gang violence, either. There are young white kids who get sucked in as well. That's a fact.

"With those accused people in Jena may be black, I doubt that their race has anything to do with it."

Wrong. What those kids did was wrong, period. But how many white kids who beat up black kids in Jena have been charged with attempted murder in adult court? The problem in Jena is that as bad as the assault was, the reaction of the Jena prosecutor was disproportionate to the crime. (That's not just my opinion, either. The appeals court wasn't too happy about the misapplication of the law in this case, either.) And that wouldn't have happened if the six kids had been white.

That's what caused the African American community in Jena to get upset. And they were upset before Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton came to town. That's a fact.

Have we come a long ways in 40 years? Thankfully yes.

But as your attitude shows, we haven't come nearly far enough.

And that's a fact.

coyotedude

Oct 2, 2007, 2:10 PM

When was the last time someone heard of any racially motivated attacks by whites against blacks?

Here are a few links, and not just for violence directed against African Americans:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/09/13/2032465.htm

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1011734&srvc=home

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20070328/ai_n18761005

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/local/story.asp?ID=210337

http://www.townonline.com/cambridge/homepage/x822997415

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,230105,00.html

I'm sure you could find more, if you really wanted to. It happens all the time. And these are just the ones that make the news.

And that's a fact.

darkeyes

Oct 2, 2007, 2:14 PM

I stand corrected. You're not clueless. Instead, you're willfully ignorant.

That's worse, in my opinion.

You call it like you see it. Fine. But you see it wrong.

I don't even know where to begin. I'll just pick a few things.

"That was how O.J. got away with murder....by playing the race card. That and being able to hire an expensive legal team."

Wrong. At least in part. Race had nothing to do with it. But money did. OJ just got the best defense that money could buy. Just like Phil Spector and other white celebrities. But because they're white, you can't accuse them of playing the race card, can you?

Race may have played a part in how Americans saw the case, but OJ got off because he had enough money to hire people who knew how to make the prosecutors look incompetent. That's a fact.

"And before anyone jumps in with the argument of "That's the language of the black comunity", know this; Only the black community in the US has their own ethnic-based dialect. If one is trying to isolate themselves from the community, well speech patterns is the first step."

Wrong. You obviously know nothing about linguistics or anything else.

Not all African Americans speak in the dialect you've mentioned. And many who do - or can - do so selectively, depending on circumstances. Sorry, but every black professional in business meetings that I've attended has spoken American Business English. That's a fact.

It's not necessarily a question of willful isolation from others. Education may be a part of it. People who are white with lower education levels often have different patterns of speech than those with higher education levels. African Americans are no different from whites in this regard. Part of it is the age of the speaker; hell, I can't understand some young white teens any better than I can understand some young black ones. And part of it is comfort level - you speak differently around family and friends than you do in the workplace, for example.

Oh, and by the way, guess what? New Yorkers speak differently from Southerners, who speak differently from Minnesotans, who speak differently from Californians, who speak differently from Chicagoans. Damn all those folks for not wanting to conform to standard American English!

"The black and latino communities want to keep claiming that they are the victims of prejudice, but what have they done to stop gang violence? Have they formed community watch programs? No. Have they founded successful youth organizations to give kids an alternative? Some, but not most and not all."

Wrong. Black and Latino communities across the country have formed community watch programs in their communities. That's a fact.

Successful youth organizations? Even in South Florida, there are groups where successful black professional men mentor young black men. That's a fact.

Guess what? Not all black kids are gang-bangers. Not all Latino kids are gang-bangers. That's a fact.

Guess what? Blacks and Latinos are not the only ones involved with gang violence, either. There are young white kids who get sucked in as well. That's a fact.

"With those accused people in Jena may be black, I doubt that their race has anything to do with it."

Wrong. What those kids did was wrong, period. But how many white kids who beat up black kids in Jena have been charged with attempted murder in adult court? The problem in Jena is that as bad as the assault was, the reaction of the Jena prosecutor was disproportionate to the crime. And that wouldn't have happened if the six kids had been white.

That's what caused the African American community in Jena to get upset. And they were upset before Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton came to town. That's a fact.

Have we come a long ways in 40 years? Thankfully yes.

But as your attitude shows, we haven't come nearly far enough.

And that's a fact.
OOO Coyote babes..u narked... ya don like higgerant sods at all do ya???? x