Bisexual in a World With More Than Two Genders

[Brian]

By Tara-Michelle Ziniuk

http://main.bisexual.com/forum/images/misc/miscstuff/author10.jpg
Many of the world’s cultures recognize more than two genders. The notion that there are those of us who do not fit precisely into either a male or female role has historically been accepted by many groups.

- from ‘A Native American Perspective on the Theory of Gender Continuum’

Personal Trajectory

Years ago, as a teenager, I was content with a bisexual identity. I was specific in what “types” of people I was attracted to in men and women (often I was drawn to masculine women and feminine men), and what I liked had a certain comfortable consistency. Over time I found that I was becoming drawn to traditionally masculine people of both genders— and began to wonder— what was so “bi” about my preferences if the characteristics that were compelling about a person were so close to each other—regardless of the person’s sex?

I became more immersed in both queer and activist culture, and by the end of my teenage years the communities I was involved in became more complicatedly gendered. I had my first close transgendered friend around the time I was eighteen, and became aware of the many trans people in my communities. Soon after, my first girlfriend came out as FtM transsexual (Female to Male.) For many of the young queer people around me, our peers coming out as trans led them to question their own genders. For me, it had me question my sexual orientation, a sexual orientation that I had previously had quite a bit of pride in.

If “bi” literally was to mean “two,” how was I to identify with a sexuality that found me attracted to men and women, both trans and non—trans? Did my preferences including ‘man’ and ‘woman’ have me meet the criteria for bisexuality? Is that what I wanted? Who made this decision? Did bisexuality leave space for me to be attracted to people who identified as both or neither gender, genderqueer or two—spirited? Did, perhaps, the term “pansexual” (definition: One who exhibits or suggests a sexuality that has many different forms, objects, and outlets. One who exhibits many forms of sexual expression), as some suggested, more accurately fit my particular needs and situation? However, regardless of birth-gender or transsexuality, I was still attracted to people who featured similar characteristics in their presentation and personality—my sexuality wasn’t confined by terms of bodies, gender or sex. I certainly wasn’t attracted to all kinds of people either, or even interested in being sexual in a whole variety of ways, as I felt might be indicated should I accept and allow the identification of ‘pansexual.’

Rhetorical Quiz

Throughout the process of becoming content with a self-identification there are, literally, many “questions you ask yourself.” For better or for worse, you are, inevitably, asked many more questions by other people—whether it is any of their concern or not, coming from a place of good intent or not. It is not uncommon for me, or I imagine for others who embody a complicated sexual identity, to find yourself answering other peoples’ questions with things you’ve never consciously given thought to before. Is that true? Do I think/feel/desire that? The pseudo-quiz that follows is not intended to provide answers (“You answered mostly ‘B,’ you are bisexual!”), but instead to provide material for contemplation. How do you perceive yourself and your desires, how would you answer the onslaught of questions having taken a moment to reflect upon them?


Are you bisexual for being attracted to two genders?
When you say or hear “both genders” does that include trans men and women?
Can you be bisexual if you are attracted to two genders, but those genders do not fall gracefully into the categories of “men” and “women”?
Are you bisexual because you are attracted to two “types” of women?
Should gender be interchangeable with any other defining feature that makes someone bi? Is the emphasis here on the bi or the sexual?
Are you bisexual for liking and engaging in sex in two particular ways?
Where do genderqueer or genderfluid identities fit into our notions of bisexuality? (Defining “genderqueer” or “genderfluid” as a terms which suggest that aside from transgender identities that are rooted in ‘man’ and ‘woman’ that there are also people who’s gender identities transgress those boundries; who may identify as neither or both genders, or with a notion of an alternate or ‘third’ gender. These terms suggest also that there are individuals who are comfortable with, or who have an expectation of a gender identity that continues to shift and redefine itself.)
If bisexual people are to be at the forefront of the struggles against bi-phobia and homophobia, shouldn’t fighting transphobia and all gender-based oppression also be a part of the bisexual struggle?
Furthermore, broadening the scope of this non-quiz—does answering any of these questions imply that there are universal bisexual values?
Who creates those values, is it the bisexual-identified majority? Is there a bisexual majority?

I don’t write this quiz, question my own relationship to bisexuality, or imply that there are bisexual norms as so to be condescending, but more as food for thought. Can there be an answer to any of these questions? Where do you draw the line? And how can we accept that that line is not drawn at the same point for all bi-identified people?

Third-Parties

My friend Jackson, a bisexual transman in his 30’s, shared his opinions on the intersections of trans and bi communities, specifically regarding trans people within bi communities. Jackson suggests that there are trans people, himself included, who he knows who identify as bisexual, as opposed to pansexual or a “newer” or “more complex” orientation. In a day-to-day sense, transgender people are often questioned so much, that they might chose to not want to “have one more thing to explain.”

When asked if he thinks the bisexual community has been accepting and inclusive he says “Sure. But while they’ve been accepting of trans people in bi spaces and of trans people taking part in bi organizing, they haven’t necessarily accepted that to many bisexual trans people, bisexuality is secondary to their transsexuality.” He says that for him, coming out as trans has been a priority in his overall identity, and it’s been much more pressing for him to actively seek out trans community and allies than it has been to seek out bi communities and allies. He says that while he appreciates having the bi community, it is secondary to him. Jackson also highlights that his priorities are not only to seek out trans communities, but that his political commitments draw him to other issues (than bi or trans issues) as far as organizing goes, and that often those are of a higher or more immediate importance to him. His biggest complaint of the bi communities he’s encountered is that they’ve not embraced that being bisexual, or part of a bi community is not going to be the biggest, most important thing in the lives of all bisexuals. The reason for this? Jackson suggests that there is a certain privilege that plays into it, that bi “scenes”—groups and organizations—are primarily white and non-trans and that perhaps these truths shape how people are able to use their time, or prioritize their political commitments.

A colleague, Alice, has quite a different ‘two cents’ to offer when asked about bi/trans intersections and struggles. She is not trans-identified herself, however, she is the partner of a trans person and bi-identified. For her, inclusion in bi community has been a challenge. Alice claims there is a tendency for communities (bi, queer, straight) to weed out what’s difficult for them, difficult to deal with, or to understand. Her relationship not fitting neatly into people’s expectations, has been a problem in the various communities she’s tried to connect with. Alice says she wishes the bisexual community would “embrace the divisions between us and our complicated relationships.” At this point, that has not been her experience.

Another friend, Rayanne, a trans woman, again bisexual in self-identification tells me her main concern in this discussion is how people—again of gay/lesbian, queer, bi and het communities—assume her sexual orientation based on her being trans. “There is never a question in people’s minds, they all assume I am attracted to men exclusively. I was bi before my transition, and that hasn’t changed. I’m not saying that people’s sexualities don’t fluctuate, and can’t be fluid and changing, but that hasn’t been the case for me. I really resent that my gender identification makes people think they know things about me, never mind those being things that aren’t true. It’s a very classically heterosexist view, that you can just decide that you know who someone else loves or sleeps with because of their gender. People, especially queer and bi people, should be able to think beyond that by now.”

During our talk, her friend who is in the room pipes in, “It’s so illogical to me! There are so many similarities between trans and bi communities, and trans and bi struggles generally, it just makes no sense that things are so divisive.”

And so

I regret that this article has been a lot of complaints. In that it’s a bit of a primer in my head, a lot of food for thought, it makes sense to me that it would wind up being such. It’s cliché to say, but I like to think of this as a starting point for conversation, and not the be—all end—all. Ultimately, writing this has been about bridging issues and individuals and communities that are important to me, in what I can only hope has been a meaningful way. Here, I’ve made an initial attempt to show the potential strength in connecting similar struggles, and the strengths that come from a broad range of experience, and from the challenges of that broadness. I think that last comment is true, that there is a general failure to embrace the things that are easier to divide us. It’s my hope that this conversation extends to a range of the places that queer, bisexual, transsexual, pansexual and otherwise gendered and sexual people have discussions. I hope that this conversation happens in the many forums that it’s content exists as an issue, that some progress can be made. I’d like for the theoretic ‘next time’ I interview people on this topic, for their statements to begin with “The great thing about….”

(c) Copryight 2005 Tara-Michelle Ziniuk

Tara-Michelle Ziniuk is a Toronto/Montreal writer, performer, activist, supervillan and princess. She and her alter-ego have been writing the column 'Lydia Lane is Not My Name' for Trade: Queer Things Magazine (http://www.tradequeerthings.com/main.html) for the past three years. She writes, rants, lectures, works, complains and fixes on topics of sex, gender, poverty, sex worker rights, housing and harm reduction.

[driventoboth]

I began to shun the term "bisexual" recently in favor of "sexually non-polar". While this can't be completely accurate (I don't have sex with everyone, for pete's sake), I felt is describes how I feel about the notion that a person is forced to be "either/or".
In a world that asks, "Are you straight or gay?", we are left with few easy answers. Strictly speaking, gender is a matter of equipment. Whether you were born with it, had it grafted on or cut off, your genitalia determine what you "are". What you are attracted to is a different matter all together.
I struggled for years to determine where the bottle would stop once it finished spinning...until a friend provided me with a profound epiphany. He said that there are no absolutes in sex. "No one is 100% heterosexual (no matter how much they may profess to be). No one is 100% homosexual...and you will drive yourself crazy trying to maintain strict 50/50 bisexuality. We are all simply sexual."
I've never found myself attracted to transgendered individuals, personally. Moreover, I've found I prefer feminine women and masculine men. Drag shows may be entertaining to me but I don't want to take the performer home with me at closing time.

Then again...that's me.

If "bisexuals" have one thing over others I think it would be a respect for the sexuality (or non-sexuality) of others. You won't find us running down "those faggots" or "those breeders" near as much as they run each other down.
I don't measure other's sexual preferences or habits against mine...or mine against others. Accepting yourself goes hand-in-hand with accepting others.

[wanderingrichard]

these musings and ramblings are just that.. i'm still working through some of the points in this article, but;

i've been reading multiple articles here on our site that almost always address the same issues.. mainly the ' they don't understand us or are unfair to us" complaints about other orientations remarks about us bi's. it's almost become an anthem for the whole community. here, now, we have a totally different spin.

reading this article, i've learned a new term,"pansexual" and after reading the definition, am starting to wonder if we arent all really oriented that way here, becuase "bi' just seems to constricting for many of the members i've met here. we are too radical in our thinking and too diverse in our tastes in partners, friends and loved ones, for such a simple neat box to be built around us.

also, has anyone else noticed that each orientation other than het seems to be singing the same tune? or that the fewer in the community, the less emphasis on orientation and the more on real issues and articles of life that actually mean more to them than just a label?

i've known many trans people. actually dated two and loved both of them dearly. and they held true to what was mentioned here, maybe it was because they had the freedom of spirit handed to them again when they shed the shell of their former lives, and awoke one day after years of painful surgeries, shots and countless other things we make them go thru by law here in our sometimes dis-United States, as the person they have always felt they truly are.

somewhwere, on another site, several years back, i read an article that said that 90% of the guys who date transgendered women [ mtf] are bi or heavily bi curious. and that the best way to treat her was as she saw herself, as a lady and nothng less or else. i have to supose this is true also for FtM transformations, since i have never dated anyone from this side of trans.

i think what i'm getting at here is that maybe trans folks have it over all of us who whine about the 'they dont play fair" crap that gets dished our way,regardless of which alternate orientation we are, becuase they have come to grips and are totally comfortable with who they really are, and have put the trivialization behind them, and generally, we as bi might not have just yet gotten there in many cases.

maybe, it's time we as a community moved on away from stooping to the levels of our rivals and enemies, the hiding in public and all the rest, and actually started to actively do something? what? hell, i don't know. maybe our firneds in other countries who have stronger communities can help us find our way ?

remember, the article was there to make us think, and this is my way of sharing my thoughts on it.

[feel free to email me @ my yahoo account if you want to talk about this some more, but dont want to post to the board.]
rich

[bigregory]

Ok im not sure on this topic.
As for the quiz,the one to think about,
i answered no to all the questions.
It must be my version of being "pansexual".
Im not transphobic,its just not my pansexual thing.
quote;
During our talk, her friend who is in the room pipes in, “It’s so illogical to me! There are so many similarities between trans and bi communities, and trans and bi struggles generally, it just makes no sense that things are so divisive.”

I dont see the link,maybe just a thread..
:2cents:
I do love being PANSEXUAL
Can't wait for pansexual.com.


Big KISS to all the transexuals out there,
live in peace :upside:

[nakedambrosia]

I'm glad that you started your article from a Native American Perspective....some Native American cultures view "soft men" as sacred beings who eventually become shamans in their communities. This duality is very much in tune with the duality of the Creator: male/female dualities. If they mesh together in this physical world then this duality becomes very special. Many "Bi-Sexuals" don't even understand their gift. It is a gift, though that has to be discovered from within. Please read Shamanic Voices by Joan Halifax, PhD ISBN 0 14 019.348 0

[Bi-ten]

I'm glad that you started your article from a Native American Perspective....some Native American cultures view "soft men" as sacred beings who eventually become shamans in their communities. This duality is very much in tune with the duality of the Creator: male/female dualities. If they mesh together in this physical world then this duality becomes very special. Many "Bi-Sexuals" don't even understand their gift. It is a gift, though that has to be discovered from within. Please read Shamanic Voices by Joan Halifax, PhD ISBN 0 14 019.348 0

Beautifully said Nakedambrosia,

I think as human beings in western society we have forgotten that sexuality itself is a gift from God and our lovemaking a tribute to God. Rather for many, we are taught that sex is something to be hidden from the light...and rendered unacceptable unless the strict rules of play are followed.

Yet we know within our being that these rules are not the rules of God, they are the rules of man. As such these rules are fundimentally flawed depending on the agenda of the rule-makers!

We are the two-spirited, the ying and yang, the lovers of all beings. What greater gift could we have?

[nakedambrosia]

Bi-Ten: Thank you for your post. Sexuality is a central aspect of spirituality in many cultures, such as Tantra. And I don't mean the western, "California" "New Age" Tantra. If you really want to know about Tantra read Tantric Quest by Daniel Odier, ISBN 0-89281-620-1 Excellent book on Tantra. Sex is equally present in sacred rites of Witchcraft. One could continue and follow sexual rites throughout human spiritual history. Androgeny, though, is fascinating. We all have a duality, we all possess something from the male and female. This duality mirrors the Creator: God and Goddess which I believe you have heard about. True spiritual practices include this duality. However, the three major religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam don't. But I will state an exception for Judaism: The secret teachings of the Kabbalah explores the connection of "Divine Creation" with "Physical Creation" at our level. Read Ten Luminous Emanations Volume 1 and 2 by Rabbi Yehuda Ashlag, and Sefer Yetzirah, The Book of Creation by Aryeh Kaplan. I have studied sexuality in the context of Creation and spirituality (to include practical ritual) in great depth. Sexuality, then, cannot be cut out of life as major religious doctrines want us to believe. Without sex, all creatures would cease to exist. Now, the duality of bisexuality (before I really get lost in metaphysics!) LOL. Bisexuality, I feel, is a gift, just like some cultures have discovered relating to identifying bisexuals as sacred beings and grooming them as future shamans. There is a power within both estrogen and sperm which contains the life force. As both male and female meet closer those powers get stronger. They get stronger relating to ceremonial practices, such as healing ceremonies. That is about as personal as I want to get on such a public site. I hope that I offered a more in depth expansion on the subject.

[DeafF2M]

I'm a FTM transsexual and I am finding myself relating to everthing that Jackson said his experience has been like.

I'm a very masculine guy, but I lack the genitals of a biogically-born man. Because of that I'm not seen as a "real" man --- or that I'm the "best of both worlds," which as cool as it may sound to some folks, it comes across as something kind of freakish.

Well written article. I find it to be quite accurate from the standpoint of TG/TS people and their partners.

Thanks for bringing up the topic.

[Ansil III]

i am still confused by it all. i think that we are creating too many terms and confusing the situation even further. the article was interesting but seriously, it left me bewildered, especially since i am still in the process of questioning my sexuality. i have been identifying my as bi for some time now, but my sexuality quite frankly is not all that important in my life. i have my work and my research to occupy my time and provide comfort. so to all my friends, life is short, enjoy it. i however like the expresion "sexually non polar." i think it best describes me. take care all.

[Sex in Words]

i'd love to suck a cock but ive never done it. any advice?

Might be better to ask your question in the forums...

[Brian]

Bookie's post was deleted because it has no place in this thread.

- Drew :paw:

[CruzinBi]

Do we really "pick" our preference? After experiencing sex with both sexes , I discovered that it was not important to me if it was a man, a woman or multiple partners. It all felt right, the sensations were just different. I enjoy the contrast sex with a woman offers as opposed to sex with a man (and yes this does include our wonderful Trans brothers and sister).

I think we all know the degree of bisexuality we all are. Some are occasionally bi, some can maintain 50/50 mix. I can talk about myself and that my percentage swings back and forth depending on the relationships I am in. But I do not think that is important, we are all sexual creatures and will go for what we crave.

The problem is society which requires a black and white answer to your sexuality. When your straight friends find out you had one gay experience, you are labeled as gay. When your gay friends find out you have had your first hetero expereince, they tell you you are not gay. I know early on that i was attracted to both sexes, it wasn't till my late 20s that I really felt comfortable with it. And basically told society to deal with it.

So be strong in your bisexuality and be proud of who you are. Just think of the greater expereinces of people you will have. Our Straight and Gay friends will not experience the variety and openness that being Bi brings.

Enjoy Life,

Marc

[CompletelyBi]

Even though my screen name may appear as hypocritical to what I am about to say, I firmly believe in my stance and wish that more people on the site would subscribe to it:

Why is it necessary to label one's self as "pansexual", "trisexual", "omnisexual" or whatever other new-fangled term some bored individual creates? Does it really matter in the grander scope of who you are, that a specific term be constructed and custom fitted to you for being who you are? Do you really feel it necessary to string together long-worded explanations of your sexual preferences down to the smallest quirk? And does it really matter that people know the exact taste and flavor of your sexual life-style? I don't know about you, but simply calling myself bisexual is enough of an often socially difficult label to wear. I don't feel it necessary to delve deeper and over-think things.

In the most basic nutshell, we are all bisexual in one way or another; Everyone on this site. Just because you may be attracted to both men and women with similar features, or transvestites, or pre or post-ops, you find it necessary to specifically carve a smaller sub-niche in the bisexual life-style. Why? Is it to have a lesser-known, elite identity that fewer people possess? Is there a need to feel special and separated from the rest of your peers? If you ask me, I say quit doddling with menial mini titles. Do what you do and don't feel the need to categorize yourself. Life is too complicated as it is, without adding further unnecessary labels.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm bisexual... Who needs a snazzy, complicated term for the free, open, and wonderfully diverse life-style we live? Not me. Just be bi and enjoy it.

[nakedambrosia]

CompletelyBi, you are right: everyone on this site is bi, in various degrees +/-; this fact mirrors our human duality, male/female. Society wants neat little niches of heterosexual couples and anything other upsets the established convention of "straight" people so labels are made up. By various degrees, some people are more so than others. The gift of bisexuality that I mention above represents those in greater degree; those were the people identified by some societies to become shamans. However, those who consider themselves "straight" in our society fail to identify their male/female duality. I bet many "straight" people sometimes secretely dream of their bi fantasies.

[nakedambrosia]

CompletelyBi, you are right: everyone on this site is bi, in various degrees +/-; this fact mirrors our human duality, male/female. Society wants neat little niches of heterosexual couples and anything other upsets the established convention of "straight" people so labels are made up. By various degrees, some people are more so than others. The gift of bisexuality that I mention above represents those in greater degree; those were the people identified by some societies to become shamans. However, those who consider themselves "straight" in our society fail to identify their male/female duality. I bet many "straight" people sometimes secretely dream of their bi fantasies.

[nakedambrosia]

oops, the reply was posted twice! Don't know how that happened. Drew, help!

[Sex in Words]

Even though my screen name may appear as hypocritical to what I am about to say, I firmly believe in my stance and wish that more people on the site would subscribe to it:

Why is it necessary to label one's self as "pansexual", "trisexual", "omnisexual" or whatever other new-fangled term some bored individual creates? Does it really matter in the grander scope of who you are, that a specific term be constructed and custom fitted to you for being who you are? Do you really feel it necessary to string together long-worded explanations of your sexual preferences down to the smallest quirk? And does it really matter that people know the exact taste and flavor of your sexual life-style? I don't know about you, but simply calling myself bisexual is enough of an often socially difficult label to wear. I don't feel it necessary to delve deeper and over-think things.

In the most basic nutshell, we are all bisexual in one way or another; Everyone on this site. Just because you may be attracted to both men and women with similar features, or transvestites, or pre or post-ops, you find it necessary to specifically carve a smaller sub-niche in the bisexual life-style. Why? Is it to have a lesser-known, elite identity that fewer people possess? Is there a need to feel special and separated from the rest of your peers? If you ask me, I say quit doddling with menial mini titles. Do what you do and don't feel the need to categorize yourself. Life is too complicated as it is, without adding further unnecessary labels.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm bisexual... Who needs a snazzy, complicated term for the free, open, and wonderfully diverse life-style we live? Not me. Just be bi and enjoy it.

But what gives you the right to say that the term "bisexual" is the one that is to be accepted and "the norm?" Where is the sexual and gender idenification dictionary, and who says that new additions to the lexicon cannot come up, as identities change?
The term bisexual might be commonplace now, but it certainly wasn't some time ago. You'd have just been called gay.
I cannot think of anything that is more personal and subject to individual needs and desires than self-identity. I don't want some other person determining who I am. I determine who I am, noone else's box holds me in.
This has nothing to do with wanting to be elitist or complicated, whereas it has everything to do with owning yourself.

[CompletelyBi]

Wow, good retorts from tradeqt and nakedambrosia. My opinion still stands as my own, just as yours may, but there is definately a degree of courtesy and respect in being able to post a reply as eloquent as these two. Thanks for a great short debate and ACTUALLY validating your stances quite well.

Enjoy everything that you crave to the fullest, regardless of what it may be called... Bi, bi :)

[Sex in Words]

Friendly and open-minded debate...one of the many joys of this site!

[costablanca]

I think I like the term multisexual best. Bisexual has a bad ring if you are a guy. :grouphug:

[Driver 8]

Why is it necessary to label one's self as "pansexual", "trisexual", "omnisexual" or whatever other new-fangled term some bored individual creates?
With all respect to those who've disagreed, my position is closer to that of CompletelyBi. When I hear someone say "I'm attracted to both men and women, but I'm not bisexual," I wonder just what their problem with the word "bisexual" is - especially because so often such a statement is followed up by trashing those who do use the term "bisexual." "Unlike me, bisexuals are only interested in sex." "Unlike me, bisexuals don't support gay and lesbian rights." "Unlike me, bisexuals don't acknowledge the problems with the gender system." (This article, thankfully, doesn't do that.)

Carol Queen wrote a great article about the bisexual label (http://www.black-rose.com/cuiru/archive/2-4/queen.html) for Cuir, and I would quote every word here if it seemed polite to do so, but I'll limit myself to this sentence: "For heaven's sake, what does "bisexual" mean -- in sexual terms, anyway -- if it doesn't describe what these people do?"

[grizzle45]

I agree with Driver8 (thatnks for the link to the article. it's fantastic!). I don't understand why people shun the word bisexual. I've never heard anyone give a reason why the word bisexual is any less applicable than "pansexual" or "multisexual". To me pansexual would include everything; rocks, trees, animals, etc.
I suppose part of my conviction is political. Identity can be a banner under which people congregate. This allows people of similar lifestyles to meet others like themselves, and it creates a mass visibility. However do we expect a third or fourth option to be accepted as valid if those who might be a member of that community refuse to acknowledge its existence? If we who would self identify as bisexual shun the world or refuse to posit an identity, however oversimplified it might be, of non-monosexuality, then the identity will never gain ground.
I'm sure that someone who identities as homosexual would agree that the phrase does not indicate every nuance of thier sexuality. Seuxality is indeed complex and fluid and we can split hairs all day.
I think the first step is to gain visibility as non-monosexuals, as people who are attracted to both sexes.
Hmm, I just realized as I wrote that, there are more than two sexes, aren't they?

[CountryLover]

Bisexual works for me. I'm a simple person - with great complexities. It just gets all tangled up if I try to nitpick it apart and put a label on each piece.

Bisexual makes a great umbrella label that covers a huge gamut of sexual behaviors, urges and needs.

[Mallory-bi-cd]

I'm a FTM transsexual and I am finding myself relating to everthing that Jackson said his experience has been like.

I'm a very masculine guy, but I lack the genitals of a biogically-born man. Because of that I'm not seen as a "real" man --- or that I'm the "best of both worlds," which as cool as it may sound to some folks, it comes across as something kind of freakish.

Well written article. I find it to be quite accurate from the standpoint of TG/TS people and their partners.

Thanks for bringing up the topic.



It is unfortunate that even now in the 21st century we still use labels to define one another. As far as being a "real man" or "real woman" goes genitilia is something we are born with but not always what we choose. Even if a person has the genitilia that they came with when exiting the womb (males especially) the term "real man" can be hurtful when that which we are born with is under developed or not as functional as the majority. Just as much as bisexuality or lesbianism is more accepted in woman than being gay ir bisexual is in men.

Another challenge of the transgendered community is that those of us who are m-f are not as easily accepted or recognized as those that are f-m. I used to go to the only bar in my city that catered to people with alternate lifestyles. I would only go there while en femme. In my heart of hearts I AM a woman when fully dressed and made over. The bar was a nice place to go to for a while, It was cozy and friendly but then it changed locations and became cold and more sterile. I would use the womens washroom to do my business and check my makeup not to get my jollies. In the old place it wasn't too much of a problem but in the new location it was. Even though there were some genetically born females who looked more masculine than I do when not en femme I would be singled out and addressed in the masculine term "sir" by the bouncer and told I was to use the mens room. This in itself is a form of discrimmination within a culture that wants acceptance and tolerance. To be made to use the mens room only serves as a painful reminder that I am not a "real woman" because I lack the genitilia. We are what and who we are not by what we are born with but what we feel inside of ourselves.

I definitely show my genetic masculine side when I am at my job or in places where and when necessary but in the privacy of my own home I am always en femme. If I could only make one wish it would be to have shapeshifting powers so that I could be what I wanted when I desired or when necessary. Of course I would be a female most of the time.

[weirdwombat]

Though attracted to people of all/no genders, I call myself bisexual, as that is the most common term used. Many monosexual people don't really understand what bisexual means, I think it would be even more confusing to start using other terms such as pan-, omni-, mulit-sexual, even if they are more accurate.

Let's face it, most of the general public lives in a bi-gendered world and even if they know a little about transsexuals or transvestites, most people would still see them in a bi-gendered light, ie they are just wantiing to become or dress like the opposite sex.

I think much of the general population sees transexuality as a disease, views transsexuals with a mixture of curiousity and pity, and considers themselves open-minded in doing so. Anything more "exotic" than TVs or TSs is not really recognised by the general public. The fact that not everyone fits, or is trying to fit, to this bipolar model is lost on them.

I don't think the general public really understands the complexities of gender indentity, that alone the complexities of a sexual identity encompassing the complexities of gender identity!

[DiamondDog]

Though attracted to people of all/no genders, I call myself bisexual, as that is the most common term used. Many monosexual people don't really understand what bisexual means, I think it would be even more confusing to start using other terms such as pan-, omni-, mulit-sexual, even if they are more accurate.

Let's face it, most of the general public lives in a bi-gendered world and even if they know a little about transsexuals or transvestites, most people would still see them in a bi-gendered light, ie they are just wantiing to become or dress like the opposite sex.

I think much of the general population sees transexuality as a disease, views transsexuals with a mixture of curiousity and pity, and considers themselves open-minded in doing so. Anything more "exotic" than TVs or TSs is not really recognised by the general public. The fact that not everyone fits, or is trying to fit, to this bipolar model is lost on them.

I don't think the general public really understands the complexities of gender indentity, that alone the complexities of a sexual identity encompassing the complexities of gender identity!

Agreed. But this is why I'll sometimes use queer as a label.

[Doggie_Wood]

I began to shun the term "bisexual" recently in favor of "sexually non-polar". While this can't be completely accurate (I don't have sex with everyone, for pete's sake), I felt is describes how I feel about the notion that a person is forced to be "either/or".
.................................................. ..........................................
If "bisexuals" have one thing over others I think it would be a respect for the sexuality (or non-sexuality) of others. You won't find us running down "those faggots" or "those breeders" near as much as they run each other down.
I don't measure other's sexual preferences or habits against mine...or mine against others. Accepting yourself goes hand-in-hand with accepting others.


Very well said - acceptance is the key to most all dilemmas that would occur in one's life - it is a strong yet compationate action.
Bill once said "Acceptance is the answer to all my problems...."

[12voltman59]

This might be a previously posted article--but it is a good one---it was about time something new got put up--and since it predated my becoming a member--I had not seen it anyhow---thanks for posting it----and it does raise all kinds of interesting questions and topics that even if I had read it when it was first posted--since I was rather new to all of this--at least my exploration of "bisexuality"--I would not have understood much of what the author discussed--now I can appreciate the article now more than I could have at that point----

Thanks for posting it

[max617]

I think MtF ladies are so sexy!

[ghytifrdnr]

I think as human beings in western society we have forgotten that sexuality itself is a gift from God and our lovemaking a tribute to God. Rather for many, we are taught that sex is something to be hidden from the light...and rendered unacceptable unless the strict rules of play are followed.

Yet we know within our being that these rules are not the rules of God, they are the rules of man. As such these rules are fundimentally flawed depending on the agenda of the rule-makers!


A great truth from Bi-Ten. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

.

[shiver]

everydayu seeing the same article posted made me wonder why bother returning, but I was confident that I'd eventually see a change, and here it is, something new. The question is, when does this article expire?

[sweetsugamommi]

Hi, Completely:

I TOTALLY agree with everything you've said, and can't put it any better! Also, although I would love to have the honor of experiencing a relationship with someone who identifies as transsexual, I haven't as yet. But if I did/do, I wouldn't begin calling myself "pansexual" or any "other sexual". Bisexual is how I identify, because bisexual is what I am!:flag4:


Even though my screen name may appear as hypocritical to what I am about to say, I firmly believe in my stance and wish that more people on the site would subscribe to it:

Why is it necessary to label one's self as "pansexual", "trisexual", "omnisexual" or whatever other new-fangled term some bored individual creates? Does it really matter in the grander scope of who you are, that a specific term be constructed and custom fitted to you for being who you are? Do you really feel it necessary to string together long-worded explanations of your sexual preferences down to the smallest quirk? And does it really matter that people know the exact taste and flavor of your sexual life-style? I don't know about you, but simply calling myself bisexual is enough of an often socially difficult label to wear. I don't feel it necessary to delve deeper and over-think things.

In the most basic nutshell, we are all bisexual in one way or another; Everyone on this site. Just because you may be attracted to both men and women with similar features, or transvestites, or pre or post-ops, you find it necessary to specifically carve a smaller sub-niche in the bisexual life-style. Why? Is it to have a lesser-known, elite identity that fewer people possess? Is there a need to feel special and separated from the rest of your peers? If you ask me, I say quit doddling with menial mini titles. Do what you do and don't feel the need to categorize yourself. Life is too complicated as it is, without adding further unnecessary labels.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm bisexual... Who needs a snazzy, complicated term for the free, open, and wonderfully diverse life-style we live? Not me. Just be bi and enjoy it.

[RockGardener]

Ok, bear with me. I have an image that I would like to share with you....

Monosexual, unisexual, whatever... You put out one hand, you get one thing.
Bisexual.....................................You put out two hands, you get everything that exists between the two hands.

Being bisexual doesn't have to mean just that you like M and F, it can mean that you like everything from M to F.

[ghytifrdnr]

Ok, bear with me. I have an image that I would like to share with you....

Monosexual, unisexual, whatever... You put out one hand, you get one thing.
Bisexual.....................................You put out two hands, you get everything that exists between the two hands.

Being bisexual doesn't have to mean just that you like M and F, it can mean that you like everything from M to F.


Oh, that's very good too! :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

[Papelucho]

Thanks for the new article.
The questions made me think, and since we are gifted people with our sexualities, it's important for us to do that, and discuss it! I identify as a bisexual because that's what seems like me...that word and the idea is what fits who I am.

When others identify themselves as pansexual or any other new term, they're not doing it for me, or for anyone else, they're doing it for themselves. It's what fits who they are, and that's the true freedom that we're striving for...to be able to identify yourself freely and without judgment.

I love the Native American stories that I've heard, and was so happy to see it come up on this thread. My idea about smaller cultures, like many of the Native American tribes, is that each individual is a real part of the ever changing culture. There is enough room in the world and in the universe for their soul, and their personality to shape everyone else. Differences are regarded with awe and respect.

It is not surprising that there are many different identifications on this site, because this is where the gifted come.

Thanks again for the article. :tongue:

[Bianrky]

As a Native American I don't find this to be a native american analysis, culuturally or spiritually. A Native American Analsis would involve an in depth cultural identification of Native American culture and the bisexual aspects of our culture.
Your analysis is perfectly fine for you. I don't consider myself bisexual because I find myself attracted to two different kind of men. I don't consider that to be bisexual. I find myself attracted all kinds of whole intelectual people who fall almost anywhere in the continuum between feminine and masculine (personally not into either extreme in male or female.
Now in my opinion and based on my knowledge of my people, I know that orgies were common. I know that there were men who had male genitalia etc.. who were part of the female social or sororital band who slept with men. I know that in my culture both nurtuing and the warrior traits are admired regardless of genitalia. I know young men are often bonded in ceremonies naked and in close proximity in the Sweat (only one example). I know that Christianized Indians screwed a lot of that up and today many percieve Native culture to be much more conservative than it really is, among traditional spritualists. I feel this is a Native American persprective.

Onto the socalled "queer activist" community. Maybe where you live bisexuals are considered part of "the movement". Here in South Florida being a bi male is kind of a social death sentence. In fact the "Queer" community center in Palm Beach FLorida is called "The Gay Lesbain COmmunity Center" not GLBT. I am no longer shocked when some log cabin Republican RICH WHITE GAY or Lesbian ACTIVIST tells me "there is no such thing as a bisexual". When one is out and bi and male it can be a really lonely place.

Personally I am really only attracted strongly to other bi men and more attracted to bi women than straight women. Personally? I think everyone has the potential to bi.
If I was on a desert island with another male for the rest of my life that I found attractive wouldn't I be by definition "Gay"?
On the transgendered subject? More power to everyone and everything they are. It does nothing for me. When it does it is usually the mind and personality in that trans person I connect with. Not the fact that they are Trans per se.
Anyway. Just wanted to share a little of my Native American bi perspective and how it might relate to actual Native American culture.

[Bianrky]

Someone asked why is it important how people label each other, using this new fangled term or that?

In my opinion most communities have made it unsafe and challenged to call yourself bisexual. It doesn't fit in. So we look for a label people WILL accept.

[meteast chick]

My only question:

Does Campbell's have this much trouble wth labels?

luv and kisses,
xoxoxoxoxoxo
meteast

[Searchingfortwo]

My only question:

Does Campbell's have this much trouble wth labels?

luv and kisses,
xoxoxoxoxoxo
meteast

Now that was good. Keep in mind that Campbells has somewhere upwards of 57 labels though.
:tongue:

[benjiboy]

Hi. Here we go again. The question of labelling! Why do we see the need to label ourselves? We are what we are! I have been openly bisexual or gay or whatever people want to class me, but to me I am just that, me! We are all individuals and as such have a right to be who we feel we are. There is no need to "conform" to any particular group. There are so many diverse ranges of sexuality, and each has it's own identity. There are enough difficulties facing us without our adding to it. Just be who you want to be, accept others for who they want to be, and wow! What a great world we would be living in. Take care all of you

Pete:flag4:

[La Bestia]

I am not 50% straight and 50% gay, or any other mix of %. I am 100% BISEXUAL and I like masculine and feminine equal much whatever the original gender.
Physical characteristics in any mix in any way appeals to me, and I do not understand why the word "bisexual" is a problem. If I use the word queer, I am always seen and met as homo, unless I speak up. The other words like pan or multisexual ( I am not attracted to animals and kids or cars) :-))), does not say much in my opinion.

[lookn0ver]

lots of good thought. i truly admire people trying to reach some kind of happy medium because i haven't gotta clue what i am and what i am capable of sexually speaking. i love the uniform i was dealt and what it has afforded me to seek out my identity with. and i have had many different kinds of opportunities pass before me ''if ever'' i wanted to partake of. to define myself sexually with a label? ooo! that's hard and i think i'd better stick with hypocrite and backslider and some other choice indications of total ignorance.i see the the person and how they react as i may find myself together with them in ''whatever'' situation i may happen to share. now i may like or hate or be indifferent and on an on who knows and same as they with me.
ignorance is a multi sexual thang.
i have had some sexual persuasions try to KIDNAP me into their lifestyle and i did not appreciate this as i was quite content with what is was i was learning to be at an easy pace..."DON"T RUSH ME BIG BOY! i got lifetimes heaped upon lifetimes to get to where it that i have to go.
i like some of every walk of life i have cosmically been allowed (ready) to meet up with and i admire what it is they stand for and i felt mutually respected for my own choices as well from these lovely creatures. BUT not everybody is so deserving . these other types ,they choose the fast way and haven't a clue and just want to dictate fashion and i am just not buying it.i'll shove it down my own throat thanx when the time is right about what sexuality i want to call myself and i won't be taking it very lightly when it is that i do.as for now i consider anything i meet out there as fair game if i ever want to bump ulgies with it and i feel the last thing i want to do is have labels or limitations clogging my drains.i vote for ''uni~sex.
( that's YOU an I having SEX!)

[GaryGabriella]

I really like the independent thinking of looknOver. Your expressions of being in charge of your own destiny are nicely interwoven with an openness to whatever possibilities may present themselves. You've communicated some of my own desires and beliefs in a way I have not been able to. Thanks to this site, I have been exploring and soon will be experiencing a multi-gender encounter.
As for myself, I am discovering the joys of not fitting into a category. More and more, I'm embracing my feminine side which has laid dormant for too long. I am experiencing the joy a butterfly must feel, spreading her wings to fly for the first time.
In flight,:flag1:
GaryGabriella

[hadra]

i understand and can empathize with people who say they find the term "bisexual" is not as inclusive as other terms, which is why i often prefer to use the word "queer" to label myself, because it leaves room for the gender spectrum and has a political/cultural resonance for me personally.

But all too often, "queer" is still read as lesbian or gay, and i am clearly neither. Given the visibility and credibility issues *still* faced by bisexuals, i also use the term "bi" regularly.

However, i *am* liking Rock Gardener's explanation "from m to f"... would that we could spread that idea around!

Still, i'm always curious as to why bisexuals seem to bear the brunt more than anyone else -- lesbian, gay or straight -- for being responsible for addressing the lack of label inclusivity when it comes to the gender continuum?

In my experience, i've seen the Toronto bi community as a whole be very welcoming to trans folk, and i've heard trans newcomers express pleasant surprise at how comfortable they've felt at meetings and socials.

And i would never expect anyone to put their energies into "bi activism" or any kind of activism that didn't call to them. Not only is it presumptuous, it's also not practical. Volunteer work and activism has to come from the heart, or there's no energy in it at all!

Of course i would understand how trans issues would be closer to transfolks' hearts than other issues, it's a core identity issue that affects every waking moment. i would hope, however, that we could be strong allies, along with everyone else on the Q continuum.

[jamieknyc]

I'm glad that you started your article from a Native American Perspective....some Native American cultures view "soft men" as sacred beings who eventually become shamans in their communities. This duality is very much in tune with the duality of the Creator: male/female dualities. If they mesh together in this physical world then this duality becomes very special. Many "Bi-Sexuals" don't even understand their gift. It is a gift, though that has to be discovered from within. Please read Shamanic Voices by Joan Halifax, PhD ISBN 0 14 019.348 0

Personally, I am always skeptical of things that are claimed to be 'Native American perspectives,' especially when they are touted by people who aren't Native Americans who claim that 'Native Amerian perspectives' agree with whatever New Age idea happens to be in fashion at the moment.

[vittoria]

Personally, I am always skeptical of things that are claimed to be 'Native American perspectives,' especially when they are touted by people who aren't Native Americans who claim that 'Native Amerian perspectives' agree with whatever New Age idea happens to be in fashion at the moment.

Verily.

[MarieDelta]

Transgender identity has been with us since before we knew of such things.

It exists in all cultures, revered or shunned, and it is part of human nature.

To say that someone is better because they have a transgendered identity isevery bit as errant as saying someone is worse for having a differently gendered identity.

On the other hand, how much have instituitions to gain by categorising human into two seperate and neat piles?

The church and the state have used our genders against us for too long. Ever stop to think why you need to put your gender down on almost every government form? Why do you need to include gender on you drivers license?
Why is it that the state & church both oppose the idea of breaking down the gender binary (something that does not exist in nature btw.) Things in nature arent as simple as male and female, homo and hetero. Gender is not a natural construct, it is a social construct based on a natural bias.

Most of nature exist somewhere in the middle between here and there.

[bimale47tn]

well im not sure even about my self as i love males and females and transgenders so like this story how would i say that im bisexual are am i some thing else im not sure in reality i like sex with anyone so what would i call myself

[Melissakah]

Aliexpress (https://alitems.com/g/1e8d1144947cf271b95a16525dc3e8/) - your star sales...

[void()]

... If “bi” literally was to mean “two,” how was I to identify with a sexuality that found me attracted to men and women, both trans and non—trans? Did my preferences including ‘man’ and ‘woman’ have me meet the criteria for bisexuality? Is that what I wanted? Who made this decision? Did bisexuality leave space for me to be attracted to people who identified as both or neither gender, genderqueer or two—spirited? Did, perhaps, the term ...

Here I find the answer, at least for myself continually rings objectively true. That answer is I am what I and whatever I hold as Providence choose to be. I define myself by and large and for me that definition came from a lot of what some call soul searching. I am the I am that remain in the silence inside that resonates the response I am to the question who am i? This is my personal experience only and for me it is highly personal, spiritual. To me it reflects the core of a belief that it is the Holy Grail a lot of other world beliefs strive to find. In that manifestation at least as far as I'm concerned, there is Gnosticism, a knowing instead of a thinking or speculating. Ergo, I can often see myself as Gnostic while still being a devout Agnostic Atheist.





Are you bisexual for being attracted to two genders?
When you say or hear “both genders” does that include trans men and women?
Can you be bisexual if you are attracted to two genders, but those genders do not fall gracefully into the categories of “men” and “women”?
Are you bisexual because you are attracted to two “types” of women?
Should gender be interchangeable with any other defining feature that makes someone bi? Is the emphasis here on the bi or the sexual?
Are you bisexual for liking and engaging in sex in two particular ways?
Where do genderqueer or genderfluid identities fit into our notions of bisexuality? (Defining “genderqueer” or “genderfluid” as a terms which suggest that aside from transgender identities that are rooted in ‘man’ and ‘woman’ that there are also people who’s gender identities transgress those boundries; who may identify as neither or both genders, or with a notion of an alternate or ‘third’ gender. These terms suggest also that there are individuals who are comfortable with, or who have an expectation of a gender identity that continues to shift and redefine itself.)
If bisexual people are to be at the forefront of the struggles against bi-phobia and homophobia, shouldn’t fighting transphobia and all gender-based oppression also be a part of the bisexual struggle?
Furthermore, broadening the scope of this non-quiz—does answering any of these questions imply that there are universal bisexual values?
Who creates those values, is it the bisexual-identified majority? Is there a bisexual majority?



Again, all of these questions devolve and boil down to a simple question of, "who am I?" For myself I see trans gendered people as well, people the same as the rest of us. Yes, they're facing their own unique set of struggles in life. Gee, are we all not facing our own struggles unique to ourselves?

Compassion and empathy tainted with a bit of dignity, respect go a long way to let me feel comfortable to "walk with kings, nobles as well as murders and commoners". That same comfort applies to trans-gendered people who i refer to as butterflies. If they are M-F I will treat them like the lady desire being, if F-M I treat them as the gentleman they desire being. You can understand their choice/s by observing, listening, caring. I could have said that you can discern their choice/s by being human, yet there's humans which fail in passing a lot traits of kindness up. I find this as an axiom of living, sadly but truly.

That's my food for thought, in other news I offer apologies for being so long away. Life seems to unwind at times for all of us. We need attend living no matter our sexual orientations, colors, ideas, religions. Love to all.

[void()]

well im not sure even about my self as i love males and females and transgenders so like this story how would i say that im bisexual are am i some thing else im not sure in reality i like sex with anyone so what would i call myself

Call yourself the simple term, ... me. :) It's okay and fine to be just you. Labels and boxes exist only for those seeking use of the us vs. them notion and what it might entail. I am merely myself and others can accept that and choose to like it, or not. It doesn't matter to me much either way their choice, I cannot control their actions, only my response to them. So, why be too bothered over them liking me or not? I'm not. *chuckles* Everything is for a reason I'm sure but at times cigars are just cigars.

As much as you need patience, compassion with others, so to do you need it for yourself. In that spirit let yourself define you as you and not be too concerned with what someone else defines you as being. Their definitions only hold power for you, if you choose letting them. Yes, here I advocate and practice going without a mask. :) It is highly liberating.

[void()]

Most of nature exist somewhere in the middle between here and there.

:love87: One of the many reasons you are so loved as a person by me. I say this in as platonic a spirit as I can, although yes I do think some of the baser urges could apply with some phenomenal aspects. ;) :)

Recently asked my wife if she could see me involved with someone trans-gender. She just laughed and said that was a silly question, she knew I could love and enjoy sex with anyone and it should be realized by anyone that comes to know me.

Well here a few more :love87::love87::love87::love87::love87:. If you get extras, please pass them on to someone you think might need them being sure to give them extra. :) Together as humanity we can hug our troubles away.