from bi to gay and back again?

[subobj]

So . . . just wondering how weird/unusual my case is, whether there are others who can relate . . .

I'm a guy, and my first sexual relationship was with a woman. While the relationship was hopelessly dysfunctional, the sex was great. But I was very aware that I was more attracted to men than women, and so I figured I was really gay. Once I admitted to myself that I'd never be able to live a purely heterosexual life, I came out as gay to friends, family, etc., and ended the relationship. That was about 10 years ago. Since then, I've been active with only men and have been comfortable considering myself gay.

Over the past few years, though, I've noticed that I've started to become attracted to some women. I'm still attracted to guys, but there are certain women -- especially if they look/act "boyish" -- who really get me hot and bothered. I've also found myself having powerfully erotic sexual fantasies about women, which is a relatively new thing for me. Lately, I even started to wonder if I could be happy with a woman as a primary partner -- and, at that moment at least, it struck me as a realistic possibility.

Because of these shifts, I've started to consider myself bi or at least bicurious . . . but I feel kind of alone because it seems to me (from reading posts in places like this forum, personals ads, etc) that the majority of bi or bicurious men fall on the 1-4 range of the Kinsey scale -- they're more attracted to women than men, but nevertheless more than incidentally attracted to men. I seem to be the mirror image of this -- mostly attracted to men, but more than incidentally attracted to women.

Because I don't see a lot of people out there who fall on my side of the Kinsey scale, I find that I'm second-guessing my feelings. E.g., perhaps my attraction to women is really just internalized homophobia. Or fooling myself due to social pressure. Or something like that.

So, am I a total freak? Or are there others out there who can relate?

[mn freak]

:flag3: No,you are not a freak. I have always been drawn to "tomboys" or "butch" types. I always though it was from growing up in the 80's when it was ok for women to have short hair. But I feel the same way, really butch, almost male, looking women really get the blood flowing in me. So, no, you are not a freak.

:2cents: :)

[Judas Imok]

Hey there!
I can completely relate. My first relationship ever was with a woman, and I have had MANY relationships with women. Then I discovered I REALLY liked men, had a few relationships with them as well. Then I got with a woman, got married and had a son. Recently though, my mind has gone back to being with a man. I am now of the mindset where I only want a relationship with a man. I don't even consider women an option. So I went through a similar dillema and even started a post with a similar problem. I thought, am I really just gay? Well... no. I am bisexual through and through. On the Kinsey scale, I am a 5, mostly gay, incidentally straight. I mean when I see a sexy woman, oh yes... my head will turn. However, I only want a man for a relationship. They just make me happy.

Even if I never have another relationship with a woman and someday "marry" a man, I still find women attractive and will always be bi.

:bipride:

*hugs and kisses*

[Snafu]

Hi. I am starting to think of the sway in my sexual orientation as kind of like being on a boat on the ocean. I would agree that I am about a 4-5 on the Kinsey scale. And I think we don't hear a lot from 4-5 people because they may be hidden in the gay community. When I was a teenager I mostly had heterosexual experinces with a few lesbian ones. Then when I was 19 I came out as a lesbian...but I didn't stop having sex with guys sometimes. Then I decided to come out as bisexual. And the funny thing was that some of my old lesbian friends would call me on Sunday mornings in hushed tones and tell me about some guy they accidentally slept with the night before...and they would ask me not to tell anyone.

The point is those lesbians as far as I was concerned would have technically been bisexual but because the lesbian community isn't always a comfortable place to call yourself bisexual, especially when you don't have any intention of having a relationship with the opposite sex person..it was easier for them to be closeted about that aspect of themselves. After that I totally went back iin the closet...denyed my queerness completetly...put it away. I got married to men twice...and am currently in a 10 year marriage.

About 5 years ago I fell in love with a woman..she was straight..nothing ever happend, but it was enough to wake up all my old gay issues. And again I started to feel gay. No interest in guys. But when I was persuaded to go to the International Conference on Bisexuality I rememebered that I really do like men...especially faggy gay identified bisexual men. Still I tend to go back and forth day to day a little bit between thinking of myself as a lesbian or bisexual. Not completely sure if my marriage is going to be able to withstand my queerness. I think if I were to be out of my marriage that i would mostly want to date women...but I would be open to the possibility of a bisexual, trans, or other queer identified man who was willing to have an open relationship. The biggest thing is that they need to understand me and my queerness and not think of it as a problem but an asset and be OK with me having queer friends, doing queer things, and thinking of and not hiding the fact that I am super not straight.

Oh, at the International Conference on Bisexuality, the most interesting workshop I went to was an Ex-Gay workshop. I found this facsinating. And there was one guy who said he is the gayest bisexual man he knows. A 5 on the Kinsey Scale. But he calls himself bysexual because there is this small part of him that really likes women sometimes and that he isn't willing to hide in any more closets for anyone. We started a group on a website from that workshop..it might have been on live journal and I joined it but I can't find it now. It was called the Kinsey Surfers...wherever it was. Maybe someone knows..I would like to find it again.

[parkwings]

Hi Subobj,

Well, I don't think you are that strange, because I have had a similar experience in life.
When I was a teen, and even now, my best fantasies have been about men.(I am a male)
However, I always found myself looking at women in a sexual manner(looking at thier bums etc.) So, as a young man I had sex with some girls and it was enjoyable. But like you, I felt I must be gay(due to my fantasies) so I came out to family, friends etc. I then basically lived with a man for 8 years, and it was mostly quite good.
Then after him and I split, I was drinking alcohol one night and ended up in bed with a woman that I knew through mutual acquantances. We have been going out now for about 3 years, and we don't cheat on each other.
I think the key here is honesty, I could'nt handle going out with her unless she knew my bi-tendencies, if I had to pretend I was totally straight, it would not work.
I think there are MANY people out there like you and I that have dual tendencies, but bury it in their minds, because it makes them uncomfortable.

My policy now is to be truthful to myself and my partner, and the rest will fall into place! :)

[DiamondDog]

Hmm I can relate.

I've never been married to a woman or had kids, had a girlfriend or even really a relationship with a woman. But I enjoyed the one woman I did have sex with, even if we didn't go "all the way" (fucking) in heterosexual terms. Even then while I enjoyed giving a woman dominant oral sex, masturbating her, and using a rider's crop on her, I knew that I'd ultimately want sex and relationships with men.

I've had a lot more sex/relationships with men and dated more men.

Sometimes, to me a woman's body can be kind of "alien" or like I don't know it as well as a man's body and I'll sometimes get totally turned off and grossed out by the idea of vaginal intercourse, oral sex with a woman, or seeing women naked.

During this time I'm not sexually attracted to women at all and I don't want anything to do with a woman.

I suppose I am probably more on the "homosexual" side since my attractions to men don't really go away and for the reasons I touched on in the above paragraph. I also relate VERY well to gay and bi men, even better than heterosexual men. As far as women go I relate a lot better to and I'm drawn more towards bi/queer women than heterosexual women.

I do know that if I were to ever get deeply involved with a woman that I'd want an open relationship so I could have male partners as well, as the idea of just having sex with one person/one gender for the rest of my life is one that would be like chopping off my right arm. I especially think this about being partnered to a woman and only having sex with her and only her for the rest of my life. I wouldn't cheat on anyone I was involved in a closed/exclusive relationship with but I wouldn't be happy either. I do know if I were to be partnered to a man I probably wouldn't want an open relationship; but if I were with a woman I'd need one.

I identify as bisexual since I'm at least sexually attracted to both men and women and I've fallen in love with both too. I certainly wouldn't be heterosexual since I am not soley attracted to women only and I'm probably not homosexual since I'm not that into men at all times, and when I was younger I was, or I thought I was REALLY into women to the point where I thought I was hetero; but I'm not that way now that I'm older, and looking back I can remember when I would get crushes on men and women as young as elementary school. I still do get sexually aroused/attracted to women. I'll get crushes/infatuated/fall in love with them but that's out of left field, and I'd enjoy a MMF 3 way but I don't seek out relationships/sex with women.

I'm either equally attracted to both genders or I'm so into men that I wonder if I'm really homosexual or that I was always homosexual but just didn't know it. But I know I'm not homosexual based on my past and how I will go back to being equally attracted. I guess I'd technically be somewhere in between "bisexual" and "homosexual" but there's not a word/label for that so I just use queer or bisexual.

I can fall in love with both genders and I'm sexually attracted to both genders, but I think for the most part I lean a bit more towards men. Personally I NEED all the communication, feelings, romance, cuddling, and foreplay when I have sex with a man. I know lots of guys who don't need any/all of this when they have sex with men but I'm not that way. I don't need all/any of this with women and I know women don't like that I'm this way but that's too bad.

Sex with a woman leaves me cold and emotionally/sexually unsatisfied in certain ways. But sex with men is amazing and I can get REALLY infatuated with men even if we've never had sex/never will or the only sex acts we do are making out and mutual jerk off.

[Cid87]

Interesting reading these stories, they are becoming more and more common. I'm at the other side of the middle, more hetero and I would think those types are even rarer than being on the homo side. I could pass of as heterosexual and avoid any complications, (sometimes I wish I do) but I guess westerns society is getting more liberal by the decade...

[Fire Lotus]

Oh, at the International Conference on Bisexuality, the most interesting workshop I went to was an Ex-Gay workshop. I found this facsinating. And there was one guy who said he is the gayest bisexual man he knows. A 5 on the Kinsey Scale. But he calls himself bysexual because there is this small part of him that really likes women sometimes and that he isn't willing to hide in any more closets for anyone. We started a group on a website from that workshop..it might have been on live journal and I joined it but I can't find it now. It was called the Kinsey Surfers...wherever it was. Maybe someone knows..I would like to find it again.

Hi! I was at the 9ICB as well and went to the same workshop. The Kinsey Surfers group is on livejournal. I'm on it too. (But under a different name) It started out a nice community, but lately there hasn;t been a lot of activity on it. Maybe a new member will spark some re-interest in it. :)

[DiamondDog]

Oh, at the International Conference on Bisexuality, the most interesting workshop I went to was an Ex-Gay workshop. I found this facsinating. And there was one guy who said he is the gayest bisexual man he knows. A 5 on the Kinsey Scale. But he calls himself bysexual because there is this small part of him that really likes women sometimes and that he isn't willing to hide in any more closets for anyone. We started a group on a website from that workshop..it might have been on live journal and I joined it but I can't find it now. It was called the Kinsey Surfers...wherever it was. Maybe someone knows..I would like to find it again.

Was it really called an "ex-gay workshop"? That sounds really weird and could give people the wrong idea about the workshop....

[Fire Lotus]

Was it really called an "ex-gay workshop"? That sounds really weird and could give people the wrong idea about the workshop....

No, that wasn't the name. My CRS is having me unable to remember at the moment what the real title was. It was a workshop on people who first came out gay, to later come out bisexual. (Insread of what is heard most, straight people coming out as bisexual) It was actually quite interesting. A good number of people showed up for it. There was no negativity about it.

[bearisbare]

The actual title of the workshop in question was "It Really Was Just a Phase: lesbians & gay men coming out as bisexual". I'm Fire Lotus' hubby and also attended the international conference on bisexuality (as well as being an organizer) but I only heard afterwards about the workshop in question. From what I heard, the feedback was generally good.

[subobj]

Thanks, all, for sharing your stories -- I'm so glad to hear that I'm not the only one!

It occurs to me, reading these stories and thinking about my own experiences, that I've really underestimated the impact bi-phobia has had on my own sexual self-understanding. A nagging voice in my head keeps saying "you're just fooling yourself -- you couldn't really be attracted to women as well as men -- that's just some kind of internalized homophobia speaking . . . "

But could internalized homophobia get me hard when I have fantasies about women? Somehow, I doubt that . . .