Are we the most discriminated ever??

[DorianCT]

Ehi, guys...

I don't want to be too pessimistic but... there is something which is disturbing me and I'd like to discuss it with you!.. are we the most "unaccepted" sexual beings ever?

Looks like straight people think we are some kind of perverts who are bisexual only because we like sleeping with anyone?

And gay people, then? They believe that we are: either bastards they sleep with - who will leave them for someone of our opposite sex; or other gays who aren't brave enough to admit that we are actually gay..

The problem is: we are discriminated by both worlds.. And we are somehow unluckier than gays, cause at least they are considered to be existent! They may not be accepted, but at least they are recognised true! In fact, we are in the worst possible condition.. Lots of people do not even think we exist at all.. Denying someone exist, their declaration of identity, isn't the worst form of discrimination ever?

Having said that, here is the reason for why I considered this website of detrimental important: we need to build our own world, our own community.. I wish there could be more bi clubs and pubs.. But seems like people like thinking everything in black&white, but find rather difficult to perceive greys..

[ambi53mm]

I don’t know if we fall into the most “discriminated against ever” category unless you’re just referring to sexual orientations. Unfortunately history shows us that racial and ethnic discrimination can be worse than death. I’m grateful that it’s not to the point of death camps and lynching...yet... We do sleep with anyone (genderwise} …but not everyone tho some of us might give it a go LOL.
I know some will disagree but being nonexistent while at the same time being existent does have some benefits. If I could have any super-power it would be the ability to be invisible. I’ve tried to be nonexistent and these days it’s damn near impossible. Big Brother is not just a paranoid’s myth and he’s getting bigger everyday.
What other’s think doesn’t mean as much to me as it use to….an old line from a Rick Nelson song (dating myself big time)

“You can’t please everyone so, you got to please yourself”

I’m all for helping others pursue their dreams of a community…it starts here…and it’s growing day by day.

Ambi :)

[smokey]

No far from it...women in general have been far more discriminated throughout history, from ancient times to modern whereas bisexuality has generally been much more accepted...there is an ancient quip about Julius Cesar (infamously bisexual) as a husband to every wife and a wife to every man. Throughout the ancient world bisexuality was accepted ranging from Alexander to Hadrian. The term faggot (originally meaning a bundle of wood used as kindling) started being applied to gays when the habit of burning at the stake along with witches (the gays at the bottom of the pile of wood hense the kindling connection with the witch on top) in the late middle ages. Many cultures considered bisexuals as magical beings straddling both worlds and because of that a lot of shaman have been bisexual...

The list goes on...generally speaking strictly gays and women have been far more discriminated against than bisexuals.

[DiamondDog]

I used to think that and I worried that friends/family would reject me but that didn't happen and the rest can just go fuck off if they don't accept me.

I haven't had that problem but this one older guy I met on vacation told me I should pick a side and stick with it; but he was hitting on me and told me how I was hot and at least I got some free beer out of it. :)

[smokey]

Hey don't complain free beer makes up for a lot.

[DiamondDog]

Hey don't complain free beer makes up for a lot.
true.

[Doggie_Wood]

I personally have not had that much problem. If I go to a gay bar and meet somebody, I am usually asked if I am gay or bi (or just gay sometimes).Of course I respond with being bi. I guess that I must give off a straight-ish (if that's not a word - it is now - lol) persona. Besides, I like myself and if someone doesn't like me for what and who I am, tough shit, their loss.
:doggie:

[Lorcan]

Having said that, here is the reason for why I considered this website of detrimental important: we need to build our own world, our own community.. I wish there could be more bi clubs and pubs.. But seems like people like thinking everything in black&white, but find rather difficult to perceive greys..

Yes. And if no one else is doing it, WE have to. WE have to start those bi clubs and pubs. WE have to build our own community.

Good luck, though, getting people to show up. I think at times that WE are our own worst enemy.

[DiamondDog]

Yes. And if no one else is doing it, WE have to. WE have to start those bi clubs and pubs. WE have to build our own community.

Good luck, though, getting people to show up. I think at times that WE are our own worst enemy.
Very true.

I've seen tons of Craigslist ads in my area, from married bi men that hide it from people, who want to be discrete, and guys who are really bi but call themselves heterosexual even if they're an oral top and into mutual masturbation as sex. Or I have male friends that call themselves het and they'll ask for sex with me when they're lightly intoxicated on alcohol which I don't indulge in with people.

It goes to show you just how far some people will go to avoid being seen/identified as "bi".

[citystyleguy]

i can only hope that these are musings, though i would ask if you have been hit with someone else's prejudices, as your expressions seem very solem and dark; i also did not see any real question.

that said, as to prejudice and/or bigotry, it will rear its evil head for any and all reasons; as to we bisexuals, well none of those het's/gays referred to have, like all prejudice/bigotry, any grounds for accusations. for those topics, we could discuss ad infinitum, so remaining focused on your remarks, i would do as i always do, tell them to fuck off, ignore them, and if they press on, confront them on my terms, not their's.

the ignorant, stupid, prejudiced, bigoted, etc. etc., will be always with us, and must be confronted and/or dealt with, individually and co-operatively; never, ever give in, for that is when they shall ensure yours and our destruction!

:three: to our eventual success!

[Herbwoman39]

People are afraid of what they do not understand. When there is fear, anger is usually a bi-product (no pun intended :) In anger those who are afraid lash out either with emotional or physical violence. Thus, we either do not exist, are fence-sitters, greedy, can't make up our minds, etc.

It sucks. And not in the fun way either ;)

But as Lorcan said, we have to build our own community. We have to overcome our own individual issues about being Bi and out so that we can be examples not only to other frightened Bis who are still in secrecy but also to people we know. Once people we know recognize that we are, in truth, not so different from themselves then they will begin to use us as a positive example to others.

It's become almost passe' to say "Yeah, I have a gay friend." So what? I'm looking forward to the day when it's passe' to mention having a Bi friend, too.

So, to address your comment, no it's not that bad. We haven't been rounded up and put in concentration camps like the gays or treated like property as women were for centuries. We're just becoming more visible.

This is a good thing.

[Long Duck Dong]

if you want my personal opinion, we are not as discriminated against as people believe

for examples....
hitler turned against the gays and the jews, not the bisexual,

coloured people were sent to the back of the bus, not the bisexuals

the catholic church murdered over 1,000,000 people in the witch hunts ( check the body count for europe, germany, france and the usa ) again, it was not against the bisexuals

coloured people were sold into slavery in the 100,000's, not the bisexuals

gays are only just getting the right to civil unions in some countries, the bisexuals have always had the full rites of marriage

if close minded people refuse to accept us as we are, it doesn't make us discriminated against, it simply means we deal with biased bigots

so many people scream about bisexual rights and I promptly point out the difference between the * lack of rights * and the fact that the gay community doesn't see our as non gays and non heteros...... so there is no real * lack of rights * just a abundance of ignorance

to be discriminated against, requires that mainstream society is acting in a manner to oppose and deny the basic rights afforded to each person under the legal guidelines of the law

BISEXUALS are NOT discriminated against, they are just moaning that they don't have things their own way

[sammie19]

I don’t know if we fall into the most “discriminated against ever” category unless you’re just referring to sexual orientations. Unfortunately history shows us that racial and ethnic discrimination can be worse than death. I’m grateful that it’s not to the point of death camps and lynching...yet... We do sleep with anyone (genderwise} …but not everyone tho some of us might give it a go LOL.
I know some will disagree but being nonexistent while at the same time being existent does have some benefits. If I could have any super-power it would be the ability to be invisible. I’ve tried to be nonexistent and these days it’s damn near impossible. Big Brother is not just a paranoid’s myth and he’s getting bigger everyday.
What other’s think doesn’t mean as much to me as it use to….an old line from a Rick Nelson song (dating myself big time)

“You can’t please everyone so, you got to please yourself”

I’m all for helping others pursue their dreams of a community…it starts here…and it’s growing day by day.

Ambi :)

I hardly think that the way we are discriminated against compares to the discrimination others have suffered throughout history. Ambi mentions the death camps and ethnic and racial discrimination. We must never forget that hundreds of thousands of gay and bisexual people also died in these death camps. Many were experimented on horrifically and all with the blessing of the state. Any discrimination we have to put up with today is child's play when compared to that.

Chatting to friend at a party recently, she pointed out that we must always be on our guard against any return to the cleansing of human beings for sexual purity and any return to the oppression of the past.

What she meant by that was that in the 1920's and early 30's Berlin was the gay capital of the world, and a mecca for all kinds of sexual expression and freedom. From 1933 this all changed and within weeks the whole situation had changed by a swift reversal of fortunes and the beginnning of a systematic exterminination of sexual "depravity" of all kinds. Attitudes tend to go in cycles and her point is that it is often at a time when the greatest freedoms have been reached that the "forces of reaction" (her phrase not mine) kick back and begin to crush the spirit and liberties of the free.

She views with concern the rise of the religious right and the less liberal attitudes of the Bush administration in the US as possibly the beginnings of that reaction and the rise of radical islamic culture as a further threat to our freedoms. As western governments strive to crush islamic terror groups, they will enact, and have enacted legislation which restricts the freedoms of and all and instill fear and paranoia into the general population, who will retrench into old fashioned and less liberal attitudes which by definition means that our freedoms as bisexual people will be removed.

She is a person who is a very politically active one, some would say a bit of a nut, and so she has a certain amount of paranoia about the conspiracy of the right and the power of the state in any case, but in this instance I do believe she may have a point. Our rights such as they are are not necessarily here forever and things change.

As people, not just a bisexuals, we have to keep a wary eye on the wider world and be prepared to defend ourselves should that reaction ever arise.

[darkeyes]

Nut?? Paranoid??? Twice me owes ya now wee Craigie!!

Duz wish ya would get it rite babes... the words wer Bushie an his assorted fascist warmongers an religious screwballs, hun! Administration infers sum sorta logic an competence.. aint seen much from tha quarter!! :tong:

[DorianCT]

All right, I believe I haven't explained me properly.. I was NOT putting us in comparison with Jewish, black people and other discriminated categories throughout history.

I meant TODAY, not the past. I was talking about the "sexual orientation" TRIO: straight, bi and gay... Well, three categories I do not even believe in. As I stated more than once, I don't like categorisations..

Well then, I am not sure what's up in the USA but in Italy (thanks to the catholotic curch too) bisexuality isn't really well known.. Straight people don't like it, gay people don't appreciate it.. And, if I cannot fully be myself in straight places (as they won't understand the gayish part of my sexuality), nor can I do that in gay places (where gays people go on telling me that I have to be gay). This is to me twice as frustrating, as I don't discriminate against everyone... And I always thought that gay people have a complex: they see "gay" even where there's not...

[12voltman59]

The thing with bisexuality and in terms of having nightclubs, bars, etc for us--is kind of hard--for just like in society-we are a cross section that cuts across the board in terms of age, socio-economic status, regional, differing tastes in music --what have you--

I don't think you could really start out to have a bar for bisexuals like you can for gays and lesbians---if you had a bar in a community---you could advertise it on here--Drew would like that--and obviously talk about it in chat and such but that would only be one little bar in one geographic place--and it would probably have to be in a larger metro region---

If started something more than a bar--a place where people could engage in sexual activity in terms of a private facility--it would not be easy either--but at least it would be more open than a traditional "swingers" club which usually means--its fine for a guy to get with two ladies but not for two ladies to get with a guy and mmm three ways--no friggin way----

So at least you could open it up to "many ways" with any combination of genders--basically allowing orgies, but with so many places doing all they can to get rid of any sexually oriented businesses--good luck trying to do such a place---and in terms of finances--it would take an individual with deep pockets and tons of cash to burn or a group of like minded investors with a well of cash---

I think the best model is: open a nice little bar and just make it known that you are welcoming to bisexuals--provide a place to have a bite to eat, a few drinks and a place for some comraderie and hook up if so desired---

[robinuk]

This thread has got me thinking (not an easy thing to do!)

Do you think bisexual people are more discriminated against than transgender people? I'm both, and I'm not sure!

[katacharin]

i totally know hwat you mean tho mate....which world will accept me...its confusing and can be uspetting. i try to be as undersdtanding as i can be to everyone, but from people i'd hope to understand i get nothing. just judgement or suggestions that i dont feel what i actually do! ahhhh! good one

[izzfan]

Hmmm.... Difficult one, I have only ever had biphobic comments made about me by gay people and that has only really happened about 3 times and it has been kind of light-hearted rather than genuinely hateful, sort of 'oh, you're not one of those bisexuals are you?' type thing... but ppl have generally been quite friendly to me. As for straight people, one of my friends back home called me a "poof" when I told him that I now tend to wear nail varnish... but I am still in the closet to him so I wasn't going to come out in order to defend myself against a relatively mild comment meant in jest rather than in hate. But no, I think that in some ways gay people do suffer more discrimination as you still get people childishly saying 'that's gay' to describe something they don't like.... you don't really hear them say 'That's bi' in the same context. Nevertheless, biphobia is still a problem as it is less well known than homophobia.... there have been numerous anti-homophobia campaigns (which are a very good thing) but if you say that something is 'biphobic' I'm sure that quite a few people will just think that you have made the word up.

I think the main solution to the problem is to create a lot more awareness of bisexuality and bisexual issues. I would be cautious to suggest starting a bi 'culture' or 'identity' as bisexual people seem to be a very varied and diverse group and such a single identity could lead to more stereotypes. It would be quite cool for one day for someone to say "I'm Bi and proud :flag2: " and for it to have the same impact as someone saying "I'm gay and proud"... normally when you stand up to anyhting hompohobic and then the person asks you if you are gay and you reply that you are Bi it seems to diminish your argument a bit (the whole concept of binary gay/straight sexuality seems to be involved in this). Then there is the whole view that bisexuality is a 'cop out' from admitting to being gay (I mean I view myself as 75% gay and 25% straight... I prefer male partners but I still find women very attractive and I still have some vague interest in them) and in most situations this isn't the case. But the whole Bi community seems to be sort of invisible really.... there is the strong gay identity as everything even vaguely gay-friendly is emblazoned with the rainbow flag and straight identity is part of mainstream culture and hardly needs and flags or anything (although I found it quite funny that some far-right Americans started a 'straight pride' movement.... obviously to counteract the rampant heterophobia that is present in society...not). Nah, we need to get more awareness of the bi flag :flag3: so it is as widely recognised as the rainbow flag. As for transphobia, I think someone mentioned this earlier... there is probably more transphobia than biphobia but it is probably worse for any TG person who is brave enough to be out in public because unlike bisexuality or homosexuality which is usually un-noticeable to most people at first glimpse, being TG in any way would stand out pretty quickly [probably more the case with cross-dressers and some transexuals] and probably lead to ridicule/ strange looks etc.... so I think that TG people have it worse than Bi people (I think there is a TG pride flag...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_pride_flag but this seems even less well known than the bi flag).
As for the bar situation, it would be great to have a 'bi bar' where it doesn't matter whether I chat up men or women... but I don;t see this happening in the near future considering that the town I am currently living in is only just starting to get a single 'gay-friendly' bar. Maybe it will happen in the larger cities first.

As for the comment about the religious right in America, radical Islam and other repressive groups (eg: far right parties such as the BNP... or 'British Nazi Party' as I prefer to call them). It is a serious concern and we have to stand up to them... But I don't see how this is possible because there aren't enough groups to protect LGBT people if any kind of repressive regime came into power. Looking at the current radicalisation of world and religious politics (I am agnostic/atheist so I tend to take a very dim view of organised religion lol). I fear that if such a regime came to pass then even the people who are still in the closet would have a hard time escaping from persecution so we need strong LGBT groups to resist oppression regardless of wherever it comes from. But one thing that does amuse me about the American religious right is its sheer hipocrisy as the recent cases with Foley and Haggard show - Bisexuality, Homosexuality and Transgender are present in every civilisation, in every culture and every location.... it is an inevitable fact so what is the point of denying/repressing it.

I've gone on for a bit.. anyway, just my :2cents:

Izzfan

[LoveLion]

I dont think we are discriminated against as much as some races have been. When it comes to discrimination based on sexual orientation I think homosexuals have been descriminated against more, basically because it is easier. They have a much larger and more promonate community and because bisexuality is not as whilte and black as homosexuality/heterosexuality it is harder to descriminate against us. Most intolerant people focus more on homosexuals because they see them as the polar opposite to them and because of the growth in the Homosexual movment. The word gay for example has become slang for dis likable as someone mentioned earlier (thats one of my biggest pet peeves).

ONe thing I really cant stand is how alot of homosexuals desciminate against Bis.
A percent see us as people who just are strong enough to admit we are gay like they are. This really bothers me. You think when a group like homosexuals endure so much discrimination that they would be a more tolerant.

As Iv said before there is a severe lack of Bi community, especially outside the cities. I would LOVE a Bi bar, and a Bi pride parade and even a Bi meeting group outside of the cities. At the moment however I dont see any real growth of the bi community. Although I am very limited in knowlage in these areas as is.

[Avocado]

Seems like the whole bloody lot of them are on our backs. Straights, gays, the BNP, Muslims, religion in general.

[LoveLion]

Theres just to much intolerance in general. Everybody seems to discriminate on some level to every other group, mabey its our nature, maby its the way our society is built. Even on this site alot of us unintentionally or intentionaly (myself included) make judgments and assumptions about groups. Strait people for example, alot of us associate strait people with intolerance of us and ignorance (on small levels mid you). Theres so much discrimination flying around on so many different levels it is impossible to say who is the most or least discriminated against.

Just my thoughts