One of 2 in the eye Trumpie!!we

[darkeyes]

Well done USA for stopping Trump and his cronies sweep to power in the mid terms... Republicans may yet take both houses of congress but American women and their male allies have put Republicans on warning at National and state levels that they restrict women's rights over their bodies at their peril.

Abortion is a controversial subject, and one about which I have much internal conflict, but much of what is proposed to restrict women's reproductive rights in the US is simply evil and is about continuing and perpetuating oppression of women by men ...far more evil and cruel than terminating a child of a child or girl raped by parent or sibling or girl or woman by any1 else. I support women's right to choose as a liberating issue for women not as the murderous issue many of the right claim. The US Supreme Court has opened a can of worms and they, and their right inclined sponsors should have expected no less than that women of the USA would rise up against them about this issue at least.

[emerging]

It is looking good for the democrats. It has been difficult living in America in recent years. I think the 2 things driving the republicans is their hatred of democrats (and immigrants) and insane religious beliefs. Since I have dual citizenship I have seriously weighed leaving the US. It is depressing to see the hatred that hangs in the air here, especially in my own family. The Sumpreme Court is run by Catholics!!!! 6 of them, 5 on the conservative side. I was once Catholic but left many years ago and now they run an important part of my country.

Go BLUE!!

[chtampa]

Eight years of Obamacare and a failure to take advantage of any sort of therapy. Now the only possible option is research.

[darkeyes]

It is looking good for the democrats. It has been difficult living in America in recent years. I think the 2 things driving the republicans is their hatred of democrats (and immigrants) and insane religious beliefs. Since I have dual citizenship I have seriously weighed leaving the US. It is depressing to see the hatred that hangs in the air here, especially in my own family. The Sumpreme Court is run by Catholics!!!! 6 of them, 5 on the conservative side. I was once Catholic but left many years ago and now they run an important part of my country.

Go BLUE!!,

I know several Catholics who have terminated their pregnancy.. My mother's parents raised her as a Catholic, something she lost a long time ago. Half of my family are Roman Catholic, so though I despise Catholism any dislike of people for being Catholic is non existent. I live in a nation which has a massive Catholic/ Protestant issue.. I thank kismet that my parents raised me in no religion, but to think for myself..hence I am, like them athiest. I have seen the divisiveness of sectarianism... It is nasty and makes life often unbearable.

.. And b4 ne1 tells me how America votes is nowt to do with me, as a human being it bloody well is.. Just as I loathe the oppression of women or ne 1 in Afghanistan, Syria, Africa, South America, the next street or ne where else, I will express my support in opposition to it and do what I can to change things... Just as anti abortionists have the right to protest fairly and legally against anything and everything I might believe in.

[Fiddlestyx]

It is looking good for the democrats. It has been difficult living in America in recent years. I think the 2 things driving the republicans is their hatred of democrats (and immigrants) and insane religious beliefs. Since I have dual citizenship I have seriously weighed leaving the US. It is depressing to see the hatred that hangs in the air here, especially in my own family. The Sumpreme Court is run by Catholics!!!! 6 of them, 5 on the conservative side. I was once Catholic but left many years ago and now they run an important part of my country.

Go BLUE!!
The thing about having so many Catholics on the Supreme Court is that I am old enough to remember when Kennedy was elected and many found it shocking that the US could possibly elect a Catholic. The "unholy" union of right-wing Protestants and Catholics over sexual issues is one that would have been unthinkable not so many decades ago.

[Fiddlestyx]

,

I know several Catholics who have terminated their pregnancy.. My mother's parents raised her as a Catholic, something she lost a long time ago. Half of my family are Roman Catholic, so though I despise Catholism any dislike of people for being Catholic is non existent. I live in a nation which has a massive Catholic/ Protestant issue.. I thank kismet that my parents raised me in no religion, but to think for myself..hence I am, like them athiest. I have seen the divisiveness of sectarianism... It is nasty and makes life often unbearable.

.. And b4 ne1 tells me how America votes is nowt to do with me, as a human being it bloody well is.. Just as I loathe the oppression of women or ne 1 in Afghanistan, Syria, Africa, South America, the next street or ne where else, I will express my support in opposition to it and do what I can to change things... Just as anti abortionists have the right to protest fairly and legally against anything and everything I might believe in.
My Scottish ex-wife was raised Catholic, but had two terminations in the years between her first marriage and my meeting her - both the result of rape (compounded by alcohol), I might add. I know the Catholic/Protestant issue you deal with from first hand experience.

[marine20]

i really wish we would continue this forum as a bisexual one , not a political one.

[Fiddlestyx]

,

I know several Catholics who have terminated their pregnancy.. My mother's parents raised her as a Catholic, something she lost a long time ago. Half of my family are Roman Catholic, so though I despise Catholism any dislike of people for being Catholic is non existent. I live in a nation which has a massive Catholic/ Protestant issue.. I thank kismet that my parents raised me in no religion, but to think for myself..hence I am, like them athiest. I have seen the divisiveness of sectarianism... It is nasty and makes life often unbearable.

.. And b4 ne1 tells me how America votes is nowt to do with me, as a human being it bloody well is.. Just as I loathe the oppression of women or ne 1 in Afghanistan, Syria, Africa, South America, the next street or ne where else, I will express my support in opposition to it and do what I can to change things... Just as anti abortionists have the right to protest fairly and legally against anything and everything I might believe in.
My Scottish ex-wife was raised half Catholic, half Protestant but had two terminations in the years between her first marriage and my meeting her - both the result of rape (compounded by alcohol), I might add. I know the Catholic/Protestant issue you deal with from first hand experience.

[darkeyes]

i really wish we would continue this forum as a bisexual one , not a political one. Bisexual women don't get raped or have abortions? Don't have political opinions? Abortion is a bisexual issue.. Bisexual women have and will again become pregnant and will need abortions!!! When the Supreme Court decides that bi peeps can't marry a same sex lover as Clarence Thomas seems to want, you tell me politics isn't an issue for a bisexual forum!!!

[chtampa]

The Supreme Court DID NOT eliminate abortions. They removed Federal control and sent it to State level. Study American government before you comment on it. We have fifty States, each with their own laws, so citizens can live in whichever State fits their own beliefs. Some states allow abortions, so if you want to have abortions you move to a state that allows them. Better yet, you can live anywhere and drive to that state and get it. Stop believing everything you are told and do some research. I would NEVER presume to give an opinion about Great Britain's method of government without doing the same. Be respectful. I imagine you would expect the same over your choice of sexuality.

As for beating up on Trump, I know of nothing that he did to the alphabet crowd. If I am wrong, please enlighten me.

[csreef]

It has always amazed me that people who don't live in the US are so obsessed with American Politics.

[darkeyes]

It has always amazed me that people who don't live in the US are so obsessed with American Politics. I'm not sure about being obsessed, but if so perhaps it has much to do with the American obsession with interfering with the politics and morality of everyone else instanced by regular American "Christian" appearances outside British abortion clinics and freaking out and intimidating girls and women going through a truly traumatic time..

I have never said the Supreme Court eliminated abortions, Chatmpa, but make no mistake that's the eventual intention of the present majority.. I think about 11 states have abolished it with others restricting it greatly. I will say more tomorrow when I have time. Right now my evening is for fun. I didn't want anyone thinking I'd forgotten you all!! ��

[Jazminedress]

The problem is, the people in Europe who think they have a clue what is really going on in the United States are getting all their information from a liberal news outlets that support democrats, and they truly have no real clue what is going on. So they have Trump as a boogeyman. Personally, I think the USA should tell every other country to piss off, get their own house in order, we keep our money you keep yours and we quit enabling and supporting most of the world.

Honestly, just like the "Dont say gay bill", as soon as someone calls it that, I know they have not read, or they are being purposely obtuse and not using reading comprehension

[beamish13]

The problem is, the people in Europe who think they have a clue what is really going on in the United States are getting all their information from a liberal news outlets that support democrats, and they truly have no real clue what is going on. So they have Trump as a boogeyman. Personally, I think the USA should tell every other country to piss off, get their own house in order, we keep our money you keep yours and we quit enabling and supporting most of the world.

Honestly, just like the "Dont say gay bill", as soon as someone calls it that, I know they have not read, or they are being purposely obtuse and not using reading comprehension


your hubris is fucking outrageous. Amerikkka is the nation that has invaded or supported terror regimes in scores of countries (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Grenada, Iraq, Chile, Haiti, etc.) or tampered with elections (Australia). I honestly doubt you even know the depths of your country?s lack of a fucking moral spine.

enjoy your lack of guaranteed healthcare, by the way. You’re a total joke of a country, and the rest of the world is happy you’re crumbling

[Hubie]

your hubris is fucking outrageous. Amerikkka is the nation that has invaded or supported terror regimes in scores of countries (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Grenada, Iraq, Chile, Haiti, etc.) or tampered with elections (Australia). I honestly doubt you even know the depths of your country?s lack of a fucking moral spine.

enjoy your lack of guaranteed healthcare, by the way. You’re a total joke of a country, and the rest of the world is happy you’re crumbling


You forgot about obama meddling in the Israeli elections...
True, the USA isn't perfect. Still, seems many aspire to come here to live. There is a reason for that. We're in a communist country at present - I wouldn't upload a explicit photo to the web from here - a good chance I'd end up in jail. Heck, have to use a VPN just to access web sites...
Guaranteed healthcare? You have it in the US. It's just that you will have to pay for it, unless you have obamacare, then others taxes pay for it, just like in the countries you refer. Ask those in Australia, Canada, and England why they have private health insurance. Go to Vietnam, and see what the govt healthcare does for you. We live there part time, so know.
Appears you're in CA? Why? Why not leave if you are so unhappy with the USA?

[Long Duck Dong]

I have the viewpoint that with a lot of politics, most people have two choices with political parties and often just vote for their preferred party which rubbishing the hell out of the other party and supporters......and god help any LGBT+ repub, thats just painting a bullseye on their back even if they do not agree with the outspoken and opinionated elected repub officials........a bit like being a LGBT+ conservative in the UK....

What really matters to me in the political sense, is the impact on world markets and exchange rates as they often directly impact on me, more than what trump has said or done.....a shift either way can affect the cost of importing and the profits with exporting, and as i enjoy investing money, changes and shifts can gain or cost me a lot of money....

As for things like the make up of the supreme court in the US, well whats the big deal, the court has always been made up of justices that often leaned certain ways and seems to me that people were ok with the SCOTUS when it favored them but bitch like crazy when it goes the other way.......and to be honest, the SCOTUS simply handed the abortion rights issue back to the individual states to decide, which, for me, was a neutral move rather than one that upheld or removed the right to abortion.......

Sure * my body, my rights * is something that people are quick to chant but often in truth its * my body, my rights but others responsibility * and to be honest, how many females use abortion as a form of birth control... and yes I know that the most common rebuttal is the cost of birth control and access to birth control, however thats not what I asked... thats just people sidestepping the question.....or they do the * victims of sexual crimes etc etc etc * which again is not what I asked....

The reality is most of the females I know that have had abortions, did it because A) they were not ready to have a child B) it was a unplanned pregnancy and C) they did not use any type of birth control but how dare anybody tell them that they should have been more careful.... and yes I know of all the excuses like birth control messes with some people, and condoms break, more excuses and side stepping......and I say that because its focusing on a small number of females and pregnancy, rather than the overall picture.......

At the end of the day, one thing is for sure with abortion... and that is depending on when it is defined as a human life...some say conception, some say when there is a heart beat, some say at birth, the fact remains that its a human life being ended... and thats really what the fight is about, the right to end that chance of existence and say * my body, my rights *

[chtampa]

The interesting thing about abortions is that men are making the decisions.

Because of back door deals our government is the "Karen" of the world.

American Healthcare is an oxymoron.

The simpler elections are made, the more corrupt they are. Soon they will made automatically according to your past voting history.

American citizens have become a victim of the overreach of our own federal government.

A word to the wise, the news is no longer reported, it is written. Staff is given a "Byline" and the story is created to fit it. It is done this way in your country also. Why? It sells ADVERTISING.

[Jazminedress]

your hubris is fucking outrageous. Amerikkka is the nation that has invaded or supported terror regimes in scores of countries (Vietnam, Afghanistan, Grenada, Iraq, Chile, Haiti, etc.) or tampered with elections (Australia). I honestly doubt you even know the depths of your country?s lack of a fucking moral spine.

enjoy your lack of guaranteed healthcare, by the way. You’re a total joke of a country, and the rest of the world is happy you’re crumbling

Way to try to use big words, what amazes me, is your complete lack of education and the world around you...................Funny thin how you actually list yourself as living in the USA but put "You're a total joke of a country", so I assume either you made a fake profile or you left.

Yet, without this countries money, so many would not be able to function, without this countries military, so many would be living under dictatorships.

You see, you keep running your mouth, and seem to have a special boner for me, yet you do not make one educated statement that even stays on topic. So skippy, go back and tell your mommy how tough you are on the internet and let the educated people speak

[tongueteaser]

i really wish we would continue this forum as a bisexual one , not a political one.


For sure. I also am tired of Politics thrown in on many sites anymore.

[tongueteaser]

Way to try to use big words, what amazes me, is your complete lack of education and the world around you...................Funny thin how you actually list yourself as living in the USA but put "You're a total joke of a country", so I assume either you made a fake profile or you left.

Yet, without this countries money, so many would not be able to function, without this countries military, so many would be living under dictatorships.

You see, you keep running your mouth, and seem to have a special boner for me, yet you do not make one educated statement that even stays on topic. So skippy, go back and tell your mommy how tough you are on the internet and let the educated people speak

Thank You Jazmine!

[beamish13]

Way to try to use big words, what amazes me, is your complete lack of education and the world around you...................Funny thin how you actually list yourself as living in the USA but put "You're a total joke of a country", so I assume either you made a fake profile or you left.

Yet, without this countries money, so many would not be able to function, without this countries military, so many would be living under dictatorships.

You see, you keep running your mouth, and seem to have a special boner for me, yet you do not make one educated statement that even stays on topic. So skippy, go back and tell your mommy how tough you are on the internet and let the educated people speak


fuck off, you reactionary asshole

[park ave]

The problem is, the people in Europe who think they have a clue what is really going on in the United States are getting all their information from a liberal news outlets that support democrats, and they truly have no real clue what is going on. So they have Trump as a boogeyman. Personally, I think the USA should tell every other country to piss off, get their own house in order, we keep our money you keep yours and we quit enabling and supporting most of the world.

Honestly, just like the "Dont say gay bill", as soon as someone calls it that, I know they have not read, or they are being purposely obtuse and not using reading comprehension

Hear, hear!
You go, Jaz

[csreef]

Way to try to use big words, what amazes me, is your complete lack of education and the world around you...................Funny thin how you actually list yourself as living in the USA but put "You're a total joke of a country", so I assume either you made a fake profile or you left.

Yet, without this countries money, so many would not be able to function, without this countries military, so many would be living under dictatorships.

You see, you keep running your mouth, and seem to have a special boner for me, yet you do not make one educated statement that even stays on topic. So skippy, go back and tell your mommy how tough you are on the internet and let the educated people speak

Amen to that Jazmine!

[Jazminedress]

fuck off, you reactionary asshole


Awwwwwww, did we quit using big words, did the mean person on the internet not go along with your echo chamber where everyone agrees with you and your little feelings got hurt ?

Seriously, thats the best you can do ? Pathetic truthfully, very pathetic.

[Jazminedress]

Wow, reactionary asshole ?

I am insulted, at least call me a bitchy stuck up cunt or something like that, put a little thought into the insult

[csreef]

fuck off, you reactionary asshole

When you go that low, you just lost your argument. Oh well, so sad, too bad. :-<

[darkeyes]

When you go that low, you just lost your argument. Oh well, so sad, too bad. :-<
Not necessarily, Reef.. Some peeps aren't much cop at developing argument.. Their emotions are their way of displaying how they feel and their language is expressed.. God knows I occasionally allow my emotions to get the better of me as I refer to folk as "arseholes". That doesn't mean I am unable to develop argument, it does mean that sometimes some peeps act and speak as arseholes. It's a long time since I used your argument against those who take issue with a side of an argument.. It is lazy debate with a touch of intellectual snobbery and neither wins or loses a point. ☺

[macbi60]

Well done USA for stopping Trump and his cronies sweep to power in the mid terms... Republicans may yet take both houses of congress but American women and their male allies have put Republicans on warning at National and state levels that they restrict women's rights over their bodies at their peril.

Abortion is a controversial subject, and one about which I have much internal conflict, but much of what is proposed to restrict women's reproductive rights in the US is simply evil and is about continuing and perpetuating oppression of women by men ...far more evil and cruel than terminating a child of a child or girl raped by parent or sibling or girl or woman by any1 else. I support women's right to choose as a liberating issue for women not as the murderous issue many of the right claim. The US Supreme Court has opened a can of worms and they, and their right inclined sponsors should have expected no less than that women of the USA would rise up against them about this issue at least.

Sorry Darkeyes, your post was not appreciated by me... and maybe more. I used to be pro-choice, but I got schooled by a woman. My problem becomes what about the child? Example, woman gets raped, which is horrible. Solution kill the child as it's the child's fault. And it doesn't matter if this child is carried to full term. When it pokes its head out kill it. What's wrong with adoption? There are many, many people that would love to adopt the child. It's definitely sold to women that are in the tough situation of being pregnant at the "wrong time". There is this contingency of abortion activists that will be trying to sell the death of an innocent baby to it's mother. When I see these activists burning down pro-life centers it just kills me. The woman that changed me had a child out of wed-lock and gave the child up for adoption. That child is an abortion activist that cannot comprehend the value of her own life. I now carry the love in my heart to say every conceived child should be given the chance. Mostly because if you/we were capable of asking the fetus, "do you want a shot at life?" But I'll bet the vast majority would want a shot. Remember the baby wasn't capable of advising the woman about birth control, which there is a ton of options available pre-sex.

Lastly please don't assume that everybody on this site hates conservatives or even Trump for that matter. You maybe surprised at the number. And find that they are still nice people that want to live and let live. And keep in mind that 75% of the people in this country believe it is being taken down the wrong path.

[macbi60]

The Supreme Court DID NOT eliminate abortions. They removed Federal control and sent it to State level. Study American government before you comment on it. We have fifty States, each with their own laws, so citizens can live in whichever State fits their own beliefs. Some states allow abortions, so if you want to have abortions you move to a state that allows them. Better yet, you can live anywhere and drive to that state and get it. Stop believing everything you are told and do some research. I would NEVER presume to give an opinion about Great Britain's method of government without doing the same. Be respectful. I imagine you would expect the same over your choice of sexuality.

As for beating up on Trump, I know of nothing that he did to the alphabet crowd. If I am wrong, please enlighten me.

Well stated and absolutely correct chtampa! And on both counts! Trump was a boy scout as we all found out $50 million, 3.5 years and Mueller's microscope up Trump's ass and nothing... nothing. He's without a doubt full of himself, but he's not the criminal they are trying to make him to be.

[Jazminedress]

Sorry Darkeyes, . My problem becomes what about the child? Example, woman gets raped, which is horrible. Solution kill the child as it's the child's fault. And it doesn't matter if this child is carried to full term.

Where I would respectfully disagree, and for the record, I am 100% pro life, I make no apology for it, and never will.

When it comes to rape, I find it to be one of the most horrific crimes against a person, and in a case like that, I think the Mother and her spouse have a very tough and heartbreaking choice to make, and I think everyone should stay out of it. The choice of can they look at this baby and NOT see the monster that helped create it, but see the good part of the mother.

I also believe when it comes to the health of the baby, as in it is not viable, then yes, of course allow it, if it is a choice between the mothers life and the baby, again, another horrific decision that is between the family no one else.

That said, the rape and incest and health argument is always where they place their hats. Here is the issue, the USA has approximately 860,000 abortions a year. Less than 1.2% (if memory serves, but it is close) have anything to do with incest and rape.

Less than 17% have anything to do with health of the baby or the mother. This means that (rounding numbers) 705,000 are simply, I don't want it............thats where I have my issue. I pay a ton of taxes for free birth control, it's given out in school, there is access to more information, you can get 12 condoms for a $1 at the 99 cent store, and yet, we still can't get out shit together. We told them in the 80's it would become a form of birth control and it has.

Right at 50% of yearly abortions, are people who have had one previously..........meaning, okay, one time you made a mistake, now again ?

We talk about all this standing up for minority's, guess where over half come from, and Sangers racial bias is pretty well known.

But here is the kicker..............

Abrotion activists " It's an embryo, not a baby, it's not alive until it is born"
Same activists " You assaulted the mother , she lost the baby, you should face trial for murder"

So in one minute, it's a baby, the other it isn't, not too mention if we have a car accident and a mother looses a baby, guess what, I am held liable for a life

[Lucky 61]

Well done USA for stopping Trump and his cronies sweep to power in the mid terms...

I don't recall seeing Trump on the ballot. Nobody took anything from you, I don't understand the anger and really don't get the contradiction of your actions with your signature.

"Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you."

[darkeyes]

Sorry Darkeyes, your post was not appreciated by me... and maybe more. I used to be pro-choice, but I got schooled by a woman. My problem becomes what about the child? Example, woman gets raped, which is horrible. Solution kill the child as it's the child's fault. And it doesn't matter if this child is carried to full term. When it pokes its head out kill it. What's wrong with adoption? There are many, many people that would love to adopt the child. It's definitely sold to women that are in the tough situation of being pregnant at the "wrong time". There is this contingency of abortion activists that will be trying to sell the death of an innocent baby to it's mother. When I see these activists burning down pro-life centers it just kills me. The woman that changed me had a child out of wed-lock and gave the child up for adoption. That child is an abortion activist that cannot comprehend the value of her own life. I now carry the love in my heart to say every conceived child should be given the chance. Mostly because if you/we were capable of asking the fetus, "do you want a shot at life?" But I'll bet the vast majority would want a shot. Remember the baby wasn't capable of advising the woman about birth control, which there is a ton of options available pre-sex.

Lastly please don't assume that everybody on this site hates conservatives or even Trump for that matter. You maybe surprised at the number. And find that they are still nice people that want to live and let live. And keep in mind that 75% of the people in this country believe it is being taken down the wrong path.

There is little wrong with the principle of adoption at all. I think it is a great thing.. But when you become female, I might accept some of your arguments more readily... I have given birth, and it wasn't pleasant, and it wasn't fun. If I ever became pregnant again I think memory of childbirth of a child I adore is likely to make me seek a termination. It may not, but I'd like the option. I opted to become pregnant.. Being broody drives a woman, even a woman who, like me, had decided to forsake having children all of her life, but it is very possible that this woman at least would fight to overcome that almost overbearing, powerful desire, that all encompassing obsession to have second child.

I don't insist on ne1 having a termination, neither would I deny a woman the right to terminate. It is her life she risks, her future she gambles upon, as it is the child she carries. There are many reasons women decide upon a termination. Of course rape, incest, child abuse often all 3 at the same time, physical or mental disability and/or infirmity, economics, fear of disapproval, fear of the very act of childbirth itself and if the raising of a child for a variety of reasons.

I am conflicted as I have said about abortion, yet I believe it to be a necessity in our societies for the reasons I have given and are readily understood and for a myriad of other reasons. That women decide upon terminations rather than having an unplanned and unwanted child into the world is sad, and is a tragedy but there is little worse than forcing a person to undergo something which that person fears just about most in this world and can be of can become in itself an appalling tragedy. Far better to provide in our schools proper decent sex education. Far too many parents abrogate their responsibility by withdrawing their children from sex education in the basis that it is their right and duty to teach their child about the issue.. and all too many such parents just dont, or bring their child up with the myths which have been responsible for so many tragedies throughout history. Some parents, far too many, impose upon their children a "hands on" practical approach.

I do not condemn those who are anti abortion for whatever reason. I don't accept the expression many use, "pro-life" when it is patently nothing of the kind. How many women and children must die because of society's insistence on carrying a child to term? How many must die going "back street"?

I don't know when life can be said to begin, though once I thought I did. I do know that use of abortion as a method of contraception is much overstated and is an incredibly inefficient method of birth control. It happens, but not nearly as much as some claim, except in this regard... The use of the "morning after" pill which many anti-abortionists I know deny is for and what it can do.. Many whom are no strangers to its use.

Overturning Roe v Wade did not end abortion but it has enabled some states to legislate against it and at times in the most draconian way. The US may yet come to regret the decision by SCOTUS. I applaud those states which retain abortion for their women and girls and dry for those and girls via whom it is no longer available.

[darkeyes]

I don't recall seeing Trump on the ballot. Nobody took anything from you, I don't understand the anger and really don't get the contradiction of your actions with your signature.

"Do not think so little of me as to grant me your tolerance. Allow me your acceptance and understanding of who and what I am with the love, respect and dignity with which I do you."
Trump and his politics are responsible for the fact that over a fifth of states no longer allow abortion. Doesn't it take from me? What is taken from one woman is taken from all. I beg to differ.

My signature is intended as a plea to the non lgbtq world to respect my sexuality as I respect theirs, not as a general acceptance of any old deal being heaped upon me. It isn't a contradiction whatever taken in that context.

[Long Duck Dong]

Where I would respectfully disagree, and for the record, I am 100% pro life, I make no apology for it, and never will.

When it comes to rape, I find it to be one of the most horrific crimes against a person, and in a case like that, I think the Mother and her spouse have a very tough and heartbreaking choice to make, and I think everyone should stay out of it. The choice of can they look at this baby and NOT see the monster that helped create it, but see the good part of the mother.

I also believe when it comes to the health of the baby, as in it is not viable, then yes, of course allow it, if it is a choice between the mothers life and the baby, again, another horrific decision that is between the family no one else.

That said, the rape and incest and health argument is always where they place their hats. Here is the issue, the USA has approximately 860,000 abortions a year. Less than 1.2% (if memory serves, but it is close) have anything to do with incest and rape.

Less than 17% have anything to do with health of the baby or the mother. This means that (rounding numbers) 705,000 are simply, I don't want it............thats where I have my issue. I pay a ton of taxes for free birth control, it's given out in school, there is access to more information, you can get 12 condoms for a $1 at the 99 cent store, and yet, we still can't get out shit together. We told them in the 80's it would become a form of birth control and it has.

Right at 50% of yearly abortions, are people who have had one previously..........meaning, okay, one time you made a mistake, now again ?

We talk about all this standing up for minority's, guess where over half come from, and Sangers racial bias is pretty well known.

But here is the kicker..............

Abrotion activists " It's an embryo, not a baby, it's not alive until it is born"
Same activists " You assaulted the mother , she lost the baby, you should face trial for murder"

So in one minute, it's a baby, the other it isn't, not too mention if we have a car accident and a mother looses a baby, guess what, I am held liable for a life

Can't say I am 100% pro life because too many variables come into play......and you do lay out multiple situations where those variable come into play for me.......

Now in NZ we had a dual issue, the single mothers and the abortion rate both started to peak around the 1990s at around 18k abortions, the pregnancy rate for 16 to 24 was increasing and the 20-24 range was the highest group for abortions.....

We still average around 13k abortions per year. ( 15-44 years old ) 16% of all known pregnancies per year, yet we have a high rate of access to birth control and conception in NZ... but we also have the * my body, my rights but not my responsibility * mentality......and its estimated that between 2015 and 2019 there was 86,400 pregnancies with 52% unintended and of them, 29% or 13k ended in abortion.......

now with a wide range of access to birth control / conception available, we are still seeing a lot of unintended pregnancies and that may be in part because of the * my body, my rights but not my responsibility * mentality regarding who is responsible for birth control and conception......IE a female should be allowed to have unprotected sex but if she gets an STI or pregnant, do not hold her responsible for her actions, and do not limit her choice or right to abortion......

However if we add in the * murder of a unborn child * thinking, it actually makes females the single highest group for * murder * in NZ.....and saying something like that is regarded as offensive and outrageous because of how much women suffer because of an abortion......my counter stance is think of how much they would not suffer if they used their brains and birth control ( I include males in that ) instead of excuses and my rights ......of course that ends up with me being accused of being misogynistic, a toxic male and apparently female * victim blaming *

I am a decorated vet who ended lives in a warzone, the same action of ending a life in NZ as a civilian would see me face charges for manslaughter / murder.......they are both the same actions, ending a human life yet people will argue different circumstances.... and I see the same thinking used with abortion, a conscious decision to terminate a human life with people arguing thats different circumstances, and me twisting things to fit an agenda.........actually to me its just another way to look at a situation, I am not going to walk around calling females that have abortions, murderers......

Ironically I was the result of a ripped condom myself, a unintended pregnancy.......and whats funny is the people that say I am lucky that my parents decided to keep me and not abort me....my reply is I seriously wish they had aborted me, I was born with a neurological condition and I spent decades dealing with counsellors and therapists, my first 16 years were in a broken and abusive home and my life has never been an easy one.......but its so easy for others who are not me, to tell me how lucky I am to have been born........

so yeah I am neutral on abortion, tho I do not agree with it as a form of birth control.....and to me, yes activists and radicals often have hypocritical stances and double standards or as I like to say, they like to have opinions without thinking while I prefer to think about the opinions I have, which is why I rarely have a single viewpoint on any issue, lol

[Jazminedress]

Trump and his politics are responsible for the fact that over a fifth of states no longer allow abortion. Doesn't it take from me? What is taken from one woman is taken from all. I beg to differ.

My signature is intended as a plea to the non lgbtq world to respect my sexuality as I respect theirs, not as a general acceptance of any old deal being heaped upon me. It isn't a contradiction whatever taken in that context.

I don't believe Trump was president when this was decided. Last I checked, he hasn't been President for over two years.
Your signature with your comment of "What takes from one woman takes from all "

Got a little issue with it.

When trans people wanted to use the bathroom of choice, any, and I mean any female that had an issue with it was screamed at for being transphobic, homophobic and everything else. It was only about the wants of these people.

Yet, zero consideration for the woman that had suffered sexual abuse or assault at the hands of a male, noting about the woman who suffered psychological abuse at the hands of a male...................just the simple fact that I, as a biological male, can decide tomorrow I identify as a female and you better damn well accept me in your locker room and dressing room and be okay with it, or you are a discriminatory bigot.

So, where was the tolerance for them, or is it simply whoever is the cause du jour that we have tolerance for ? Did the aspects of what effected those women not count ?

I am not sure where you get your information here, but the abortion fight has gone on as long as it has been legalized, there have been many attempts to actually over turn it, only difference, as stated, it was NOT over turned, it was sent back to the states for the will of the people of those states

[darkeyes]

I am ok with Transwomen or men using locker rooms, dressing rooms and loos generally assigned "Ladies". I understand why many women are not but in time it will become an accepted fact of life. Women are still coming to terms with this. Like many changes time is needed, and very probably redesign of such places.

Don't think I don't understand the concerns of women.. Most have been assaulted sexually, and/or physically and more than once in one way or t'other by men and I am no different. Yet we won't stop sexual and physical assault by men by discriminating against those former men who have reassigned gender. Societies haven't fully come to terms with gender reassignment, but they will in time. I don't simply tolerate difference, I accept it gladly and we all should.

I am perfectly aware that the fight against abortion has been going on a long time, just as the fight for it has. Here too. These are issues which democratic societies debate and decide about.. and will continue so to do. Some issues never go away... abortion is almost certainly one.

[Long Duck Dong]

I don't believe Trump was president when this was decided. Last I checked, he hasn't been President for over two years.
Your signature with your comment of "What takes from one woman takes from all "

Got a little issue with it.

When trans people wanted to use the bathroom of choice, any, and I mean any female that had an issue with it was screamed at for being transphobic, homophobic and everything else. It was only about the wants of these people.

Yet, zero consideration for the woman that had suffered sexual abuse or assault at the hands of a male, noting about the woman who suffered psychological abuse at the hands of a male...................just the simple fact that I, as a biological male, can decide tomorrow I identify as a female and you better damn well accept me in your locker room and dressing room and be okay with it, or you are a discriminatory bigot.

So, where was the tolerance for them, or is it simply whoever is the cause du jour that we have tolerance for ? Did the aspects of what effected those women not count ?

I am not sure where you get your information here, but the abortion fight has gone on as long as it has been legalized, there have been many attempts to actually over turn it, only difference, as stated, it was NOT over turned, it was sent back to the states for the will of the people of those states

Your statement about the trans person situation, is something I am seeing so much of, on a regular basis, yet the same people that have the stance of trans rights, are also often vocal about toxic masculinity and the patriarchy........

A idea that was pushed in New Zealand, was that if a male and a female, strangers to each other, were walking down the same street on different sides, the male should change direction and walk a different way to the female so she feels safe, because a solo male following a female could make her feel unsafe........Yet its based on the narrowly defined aspect of a cis male person who has a energy that may be unsettling and unnerving to a female........and I noticed that it uses the basis of two genders only, ignoring non binary and agender people......

its similar to the use of toilets debate, where people focus on the binary gender, ignoring the non binary and agender people, in part as it * muddies the waters *.......
To me, society is always going to struggle with the idea of trans, non binary and agender because so much of society has a bias based on a binary of male and female.....and male bashing is deemed as acceptable but not bashing of a minority such as non binary......its part of why I oppose hate speech laws, as they create an * elite class of people * protected under law but not subject to the same rules as society.......

I am the parent of an adult trans son ( FtM ) and often called transphobic and anti trans because I will not be one sided in my stances.......I support the right of cis women to feel safe in multiple occupancy toilets and changing rooms, while also trying to respect the rights of trans people to use the bathrooms they so choose.......and yes it creates a conflict where a cis persons rights are treated as a non issue while the right of the trans person, are considered paramount...... but the reality is that it comes down to the binary again... and there have been cases where masculine looking cis females have been harassed and targeted for using womens toilets, because of their appearance, which has resulted in cries about the treatment of the cis woman and how wrong it is.......tho they often expect people to magically just know the gender of the cis female, rather than assume by appearance......

A interesting survey done in New Zealand found that the rates of domestic violence were 49% female offender, 51% male offender ( no non binary or gender undefined )..yet most reports on the rates of domestic violence go by charges and convictions rates, its actually estimated that the rates of domestic violence by males in NZ is done by around 8% of males...so for me, the media and gender bias as well as male offending, and feminism bias against males, is fueling the idea that women are not safe in places where males / trans women.......yet totally ignore the idea that trans men ( female to male ) would logically be more at risk in a mens changing room, in the presence of cis gender males.......

I honestly can not see society changing any time soon.... society is too ingrained with their gender bias, and even the people that talk about how they are accepting and tolerant of others, and embracing of non binary etc, often will default to the gender binary when it suits them, specially when it comes to using their own gender as a bias for their opinions and when calling out others.....even myself, will often mention the male and female debate and conflict, bearing in mind the lack of non binary data and information......

[Jazminedress]

See, I am NOT okay with trans using the women's restroom if my daughter does not feel comfortable. Lets have straight talk, want to know why there is hatred , a real answer ?

Simple, even with my sexual orientation, my daughter has rights, her feelings have validation, and when she is attacked, called horrific names, and she is basically told " F you, your feeling don't matter only ours"

And this is less than 5% of the population stating she has to bend to their will. When my daughter is attacked, guess what, I don't give a damn about the LGBTQ community, my child comes first, foremost, and always, it's really that simple. Yes there was hatred before, but it wasn't wide spread, when the attacks started, it got worse.

Many, just like on here are quiet about it, not outspoken, just as you will find many conservatives on here, they just don't speak up. Me, I don't care, I can handle being attacked by the keyboard commandos, it doesn't bother me, many others just don't want to deal with it.

I disagree, I don't think a forced change will be accepted, no one ever wins that way, both sides will lose. Eventually, I believe we are going to find, we are harming our children with the push going on now, and that is backed up by multiple studies, the issue is, the prgoressives don't care about the kids, only the narrative

[chtampa]

Roe V Wade was ruled on in 1973 and the States stopped passing their own legislation after that so you can blame the fifty States for doing nothing for fifty years. Communal bathrooms have been the norm in America for at least the past sixty years and building codes will have to change to make single use bathrooms mandatory. Until then genetics will have to govern the toilet you use or you will face the consequences for your choice. Men and women's bathrooms are separate for that reason and that is socially acceptable. If "Trump" is personally responcible for this then you "Darkeyes" are personally responcible for flying the "Trump baby balloon" when he visited England.

[darkeyes]

Roe V Wade was ruled on in 1973 and the States stopped passing their own legislation after that so you can blame the fifty States for doing nothing for fifty years. Communal bathrooms have been the norm in America for at least the past sixty years and building codes will have to change to make single use bathrooms mandatory. Until then genetics will have to govern the toilet you use or you will face the consequences for your choice. Men and women's bathrooms are separate for that reason and that is socially acceptable. If "Trump" is personally responcible for this then you "Darkeyes" are personally responcible for flying the "Trump baby balloon" when he visited England. I haven't claimed Trump was responsible for the Trans issues under discussion.. I would have loved to have been responsible for flying the Trump Balloon, but alas no... Not me, guv, although I do think it was a brill piece of anti Trump propaganda!!

I have protested against a number of your Presidents over my life, both Republican and Democrat.. Not as often as I have against British Prime Ministers, both Tory and Labour, but you should expect that. I will do again on issues I feel strongly enough about.

[Jazminedress]

So, you are not in this country, you dont intend to live in this country, but you spend time protesting here ?

I mean, I am a British citizen, but as I do not live there, what goes on in the UK, is their issues, not mine

[Long Duck Dong]

See, I am NOT okay with trans using the women's restroom if my daughter does not feel comfortable. Lets have straight talk, want to know why there is hatred , a real answer ?

Simple, even with my sexual orientation, my daughter has rights, her feelings have validation, and when she is attacked, called horrific names, and she is basically told " F you, your feeling don't matter only ours"

And this is less than 5% of the population stating she has to bend to their will. When my daughter is attacked, guess what, I don't give a damn about the LGBTQ community, my child comes first, foremost, and always, it's really that simple. Yes there was hatred before, but it wasn't wide spread, when the attacks started, it got worse.

Many, just like on here are quiet about it, not outspoken, just as you will find many conservatives on here, they just don't speak up. Me, I don't care, I can handle being attacked by the keyboard commandos, it doesn't bother me, many others just don't want to deal with it.

I disagree, I don't think a forced change will be accepted, no one ever wins that way, both sides will lose. Eventually, I believe we are going to find, we are harming our children with the push going on now, and that is backed up by multiple studies, the issue is, the prgoressives don't care about the kids, only the narrative

Welcome to my world.......Yes I have been kicked out of a number of forums for not being one sided / having a stance that only acknowledges one groups concerns, and labeled anti trans / trans phobic, anti LGBT+

To be clear, my stance is based on the awareness and understanding that it also never used to be safe for males to use male toilets in some places because of people cruising for sex, and the chance of being groped by a random stranger, females sexually assaulted in toilets and people assaulted in toilets.....so I am making a point of considering everybodies rights, not just cis women and trans women......

Personally I do not think a ban on trans people using toilets is the answer.... but a compromise can be reached such as using unisex / single occupancy toilets where possible, tho I know of trans people that will argue that their rights give them the right to use the toilet of their choice and fuck everybody else......but thats the same as other activist and radical thinking people who also have the stance of their opinion and stance is right, so fuck everybody else.........

As for your daughter, I agree with you......I would step up and defend my son as well, within reason....tho I would also rip them a new asshole if they were the ones doing the abusing and insulting of others........

[Jazminedress]

.so I am making a point of considering everybodies rights, not just cis women and trans women......

.. but a compromise can be reached such as using unisex / single occupancy toilets where possible, tho I know of trans people that will argue that their rights give them the right to use the toilet of their choice and fuck everybody else......but thats the same as other activist and radical thinking people who also have the stance of their opinion and stance is right, so fuck everybody else.........

..

Thats what I like about you, well reasoned discussion, and it can be kept away from attacking each other. Not sure about there, but, when the whole non-binary stuff started, I already knew what would happen, actually posted it on facebook. It would go to the point if stupid.

We have people who want hate crimes filed for misgendering. Now me, if they are in women's clothing, I will be respectful and address them this way, until they get to the point of telling me what I have to do, then all bets are off.

In the USA, we now have attempts to not assign a gender at birth until the baby decides, doesn't matter that medical care is based on actual gender.

We have a school, where the parents support their daughter who identifies as a cat, yes, a cate. She hisses and people and they have to support this delusion to avoid a lawsuit

Demands that a business give employees two emails, so they can use the one they identify as that day, but of course, you can be in HR and potentially lose your job, if you guess wrong and misgender that day

Lawsuits that doctors have to treat you based on the gender you desire, I mean seriously, how F'ing stupid. I do not believe a biological male can be treated for cervical cancer and probably should still have their prostate checked. 3 doctors , obgyn, have been sued for not treating someone who is trans and still had a penis, I mean, really, where to they stick the speculum ?

At least in America, the writing was on the wall to the level of stupidity it would go too

[Long Duck Dong]

Thats what I like about you, well reasoned discussion, and it can be kept away from attacking each other. Not sure about there, but, when the whole non-binary stuff started, I already knew what would happen, actually posted it on facebook. It would go to the point if stupid.

We have people who want hate crimes filed for misgendering. Now me, if they are in women's clothing, I will be respectful and address them this way, until they get to the point of telling me what I have to do, then all bets are off.

In the USA, we now have attempts to not assign a gender at birth until the baby decides, doesn't matter that medical care is based on actual gender.

We have a school, where the parents support their daughter who identifies as a cat, yes, a cate. She hisses and people and they have to support this delusion to avoid a lawsuit

Demands that a business give employees two emails, so they can use the one they identify as that day, but of course, you can be in HR and potentially lose your job, if you guess wrong and misgender that day

Lawsuits that doctors have to treat you based on the gender you desire, I mean seriously, how F'ing stupid. I do not believe a biological male can be treated for cervical cancer and probably should still have their prostate checked. 3 doctors , obgyn, have been sued for not treating someone who is trans and still had a penis, I mean, really, where to they stick the speculum ?

At least in America, the writing was on the wall to the level of stupidity it would go too

Lol New Zealand is trying to catch up to America........

The government here wanted to introduce hate speech laws but not just for minorities, it also covered unemployment, being on a benefit, single parent, religion, political leanings etc.....and the people that wanted hate speech laws, immediately opposed the law as it would apply to everybody equally, without favouring some and penalising others......but demanding equality and equal treatment for all.......anyways the government has said that they have revised hate speech laws and plan to have them in NZ within the next year.......they will never stop hate speech, they will simply label more things as hate speech and fuck more people off.........

Its a melting pot of stupidity here in NZ....we have X and undefined on the birth cert, as well as male and female, but often the same people using X and undefined, want to use gender labeled facilities and have gender based rights when it suits them........

Now yes the hate crime for misgendering.....yeah people want that here in NZ as well, and it looks like it may happen....however its going to create more shit and problems than it will fix, as not all misgendering is a hate crime or deliberately done, and at times its caused by the non binary / trans person themselves........

One problem we are seeing more of, is people that ID as one gender but have documentation that says they are another gender....and under NZ law, businesses are obligated to protect the rights of people based on their documented gender, IE no males in females toilets....however we have trans people going into the females toilets and saying my rights, when they are legally listed as male......
The problem is that businesses are also not allowed to discriminate on the grounds of gender, including the rights of trans gender people so the business legally has to allow them to access the toilets

So the business is wrong no matter what they do....and you have some people screaming about male in womens toilets, while others are screaming about transphobia and denial of access.... of course its never the trans person themselves thats at fault for having gender ID that does not match their gender identity, its the systems fault for * making it too hard to change their gender identity *....... that was changed for the most part, in NZ tho trans people still complained that they had to pay for the change....

Its why I got out of business ownership and owning / co owning LGBT+ websites.....too many fights and arguments caused by people wanting to be right but have different rules for different people......I treat everybody the same way, regardless of gender and sexual orientation, race and culture, but I refuse to try and follow laws and guidelines that require me to do one thing that is in breach of other laws and guidelines......and for me thats the problem with anti discrimination laws and guidelines vs health and safety laws and guidelines, they often conflict.......

Now my son for a number of years, used one name and gender that was different to their legal documentation that was under another name and gender... and it did result in a few businesses being accused of dead naming and misgendering them....it ended up with me getting in the face of one person who was abusing the staff, and telling that person to back up and go after the person actually creating the problem, my son......I promptly got told to stop victim blaming... and my response was to say the staff are the victims here, they are getting abused by you because my son, who you are too gutless to call out, is using two different identities and creating the fucking problem for the staff......

My sons reason for not changing their documentation ? they had to pay for it......they finally got a government dept to pay for the change by playing the * victim card *.. and to be honest I was not impressed or happy, a man should be responsible for their actions, not act like a female and blame other people........wrong thing to say, I know, but NZ is full of females putting the responsibility and blame on men, not themselves.....


Something that I have seen in other places, is the claim of erasure of woman / women as gender labels and others have said that it will not happen....yet in NZ it is happening....the midwivery accusation has decided to remove the words woman and women, replacing it with whanau, the NZ maori ( indigenious people ) word for family and extended family.....cos they provide a service for the family.......in more and more areas, gender terms are being replaced using the guise of gender neutral or language changes.... such as some teachers wanting to be called whea ( means mother ) rather than teacher or miss /mrs/ ms.. and of course if people object they are labeled as racist, when they are actually objecting to their kids being forced to call another person mother, or objecting to their children being reprimanded for forcing to address the teacher that way......

This will make you laugh or just shake your head and say what the FUCK?????? when I was running online gaming companies, one of my rules was discrimination, bullying and intolerance of people on the grounds of religion, culture, gender identity or sexual orientation will not be tolerated.... and I had people argue that cis and hetero were exempt because they were not gender identities, sexual orientations or minorities.....and that targeting people because they were white, was not racist and they were not a minority.......

I would just reply with my rules are not prejudiced or biased, they treat everybody equally and the same way, its not who is targeted that I go by, its the actions, opinions and stances......and bias / prejudice and animosity towards ANY person, is judged according to the situation, not the person doing it or the * victim * as often the * victim * is also an offender themselves, because they are doing the same shit right back........


Honestly, jaz...I will not label america as the lead in the race to be the most stupid country in history, as that blanket labels too many intelligent americans....but honestly NZ is coming up a close second and I think that between NZ and the UK, its going to be a photo finish for first place........and with any luck I will be dead before some complete idiot succeeds in making everybody all equal and the same by wiping out the human race, cos thats the only way equality will ever happen, lol.....

[Long Duck Dong]

I was just reading before that trump has announced his intention to run for the 2024 election,,, and no I am not going to trump bash

honestly its things like trade deals, exchange rates and markets that affect me more than trumps tweets... and also the near rabid anti trump rhetoric that I see in other sites......

In New Zealand, and I dare say the UK, as well as the US, a lot of voters can barely list their party policies, and many are die hard red or blue voters, and personally I am not the type of person that uses a thinking of * repubs support repub policies and leaders and demos support demo policies and leaders * as some people really only have a choice of voting for red or blue as the chances of any other party ( independants ) getting in, are slim to none.....and honestly I think that some people are also opposition voters, they do not support the party they vote for, they just oppose the other party

Personally I am actually apolitical, I do not support any party or leader, I may agree or disagree with things based on merit and consequence.....and for all the good that a government does with some policies, its always balanced out by the policies that make a right mess of things.....my vote more often than not, is decided by policies and the potential benefits to NZ, and I have voted for policies that I do not support or agree with because the merits of the policies have good implications.......

Either way, I just wish people would lay off the trump and biden bashing and focus more on their policies and the implications of them because its the policies that affect people and countries, not ego and insults

[darkeyes]

So, you are not in this country, you dont intend to live in this country, but you spend time protesting here ?

I mean, I am a British citizen, but as I do not live there, what goes on in the UK, is their issues, not mineI spend much time protesting about what I perceive to be wrongs wherever I find them.. Mostly my own country but elsewhere, including the US. From the middle of next year I will be resident in France.. Doesn't mean I won't take an interest in what happens here... Or won't act upon the injustices I find existing in Scotland or the wider UK. I will still be able to vote, but even if I couldn't I'd still involve myself in the politics of the country my birth as much as time allows.

[chtampa]

If the voters of a country wish to have a certain person as a leader, why would it be anyone's concern outside of that country. I see it more like a school yard group of bully's ganging up on another just to follow the crowd. Mostly in retaliation for what has been done to them in the past. Luckily that has never happened to anyone because of their sexuality or it would seem like a revenge thing and look petty and unimpressive.

[Neonaught]

I live in Texas in a deep red county so I have been surrounded by Republicans for decades. I find it funny that Trumpers scream "My body, my choice!" when it comes to taking vaccines but "Your body, my choice!" when it comes to abortion. Anyone from either party that speaks favorably of the US becoming a dictatorship will never have my support/

[Lucky 61]

I live in Texas in a deep red county so I have been surrounded by Republicans for decades. I find it funny that Trumpers scream "My body, my choice!" when it comes to taking vaccines but "Your body, my choice!" when it comes to abortion. Anyone from either party that speaks favorably of the US becoming a dictatorship will never have my support/

And that's different than the blue sides version of "My body my choice" which only in reality affects a small percentage of the population. How many women are actually faced with the decision of whether to have an abortion? I have no skin in that game. As for mandatory vaccinations, that's a totally different thing. The plan was to force every single person to submit to being injected with an experimental drug whose long term side effects are unknown. Which side is actually becoming a dictatorship?

[Jazminedress]

I live in Texas in a deep red county so I have been surrounded by Republicans for decades. I find it funny that Trumpers scream "My body, my choice!" when it comes to taking vaccines but "Your body, my choice!" when it comes to abortion. Anyone from either party that speaks favorably of the US becoming a dictatorship will never have my support/

The difference on a vaccine, which, (just for laughs, the guy who developed MRNA is against it)..............a vaccine effects me. An abortion effects a baby that is not given a choice. Now before we start the , it's not a baby until it's born, then why are people in prison for assaulting a mother and she looses the baby, they are on trial for murder. Or a car accident, if it's just a cluster of cells, they why are you sued for death of a baby

[Jazminedress]

I spend much time protesting about what I perceive to be wrongs wherever I find them.. Mostly my own country but elsewhere, including the US. From the middle of next year I will be resident in France.. Doesn't mean I won't take an interest in what happens here... Or won't act upon the injustices I find existing in Scotland or the wider UK. I will still be able to vote, but even if I couldn't I'd still involve myself in the politics of the country my birth as much as time allows.

Respectable

[Long Duck Dong]

And that's different than the blue sides version of "My body my choice" which only in reality affects a small percentage of the population. How many women are actually faced with the decision of whether to have an abortion? I have no skin in that game. As for mandatory vaccinations, that's a totally different thing. The plan was to force every single person to submit to being injected with an experimental drug whose long term side effects are unknown. Which side is actually becoming a dictatorship?

I live in New Zealand, double vaxxed and still got covid...but I bear in mind that covid is a virus that is constantly changing so the vax may have not worked against the variation I caught........

Now we did have mandatory vaccinations in NZ, which did get opposition and protestors saying things like * their body, their rights * but they also did not want any restrictions on them because of their choice, and a number of them lost their jobs in various roles because of their choice, and bitched about it, blaming the government....and for many of us, the arguments against vaccinations were reading just like the argument against speeding fines and speed cameras as revenue collecting and not reducing speeding, and the idea that a requirement to have a drivers licence, is obeying the road laws, apparently means nothing as people can not see a problem with speeding, just with getting caught and fined for speeding.......

During lockdown when the whole country was basically quarantined for near 5 weeks, it was not a big issue but afterwards, in order to restrict the spread of covid, yes the government pushed mandatory vaxxing or lose your jobs.......and businesses were already struggling with so many workers off work with covid, which affected supply chains, manufacturing etc etc......and it has ended up closing down a number of businesses and manufacturers, limiting supplies in supermarkets

Honestly if people did not want to get vaxxed or wear masks, fine, let them pay the cost of the businesses when they got covid and took it into their work place.......and the most common argument is that is draconic and uncalled for.......my response is its simply a consequence of choice, just like speeding.......and if I make a conscious decision not to speed and obey the road laws, there is still a chance I will end up in a crash, but the chances that the crash will be caused by somebody else not obeying the road laws, becomes higher........and I become a victim of their actions and choices......

As for the vaccination, its not a experimental drug, vaccinations are generally created using the same platform as existing vaccinations, and things like the flu vaccination.....admittedly, it was semi rushed under pressure because covid was not sitting around like a govt dept making decisions, it was racing around like speeding drivers and idiot drivers, causing so many deaths and major disruption.......but how long would be acceptable in your eyes when it comes to trialing the vaccination to see the long term effects....and how many deaths are acceptable.....????

Personally I am not anti or pro vax myself, I am neutral.....most of the pro vax arguments consist of do as you are told because you are placing everybody else at risk ( actually they only are if they have covid, they are not if they do not have covid ) and the anti crowd with their majority misinformation, need to be non conforming and arguing MY body MY rights but I should be exempt from the consequences of my choice......just like speeding drivers......

I have lost 17 people that had covid, tho I am quick to admit that covid on top of other medical issues, contributed to their demise, in most cases, only 3 died directly as a result of covid, and suffered rare side effects from covid ( affecting the heart ), and I know of 2 that died from the vaccination, again very rare side effects to something in the vaccination.......so the chances of dying from the vaccination are still far out weighed by the chances of dying from covid....yet its actually the loss of businesses, manufacturing and supply chains that is really hurting so many people

[Jazminedress]

I have lost 17 people that had covid, tho I am quick to admit that covid on top of other medical issues, contributed to their demise, in most cases, only 3 died directly as a result of covid, and suffered rare side effects from covid ( affecting the heart ), and I know of 2 that died from the vaccination, again very rare side effects to something in the vaccination.......so the chances of dying from the vaccination are still far out weighed by the chances of dying from covid....yet its actually the loss of businesses, manufacturing and supply chains that is really hurting so many people

here, In New York a judge just ruled that people who lost their jobs must be re-hired, and receive back pay. In the beginning, I took a ton of clack for saying masks were useless and got attacked by all the google Masters degree people. Even though the information was there, the COVID molecule is 60nm to 100nm, the blue surgical masks stopped nothing under 300nm. And lets be real, if a pair of jeans and boxers cant stop the smell of a fart, your grandmas home made mask was not stopping the deadliest virus known to man.

Then, when a guy who got shot in the head twice got listed as COVID, and a guy who ran a motorcycle into a truck at 100mph got listed as COVID, I called BS. Since then, The government has rolled back , quietly, 25% of the deaths and has admitted 96% of the deaths had two or more pre-existing conditions where the common cold could have been serious to them.

Then our CDC came out and stated, the masks are just pretty face decorations..............but hey, Pfizer and their buddies made 100billion dollars, but hmmmmmm, nothing to see here at all.

BTW, I have now finished 5 times COVID positive, but I am overall a relatively healthy person

[Long Duck Dong]

here, In New York a judge just ruled that people who lost their jobs must be re-hired, and receive back pay. In the beginning, I took a ton of clack for saying masks were useless and got attacked by all the google Masters degree people. Even though the information was there, the COVID molecule is 60nm to 100nm, the blue surgical masks stopped nothing under 300nm. And lets be real, if a pair of jeans and boxers cant stop the smell of a fart, your grandmas home made mask was not stopping the deadliest virus known to man.

Then, when a guy who got shot in the head twice got listed as COVID, and a guy who ran a motorcycle into a truck at 100mph got listed as COVID, I called BS. Since then, The government has rolled back , quietly, 25% of the deaths and has admitted 96% of the deaths had two or more pre-existing conditions where the common cold could have been serious to them.

Then our CDC came out and stated, the masks are just pretty face decorations..............but hey, Pfizer and their buddies made 100billion dollars, but hmmmmmm, nothing to see here at all.

BTW, I have now finished 5 times COVID positive, but I am overall a relatively healthy person

yeah the blue surgical face masks they had here, in NZ were not effective at all.....but the government cited the cost to themselves and businesses of providing the correct type of mask, as prohibitive......but they still made masks mandatory because the government wanted to be seen to be taking action against covid......

Court action in NZ against the governments mandatory vaccination program, failed, with the judge ruling that people were entitled to exercise their rights not to get vaccinated but that did not apply to them refusing to follow company and business guidelines for the work place or schools.....tho there was also the fact that the court case plaintiffs were not exactly coming across as credible with one saying that MIG hotels ( Hotels used as isolation areas for overseas travellers coming to NZ ) were the same as nazi concentration camps......and another one claiming that vaccinations were making people infertile, citing studies done over the last 5 years, a few years more than the covid vaccination has been around........

We are still averaging 4000 cases a day in New Zealand, with around 1.9 million total cases and around 2,100 deaths where covid has been a factor ).. and the main issue honestly is businesses, manufacturing and supply chains constantly being disrupted by sick staff.......but also contributing factors are reduced spending, loss of patronage, as well as factors like imports and exports, manufacturing etc also being affected overseas.....and the inflation is not helping either lol.......

Ironic thing, reports ( after level 4 lockdown ) found that people with mental illness / suicidal tendencies reported a reduction in stress, anxiety and suicide attempts, the opposite of what the experts claimed would happen.....but as those people said, it was less stressful, there was no pressure to go out and socialise, nobody telling them what to think and feel and do... or to suck it up........ and it was the * normal * people that actually struggled the most with being at home with their partners, with divorce proceedings and relationships ending, increasing with many people were actually saying that they realised how little they actually knew or loved their partners......they just never noticed it because they were normally too busy with work and socialising / going out for dinners, talking with friends etc.......

ME ? I just turned off the phone and the PC and spent 5 weeks reading books and playing single player games on my Xbox... it was fucking bliss......

[darkeyes]

Respectable

A tadge patronising, but I will let it pass..

I've oft been criticised in these forums, for straying off topic and distraction, but quite a few have done a triff old job of both in this topic.. O well, alls fair in love and war and politics..

[Jazminedress]

A tadge patronising, but I will let it pass..

I've oft been criticised in these forums, for straying off topic and distraction, but quite a few have done a triff old job of both in this topic.. O well, alls fair in love and war and politics..

Maybe it is mistranslation from one culture to another...................but I do not see any way on Gods Green Earth that stating that you stay involved in your home countries issues is "Respectable" is any kind of patronising, unless Ireland has a different definition of the word ?

Here it simply means you respect what someone is doing whether you agree or not, so I am sorry you took it the wrong way

[chtampa]

I find people interesting. They rally, demand, petition, complain that they want their views and preferences about their life respected and get so very incensed when these things do not happen. When the day comes that all these things are theirs, they then start attacking other peoples views, preferences and decide that respecting others is not important. Do they forget so soon? Were they just wanting to cross over to the other side to feel what it is like to attack for once? Or, are they just selfish and nobody matters but themselves? I always wonder what people were like when they were the victim and how different they are now. People are a real trip.

[beamish13]

The difference on a vaccine, which, (just for laughs, the guy who developed MRNA is against it)..............a vaccine effects me. An abortion effects a baby that is not given a choice. Now before we start the , it's not a baby until it's born, then why are people in prison for assaulting a mother and she looses the baby, they are on trial for murder. Or a car accident, if it's just a cluster of cells, they why are you sued for death of a baby


you are absolutely mental

also, it is AFFECTS, not EFFECTS, in this context, you moron

[Long Duck Dong]

I find people interesting. They rally, demand, petition, complain that they want their views and preferences about their life respected and get so very incensed when these things do not happen. When the day comes that all these things are theirs, they then start attacking other peoples views, preferences and decide that respecting others is not important. Do they forget so soon? Were they just wanting to cross over to the other side to feel what it is like to attack for once? Or, are they just selfish and nobody matters but themselves? I always wonder what people were like when they were the victim and how different they are now. People are a real trip.

Comes down to two things, their demand for rights and the need to be right........its why I say that for most people, acceptance, tolerance and understanding is a catch phrase they use, not something they do......

For me, acceptance, tolerance and understanding starts with me, not with everybody else.... and while I may dislike or disagree with people, I am the one that chooses if I get in to fights and arguments with them, or I just say ok and walk away.........while people argue that fighting for rights is a good thing, the problem is they confuse fighting for rights with fighting to stop people having rights.......

The proposed hate speech and hate crimes laws for NZ are a prime example....the people that are demanding them, also do not want the same laws applying to themselves...they want protection for minorities such as races and cultures, as well as gender and sex orientation but want the freedom to have opinions that are offensive, about white, cis, straight males, churches and religion, people on benefits, unemployed...and they want the right to label people as biased and phobic bigots but not be labeled as prejudiced and biased bigots themselves....

[Jazminedress]

you are absolutely mental

also, it is AFFECTS, not EFFECTS, in this context, you moron

Skippy, I thought we settled this...............You know, I miss the times when children were seen and not heard, but hey, gold star for you champ, you caught me in a typo.
Arn't you mommy's tough little soldier.

BTW- you do realize, you make yourself look dumber with every single comment you make right ?
And, the reality, you do not have the brain capacity to argue with someone like me, you really really don't, so please, for the sake of your own dignity, stop trying

[csreef]

Skippy, I thought we settled this...............You know, I miss the times when children were seen and not heard, but hey, gold star for you champ, you caught me in a typo.
Arn't you mommy's tough little soldier.

BTW- you do realize, you make yourself look dumber with every single comment you make right ?
And, the reality, you do not have the brain capacity to argue with someone like me, you really really don't, so please, for the sake of your own dignity, stop trying

Ouch!!!

[beamish13]

It is just amazing to me that a site catering to men who cheat on their wives with other men is so conservative

actually, no, that sounds about right.

[Jazminedress]

It is just amazing to me that a site catering to men who cheat on their wives with other men is so conservative

actually, no, that sounds about right.

awwwwwww Skippy, how cute, you claim to be from the party of love and tolerance, yet here you show consistently, how full of hate as a liberal you are..............sounds about right.

Ohhhhh look, you can tell mommy how tough you are on the internet again, maybe she will let you play with her Iphone again

[csreef]

awwwwwww Skippy, how cute, you claim to be from the party of love and tolerance, yet here you show consistently, how full of hate as a liberal you are..............sounds about right.

Ohhhhh look, you can tell mommy how tough you are on the internet again, maybe she will let you play with her Iphone again

Oh my god too funny!

[Jazminedress]

Oh my god too funny!

What he wants is an echo chamber of the narrative he wants. There are plenty of great Liberals out there. I can respect their points even if I disagree. Skippy here, is one of those that even if Trump cured cancer, he would find a way to hate. My guess, was never much of anything when young , now, with the internet can be a tough guy, or yell and scream at people, then block them or go away and tell himself he showed them and be smug, I see it all the time..............I see it with conservatives also.

I think in many way, social media, with the added bias of what ever actual media you chose, has created mental illness. You get a young girl who shows enough short skirts or low cut tops, gets a bunch of likes by horny guys, suddenly she is a little demi God in her own world.

As soon as you except or question something, your narrative gets destroyed, therefore your identity comes into question.

Look at Skippys comment " a site catering to men who cheat on their wives is so conservative"

Never mind, this is entirely a fabrication in his own mind, but moronic................so when someone either doesn't get into the profanity insults with him, or his general accusations wont work, he has nothing left. I mean, a bisexual conservative in a dress, what accusation can you make that wont be laughed at ? Plus, I really don't care who knows I am conservative, don't like it, not your life

I actually feel sorry for someone that pathetic in life, seriously, how miserable is his life.

For anyone else that is Liberal, I love good educated discussion......................and when the time comes to agree to disagree, we settle it at the voting booth

[DD788Snipe]

Damn it I wish this site had the like button.

:thumbu::thumbu::thumbu::thumbu::thumbu:

5 thumbs up Jaz.

[chtampa]

What he wants is an echo chamber of the narrative he wants. There are plenty of great Liberals out there. I can respect their points even if I disagree. Skippy here, is one of those that even if Trump cured cancer, he would find a way to hate. My guess, was never much of anything when young , now, with the internet can be a tough guy, or yell and scream at people, then block them or go away and tell himself he showed them and be smug, I see it all the time..............I see it with conservatives also.

I think in many way, social media, with the added bias of what ever actual media you chose, has created mental illness. You get a young girl who shows enough short skirts or low cut tops, gets a bunch of likes by horny guys, suddenly she is a little demi God in her own world.

As soon as you except or question something, your narrative gets destroyed, therefore your identity comes into question.

Look at Skippys comment " a site catering to men who cheat on their wives is so conservative"

Never mind, this is entirely a fabrication in his own mind, but moronic................so when someone either doesn't get into the profanity insults with him, or his general accusations wont work, he has nothing left. I mean, a bisexual conservative in a dress, what accusation can you make that wont be laughed at ? Plus, I really don't care who knows I am conservative, don't like it, not your life

I actually feel sorry for someone that pathetic in life, seriously, how miserable is his life.

For anyone else that is Liberal, I love good educated discussion......................and when the time comes to agree to disagree, we settle it at the voting booth

The term is "parrot", where things are just repeated because verification is not required. The gossip is just so good it needs to be repeated.

[Jazminedress]

The term is "parrot", where things are just repeated because verification is not required. The gossip is just so good it needs to be repeated.

I heard a term years ago, someone took clips of news channels the same night, all independent stations and they were using the exact same buzzwords, almost like, it was planned. They called it operation mockingbird, but haven't heard that in a while

[Jazminedress]

Damn it I wish this site had the like button.

:thumbu::thumbu::thumbu::thumbu::thumbu:

5 thumbs up Jaz.
Thanks, it would be too easy to have a cursing contest, no point in it..............my other personality is much harsher. If he ever wants to have quality discussion, I am up for it. It would be boring if we all liked and agreed on everything.

I mean, some of you think pineapple on pizza.............................ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww w

[Long Duck Dong]

I heard a term years ago, someone took clips of news channels the same night, all independent stations and they were using the exact same buzzwords, almost like, it was planned. They called it operation mockingbird, but haven't heard that in a while

Ahhh yeah, copy / paste news reports..... we have them here in New Zealand and you can always tell because when the first outfit to report something, gets it wrong, all the other outfits make the same identical mistake.....yet they tell us they are all independently verified reports by professional journalists.....

As my partner says, if you want to hear truth in reporting and media, just watch different media outlets and stations, you will get all 20+ versions of the truth

[BiBedBud]

The laws limiting or eliminating abortion access in any given jurisdiction, have *nothing* to do with whether or not abortions will occur within that jurisdiction. The only thing the laws decide is where and under what conditions will abortions occur. The laws determine: Will women have timely access to safe, medically-supervised care performed by competent healthcare professionals? Or, are women obliged to desperately seek-out the termination of their pregnancies from some much less safe provider, under needlessly more dangerous conditions, or otherwise lacking from the medical standard of care.

Please note I’m sparing everyone the grotesque invective I could use, but make no mistake – abortion bans are *BRUTAL* to those in need, and the results of such bans are too often *OBSCENE*. Also note, the “quick” solution of traveling elsewhere for safe abortion access is not available to everyone. Appalling human desperation is an inherent evil of overly restricted access to safe and timely medical care – exceedingly so in the case of a vulnerable woman up against that unrelenting clock.

[Neonaught]

The laws limiting or eliminating abortion access in any given jurisdiction, have *nothing* to do with whether or not abortions will occur within that jurisdiction. The only thing the laws decide is where and under what conditions will abortions occur. The laws determine: Will women have timely access to safe, medically-supervised care performed by competent healthcare professionals? Or, are women obliged to desperately seek-out the termination of their pregnancies from some much less safe provider, under needlessly more dangerous conditions, or otherwise lacking from the medical standard of care.

Please note I’m sparing everyone the grotesque invective I could use, but make no mistake – abortion bans are *BRUTAL* to those in need, and the results of such bans are too often *OBSCENE*. Also note, the “quick” solution of traveling elsewhere for safe abortion access is not available to everyone. Appalling human desperation is an inherent evil of overly restricted access to safe and timely medical care – exceedingly so in the case of a vulnerable woman up against that unrelenting clock.

Having worked in hospitals for decades I can tell you that the wealthier folks will always be able to discretely get their abortions but for the middle class and poor it is a different story.

[BiBedBud]

LEST WE FORGET: There are all kinds of women who are happy to be pregnant and want to deliver their child into the world; but who, alas, have been stricken by the cruelty of fate to an unviable or even a life-threatening pregnancy. Blanket bans on abortion access leave these women to their “fate”. Some women will be rendered infertile if they are forced to carry their non-viable foetus to term, and some will die needlessly along the way, horrifically. In my opinion, denying anyone medical care when the means are at hand, is barbaric!

Thankfully, most terminations these days are done quite safely with medications alone (which can be ordered online and delivered discreetly through the mail). Of course, this isn’t for everyone and there are time window limits that are tighter than for procedural terminations. (NB: I can already see some state-level or even local anti-abortion zealots attempting to intercept this kind of medical delivery; so, I’d like to remind everyone that tampering with the mail is a federal crime. Fuck around and find out how humorless are the postal inspectors (i.e. police) and federal prosecutors backing them. Also, do you really wanna add another drug to the ‘War on Drugs’? The likely failure of such measures gives me much hope for continued access to the necessary meds, one way or another. (Just sayin’…)

[BiBedBud]

From what I understand; and this is true in both the USA and my own beloved Canada (where 1 in 6 of my Canadian Sisters and Aunties have had the procedure (https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/one-in-six-women-in-canada-have-had-an-abortion-survey-1.6163233)); most women seeking abortions are already mothers, with one or more children at home already. These women are making what they have determined is the responsible choice in the best interests of their own families. She knows the limits under which she must raise her children, and is observing those limits by keeping her family smaller. Doing anything else seems risky, perhaps dangerous and certainly uneconomical -- in other words, a terrible idea and a significant hardship for everyone in the household. Her sovereignty in these decisions should be considered *SACROSANCT*, as she is the one to best understand her conditions and options, and the person who must live with the consequences of her decision. You could fairly consider that the accountability for such decisions is in-built, and that should reasonably be enough for anybody, except that "the patriarchy" (unreasonably) demands more (as a facet of their deeply rooted misogyny).


THIS BRINGS ME TO A TANGENT: While I wholeheartedly support the "Pro-Choice" side of this particular societal divide; I've got to disagree with the way they've framed their arguments, not for ideological reasons, but in terms of their messaging quality. Consider, it can be something of an uphill battle to advocate with some people, for abortion access; because they've long been conditioned to view things through a religious or other authoritarian lens (so they lose sight of the patient). Perhaps more importantly, when some men hear this Pro-Choice call, their first thought is selfish and stupid, and they may even consider "I'll never want an abortion for myself, so these abortion access restrictions don't really bother me too much. Maybe I can even preserve my relationship, by keeping her barefoot and pregnant ? no way she'll leave me if I'm the only one who'll have her'.

I know, this is a disgusting train of thought, and only disgusting men would entertain such ideas; but there's the problem -- these troglodytes vote too.

IMHO the Pro-Choice Movement should entirely rebrand itself in the theme of "Bodily Autonomy" or "Personal Sovereignty", which are neither gendered propositions, nor are they limited to abortion access alone. The preeminent precepts should be "Sovereign in Your Own Skin" and "Nothing between You and Your Doctors" (neither governments, insurance companies, churches nor employers should have any say or standing in terms of what healthcare you do or don't receive). Anything less than this is hostile to the Hippocratic/medical ethics oaths doctors are required to take and to serve.

RELEVANT OBSERVATION: The suggestion immediately above, during the COVID-19 Pandemic, would have been cited as a reason why nobody could be forced to receive a vaccine injection against their will. It would also provide that masking may be required (since this is over-the-skin and is not bodily invasive -- much as I may dislike wearing a mask). If these principles were in practice, they would have withstood the ethical challenges of the pandemic.

[BiBedBud]

CONSIDER: A patient is a whole person, that is, a combination of body, mind and spirit. While it might be physically or medically possible for a woman to carry any given pregnancy to term; doing so might cause grievous psychological trauma, spiritual harm or even moral jeopardy. For one notable example: Post-Partum Depression is a very serious condition which may even lead to a complete psychotic break -- we're talking murder/suicide and all kinds of attendant mayhem. (And for what? If the harm can be prevented, then why not?) Women who have suffered one 'bout' of PPD and recovered (which isn't a given) have often reported they would rather die than 'go through that again', and they're serious -- so why not spare them that grave hardship? Can it ever be morally justified to push someone to suicide?

Now also consider that many people have genes they have decided would be best not to pass onto to future generations. They may have physical or psychological ailments they wouldn't curse another person with -- and for these people, their decision to abort a pregnancy is actually a moral imperative. Which third-party's ignorant self-righteousness should be allowed to outweigh that person's well-informed and sovereign decision concerning their own genetic legacy (or lack thereof)? Whose 'moral yardstick' should apply to these judgements? More importantly, on what basis is any other's judgements of such personal choices ever valid or even welcome? ("Judge not, lest ye be judged!")

RELEVANT REMINDER: If you're the kind of person who has ever railed about the "evils of big government", then you've got no cause now to demand the government get between someone's legs in any way. Perverted "geniuses" in America's south have surmounted this hypocrisy by effectively deputizing all and sundry to sue women who seek abortions and those who provide them for $10k each, per each count. They've established a legal bounty system that pays-out people who bring private action for damages stemming from an abortion they may have absolutely no fucking relation to.

Under this regime, American women subject to this jurisdiction have now had their uteruses effectively "nationalized by the state of Texas" (and OK, AR, MS, LA, etc). There are now rules how the owners of said uteruses may lawfully operate their entire body, under specific conditions determined by what their uterus is doing at the moment.
DOES THIS SOUND LIKE 'FREEDOM' TO YOU?

[Jazminedress]

If there was only a way to make a choice, before it involves another human being............there is so much you left out there.

Like, it is only a set of cells, well, unless you are involved in a car accident then it becomes a baby again
Around 50% of abortions are done on people who have already had one or more, so, if you give a pass the first time, it seems we go make the same mistake again
everyone wants to hang their hat on 3 things, incest, rape and medical necessity, which accounts for less than 18%................

Birth control is free in schools, birth control with obamacare and many other ways is also free. With implants and everything you can bring failure rate down to 1%...........and yes, the man can get snipped. Education is better than ever............not too mention, the whole Roe vs Wade, she never had an abortion , it was purely a political case

What you call a religious view, I term a respect for human life. And as someone who has seen in other countries what cartels have done, rebels and so called freedom fighters have done, and working as a paramedic in gang infested areas, I call it a respect and value of human life, including those who cannot defend themselves

[BiBedBud]

Abortion providers and those who work in their clinics, will all tell you that it's not uncommon for a "Pro-Life" woman to find all sorts of rationalizations for her own termination procedure. These are the "rules for thee, not for me" types of hypocrites, who will rail against a woman in need seeking care, and later sneak-in to the very same clinic to find the compassionate medicine they would deny to others with audacious relish.

Other types of "Pro-Life" hypocrites include all of those who concurrently support capital punishment, as if that's not killing. These people are OK with state-sanctioned murder because it gives them a "justice boner". They cling to what they'd describe as "an eye for an eye", even though it all too often results in the killing of innocent poor people who have real lives including living dependents and unfulfilled dreams, but sadly, not the funds for a Johnny Cochran legal defense against a "crusading district attorney". In those instances where the legal system has properly adjudicated an actual guilty person and sentenced them to death; it takes so long to execute them that they're effectively killing a different person (because people change, especially after years living on death row).

Similarly, many anti-abortionists' outlook on the use of military force would indicate they are in fact, not entirely "Pro-Life". This is especially true for many American "Pro-Lifers", who actually enjoy what they see of war on TV. Indeed, for many Americans it's "popcorn time" when the war coverage comes on the nightly news (particularly those sanitized US-DOD supplied gun-camera views from 15,000 feet -- this actually constitutes entertainment for some of them -- for they know not the evil they do). They plainly do not comprehend their own moral degeneracy, which is often embodied by complacency, acquiescence and abstractions about the inherent honour of military duty, where morality is routinely suspended in service of so-called patriotism (which is to say, in service of the banksters and the oilers and the whole military-industrial complex -- the "self-licking ice cream cone" of profitable death and destruction that actually runs America).

To quote someone else I cannot now remember? [QUOTE]

"The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn. [END QUOTE]

Another brand of hypocrisy is in evidence whenever a so-called "Pro-Lifer" champions adoption as a completely viable alternative to abortion access. Simply ask them how many children they've adopted, and you'll most often hear "None" if they're being honest. Ask them how many they're planning to adopt. The same answer of "None" will be offered, if this intentionally slippery person isn't lying to your face (which they are well practiced at doing -- making a whole industry of fake "clinics" that provide no care at all, just religious propaganda to women seeking abortions). Ask these hypocrites "Oh, so you volunteer at an orphanage or group foster home? Or do you just donate or raise money for them?" Of course, these sorts of morally bankrupt hypocrites don't do any of these things. They only judge and moralize, even though they've got absolutely no skin in the game.

I loath such judgy-preachy types of hypocrites so much; I wouldn't ever want to have sex with them, even though I'm a man and there's no chance of me getting pregnant.

Yeah, I'm political that way. I'm not looking for sex from wherever I can find it. I'm selective, and politics very definitely feature in my selection criteria. Of course, I have other selection criteria as well, but I'm a lot more flexible about most of those, compared to my political litmus tests. I don't think this has ever been a barrier for me to have someone that I desired.