DO KINKS DEFINE SEXUALITY?

[tenni]

"I'm not condemning lust, as I think it is an important, maybe "darker aspect" of ourselves (humans) to recognized and accept it as a PART of what we are."

If a person presents their sexual pleasure from kink as their sexuality, are they correct and in touch with a darker aspect of themselves?

Lust is not kink. Noun - kinkAs in "a kink". sexual tastes for a person. Usually a kink is an unusual taste in sexual behaviour. Lust is a very strong sexual desire. Bisexuals may have a strong desire /attraction for both genders. Does that make their kink correct to define a sexuality? If you lust for both genders then you are bisexual whether that lust is purely physical and/or emotional.

Sexual taste is individualistic to some extent regardless of your sexuality.

Is a heterosexual man who is not interested in cock sucking from a man but enjoys it from a woman ignoring a darker aspect of themselves or in touch with who they are and what they are?

A person may enjoy or even be repulsed by an image and it may have nothing to do with their sexuality. It may have nothing to do with how the sexuality is defined but more connected to some kink or perversion from all sexualities.

To enjoy watersports doesn't mean that you are gay....bi ..or straight. Watersports is a kink that is non sexuality specific. It defines no sexuality as a key component of what it is to be bisexual etc.

[charles-smythe]

http://imagehost.thasnasty.com/?di=X3VR

[Melody Dean]

Hm, interesting question.

As it relates to bisexuality, I have a similar question in my head.

Is there such thing as bisexual lust and a bisexual kink, and are they two different things?

Which personally makes me wonder if I'm attracted to females more as a kink than lust. It's less how I'm attracted to them, but possibly on an introspective level, the why...

[Browne]

Well, if the foundation of the conversation is "sex", we can break down the motivations for desiring sex to be either lead by the desiring of emotional connection (we might call this love) or lead by the desiring of physical contact (we might call this lust). You cannot have "sex" (as a human anyways) in purely emotional terms because there would be no physical contact, nor in purely physical terms because what's the point if you cannot FEEL anything from it? So I think what motivates people to have sex is always some combination of what we might call love and lust, whether they are aware or not of this combination (love/lust) or what particular ratio of the combination of the two drives them. So of course it's an individual combination for everybody.

You can have a kink, which I see as a more specific kind of sex ACT or ACTION, whether your motivations are more love leaning OR lust leaning.

So to answer your question...

"If a person presents their sexual pleasure from kink as their sexuality, are they correct and in touch with a darker aspect of themselves?

You wouldn't be able to tell from their simply "presenting" their kink. Only the person doing the presenting would know that.


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[pole_smoker]

They can and do define sexuality for a lot of people including bisexuals, gay men, lesbians, trans people, and even heterosexuals.

I know a lot of people who discovered or learned that they are into kink, actual fetishes, and/or BDSM long before they discovered their sexual orientation or realized what their sexual orientation is.

http://segurosdesaluddlp.com/uploads/posts/2015-04/thumbs/19632-gay-porn-enema.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/1a5e1e63180e5f62bf935cb9a67be771/tumblr_mtt0ckIERv1s6blrxo1_500.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ls62xhT7sx1qma27jo1_1280.jpg

[charles-smythe]

Well, if the foundation of the conversation is "sex", we can break down the motivations for desiring sex to be either lead by the desiring of emotional connection (we might call this love) or lead by the desiring of physical contact (we might call this lust). You cannot have "sex" (as a human anyways) in purely emotional terms because there would be no physical contact, nor in purely physical terms because what's the point if you cannot FEEL anything from it? So I think what motivates people to have sex is always some combination of what we might call love and lust, whether they are aware or not of this combination (love/lust) or what particular ratio of the combination of the two drives them. So of course it's an individual combination for everybody.

You can have a kink, which I see as a more specific kind of sex ACT or ACTION, whether your motivations are more love leaning OR lust leaning.

So to answer your question...

"If a person presents their sexual pleasure from kink as their sexuality, are they correct and in touch with a darker aspect of themselves?

You wouldn't be able to tell from their simply "presenting" their kink. Only the person doing the presenting would know that.


------ …as usual your post is interesting…

[charles-smythe]

I know a lot of people who discovered or learned that they are into kink, actual fetishes, and/or BDSM long before they discovered their sexual orientation or realized what their sexual orientation is. …makes sense…

[tenni]

"If a person presents their sexual pleasure from kink as their sexuality, are they correct and in touch with a darker aspect of themselves?"

You wouldn't be able to tell from their simply "presenting" their kink. Only the person doing the presenting would know that.


This could be better worded. If a person’s sexual pleasure that come from a kink is self labelled what bisexuality is because they identify with bisexuality and kink together. The person is presenting their kink as what bisexuality is. Is it plausible that because they have a kink (ie pissing on both men and women) that this is a darker side of bisexuality or is it a kink alone?

[tenni]

"Is there such thing as bisexual lust and a bisexual kink, and are they two different things?"

For me, bisexuals may lust for both genders while monosexuals do not experience this form of lust. Whether it should be labelled as bisexual lust I don't know. If it is then it may help clarify bisexuality and explain that is why a bisexual may want both genders. Having your lust fullfilled by one gender may not mean that lust for the other gender is satiated?

I am inclined to think that lust is different from kink though.

Monosexuals may state that bisexuals are kinky for desiring both genders.(unusual taste in sexual behaviour) for themselves but is it appropriate for bisexuals to accept that they are unusual sexual tastes?

Bisexuality as a kink would mean that our attraction(sexual and or /emotional) is unusual behaviour. (suggesting that it is not natural or acceptable behaviour) This doesn't seem to be a positive approach to bisexuality any more than labelling homosexuality as a kink that is unuusal behaviour. Society seems to be trying to move away from labelling sexuality and gender differences (trans) as a kink. Why would bisexuals welcome in to their fold kinks as part of how they define themselves?

[pole_smoker]

This is someone who defined both bisexuality, and kink.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/mmothra/rbt_mapplethorpe_whip.jpg

[Browne]

"If a person presents their sexual pleasure from kink as their sexuality, are they correct and in touch with a darker aspect of themselves?"

You wouldn't be able to tell from their simply "presenting" their kink. Only the person doing the presenting would know that.


This could be better worded. If a person’s sexual pleasure that come from a kink is self labelled what bisexuality is because they identify with bisexuality and kink together. The person is presenting their kink as what bisexuality is. Is it plausible that because they have a kink (ie pissing on both men and women) that this is a darker side of bisexuality or is it a kink alone?


There is duality in everything and just about anything you can think of has its opposite. So that's how I sorta formed my first answer in seeing love and lust as two sides of the same coin so to speak. So I see the dualistic pattern in things and I'll make associations with them. As in, material/physical/dark is opposed by non-material/emotional/light. So when I say "dark" I'm not meaning it in a judgemental way but in a way that shows that people have BOTH of these aspects within them, they just manifest through us differently from person to person depending on what our likes or interest are or what it is that gets us off.

A specific kink COULD define someone's sexuality or sexual orientation, delending on what that specific kink is. But I separate sexuality or sexual orientation or bisexuality from "being in touch" (awareness) or accepting of a person "darker aspects". I think the latter is something that people of all sexual orientations struggle with in our society. And never mind how it can be different from person to person but I think of my own emotional changes in how I VALUE myself and how they can change from day to day, and situation from situation. Shame can come from society and THAT'S usually the phony type of shame because I see "society" as something that is sick or lost in the way it minimalizes and values people. But shame can also come from within, say if you legitimately hurt someone's feelings or put your feelings or desires over someone else's feelings causing harm to them. That type of shame comes from the heart I think.


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[charles-smythe]

There is duality in everything and just about anything you can think of has its opposite. So that's how I sorta formed my first answer in seeing love and lust as two sides of the same coin so to speak. So I see the dualistic pattern in things and I'll make associations with them. As in, material/physical/dark is opposed by non-material/emotional/light. So when I say "dark" I'm not meaning it in a judgemental way but in a way that shows that people have BOTH of these aspects within them, they just manifest through us differently from person to person depending on what our likes or interest are or what it is that gets us off.

A specific kink COULD define someone's sexuality or sexual orientation, delending on what that specific kink is. But I separate sexuality or sexual orientation or bisexuality from "being in touch" (awareness) or accepting of a person "darker aspects". I think the latter is something that people of all sexual orientations struggle with in our society. And never mind how it can be different from person to person but I think of my own emotional changes in how I VALUE myself and how they can change from day to day, and situation from situation. Shame can come from society and THAT'S usually the phony type of shame because I see "society" as something that is sick or lost in the way it minimalizes and values people. But shame can also come from within, say if you legitimately hurt someone's feelings or put your feelings or desires over someone else's feelings causing harm to them. That type of shame comes from the heart I think.


------ …damn…its nice having someone who thinks on here…instead of tenni’s sheep who just parrot what he says…keep up the good work…

[pole_smoker]

"If a person presents their sexual pleasure from kink as their sexuality, are they correct and in touch with a darker aspect of themselves?

You wouldn't be able to tell from their simply "presenting" their kink. Only the person doing the presenting would know that.


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Exactly. Most people I know who are into kinks don't walk around with a face tattoo or tshirt saying they're into them.

My husband and I did experiment with piss but in a mild way-I posted about it before on here if anyone's really interested in reading about it, and aside from our other friends who are into kink/BDSM and people on this site nobody knows about it since we don't bring it up in conversation or tell most people about it. I also tried bondage once when I was dating women and men and it wasn't my thing but again I don't really tell this to most people. My husband explored a kink/fetish he had once while single and his is very mild and it's something a lot of gay and bisexual men have.

My husband and I are not ashamed of any of this but it's not something we talk about. But if people were to visit our home they would see books about kink that we have, and this includes relatives and nobody cares. If they have questions the are free to ask us in person and we usually answer them.

FYI, kinks/BDSM, etc. are not a "dark" part of sexuality at all even if people who are uneducated about such things, and outside observers assume they are.

[cuttin2dachase]

Kinks and kinkiness are in the eye of the beholder. What I think of as fun and exciting in my bi sex life would be seen as kinky by less adventurous or vanilla people of all sexual orientations. Ultra straight people often see any non-vanilla, non heterosexual sexual activity as kinky and some would even deem it perverted. How one sees kink is all relative to how open, adventurous and daring one is and how far one will go to push the sexual envelope and try or do things most people wouldn't try or do. Some people automatically associate darkness with kink and kinkiness. To me it's enlightening to try new and different things with different people. Sexually speaking, to me the dark side is crossed into when someone rapes, or inflicts physical damage or tortures or kills another person in order to obtain a sexual thrill. BDSM is thought of as a dark side of sexuality, but if it's between consenting adults who enjoy their roles, it's not dark at all.

[Browne]

…damn…its nice having someone who thinks on here…instead of tenni’s sheep who just parrot what he says…keep up the good work…


My own definition of "good work" is to answer the man's question without making it personal. I bet you're capable of doing "good work" on here too, Chaz.


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[Browne]

Exactly. Most people I know who are into kinks don't walk around with a face tattoo or tshirt saying they're into them.


Well the OP laid out the scenario theoretically and that's exactly what I responded to. The scenario that was laid out.


FYI, kinks/BDSM, etc. are not a "dark" part of sexuality at all even if people who are uneducated about such things, and outside observers assume they are.

Well just to clarify since a quote of mine is in the OP, when I say "dark" I associate that to flesh or material or matter. We all have "dark".

"Light" is the non-material parts of our bodies, energy.

We think of sex as the joining of material body parts but there are non-material parts of your body that are "joining" as well...


Magnetocardiography (MCG) is a technique to measure the magnetic fields (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field) produced by electrical activity in the heart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart) using extremely sensitive devices such as the superconducting quantum interference device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_quantum_interference_device) (SQUID). If the magnetic field is measured using a multichannel device, a map of the magnetic field is obtained over the chest; from such a map, using mathematical algorithms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithm) that take into account the conductivity structure of the torso (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torso), it is possible to locate the source of the activity. For example, sources of abnormal rhythms or arrhythmia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhythmia), may be located using MCG.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetocardiography

Do you ever wonder what's really going on when your magnetic field is joined with your partner's magnetic field during sex Pole?

Do you even think about it at all?

Anyways, that's what I mean by "light/dark".


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[tenni]

"A specific kink COULD define someone's sexuality or sexual orientation, depending on what that specific kink is."

Expand on this please. (to clarify and make it an even playing field, I have the following definitions)

If we define bisexuality as a sexual and /or emotional attraction to both genders and a kink is defined as an unusual taste in sexual behaviour for a common ground of discussion. Which kinks would you state are specifically associated with bisexuality but not homosexuality or heterosexuality?

Or do you mean that homosexuality or heterosexuality have kinks that bisexuality does not? (I can see this as far as sexual attraction though ie homosexuals are not sexually attracted to vaginas but what kink might be connected to that?)

[charles-smythe]

My own definition of "good work" is to answer the man's question without making it personal. I bet you're capable of doing "good work" on here too, Chaz.


------ …when I first came on site I tried to be nice…then I committed the unpardonable sin of agreeing with pole about something…tenni & his minion attacked me like a school of pirhana…& as you can tell I struck back…

[Melody Dean]

Kinks and kinkiness are in the eye of the beholder. What I think of as fun and exciting in my bi sex life would be seen as kinky by less adventurous or vanilla people of all sexual orientations. Ultra straight people often see any non-vanilla, non heterosexual sexual activity as kinky and some would even deem it perverted. How one sees kink is all relative to how open, adventurous and daring one is and how far one will go to push the sexual envelope and try or do things most people wouldn't try or do. Some people automatically associate darkness with kink and kinkiness. To me it's enlightening to try new and different things with different people. Sexually speaking, to me the dark side is crossed into when someone rapes, or inflicts physical damage or tortures or kills another person in order to obtain a sexual thrill. BDSM is thought of as a dark side of sexuality, but if it's between consenting adults who enjoy their roles, it's not dark at all.

Good point. My FWB considers himself vanilla because he doesn't enjoy many of the physical acts of BDSM. But I think he's far from vanilla, starting with the simple fact that he's bisexual. Which brings it back to the original question, is bisexuality a kink? Okay, maybe not, it depends on the type of sex being had more than who that sex is with.

[pole_smoker]

Good point. My FWB considers himself vanilla because he doesn't enjoy many of the physical acts of BDSM. But I think he's far from vanilla, starting with the simple fact that he's bisexual. Which brings it back to the original question, is bisexuality a kink? Okay, maybe not, it depends on the type of sex being had more than who that sex is with.

If your fuck buddy says he's vanilla, and does not like bdsm then he is vanilla. A lot of bisexual people and people of all sexual orientations are just into vanilla sex.

[charles-smythe]

Good point. My FWB considers himself vanilla because he doesn't enjoy many of the physical acts of BDSM. But I think he's far from vanilla, starting with the simple fact that he's bisexual. Which brings it back to the original question, is bisexuality a kink? Okay, maybe not, it depends on the type of sex being had more than who that sex is with. …I tend to agree…bisexuality isn’t a kink…

[cuttin2dachase]

Good point. My FWB considers himself vanilla because he doesn't enjoy many of the physical acts of BDSM. But I think he's far from vanilla, starting with the simple fact that he's bisexual. Which brings it back to the original question, is bisexuality a kink? Okay, maybe not, it depends on the type of sex being had more than who that sex is with.

As someone who was heterosexual up until age 32, my reference point as "the beholder" is that bi sex is kinky because sex with men was something I'd never thought about prior to that age. It felt kinky and exciting to me the first time I had oral sex with a man. It still feels kinky to me when I am playing with other men because of my previous heterosexual sex life. If the beholder is a straight person, I think that they are highly likely to consider bi sex as kinky or even perverted. If the beholder is a bi person who has been bi their whole life, then they would consider bi sex as normal and not a kink. Therefore, I don't consider bisexuality as a whole or as a sexual orientation to be kinky in and of itself. 1st wife and I were swingers and we considered swinging to be kinky. 4somes with bi couples and 3somes with men is what led to my trying oral sex with men. We dabbled in D/S and it was kinky. We tried a lot of other sexual variations that were kinky to us. I've engaged in D/S play with both genders, golden showers with both genders and mixed or same sex group sex. Those activities are kinky to me regardless of which gender I am engaging with in doing them. They are also kinky regardless of whether I or my partner or partners are heterosexual, bisexual or gay.

[tenni]

Cutin

" In the eyes of the beholder."
Yes, in some respects an individual may interpret any sexual activity that they personally do not do as kinky. Moving to a broader society level, do bisexuals want the concept of being attracted physically and or emotionally to both genders as kink? In other words bisexuality is to be perceived as an unusual taste in sexual behaviour. Homosexuality is also to be seen as a kink. Only heterosexual behaviour is not kink?

I don’t think that is what has been promoted in the name of equality.

“I've engaged in D/S play with both genders, golden showers with both genders and mixed or same sex group sex. Those activities are kinky to me regardless of which gender I am engaging with in doing them. They are also kinky regardless of whether I or my partner or partners are heterosexual, bisexual or gay.”

I agree. A sexuality is not a kink. Kink is outside of defining sexualities and may happen across sexualities. Kink is not inclusive to all sexualities. Some are into specific kinks and some in a sexuality are not. One should not assume that all of any sexuality sees themselves as interested in specific kinks. Tread gently. I would say without shame but not imposing your kink on others in polite group conversations..lol

[Melody Dean]

If your fuck buddy says he's vanilla, and does not like bdsm then he is vanilla. A lot of bisexual people and people of all sexual orientations are just into vanilla sex.

Ah, but it depends on what you group into BDSM. The S&M part of it, no. But, when it comes to the mental aspects of sex, the trading of control, being dominate and being dominated, he is certainly not vanilla.

[Browne]

"A specific kink COULD define someone's sexuality or sexual orientation, depending on what that specific kink is."

Expand on this please. (to clarify and make it an even playing field, I have the following definitions)

If we define bisexuality as a sexual and /or emotional attraction to both genders and a kink is defined as an unusual taste in sexual behaviour for a common ground of discussion. Which kinks would you state are specifically associated with bisexuality but not homosexuality or heterosexuality?

Cuckolds come to mind. Where you have a dominant male, a dominant female and a submissive male.



"
Or do you mean that homosexuality or heterosexuality have kinks that bisexuality does not? (I can see this as far as sexual attraction though ie homosexuals are not sexually attracted to vaginas but what kink might be connected to that?)

I imagine that most kinks that are exclusive to homosexual and heterosexual relationships could be worked into any bisexual relationship.


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[tenni]

Cuckolds come to mind. Where you have a dominant male, a dominant female and a submissive male. ------
Yes, I see this as a possibiity of a kink which may be specifically associated with bisexuality but not homosexuality or heterosexuality.

I recall a guy telling me that he had been involved with a mmf between heterosexuals. This eventually made him begin to wonder what it would be like to touch a cock. In the mmf neither guy interacted with each other. They both focused on the female and no m2m touch. There seemed to be no domination either. I wonder if the two dom males and a sub female would be seen as bisexual or heterosexual? many fuzzy lines...lol

Hardcell wrote: I imagine that most kinks that are exclusive to homosexual and heterosexual relationships could be worked into any bisexual relationship.

Hardcell
Maybe you could expand on this? What exclusive kinks are heterosexual?

I'm not sure but would a glory hole be seen as exclusively homosexual? If a biguy was involved and from what I read there are biguys who enjoy this, does it make it homosexual ? It would seem that threesome concept of a m & f on one side of a glory hole and the gay guy doesn't know that a woman is licking..lol? I think that some gay guys would not be happy while others might be open to glory hole with mf on the other side..until she puts her pussy at the glory hole..lol

[charles-smythe]

Cuckolds come to mind. Where you have a dominant male, a dominant female and a submissive male.
…good one…I didn’t think of that…being cuckolds almost requires you be bi….

[Browne]

Maybe you could expand on this? What exclusive kinks are heterosexual?


The only thing I can think of that would be exclusive to heterosexuals are specific types of roll playing where the rolls are gender specific.

Frottage is another act that is exlsuive to guy on guy sex, although you certainly don't need to be exlusively homosexual to enjoy it.


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[pole_smoker]

Cuckolds come to mind. Where you have a dominant male, a dominant female and a submissive male.




I imagine that most kinks that are exclusive to homosexual and heterosexual relationships could be worked into any bisexual relationship.


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I don't view someone being a "cuckold" or the fantasy of "forced bi" as being a kink at all since it's more about someone being closeted or pretending to be closeted, and having gay or bisexual sex with a man and/or woman, or both sexes together.