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glantern954
Jul 3, 2006, 7:09 PM
Some intersting stuff here. About one third of the way through this
article a woman mentions being told by her marriage counselor that
99% of bisexual men are really gay. She is quoted as not subscribing
to that theory.


Title: Could you be bisexual?
Date: Sunday, July 02, 2006
Author Meena Lyer
Source: The Times of India Online
Link: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-
1696456,curpg-3.cms



A few years ago, Angelina Jolie famously said she enjoyed spending
time with her female lovers. Though no such high-profile entity has
advocated the cause of bisexuality in India, it is a phenomenon that
is being talked about, overtly and covertly.

Being bisexual is no longer the exclusive domain of 'an' actor
or 'a' director. It could be your neighbour, your best pal's
girlfriend, or your favourite youth icon.

It doesn't seem to need the kind of 'coming-out' process that is so
integral to gays and lesbians, or even the support structure of
activists. It seems you can be a bed-hopping urban bisexual for whom
a heterosexual relationship is not just a security blanket.

"Over the years, there has been a distinct change in how bisexuality
is perceived. There is more conversation about it today, and it is
part of an identity that goes with being cool and fashionable," says
Vinay Chandran, executive director of Swabhava Trust, an NGO that
looks after the interests of lesbian, gay, bisexual and
transgendered people, also called LGBT.

But can bisexuality truly be a natural human behaviour? Though the
textbook definition of bisexuality as attraction to both men and
women is clear enough, there are studies that propose it as a
defence against homosexuality.

In the First World, men see bisexuality as a stepping stone before
they eventually and inevitably jump full on into gayness. 'Bi now,
gay later', they call it.

In India, a sub-conscious need to emulate the herd leads to gays
experimenting with marriage, and therefore bisexuality. More
importantly, it helps them stay on the right side of the law with
Section 377 of the IPC criminalising same-sex relationships.

Religious ideas linked to procreation and the need to find an issue
to perform the last rites also lead many men into tying the knot,
when they would rather be with other men.

Forty-year-old Lisa, who discovered her husband with another man
five years into her marriage, was told by her counsellor that 99% of
men are homosexual and they only marry to have children. "I don't
necessarily subscribe to that theory," she says sighing. "But it
helps me stay in my marriage."

In India, the chances of a person being confused about his or her
sexuality are particularly high. One is expected to be normal, which
is a description of heterosexuality.


But interestingly, here the concept of friendship between same-sex
people is much deeper than elsewhere. It is common to spend more
time with people of the same gender in boarding schools and family
functions.

Inevitably, experts say, some people grow fonder of members of the
same sex. They end up performing the rites of heterosexuality but
long for a different company. This is how bisexuality resides in
India, in a socially accepted disguise.

There are a fair amount of people who regard bisexuals as genuine
enough to enjoy both the genders. Homosexuals describe such
bisexuals as greedy and fickle, selfish people who just can't seem
to make a commitment.

Gay men also don't tend to get involved with bisexual men because
they think these men are not serious about their
sexuality. "Bisexuals are seen as people who can balance it out, or
enjoy the best of both worlds," says a 35-year-old gay man who was
once married to a woman.

"But I could not manage it." Counsellors say that homosexuals who
marry — either due to societal pressure or because they think they
can get away with it — invariably cannot keep the garb on for long.

They find the touch of the opposite sex uncomfortable and soon
suffer from depression. Those who remain are probably genuine
bisexuals. They are rarer than one thinks. Time and again
the 'bisexuals' one encounters are the ones suffering the camouflage
of marriage.

Like one of Bollywood's leading film-makers. His personal favourite
flick is Ang Lee's Oscar-nominated Brokeback Mountain because the
Heath Legder-Jake Gyllenhaal story has many similarities to his own
life.

Though he is "happily" married and has a son from his stunning wife,
he lets it be known that his heart beats for another man. He admits
that though he has worked with some of Bollywood's most attractive
actresses, he was never attracted to them.

Almost 25 years ago, he realised that he was more attracted to the
leading men in the movies than he was to the ladies. And he has been
in a relationship with a male for over a decade while sustaining the
farce of his conventional marriage.

"I come from a conservative Hindu home. My parents would've been
shocked if they knew of my sexual preference. And I have no
intentions of hurting them." He also feels that "a wife, and an
attractive one at that, is an enviable prop". His wife is unaware of
his preferences.



It is perilous to generalise about any group because human behaviour
is complex. For instance, not all heterosexuals have the same
concept of man and woman.

A heterosexual serial rapist and a similar but more law-abiding man
who is devoted to his wife will not have the same concept
of 'woman'.

Similarly, people who share a sexual orientation do not necessarily
have identical views or practices with respect to gender,
relationships, monogamy or any other topic.

"One has to separate attraction from behaviour. Just as a
heterosexual woman may find herself attracted to many men but choose
to make her life with only one, a bisexual person may be attracted
to many people but choose to make his or her life with one person,"
says Dr L Ramakrishnan, country director (programs and research) of
Solidarity and Action Against HIV Infection in India.

This means that in many cases, the attraction to same-sex members
may be nothing more than fleeting moments in the life of a regular
person who probably would never physically stray outside
heterosexuality.

While discourse about bisexuality may be surfacing in recent times,
it's as old as human civilisation. It pre-dates evolution of humans.

Several species of animals, most noticeably bonobos and other apes
with whom we share significant parts of our evolution, exhibit
sexual activity with both sexes.

In India, sexual activity with members of both sexes is discussed in
texts such as Kamasutra, and depicted in art and sculpture such as
Rajasthani paintings and Khajuraho sculptures.

'Same sex love in India', authored by Saleem Kidwai and Ruth Vanita
delves into instances in ancient, medieval, modern, and post-modern
Indian texts, and Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, Islamic, and Christian
literature.

The Hindu god Harihara or Ayyappa was apparently the son of Vishnu
and Shiva, the former in drag and the latter pursuing her "as a
lordly elephant would a she-elephant".

Skandha, literally meaning a jet of sperm, was born after the fire
god Agni swallowed Shiva's semen. In the Mahabharata, Arjuna,
aroused by Krishna's beautiful waist and red lips had sex with him
as 'Arjuni'.

JrzGuy3
Jul 3, 2006, 8:59 PM
It doesn't seem to need the kind of 'coming-out' process that is so
integral to gays and lesbians, or even the support structure of
activists. It seems you can be a bed-hopping urban bisexual for whom
a heterosexual relationship is not just a security blanket.

Bull.


it is part of an identity that goes with being cool and fashionable

Yay! So bisexuality is to my generation what bell bottoms were to my parents'.

I can't tell you how happy this makes me.


But can bisexuality truly be a natural human behaviour? Though the textbook definition of bisexuality as attraction to both men and women is clear enough, there are studies that propose it as a defence against homosexuality.

Why am I still reading this?


Inevitably, experts say, some people grow fonder of members of the same sex. They end up performing the rites of heterosexuality but long for a different company. [. . .] They find the touch of the opposite sex uncomfortable and soon suffer from depression. Those who remain are probably genuine bisexuals. They are rarer than one thinks. Time and again the 'bisexuals' one encounters are the ones suffering the camouflage of marriage.

Well if it's in the press, it must be true. Better call up Jen and give her the bad news.

Just kidding. You know I love you!


This means that in many cases, the attraction to same-sex members may be nothing more than fleeting moments in the life of a regular person who probably would never physically stray outside heterosexuality.

Screw this. I'm gonna go pull out some teeth with a wrench while scraping my nails against a blackboard.

jimbeau60
Jul 3, 2006, 10:00 PM
MY SWEET LORD ! (KRISHNA)

glantern954
Jul 3, 2006, 10:08 PM
LOL! I had the same reaction. Maybe I should have put a disclaimer on the original post.

ScifiBiJen
Jul 3, 2006, 11:59 PM
So. Much. Crap.

A highlight of the article was:


In the First World, men see bisexuality as a stepping stone before
they eventually and inevitably jump full on into gayness. 'Bi now,
gay later', they call it.

I've heard bisexuals (including JohnnyV and other on this website) wish unpleasant things on any speakers of that phrase. (Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but I've heard sentiment of outrage at least.)

Can you postmark a slap? How many stamps would that take?


:flag2: and proud

CherryBlossom74
Jul 4, 2006, 3:02 AM
Remarkable. And here we though eastern culture's were more enlightened than our own in matters of sexual identity.

Avocado
Jul 5, 2006, 7:51 AM
""One has to separate attraction from behaviour. Just as a
heterosexual woman may find herself attracted to many men but choose
to make her life with only one, a bisexual person may be attracted
to many people but choose to make his or her life with one person,"
says Dr L Ramakrishnan, country director (programs and research) of
Solidarity and Action Against HIV Infection in India.

This means that in many cases, the attraction to same-sex members
may be nothing more than fleeting moments in the life of a regular
person who probably would never physically stray outside
heterosexuality."

What a load a bollocks! So if you're with a white woman you'd never have strayed from that if you hadn't of happened to got together?!

Azrael
Jul 5, 2006, 11:59 AM
Being bisexual is no longer the exclusive domain of 'an' actor
or 'a' director. It could be your neighbour, your best pal's
girlfriend, or your favourite youth icon.
Umm, yeah....


It doesn't seem to need the kind of 'coming-out' process that is so
integral to gays and lesbians, or even the support structure of
activists. It seems you can be a bed-hopping urban bisexual for whom
a heterosexual relationship is not just a security blanket.
Unbelievable bullshit, but to be expected. I'm surprised non heterosexual behavior isn't government subsidised given the overpopulation problem there



"Over the years, there has been a distinct change in how bisexuality
is perceived. There is more conversation about it today, and it is
part of an identity that goes with being cool and fashionable,"
Yes, you got me. Its so much more fashionable to live in paralyzing silence under a familial gag rule. While it's true it may be more widely accepted, thats because of the tireless efforts of people who don't give a shit about being "cool"



But can bisexuality truly be a natural human behaviour? Though the
textbook definition of bisexuality as attraction to both men and
women is clear enough, there are studies that propose it as a
defence against homosexuality.

In the First World, men see bisexuality as a stepping stone before
they eventually and inevitably jump full on into gayness. 'Bi now,
gay later', they call it.
Like we haven't heard this one ad nauseum ad infinitum.



In India, a sub-conscious need to emulate the herd leads to gays
experimenting with marriage, and therefore bisexuality. More
importantly, it helps them stay on the right side of the law with
Section 377 of the IPC criminalising same-sex relationships.

Religious ideas linked to procreation and the need to find an issue
to perform the last rites also lead many men into tying the knot,
when they would rather be with other men.

Forty-year-old Lisa, who discovered her husband with another man
five years into her marriage, was told by her counsellor that 99% of
men are homosexual and they only marry to have children. "I don't
necessarily subscribe to that theory," she says sighing. "But it
helps me stay in my marriage."
Now this is an interesting look at what the States could be like if marriage definition laws and things of that ilk get passed. Not that I'm worried, this faerie wears steel toes. This makes me wonder about my Aunt's figurehead husband from Bangladesh.



There are a fair amount of people who regard bisexuals as genuine
enough to enjoy both the genders. Homosexuals describe such
bisexuals as greedy and fickle, selfish people who just can't seem
to make a commitment.

Gay men also don't tend to get involved with bisexual men because
they think these men are not serious about their
sexuality. "Bisexuals are seen as people who can balance it out, or
enjoy the best of both worlds," says a 35-year-old gay man who was
once married to a woman.
Yep, I've had many a potential bf tell me I'm just young and confused. Par for the course all across the globe it would seem.


It is perilous to generalise about any group because human behaviour
is complex. For instance, not all heterosexuals have the same
concept of man and woman.
Similarly, people who share a sexual orientation do not necessarily
have identical views or practices with respect to gender,
relationships, monogamy or any other topic.
Exactly.


This means that in many cases, the attraction to same-sex members
may be nothing more than fleeting moments in the life of a regular
person who probably would never physically stray outside
heterosexuality.
Not without some merit, though it strikes me as more wishful thinking. Below we find the true meat of this article:


In India, sexual activity with members of both sexes is discussed in
texts such as Kamasutra, and depicted in art and sculpture such as
Rajasthani paintings and Khajuraho sculptures.

'Same sex love in India', authored by Saleem Kidwai and Ruth Vanita
delves into instances in ancient, medieval, modern, and post-modern
Indian texts, and Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, Islamic, and Christian
literature.

The Hindu god Harihara or Ayyappa was apparently the son of Vishnu
and Shiva, the former in drag and the latter pursuing her "as a
lordly elephant would a she-elephant".

Skandha, literally meaning a jet of sperm, was born after the fire
god Agni swallowed Shiva's semen. In the Mahabharata, Arjuna,
aroused by Krishna's beautiful waist and red lips had sex with him
as 'Arjuni'.
Essentially we find a beautiful society that has been hijacked by the male theocracy. Vishnu in drag sounds delightful, but where was I going with that? Oh yes, another case of the institutional religious body holding the citizenry in thrall despite the incredibly voluminous amount of counter data. Or something.