what do you get from your other partners, a few questions please :}}

[cherry88]

hi guys cherry here with the open relationship stuff. may remmeber im starting therapy soon with my bf who wants an open relationship, details yet to be negotiated.

so we are starting therapy next week.

we have been getting along a lot better recently although we still have a lot of issues to work out. i really honestly dont know what will happen a lot depends for me on what exactly he wants and why he wants it. he has said repeatedly he only wants to do other stuff occasionally, that he isn't seeking it out, that he doesnt really care about it all that much day to day, he just wants to be -able- to do it, relatively infrequently, if something comes up. if thas really what it is i honestly was always ok with that.. we still havent determined if that -is- all it is. im still really turned on thinking he might be with other guys, and do it with me, i wish that was what he wanted, as that has always turned me on. // we will see.

he still feels it shouldnt change or impact on our relationsihp at all and shouldnt even be noticeable to me. he feels it shouldnt take anything away from us but he hasnt explained how this is. he says it has nothign to do with being unhappy with me or unhapy in the relationship and this is -very- hard for me to grasp.


its still really hard for us to talk about very well so i have a lot of unanswered questions. hes very keen for therapy but he -really- doesnt like talking about it otherwise, even answering my questions, no matter how non threatening i try to make it, im not sure why, i feel inside that he feels guilty still aboiut doing a pretty douchy things and going behind my back. i still think that was a douchy thing to do and i think he also feels like that so i think thats why hed rather just get past it and gloss over it and why he feels uncomfortable. for me though i have a LOT of questions so its hard for me to not have them answered. hopefully we can get to all that in the safe environment of therapy.

in the meantime though i have some direct quuestions maybe you guys could give me some insight on, and here they are!


1) what do you get from your other partners? why do you want it with someone not your regular partner? is it the thrill of something new? the mystery of being with someone you dont know well or who doesnt know you? the varety like having different flavors of ice cream? what is it that you get form these other peopel that your regular partner doesnt give you? why doesnt it take away form your main relationship? what does it add?

2) how does it impact your feelings toward your regular partner? does it make you respect them less? does it make you appreciate them more? does it have nothig to do with them? how does it change/impact your feelings toward your 'main squeeze' as my boyfriend terms it? does it take away? does it add? has it made your relationship closer?

3) why do you want other peopel in some relationships and not others? what is it about relationships where you do -not- want or need others? what is it about relationships where you do? what is the difference?

4) why doesnt it mean you are unhappy in the relationship? this is really hard for me to get. how can you want to be with others if you are happy and satisfied in a relationship? that makes very little sense to me. i can undertsand recreational sex but even so, its just pretty alien to my own way of thinking. if im into someone i am very deeply into that person. thats just how my mind works i like super commited relationships. i really have no desire or need for anything else and never have. i get turned on by others and accept that as normal, and totally normal for the person im with, and im totaly on board with the idea of recreational sex, but for me the fantasy is totaly enough. why is it not enough for some?




ok so those are some questions im really really interseted in the various answers.

he has been very loving and close as always so emotoinally, i can grasp emotionally from how he is acting, that such things dont need to take away and can add. and that it can be something good for us and not take away. its made us closer for me to feel im getting to understand this part of him and its good for him to feel i respect it. its been certainly great for our sex life so far.

its just hard to get him to be verbal about that stuf so theres a lot of answers i am still looking for on intellectual levels.

hope you guys can give me the straight scoop. i really am tryign to understand this and it gest easier all the time, although im stil lnot sure its somethign i realy want, like i said a lot depends on what he wants and why he wants it. ok thanks very much! also any good reading mateerial anyone can recommend is awesome. i saw the book 'opening up' or whatever might try to find that. thanks all. youve been so helpful so far. ive also learned a lot of awesome sex techniques reading this site that have been very nice put into practice so thanks for that too! hope you can give me the low down so i can understand this a bit more from an intellectual perspective.

love, cherry.

[okie5558]

Openess about ,You don.t have to hold your feeling in. If your at a party and want to test other waters then if doesn't bother you to the extent that you have a fight after words ,and it works both ways with each other.

[badbear]

OK Cherry i will do my best to help you with #1. It may help with the other ?'s. first thing first though. please keep in mind, opinions are like holes, everybody has some. none of them are eather wrong or rite.
So with that i say for me. Can you separate sex and the pleaser of giving and receiving of said action (sex) from LOVE? I believe this is easy for bisexuals. or at least I do. The giving and receiving pleasers of sex are equal to me. and like to share that with others. when you make others feel good and make a bit of happy for them. do you not what to do that for others to. would this not make you feel good about yourself. i'll bet your BF is a good lover (a craping word for that). give that some thought. i hope my HOLE (lol) will help.
best wishes Badbear

[ErosUrge]

Hi Cherry. I think it's wonderful that you are taking the time to really think about these things and even better that you're trying to be open and understanding about it all too. I know this is difficult as I was once involved with a bi woman who wanted the same....but her/my story was considerably different than yours.

First before giving my thoughts to your questions, I think it's very important and see that you see the importance of how much he feels towards you. I will elaborate more on this as I reply to your questions. As I reply to them, please remember that everyone has opinions/thoughts/feelings about such matters. Hopefully you'll find something in the replies from different people to make you feel more at ease.

1) what do you get from your other partners?

If I were involved in a relationship with someone as you both are and I was in his shoes, my answer would be nothing more than a sexual release. Being bi all my life, I can't explain why I have the need to have sex with men outside the relationship with my significant other. Even when I am very much in love with a woman, if I were to deny myself the pleasure of male sex, I would be in turmoil if I couldn't. I understand that the nature of monogamy is that we remain devoted sexually, emotionally, and in every way to one person. Some people are very capable of this and I honor and respect that. But some have a conflict with this (such as myself). It's not that we love our significant other any less. There are some people that absolutely will not accept this and the comments are always the same...such as...."If you really love someone you would never engage in sex with anyone else." If this was originally the agreement, I can understand how this would cause difficulty. The fact that he has been honest with you is to his credit and to yours as well and I think you realize this.

2) how does it impact your feelings towards your regular partner?

This is different for everyone. But my thoughts and feelings are that if I really love someone, it changes nothing as to how I feel about her. My excursions with males has nothing to do with having less feelings for the woman I love. I would in fact feel so much more secure with and loving towards that woman because I would realize that she understood this was not a threat in any way. It's a difficult concept to grasp because sex between you and the person you love has so much meaning in the time it is going on. The sex that happens with a male for me away from my beloved is not the same...for me, it's only sex but for me, necessary. And though it's only sex, that doesn't mean it's not enjoyable or meaningless. But it's not meaningful in the same way as the sex I have with the person I love. It's simply a need. I know there are men who do get emotionally interested in the men they are sexual with. But if I understand you correctly, this is not the case with him.

3) why do you want other people in some relationships and not others?

I'm not sure about your exact meaning with this question but I'll give an answer as I understand it. For those men I am sexual with when I'm involved with someone, there is nothing more to it than a mutual understanding that we share that moment and only that moment. Of the male friends I am sexual with, our relationships have to do with that mutual need. We're not interested in the more meaningful aspects of each others lives. We're friendly and discuss some things prior to our sexual activity or after. But we're not interested in getting together socially or involved in each other's personal lives. I do know of some men who are good friends and are more social, but even with them sex is the main reason they interact with each other. I know of several men who are married and the wives are fully aware. Their wives know that their relationship is what's most important and know through and through that their husbands are not interested in anything else. These men give everything else to their wives; sexually, emotionally, and all the rest....but on ocassion, they have the need for a male sexually and it's nothing more than that. I know of 4 different couples who have been together 20 plus years with this kind of arrangement. In 3 of these, the women are bi and also do the same with women they know. In the other, the wife is straight but she allows it as long as she gets to be a part of it with him.

4) why it doesn't mean you are unhappy in the relationship?

This might be the most complicated question of the four, but I surely can relate. Going back to the girlfriend I once had who was bi, my biggest concern was that she would lose interest in me and go off to be with a woman she was sexual with. There was one particular woman who she would get together with from time to time and they also had a more involved relationship. They were more than just 'friendly'. This made me feel very insecure. And I thought, "why can't she just be more casual?" This was of course based on my own way of seeing things and how I was/am with men. Oddly enough, the entire time she and I were together, I never once had sex with a male. Had we stayed together longer, it would eventually have happened. She was certainly not opposed to me being with men. But she wanted to help me choose what male I would have sex with. And not because she wanted to be a part of it, but because she felt she needed to know who with. This didn't set well with me. And besides, I was still struggling with my own bi identity and accepting it within myself. We parted for other more complicated reasons.

To go the the first part of your last question, you asked, "how can you want to be with others if you are happy and satisfied in a relationship? that makes very little sense to me." I understand again how you feel and this is what confused me about myself when I was struggling with being bi. When I was married to my second wife, I kept asking myself that very question. I hated myself because I just couldn't understand how I could possibly want sex with a male when I loved everything about my wife; everything. Since sex is what the bulk of this matter is about, I can tell you that sex with her was incredible....I loved it. I never lost interest in sex with her. But my appetite for male sex would never go away. It's difficult to grasp when you yourself are not bi or have that need within yourself. Some would argue and do that it doesn't matter; once you're with someone, that's the end of the story. I agree with that when it's understood between both people and from the very beginning. But even then, sometimes things change. By that I mean there are some men (and women too) who become curious about same sex-sex. And then the curiosity turns to actuality and then they discover they enjoy it and continue. Some men keep it a secret for the rest of their lives and some decide to reveal it to their wives accepting whatever the consequences will be as they no longer want to continue hiding the fact. Sometimes it's accepted but of course more often than not, it isn't. I can understand this after many years of being with someone and this was never even a consideration as a possibility. At least you are working with this at the very beginning of your relationship.

You're trying your best to get your mind around this thing and for someone who is of the nature that being with that one person is everything and enough to keep you satisfied and has no need for anything else other than the fantasy of it, it has to be very tough. And it is very difficult to step away from that since this is who you are. I'm not trying to get you to change but I must say that because of how you feel about such things, there is understandably great confusion. The truth is that we all have our needs; whatever they might be. You have made it quite clear what yours are. You may very well not be able to break away from these feelings; and that's okay. You are who you are. If you find that you can't change how you feel there is no doubt it will be painful for you as you love this man very much. If you decide that you want to and give it a go, you might discover new horizons you never imagined. I certainly can't say. If he is the sort that loves one person completely like he does you but cannot do without the release of sex with men, I assure you he will also feel pain if you decide to go on without him. There's no way of knowing what is going to happen. Yet, there are all kinds of great possibilities should you continue together.

And to address this part of your last question: "i get turned on by others and accept that as normal, and totally normal for the person im with, and im totaly on board with the idea of recreational sex, but for me the fantasy is totaly enough. why is it not enough for some?"

I think the reason why it's hard to understand why it isn't enough for some is because of who you are once again. By saying that, I'm not saying that you're wrong; there is no right and wrong here. But you're trying to understand this through your feelings about these things. Again, for some it isn't enough. I did everything I knew to change myself to not want to be sexual with men at one time when I was married to my second wife. It caused me a great deal of stress and unhappiness. How could I want to have sex with any man when I was so in love with this woman? Sometimes I didn't feel any desire to be sexual with men and I would think that I had somehow gotten past it. But eventually the urges would start up. Where did they come from? I had no idea; they just did. And the more I tried to deny them, the more intense they became. The fact that it "isn't enough for some" doesn't mean the person you're with loves you any less...it has nothing to do with that in some cases. Yes, there are relationships where this is the case, but please be careful to not assume that is the case with you and yours. There might be others who read this and will be thinking, "if she was bi she would understand". And though that is more than likely true, it doesn't mean that a woman in your situation can't grasp or understand it. The fact that you are trying says a lot about the goodness of your character. CsraKate who is a member here is married to a bi man and straight and has a lot of wisdom to share on this matter. Hopefully she won't mind I referred you to her. I am pretty certain she wouldn't mind.



I hope the very best for you both and hope that you can both find a way to stay together.

[Annika L]

4) why it doesn't mean you are unhappy in the relationship?

...

To go the the first part of your last question, you asked, "how can you want to be with others if you are happy and satisfied in a relationship? that makes very little sense to me." I understand again how you feel and this is what confused me about myself when I was struggling with being bi. When I was married to my second wife, I kept asking myself that very question. I hated myself because I just couldn't understand how I could possibly want sex with a male when I loved everything about my wife; everything.

CsraKate who is a member here is married to a bi man and straight and has a lot of wisdom to share on this matter. Hopefully she won't mind I referred you to her. I am pretty certain she wouldn't mind.



Disclaimer: I am not in a poly relationship. But it's something we talk and think about.

I really like a lot of what ErosUrge says in this post. Two things I would add:

The first is a clarification to his point about how could he possibly want to be with a man when he loved everything about his wife:

I really like wine. But I also really like whisky. (I also really like beer, and a number of other things, but that's starting to get into the realm of another thread.) Let's say I find a wine I *really* love: the perfect wine! *drool* It's the best friggin wine I've ever tasted, and it absolutely satisfies everything I've ever wanted in a wine. OMG, I need never even browse the liquor store any more...I've found it...here it is, the ONLY wine I'll ever want in my entire life! If I drink this wine absolutely every night, day in, day out, I might get tired of it...but if I'm devoted to it, I can spread it out, and be perfectly happy only ever having this wine. But dammit...at some point, I'm gonna want to sip a nice glass of whisky. The thought of all the truly great whiskies I've ever had will grow in my mind and make it *really* hard to stay true to this wine I love so much...it won't make it hard to stick with that wine...but it'll make it hard not to stray and have a whisky some night. Now suppose this awesome wine is ok with me having a whisky once in a while...and I do. Why would I like that wine any less? Or how *could* it mean I'd like that wine less? No analogy is perfect...but I don't think this one is bad at all. Wine and whisky have completely different characters: so does sex with a man vs. sex with a woman. But if I'm truly devoted to my partner (who is female), I can't see how occasional sex with a man could make me love her less, have less respect for her, or make me want to be with her less.

The second thing I'd add is just for the record: ErosUrge, my most recent understanding is that csrakate has actually identified that she is indeed bisexual. This shouldn't change your recommendation at all...kate is a great person to talk to, and I agree that she probably wouldn't mind you referring cherry to her.

Best luck, cherry, with all your sorting through things and trying to work this stuff out. Let us know how it all goes for you.

[bisexualman1980]

Hi. I'm a bi-guy hoping to open up my relationship in a way that it sounds like what your boyfriend wants. My wife is still working through it and trying to decide if she can work with that idea. I know that I can answer some of your questions. Basically, I want a guy. No matter what my wife does, she will never be a man. She can get toys and screw me like one, but her anatomy just isn't what I want sometimes. Not having an outlet for that is frustrating for me. I love her, and I love what we do together. But something is missing that she just can't give me. That doesn't mean I love her any less. I love our relationship. I love what she brings to my life. I would feel a tremendous sense of loss if she decided to leave me over my bisexuality.

I know the poly lifestyle can be hard to understand for a mono person. You want to be all he needs and wants, which is what society has spent a lot of time convincing us to believe. It's romantic, but it's not exactly practical. Why do you think half of marriages end in divorce? Why is it so hard to admit that sometimes we need something outside of our primary relationships to keep us happy? Isn't that better than ending a relationship that we're pretty happy with a lot of the time? I tend to think so.

I also believe that love isn't quantifiable. Just because I find another person to love, doesn't mean that I use up my love quota on the new guy. I really believe that I can care about more than one person. I think a lot of people can, including your boyfriend. Just make sure he is sincere and that you are getting your needs met by him. Communicate and make rules together that you can both live with happily. I feel like I rambled a lot there, but I hope something was helpful. Good luck to you! I hope you can make it work out.

[Annika L]

It's romantic, but it's not exactly practical. Why do you think half of marriages end in divorce?

Hmmm...do you know of any studies that talk about the divorce rates among poly marriages? Or the length of an average poly relationship? Or any evidence whatsoever that poly relationships last longer or are more stable than monogamous ones?

If not, I would be very careful of trying to draw that sort of argument.

[bisexualman1980]

Hmmm...do you know of any studies that talk about the divorce rates among poly marriages? Or the length of an average poly relationship? Or any evidence whatsoever that poly relationships last longer or are more stable than monogamous ones?

If not, I would be very careful of trying to draw that sort of argument.

I understand your words of caution. I don't have any studies. I don't pretend to be an expert. I've just read several books where people have advocated that argument. It's up to you whether you buy it or not. I think the idea has merit, obviously.

[Annika L]

I understand your words of caution. I don't have any studies. I don't pretend to be an expert. I've just read several books where people have advocated that argument. It's up to you whether you buy it or not. I think the idea has merit, obviously.

Ok, if it's a "I heard this somewhere" argument, I'll play: the anecdotal evidence I've heard says that on average poly relationships don't last as long as monogamous ones (yes, even granted that most monogamous relationships fail), and the failure rate is higher. So although I agree that the idea sounds compelling, I really need evidence one way or the other before I'd be willing to make that argument...or try to build a life based on it.

[cherry88]

ok guys..... gonna try to update you all here. ok so.. this was really really really brillialnt and totally what i needed. really want to thank you for the kind and thoughtful responses i felt they really gave me a lot to think about and were very helpful in other ways too.... so, this was exactly what i wanted so thank you so much.

ok so im not sure where to start, first i feel really really bad because i wasnt totally clear about something and i feel really bad in case you would feel i was being deceptive or something really i just wasnt clear enough and im very sorry for that cause you were all so very nice. ok so, my bf has been with guys in the past.. he anticipates being with guys in the future.. (which has always turned me on) however what is asking for right now, is to be with women. 99% of your advice still held true anyhow, so it wasnt a big problem, i just didnt want any of you to feel i wasnt being honest or clear asking for help becuase you all were so incredibly giving with your advice. // so im apologizing for that very much but as i said the vast majority of what you said still applied so no biggie. however i do have some other questions, as the situation is a bit different now and has even changed again... so i will explain what happened ok! its a bit more complicated than i may have thought.

so this is what happened basically, he was over here the other night and we had another pretty stressful night of trying to talk about stuff. i think basically hes just realy sensitive about this, after hearing a bit of how you guys talk about that, i could imagine being 'non-monagamous' is something he has felt pretty negatively judged on, something really important to him but that he feeles misiunderstood about and judged on... and i think being already an abstract thinker who feels words are the worst way to communicate really important feelings.. its been hard for him to verbalize his thoughts a bit i think.

so i got up before he did and checked the messages here and was really astounded how much waht you said really resonated wiht me and was stuf i hadnt thought about. i especially was suprised at what badbear said. that was a viewpoint i totally didnt expect but however was the one that resonated most deeply with the both of us. so that was very very interesting.

so when he woke up we read the answers together. that helped us have like by far the most productive converstaion about this we have ever had. he was able to read the responses and point to stuff, and say 'that is relevant' or 'thats exactly how i feel' or 'that is very important' without feeling responsible for putting it in words himself.. and we could talk about what you guys said and that really really really helped us an extremely huge amount. we actually got to the point of working a tentative agreement due to what we learned about each other in that talk. cant tell you how much your answers helped us that way.

so i wont go into exactly the stuff we responded to cause it would just be too long, briefly though we both really responded to badbears advice, truth is my bf is a super human lover and im not kidding. its like his art form he is really like, super human im not kidding. and he has said many times he sees love first of all as what he can share. and what he can give. he likes to make women happy. he is very good at it. it makes him feel good aobut himself. he feels it was what he was put on this earth to do. he feels its actually his spiritual destiny to give what he has to give to those who cross his path in life. not just sex but love. thats how much of who he is, it is.

so that was very helpful for us to think about as i am an artist and think about art the same way. if someone tried to tell me not to do art i would laugh. thats like saying dont eat or breathe. i would laugh in their face. its what im here to give to the world. so on levels like that it is very easy for me to understand, why it would be rewarding for him, why its something he doesnt want to have to suppress, why the fantasy wouldnt be enough. in a fantasy you are not making someone else happy.

so that was very very very very very very very helpful right there. those are reasons i can really relate to and respect so those are reasons i can really support and undertsand in depth.

going on he was also very impressed with what erosurge said he really commented how nicely and thoughtfully you said things and how much detail you went into. // he responded to a lot of things you said, too many to list here, he agreed that everyone has needs.. he sees this as a conflict of needs between us. he also really related to the idea that he doesnt want to suppress who he feels he is. he feels its a 'losing battle' and that he -could- suppress it, but he just doesnt see why he should have to. he really appreciated and commented on the detail that you went into and how kindly you explained things.

we both really loved the awesome wine who was ok with annika having a whiskey sometimes. that made both of us really laugh a lot. so we loved a lot in that answer too. and yes it makes a lot of sense. the one things that makes it more complicated for me, is that its actually easier for me to accept he gets stuff from men he coludnt get from me........ i would actually prefer it if he wanted to be with men.. that actually turns me on and doesnt threaten me at all. i can see that much more as 'just sex' which doesnt really bother me. its much easier for me to accept guys give him stuff i cant. also im not afraid other guys will try to steal him, as i am a litle more concerned that girls will want to! // girls cant always compartmentalize so well and my bf is a hell of a catch. im a bit worried some wont be able to keep their head you know and will not respect our relationship.

so its been interesting for me psychologically to examlne why its easier for me to accept him being with a guy than a girl. i actually have no problem if he just wants sex. it bothers me much more he wants intimacy too, ("Not much" he says) or that its other girls specifically.. i definitely find that more threatening and im trying to explore that now. on a pure level, i dont believe 'women' should challenge me more than 'men' as i tend to bleieve we are all the same sex ultimately just on a continuum we are all humans. so that has ben interesting ot think about.

so alll of that i found very undernstandable and very helpful..... bi guy im not sure about what you said. i think monagamy is practical for those who it suits them....// however i really respect my bf for standing up for what he wants, and not just fighting his feelings and feeling bad about himself, i respect it and love it about him that he is open about what he wants and he doesnt like to live how he feels, dishionestly. im glad hes open about it and asks for what he wants honestly instead of you know, just fighting it and being misearble or, just cheating a lot. so both of us agreed with you on that.


so theres a couple of parts as i said that are making it more complicated for me after we talked, than 'just sex'..... this is getting a little more challenging and i will explain why.

so: this is the basis of our agreemetn so far what i have offered him: he feels that he gets chances to be sexual with someone maybe once or twice a year. thats totally fine with me i told him hes got 2 maybe 3 passes a year form me no questions asked. no restrictions. (except testing for std's) becuase i understand it is him expresing himself and therefore dont want to put a lot of rules on it..

(oops im editing this to add that my other requirement is that he must tell the girl he is in a relationship. sometime during the encounter hopefully before. mostly becuase i feel this is fair to the girl. and will reduce misunderstandings. does that sound fair?)

ok either way im totally ok with that and it actually turns me on a bit. he says thats enough for him right now and he feels good with that. my only real requirement is that it not be more than one time, with each person. // because i feel that is not just sex anymore but more of a relationship which im not as ok with. so i also asked him what he would want in like his best case scenario..... and he ultiamtely wants some of those opportunities to develop into longer term things.

that is something i find myself having a big problem with. we havent futher talked about it, he said it wasnt a super huge deal and hes willing to put it off for at least a year and maybe more, i told him i would renegotoiate that at a year and he was ok with that, but thats something i have a much bigger issue with and im tryign to explore why. im not sure exactly how important it is to him ultimately we havent talked about that further.

he says he specifically doesnt want anything that 'feels like a relationship' and i feel that he is planning to compartmentalize these too, sort of friends with benefits, as it might be with a man that way, (which ironicaclly woulndt bother me at all) but it bothers me a lot that it would be with a woman becuase women tend to want relationships. i really honestly dont trust women to be able to be casual with him, and compartmentalize enough, he is like a strong drug you lose your head prety easy with him. it is hard for me peresonally to compartmentalize sex and feelings, especially when a guy inspires really strong feelings as he does..... so if hes imagining 'fwb' with these girls thats another thing thats not easy for me to intuitively understand.

and i really am concerned that ultimately it would start taking too much of his time and energy away from being with me if he had ongoing relationships with others. becuase they wouldnt be with guys and just sex, they would be with girls which means goign out and geting coffe and lots of texting and email and on and on. so taht is somethign that is really concerning me right now and something im not sure i could be ok with. im pretty sure he would be hapy putting it off for a good two years. however i know it would probably eventually happen mabye sooner than i want it to and that concerns me. sure love to hear some input on that guys.

so i guess.. what do you guys think of concurrent ongoign relationships like that? i can -totally- understand if he had fwb with a guy. i really dont see how that would bother me. it really bothers me if its with a girl. to me thats the beginning of a 'relationsihp' and not just sex anymore. but i could be loking at that from my own perspective too much cause he disagrees. mabye again some people are better at compartmentalizing that kind of stuff. he says he feels totally capable of having on goign sexual relatoinships that are not, 'relationships'. but hastn explained exactly how. or what he would do if some girl couldnt keep perespective and tried to get inappropriate.

knowing him and how afectionate and intimate he likes to be, i know that he could possibly develop a lot of intimacy with those poeple.... sex to him is really close with intimacy and affection. he loves to snuggle and kiss and stuff and its never 'just sex' with him. he says that intimacy is part of it and he does want some emotional component with these people. just 'not much'. ultimately i feel as though this is something that i could be ok with, as anything, under the correct circumstances. but our relationship would have to be going very, very well. ultiamtely, its somethign id really rahter not have happening. to me that is asking too much in some ways. any thoughts would be really great.

so........... any words of wisdom on that aspect........... oh i wish he were just into guys, agh that would be so much easier than this.

ive also told him if he wants to swing with guys or girls thats always on the table. i would really enjoy seeing him with another guy and ive told him that lots of times.

as far as girls im really tryign to be unselfish becuase he has always been so unselfish with me. hes the most unselfish lover ive ever known, he has given me so much, it makes me want to not be selfish with him. at the same time i want to be realistic about what i want long term. i dont want to just get more and more on the sidelines while he spends more time with other people. i dont know if thats what would happen or not.

so this is what happened form your answers ok they were incredibly enlightening and useful and like i said helped us have the only realy helpful converstaion we have had on this topic yet. we have a tentative agreement which is a huge relief for me though im not sure i can be comfortable with ongoing concurrent relationships with women. what do you guys think is that too much to ask? is that something also that im not seeing in the correct way? thanks so much like i said you guys like are seriously helping us a lot. im goign to print these things so we can keep talking about them. honestly its really helped. ok well thanks again........... hope i was clear, im sure looking forward to hearing about this stuff, it just gets curiuoser and curiouser.

thanks for your really great and thoughtful answers very much. he was really happy to read the stuff you said.

[Bisexual Explorer]

Cherry,

Good questions. The last one, why doesnt it mean you are unhappy in the relationship? strikes me as very problematic. It's impossible for any relationship to satisfy every need. A non-sexual example. My wife is an artist; I am not. To satisfy her very deep seated need to express herself, my wife spends a lot of time painting, going to galleries, and museums, often with fellow artists, both male and female. I stay home most of the time; galleries and museums are not my thing. I believe it would be wrong, and very bad for our relationship, for me to be jealous that I am able to satisfy her need to express herself artistically. It would be equally wrong for her to insist that I become as interested in art as she is. Yes, I am unhappy that she spends so much time in an activity that excludes me. No, I am not unhappy in the relationship.

Sex always seems to be the exception. Instead of my wife being an artist, suppose she is bisexual and wants to have sex with men, in addition to myself. . This hypothetical (as far as I know) case is analogous to the above. In fact, I'm the bisexual one in the relationship. Sex with men is a need our relationship doesn't satisfy. That is very different from my being unhappy in the relationship.

Bisexual Explorer

[cherry88]

Cherry,

Sex always seems to be the exception. Instead of my wife being an artist, suppose she is bisexual and wants to have sex with men, in addition to myself. . This hypothetical (as far as I know) case is analogous to the above.

Bisexual Explorer

i dont know why i feel this way... you guys im really really sad and down tonight. i dont know why i feel that way. i dont know why it feels like sex is different but it does. it does to me and i dont know why.

i dont mind some things and im ok with some things, really 'just sex' i really ddont mind that much...... he already has plenty of social life withiout me thats never been a problem. but i just dont know if i want someone i love, someone i want to really build something with, wanting to share that much with other people... in terms of, longer term stuff.. its different to me than the other social stuff he does or that people do. i dont know why i feel this way right now.

i really do love this person and i want to accept him and enjoy him as he is, im trying to understand him, but i just dont know that i am ok, with someone i love wanting to share that much with others. our relationship would have to be going -realy- really well for me to be ok with something like that. right now it isnt going that well.

he actually was crying the ohter night, literally crying becuase he said 'the good times we used to have are gone' and he is so sad what has happened to our good relationship becuase of this. (as i really, really, really am too) i wish he would have thought of that before doing something that would pretty surely hurt our trust so much. i mean hes admitted going behind my back was not ok and not a nice way to do it... i forgive him and i think i understand and dont want him to feel bad.. but the fact that he took that risk with our trust and stuf still makes me feel really bad.... i think it makes everythign much much harder for us to work through now without hard feelings. // i dont know how to get around that.

we are both so sad about how much trouble we are having. we dont know how to get stuff ok again. im just sad right now and feeling really really down and sad.

i so appreciate the things you all wrote and honestly i reread them all the time and refer to them, it has given me so much to think about and keep thinking about.. its helped me understand a lot of things but theres a lot more i dont know. i mean,,, where do you draw the line? when is something 'too much' in a relationsip? how much time does your partner have to spend somewhere else, doing -anything-, before you jsut dont want that anymore? like im serious, where is the line? why -is- or isnt sex different, than other social stuff you do with people? to me it feels different.

i guess thats something everyone has to determine for themselves. im just feeling really depressed right now and just wish this wasnt happening this way. i wish so much he would have just talked to me a couple years ago and been honest about what he wanted long term. yes its only 3 years in but still, 3 years is stil 3 years ive invested already. // i kind of resent this whole thing even though im trying so hard not to. im tryign to not hold it against him but still i just feel really crappy right now :<<

sorry guys im just feeling really down right now. i know he is too. its making both of us really sad and i think both of us dont know what to do. i wish it was easier for us to talk. i also really really just wish, he didn't want a lot of this stuff. sex is ok. i dont know if im ok with sharing other stuff. it feels like.. it feels like thats just a gateway to him losing more and more interest in me and just being with otehr people more and more. why isnt that what it is??? i dont want to be selfish but at the same time it may be stuff i just wont want. sorry i guess i am just venting and stuff.

[bisexualman1980]

Hi Cherry,
I'm sorry this has been so hard for the both of you. I wish I had the magic answer for you. I bet you both love each other very much, and I'm sure it is hard to not be on the same page after all of those years together. I don't think it's greedy for you to want him to yourself. Contrary to the tone of my earlier post, I am not a mono-hater. It sounds like you just want to be with this one person in an emotional way, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't have any great answers to your problem. Sorry. But I just wanted you to know that I understand why you're frustrated.

Does your boyfriend make you feel like you're important? What I mean is, in spite of his escapades in the past with other people, has he ever made you feel like you weren't special to him? I guess that's the only thing that would make me worry. If my wife were intimate with another guy or girl, it wouldn't bother me as long as she made me feel special and loved when we were together, and as long as her other relationships didn't take too much of her time away from ours. I don't know if that helps in any way, but that's how I feel. Take care.

[badbear]

hello cherry
you are rite. only you can define that line. it is your line. but food for thought. I love my wife and think we should do things together. it is hard for me to do things apart. that is in everthing. there are platoes in everthing, relastionships, work, sex, play, everthing. both of you must see this as well. you need to know talking about stuff is very impotent. but there is a time to say "we need to grow with that for a time." i all so need to ad happness comes from with in. one can only help bring that out, not make it. I wish i had some deep words of wisdom to nelp both of you get over this crossing of your lives. just keep in mind emotions can be the insight to growth, no matter what direction it is in.

[cherry88]

Hi Cherry,
I'm sorry this has been so hard for the both of you. I wish I had the magic answer for you. I bet you both love each other very much, and I'm sure it is hard to not be on the same page after all of those years together. I don't think it's greedy for you to want him to yourself. Contrary to the tone of my earlier post, I am not a mono-hater. It sounds like you just want to be with this one person in an emotional way, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't have any great answers to your problem. Sorry. But I just wanted you to know that I understand why you're frustrated.

thanks a lot that really made me feel better..... i really appreciate the empathy and stuf it just felt really nice..... i was just feeling really down right then i was nervous about his birthday party last weekend with all his close friends...... i was embarassed at being around them for the first time after his goign behind my back, i felt they wouldnt respect me or something and i wasnt looking forward to this party but he was really suportive and it all ended up ok.

one of the nicest things you guys have done is make me not feel bad for being naturally monagamous..... or for having a hard time with some of this. i think even he didnt consider that. i think he felt that if i didnt like something or wasnt comfortable with something it was because i wasnt being open minded or loving or whatever... so it made him seem kind of impatient witn some of my concerns.

our talks have gone a lot beter since coming here. he finally is giving me more credit for trying and showing more patience with my concerns. also he finally believes im really tryign to undertsand him with my questions, and not just criticize and attack him for his belefs. so he has gotten a lot less defensive and our talks have gone much easier. its also helped me, in that you guys have actually given me some real information that has realy helped me understand him in a lot of ways much better so i can stop making him feel attacked with all my questions. i actually asked him to print this thread so we can bring it to our first therapy app this thursday. it was after coming here that he actually said he was really happy we finally had an actually successful converstaion we were both really hapy about that.




Does your boyfriend make you feel like you're important? What I mean is, in spite of his escapades in the past with other people, has he ever made you feel like you weren't special to him? I guess that's the only thing that would make me worry. If my wife were intimate with another guy or girl, it wouldn't bother me as long as she made me feel special and loved when we were together, and as long as her other relationships didn't take too much of her time away from ours. I don't know if that helps in any way, but that's how I feel. Take care.

ok well those are exactly and precisely my concerns....... and this is what i told him so we are talking about this now. he has said he doesnt want it to take time away and that he doesnt want it to change how he treats me. he says he doesnt see it as changing anything material at all about our relationsip or our lives together. so we have a -lot- more to talk about to figure out how that might actually work. and what it is he -really- truly wants here.

to answer your question, in the times we are together he makes me feel like the most important thing in his universe. im not kidding, that is true. during all the times we are together he is spending quality time with me. doing stuff we like to do, making sure im happy and comfy, makign sure im totally sexually happy, on and on. if i express an interest in something he makes it happen. if i enjoy something he supports and encourages it. ive never cooked a meal alone he is -always- in the kitchen hugging and cuddling me and cooking and cleaning too. he wants to do things together, just daily, ordinary things. he just loves to be together. he loves to see me happy and delighted and he does things all the time to make me that way. he is -never- on the phone or doing work or ignoring me when we are togehter... its him and me all the way in everything and his attention is with me.

in the times we are apart he still writes me almost every day and tells me he loves me and sends me little sweet stuff and whatever. he is very very very loving and always makes me feel important and loved.

so in those ways, when we are together yes he makes me always feel special and loved and thats never for one minute stopped even when all this other stuff was going on. he has only been with one other person once, and he told me right after. and honestly his treatment of me didn't change even a tiny bit at one moment during any of that time or this time.... // i have to say. and i have to give him credit for that.

so this is what i have decided:

i have decided i must bite the bullet and realize my boyfriend is polyamorous.

i am not sure if he doesnt quite realize this himself, or doesnt know how to articulate it, or jsut isnt totally honest yet with himself (or me) about it. but i figure at this point in for a penny in for a pound. i might as well go all the way with this becuase i have a feeling that is what i am dealing with.

for this reason i have just started reading poly websites. you guys have given me a really great start and i am so indebted to all of you, however as i said, no reason messing around, shit just got real in here and so, that is what i must do as well.

after reading poly stuff i believe that he is not total poly but i think he is poly enough that it will help us both if this is the way i deal with it.

so thats what im doing! thanks again very much for all your very considerate, articulate, and well thought out help......... all of you! thanks again! i will still be hanging around but it seems thats where i need to go from here. talk to you all soon guys :>> thanks again so much your answers were really right-on.

[bisexualman1980]

Yay for progress and a possible happy ending :)

[bi4asplay]

For myself and late wife and a couple of GFs since it has been a sharing of our desires and fantasies and has worked to make us stronger as a couple. Though i do enjoy being with a man I am turned on only if she is with me. The more she enjoys watching and joining to hotter it is for me. Even if it was ok with her if I played with another man without her I would not, could not play without her.

[cherry88]

For myself and late wife and a couple of GFs since it has been a sharing of our desires and fantasies and has worked to make us stronger as a couple. Though i do enjoy being with a man I am turned on only if she is with me. The more she enjoys watching and joining to hotter it is for me. Even if it was ok with her if I played with another man without her I would not, could not play without her.

hi bi4asplay :}} i have been meaning to give an update and since you have reminded me of this thread guess i will do it here to keep it in one place...

just want to say thanks again to everyone here... and things have been going really well. we are in therapy and thats helping a huge amount. he completely volunteered to work out all the diffiuclt parts of our relatoinship and get really solid before we tried to open anything up.. and i am so very grateful for that.


its been really good for us in a huge amount of ways and we both feel a lot closer and are having a lot more fun being together becuase we are much mroe comfortable around each other and know each ohter a lot more deeply and its been reallly really nice really a turn on and really good for our relationship.

i also wish we oculd do stuff together, id love so much to be with other guys with him!! that isnt exactly what he was looking for (he is looking to be with girls now mostly) but he said he wouldnt be against it at all... we are still talking stuf out and finding out new stuff about each other and also getting more and more understanding about what the other pereson wants and what our values are and how we can approach things to both be happy. we both seem to be on the same page wtih a lot of the reall important stuf which is sort of always suprrising to me.

its been super great for both of us and really deepenend things between us a huge amount and improved our relationship very very much. im very happy ive been able to find it as much of a turn on as i have both emotionally and sexually. its not super easy all the time but hes been really awesome and helpful and supportive and we are sticking together and he is saying that he is now feeling more comfortable again to be with me for a long time. which is exactly what i want too.

im stil a bit scared of the unknown bits but he is giving me lots of time and space to get used to things and particiapting completely in therapy and answering all my questions and being a super awesome boyfriend like always and that is all making it much easier for me.

i just dont like too much suprise or the unknown or feeling pushed.. so the more i feel i feel i know whats going on, and the more i feel i have space to get used to it on my own terms a bit, i can be very very open minded and im enjoying that very much. my bf is also enjoying it very much and i can tell he is much much much happier. he is also referring to himself now as bisexual and seems to have kind of accepted that he is at least partly bisexual and is being open about that which has also been awsome for boht our emotoinal and sexual life.

so all of this has brought us a lot closer as a couple very very very much and its been extremely worth it. im also finding to my great happiness that im realy not a super jealous person. i really never was and i knew taht, but that hasnt been my largest problem at all in any way and ive been very gratified by that.

im mainly just concerned with being treated ethically and with respect and all that and not being betrayed or lied to or stuf like that..... but fortunately jealousy itself doesnt seem to be a super massive issue for me and ive been very thankful for that. i dont like feling jealous so im happy that sometimes i get twinges but its often like five minutes later ive forgotten about it. so i feel thats a good sign. ive been able to work with it and it really hasnt been overwhleming at all. i find im very capable of being turned on by my bf (or me) (or even better, us) being with iother people in the right circumstances. id prefer doing it together though also.. for sure ;}}

well there are other updates most about our super awesome sex life now that he has figured out hes partly bi. boy has that been enjoyable for both of us.

well ok you guys.. .thanks again just been wanting to say hi and just thought i would do it since i saw this thread again. thanks again everyone for all your help and such just wanted to give a bit of update.

who knows what will hapen and all but so far it has definitely made us much, muich closer as a couple and i certainly wouldnt trade it for anything.. though its certainly been a hellllll of a learning curve. !!@

pshew.

[elian]

Having an "alternate sexuality" is never easy but it's not necessarily "wrong" either. You are both within your rights to be treated respectfully, I know what you mean by "ethically" too but as you can see, what is "moral" is something that you are both working on defining. Thankfully you sort of like the idea of seeing him with other people, well men at least.

I was forced to have an open mind because of my sexuality growing up and although I really didn't want to accept myself I had to anyway. What I found was that rather than my world falling apart it actually got bigger. It increased my compassion and understanding for others and showed me that there are other points of view besides my own.

Yes, it probably is a sensitive issue for him because he may still be searching to define himself, plus you are wondering whether or not he loves you and how much. Some guys would do anything to show you that they love you, but denying a part of what you were born with can be very painful. Actually you are BOTH searching to define yourselves..nothing wrong with that, life is always moving, growing and changing - if it weren't things would be stagnant and boring. Can't say that it will always be the way you envision, I can't even say whether or not you'll be together but no matter what happens, remember you are both loved very much. At least BECAUSE you've had to work so hard neither one of you takes the other for granted.

Good luck - I'm glad you've made progress this far anyway.