Confused Here

[J Marcus Levin]

This post is not meant to criticize the bisexual person in any way. It is meant as a real, honest, open request for knowledge regarding the thoughts and opinions (both those who agree and disagree with them) about the subject. No harm or disrespect intended in any way.

I read through a few of these forum posts and thought about how confusing some of these statements are when it comes to being "bi" and being in "a relationship" with a person of the opposite sex. Seems on this forum or on this site, people feel that it is ok sexually active (non-monogamous) as a bi person, regardless of how your SO feels about it, even though you have made a commitment to a person of the opposite sex. Lots of talk about "want" versus "need" for example. To me, the decision to remain monogamous is a personal one. According to Drew, the definition of bisexual here is as follows: A person who has attractions to both genders. It does not say it is a biological "need" to have sex with both genders. It does not say it is a "must" to have sex with both genders. It does state there is an attraction factor there. I am just curious as to how the "attraction" to someone of the same sex is any different than to a person of the opposite sex when it comes to boundaries. As a married person, I find lots of women attractive. I do not act on that attraction due to my commitment to my wife and she, in turn, does the same for me. Marriage does not take away the desire or attraction for others and neither does that commitment. I just wonder how people are using this term to satiate our desires without actually committing to the one person we have chosen to be our SO and how we can justify that.

[Gearbox]

You and your wife don't have sex with anybody else even though you both know the other wants to.
You want to justify that first?

[Cherokee_Mountaincat]

Not meaning to be indelicate, Hon, but why are You here? To seek out info, enlightenment, knowledge, info, or to just delve into the minds of Bisexual folks who are slinking around on their spouses?
Curious Cat

[darkeyes]

You and your wife don't have sex with anybody else even though you both know the other wants to.
You want to justify that first?
There is nothing to justify, Gear.. it is their choice to be monogamous even knowing of each others desires.. just as their is no need for justification should both within a relationship not be monogamous... justification, if that's the right word, comes when one partner goes outside of that relationship without the knowledge of the other or attempts to persuade a partner to open things up in some way..

[Gearbox]

There is nothing to justify, Gear.. it is their choice to be monogamous even knowing of each others desires.. just as their is no need for justification should both within a relationship not be monogamous... justification, if that's the right word, comes when one partner goes outside of that relationship without the knowledge of the other or attempts to persuade a partner to open things up in some way..
There's just as much to justify in one scanario than in any other. This monogamous couple for eg, are knowingly surpressing their real honest sexual urges for the sake of some contract/pact they have with the other. Both knowingly do this because (?) neither (or one) don't have the emotionaly capacity to allow freedom into their relationship and get to know each other without restrictions.
That maybe exempt from scrutiny to you, but to many it's obviously not. Hence cheating and open relationships etc.

[J Marcus Levin]

Who says we have to give in to our impulses just because we have them? There may not be anyone at the red light at 4am, but I am not going to run the light because I don't want to sit there. I thought we were more evolved than just allowing ourselves to be instantly gratified at the expense of a relationship. And why would she have sex with someone else just because she knows I want to or vice-versa?

[J Marcus Levin]

Trying to understand how some see it as a "need" and others see it as a "want." There seems to be no standard for that.

[Gearbox]

Who says we have to give in to our impulses just because we have them? There may not be anyone at the red light at 4am, but I am not going to run the light because I don't want to sit there. I thought we were more evolved than just allowing ourselves to be instantly gratified at the expense of a relationship. And why would she have sex with someone else just because she knows I want to or vice-versa?
Evolved? You think monogamy is an advanced form of self discipline or something? Nope! It's the revese for many.
Why wouldn't your wife have sexual urges for other men or women?

[J Marcus Levin]

No, I do not think that. But just as we no longer live in caves and act like mongrels doesn't mean we don't have primal instincts that we (hopefully) have grown out of. Obviously, I, myself, do not subscribe to the whole "monogamy is against our nature" point of view. I never said my wife wouldn't have the urges. I just said that it doesn't make sense to me to act as if this is a biological issue that like eating or breathing. It is a question of making up your mind to be committed or not. I am sure lots of couples have resolved this issue in their relationships. I just had a question was all. Thanks for everyone's input.

[Jobelorocks]

Well, I am a bisexual woman married to a straight man. I realize that I do not need to have sex with anyone, sex is a want, not a need. My husband and I have decided together to be swingers and we are very happy that way. If he at any point didn't want to swing anymore, that would be the end of it and same if I didn't want to anymore. Being bisexual doesn't mean that you are at all okay with cheating or that you aren't monogamous. Bisexuals are as diverse as any other group, some are celibate, some are monogamous, some are polyamourous, some are swingers, some are cheaters, ect. ect. ect. Some people use their bisexuality as an excuse to cheat, but not all do.

Pal, if monogamy works for you and you and your SO agree to that, fine. If something else works for other people, then fine. I mind my business as far as other people's private lives, because it is none of my business what they do or don't do. If they ask my opinion or for my advice, I will give it and leave it at that.

[Gearbox]

Seems to me you forgot about your plea for honesty soon as monogamy was questioned.

[darkeyes]

Well, I am a bisexual woman married to a straight man. I realize that I do not need to have sex with anyone, sex is a want, not a need. My husband and I have decided together to be swingers and we are very happy that way. If he at any point didn't want to swing anymore, that would be the end of it and same if I didn't want to anymore. Being bisexual doesn't mean that you are at all okay with cheating or that you aren't monogamous. Bisexuals are as diverse as any other group, some are celibate, some are monogamous, some are polyamourous, some are swingers, some are cheaters, ect. ect. ect. Some people use their bisexuality as an excuse to cheat, but not all do.

Pal, if monogamy works for you and you and your SO agree to that, fine. If something else works for other people, then fine. I mind my business as far as other people's private lives, because it is none of my business what they do or don't do. If they ask my opinion or for my advice, I will give it and leave it at that.
Can go along with most of this Jobe.. even usually the bit in bold... can't and won't say for sure 'bout u or speak for ne 1 else, but sometimes... often...there are times when sex is very much a need... sometimes a very desperate need... as evidenced in some small way I dare to suggest, by the frequency with which many of us masturbate... we may want to and sometimes do it cos we know it will feel good.. but very often it is because we need to... have u never been so hot u couldn't stop yourself and felt driven to it? What else is horny if it isn't need?

[tenni]

"It does not say it is a biological "need" to have sex with both genders. It does not say it is a "must" to have sex with both genders. It does state there is an attraction factor there. I am just curious as to how the "attraction" to someone of the same sex is any different than to a person of the opposite sex when it comes to boundaries. As a married person, I find lots of women attractive. I do not act on that attraction due to my commitment to my wife and she, in turn, does the same for me. Marriage does not take away the desire or attraction for others and neither does that commitment. I just wonder how people are using this term to satiate our desires without actually committing to the one person we have chosen to be our SO and how we can justify that."


In my opinion one factor that may make you wonder about "need" versus "desire" is that bisexuality seems to be a wide range of sexualities and more than not more than one sexuality. You may be a different type of bisexual compared to someone who has a need for sex with both genders. Another factor is that bisexuals often are fluid in their sexual preference and needs.

Sex is a biological need and without it we may not reach our potential in other aspects of becoming a self actualized person. You do not die from a lack of sex directly but people can become depressed and suffer mental illness from being unfulfilled sexually as far as their bisexuality. There are several studies stating that drugs, alcohol, depression and other mental illnesses are more prevalent in bisexuals than gay or heterosexuals. Some bisexuals die from these illnesses due to their lack of fulfillment sexually. it may be direct such as suicide or it may be indirect such as cirrhosis of the liver etc. Certainly, increased risky behaviour tends to increase in some bisexual men who are not fulfilled sexually by both male and female partners.

Orhers may have an interest and not a need for sex with both genders. I notice that you see yourself as a 3 and you are probably attracted to both men and women equally. You may not have a need but a low desire for same sex activity. I don't know. You may suppress your need because you place a higher value on something else. You may not be aware yet of the impact of suppressing your sexual needs.


The fact that you find many women attractive while having sex with your female partner is not quite the same as needing sex with your own gender and not being able to obtain it while still having sex with the opposite gender. You seem to be making an apples and oranges comparison imo.

I also notice that your profile states that you have just joined today. You seem to have some rather strong opinions on bisexuality for a person who has just joined? Perhaps, you have been skulking and reading the site for awhile or ?

[tenni]

"Seems on this forum or on this site, people feel that it is ok sexually active (non-monogamous) as a bi person, regardless of how your SO feels about it, even though you have made a commitment to a person of the opposite sex."

Perhaps you are misunderstanding posts or some posters are communicating an idea different than their intent. It may have been a post by me. I know other have accused me of your above statement. If you factor in your SO feelings towards bisexuality and they have no understanding but expect their status quo to remain heterosexual, there is a problem. Things change over time. Commitments made ten to twenty years ago may be inappropriate for the relationship. Nothing is static in life. The issue is when bisexuality is not dealt with to the mutual acceptance of both parties. That is different than not taking a SO feelings in to account. There has been much posted about the expectation that bisexual should suppress their sexuality to remain in a calm relationship. Each situation is different. If communication has broken down, it is broke.

[Jobelorocks]

Darkeyes, you and I have a very different definition of need. Sex is a desire, maybe a strong desire, but not a need. That is why some can be celibate and happy. Now a healthy sex life and regular sexual release is healthy and contributes to happiness, but you aren't going to die if you don't have sex. I see a need as something you will die without. Food, water, air, shelter, and little else are needs. There are things that are very important to your well being that aren't needs.

I am a hyper-sexual person and I want to have sex 2-4 times a day, I generally don't get that much due to schedules and such, but I am just fine having it about 6-9 times a week. Heck, I even have gone months without sex when my husband is gone and I am just fine. I still masturbate, because I want to, but I don't need to. I recognize that my sexual desires are just that, desires. People can live happy and full lives without sex, not all of us, but some.

Each of us need to make healthy life choices for ourselves and need to come to agreements about these choices with any and all significant others. And as I said earlier, it is generally best for us to mind our own business and let others make their own decisions.

[Long Duck Dong]

Well, I am a bisexual woman married to a straight man. I realize that I do not need to have sex with anyone, sex is a want, not a need. My husband and I have decided together to be swingers and we are very happy that way. If he at any point didn't want to swing anymore, that would be the end of it and same if I didn't want to anymore. Being bisexual doesn't mean that you are at all okay with cheating or that you aren't monogamous. Bisexuals are as diverse as any other group, some are celibate, some are monogamous, some are polyamourous, some are swingers, some are cheaters, ect. ect. ect. Some people use their bisexuality as an excuse to cheat, but not all do.


i agree with jobel, except I am not a bisexual woman married to a straight man lol......

j marcus levin

being bisexual and bisexuality are as diverse as the races and cultures of the world and even sexuality has their own * cultures * the celibate, the monogamous, the poly, the swingers, the cheaters and the lost and wandering.......

each person is different in the way they think about feel about their lives, relationships and how they could or should live..... and there is no way to just draw a line in the sand and say that people are either on this side or that side...... and that is why bisexuality and bisexuals are often seen according to the * majority * voice......a bit like the democrat and republican parties.....but within the parties, there is individual voices and opinions that may or may not get expressed, that go in a different direction to the status quo of the party...

as for marriage and monogamy, they mean different things to different people..... and so some marriages were created on custom made vows that were written to suit both partners, as they have made a commitment to love, honour and support the other person and embrace who they are as a person, allowing the freedom to spread the wings and fly...... a aspect of the marriage could well be that a commitment was made to each other that they would not change or be changed by the marriage or the person they married and they married cos they shared a common interest ( amongst other reasons ) in having a person they loved and people they shared sexual experiences with.....

some people ( like me ) would made a vow to a person that we are there for them, as a companion, lover, parent, teacher, support person etc and forgo the *restrictions * that other people may see as part of marriage, tho in my case, its a life time vow that is unbreakable for me, so even if my partner and I married then divorced, that vow of support remains until one of us died, even if she remarries somebody else.......

so there is a lot more to the situation of bisexuality and marriage, than just a vow between two people and a commitment for life.... hell just look at the fight over same sex marriage and how its still not legal for so many cos some people believe that its wrong for two same gender people to love each other the same way so many other people love other people of the opposite gender.....

there are times when it is easier not to question how people think but talk with them as people and learn as best we can, how they think and feel... even the aspects that we can not relate to or understand in our own minds......and a big part of why people struggle to understand something, is that they can not relate to it, they get what people are saying but its like talking to a person from another culture, we have so much in common yet, the way we think, feel and look at things, can be so different..... and that is why some people get the impression that bisexuals are so distantly removed from the rest of the human race, lol.... even tho we share about 80% of the same interests, desires and understandings as the rest of the human race, the only difference can be who we are attracted to and whom we are intimate with.....

[randy1149]

According to Drew, the definition of bisexual here is as follows: A person who has attractions to both genders..

I don't think so. A bisexual is: A person who want's to have sex with persons of both genders. I have no attractions to men. Although I love to suck a mans cock kissing them will make me thorough up.

[void()]

I don't think so. A bisexual is: A person who want's to have sex with persons of both genders. I have no attractions to men. Although I love to suck a mans cock kissing them will make me thorough up.

want

That's really the crux of the issue too. It is not always a need. And yes, there can be worlds of difference
between want and need. Love and commitment can and do outweigh a want, at least in my view. Result?
I do not cheat or lie to my wife, or boyfriend. There's no need to do so.

If I have a need, I tell either of them directly, honestly. They in turn can tell me their needs. I will try fufilling
them to my best ability. As far as wants, only children die from them, or think they will. This is probably of course
a repeat of my answers to posts dealing with this subject matter. Oh well ...

[darkeyes]

Darkeyes, you and I have a very different definition of need. Sex is a desire, maybe a strong desire, but not a need. That is why some can be celibate and happy. Now a healthy sex life and regular sexual release is healthy and contributes to happiness, but you aren't going to die if you don't have sex. I see a need as something you will die without. Food, water, air, shelter, and little else are needs. There are things that are very important to your well being that aren't needs.

I am a hyper-sexual person and I want to have sex 2-4 times a day, I generally don't get that much due to schedules and such, but I am just fine having it about 6-9 times a week. Heck, I even have gone months without sex when my husband is gone and I am just fine. I still masturbate, because I want to, but I don't need to. I recognize that my sexual desires are just that, desires. People can live happy and full lives without sex, not all of us, but some.

Each of us need to make healthy life choices for ourselves and need to come to agreements about these choices with any and all significant others. And as I said earlier, it is generally best for us to mind our own business and let others make their own decisions.e
Seems we do Jobe... but perhaps not as much as u think.. some of us are as u say celibate.. many have much less of a sex drive.. they have their own ways and their own needs and wants.. I too am healthy girl, very fond of a quick (though more of a much time consuming) tumble... I have a powerful sex drive... that drive tells me sometimes I want and fancy which is a bit less than need, but occasionally.. quite often in fact it tells me more.. that I need... and need desperately.. I am driven. Hence to a great extent we have the expression sex drive... I may not die through not having sex.. but I will be a far less pleasant person for lack of it.. and deprived of it in time potentially could do some psychological damage... something doesn't have to threaten your life for it to be a need, although for some lack of sex does that too... and in relationships it can prove to be a destructive and sometimes even fatal mechanism...at times for me it becomes far more than want.. it is certainly desire.. but it is much too powerful for me to say that it is always just want... tenni has the right of it.. human beings in general do need sex and are driven to it... we are animals not quite like any other, but animals nonetheless.. and within us we have our wants and our needs.. for most of us I would argue that it is at least some of the time in our lives a primal need..

We are all different.. and I speak mostly of myself, my own desires, wants and needs... and from my knowledge of human sex and sexuality and don't think many of us are all that different.. the degree possibly, but not the reality.. I don't presume to tell u what your own sexuality is or is not, only my own.. but I do dare suggest that u underestimate the place of need in human sexuality as a whole...

[Jobelorocks]

Darkeyes- I do not think that I underestimate the importance of sex. I just recognize that I won't (and no one else will either) die from not having sex. It is important to ones well being in most cases, but not all. If it was a need no one would be able to be celibate and happy. Sex is important to relationships, important for mental well being, ect. ect., but still not a need, just a drive, a desire. We have the luxury of living in a country where most people have their needs pretty much met and if they don't there is many sources of help. I think that because of that, many of us see so many things a need that aren't. When someone is struggling to survive, I bet they aren't thinking, I need sex! It isn't an universal human need, but it does contribute greatly to fulfillment and happiness in many, but not all, lives.

[J Marcus Levin]

"I also notice that your profile states that you have just joined today. You seem to have some rather strong opinions on bisexuality for a person who has just joined? Perhaps, you have been skulking and reading the site for awhile or?"

WOW. So, as a bisexual male who has been reading forums on many websites for many years, it is considered "skulking" because I didn't join the site first, before I read anything? Guess I came to the wrong place with my query.

[tenni]

Jobel
I think that you go too far and studies and theories do not line up with your belief. The farthest that you may state and be correct is that sex is not a need for you.

It is in fact a basic human need that needs often over rules such aspects as job and family. It is not the same as air to breath, water to drink or food but it is in the same level as them as a basic human needs. Some people who are celibate are denying themselves and are fine or appear to be fine. Some think that they are fine and in fact behaviour may arise that is not productive to a happy life without sex. All that we need to point out to you is the Catholic Church and celibate priests troubles that have existed for a very long time but just publicly surfaced in the past decade or so. (I'm a former Catholic)

J Marcus
Not necessarily the wrong site to raise this question. Your opinion as I wrote seems strong and raises controversial issues from the past.

There have been unfortunately some who have appeared suddenly with bad intent. Sorry for wondering but yes if you have been reading this site and others you have been skulking or "stealth" mode..have you not? I know that I initially was in that position here six years ago when I joined. I was a member and never posted for three years(well 8 posts in three years) and then became vocal.

Drew gave this definition perhaps a month ago after some rather strong opinions were expressed and people were banned.

Actually, Drew's definition is not as complete as the more common definition "Bisexuality is a physical sexual and/ or emotional attraction to both genders". Does that help? The "and/or" aspect is more inclusive and fits under Drew's definition.

[darkeyes]

Jobe.. I have no doubt u don't underestimate the importance of sex.. but that isn't what I suggested u underestimate.. u seem dismissive of need as an important aspect of our relationship with sex... and if u believe that desire for sex, and the sex drive.. the need for sex has never cost a life, even that of the person who had that desire, want, need, call it what u will then u display considerable naivety.. it causes considerable pyschological problems for many not least because of the shame that so many in society seem to want to make us feel... I am unable to speak for u just as u can't for me or anyone else.. most human beings have an inbuilt genetic need for sex.. for many it is part of the drive to procreate.. but not all..and a little less so since the inception of oral contraception.. but for most the need for sex, recreational and/or procreational is very real..

[Jobelorocks]

Don't call me naive just because I don't believe it is a need and view needs differently than you do. I am not naive. Sex is important to the well being of many and I have recognized that and honestly what you have said has not convinced me even a little that sex is a need. You just think of need as way more broad than I do. My idea of need changed greatly when I was young and is very ingrained. I see a need as something you dies without. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[tenni]

"I see a need as something you dies without."

Then you definition is too narrow. You are discussing physical survival which different from need.

Need is defined as "a requirement" and includes sex for adult humans or most adult humans if they are to be self actualized. A person may sacrifice a basic need for a higher goal. This includes food and water to some extent. Without fulfilling our needs our cognitive abilities diminish. Judgement alters. We need sleep and we need sex in order to function properly.

[J Marcus Levin]

I did not forget my plea. I am being honest. Everyone, including myself and my wife, do not feel the lack of desire or attraction to other people just because we are married. We choose, that's right, choose, to honor each other and our commitment by being honest about that. We choose not to take our vows so lightly as to have sexual contact with others. It is our agreement and we have a right to that. Again, I just wanted honest opinions from others, as well as I have given my honest opinion.

[Gearbox]

We could go further and question survival being a need. I'm off to 'Heaven' when I die, so it's not that vital to me.:tongue: (Assuming they'll have me)
My daughter needs me, so I need to survive here. It's all relative and has no meaning without goals to create it.
'WANT' becomes 'NEED' when it satisfies certain requirements to obtain a goal, and that's all it is.

So when there are differences in goals, or 2 or more goals running in unison within a partnership, there will be different 'needs'. Neither may be more important in relation to any other. The contract/pact may become reduced to just a 'want' by one and their singular goal becomes a 'need'. Some bi's see same sex as a 'want' but sex with them as a 'need', and the sex isn't continuous, so not important to a relationship that is. So to some, it's not realy cheating with their own gender.
It's all done with mirrors.;)

[Gearbox]

I did not forget my plea. I am being honest. Everyone, including myself and my wife, do not feel the lack of desire or attraction to other people just because we are married. We choose, that's right, choose, to honor each other and our commitment by being honest about that. We choose not to take our vows so lightly as to have sexual contact with others. It is our agreement and we have a right to that. Again, I just wanted honest opinions from others, as well as I have given my honest opinion.
Yes simmer down!lol I'm sure your honour for an agreement is lovely.:)

[tenni]

I did not forget my plea. I am being honest. Everyone, including myself and my wife, do not feel the lack of desire or attraction to other people just because we are married. We choose, that's right, choose, to honor each other and our commitment by being honest about that. We choose not to take our vows so lightly as to have sexual contact with others. It is our agreement and we have a right to that. Again, I just wanted honest opinions from others, as well as I have given my honest opinion.

You have used the word "everyone". Are you sure that is correct as it makes the second sentence confusing? I wonder if you mean that everyone is tempted with desires for others?

Well, I'm not quite sure why you think that others do not honour you choice to honour each other and your commitment and vows. What I hope that you also realize and accept are the variations of bisexuals and not all are the same as you as far as need versus desire. If it works for you both, excellent. Your contract works for you.

Others need to be able to negotiate a different agreement. Society over all is more supportive of your choice than those who chose a different path than you. Society resists many bisexual needs..well those that have needs differing from your desire.

Not all bisexuals are in monosexual relationships that works for them. Some of us have chosen a different path. Honour and respect our path just as you honour and respect those on a similar path as your own.

[tall tale]

[QUOTE=tenni;239613]You have used the word "everyone". Are you sure that is correct as it makes the second sentence confusing? I wonder if you mean that everyone is tempted with desires for others?

Well, I'm not quite sure why you think that others do not honour you choice to honour each other and your commitment and vows. What I hope that you also realize and accept are the variations of bisexuals and not all are the same as you as far as need versus desire. If it works for you both, excellent. Your contract works for you.

Others need to be able to negotiate a different agreement. Society over all is more supportive of your choice than those who chose a different path than you. Society resists many bisexual needs..well those that have needs differing from your desire.

Not all bisexuals are in monosexual relationships that works for them. Some of us have chosen a different path. Honour and respect our path just as you honour and respect those on a similar path as your own.[/QUOT

Is it your normal attitude to do an autopsy on every single word of someone you have a bent for, or are you just an ass?

[tenni]

Why thanks. Yes, I do have a cute ass...:bounce::wiggle2:

[DuckiesDarling]

Amusing to see the varied responses to the thread and, as usual, a simple question of WANT vs NEED was turned into a thread on the merits of monogamy. Let's just all agree that monogamy and non monogamy are personal choices and have not one thing to do with the actual question of WANT vs NEED.

Sex is not a NEED, and it doesn't matter how many times you continue to try and insist it is, it is a WANT. You will not die without sex, does it make Johnny a happier camper?? Yeah, but he's not gonna curl up and die cause he doesn't have sex. He will, however, die without water.

I need food, I want Burger King. I will not die if I do not have Burger King, I will die without food, period.

The way you all are trying to describe it as a need makes it come off as nothing more than an addiction. Monks who are celibate are not crazy, nymphomaniacs who jump every bone they can are on a mental disorder list.. now who's crazy??? Think about it and stop trying to rewrite definitions just for your own personal agenda. At least man up, or woman up in some cases, and admit it's a WANT that you just don't want to do without.

[falcondfw]

Well said DD. Much as many may think it is, sex is not a NEED.

[bityme]

I did not forget my plea. I am being honest. Everyone, including myself and my wife, do not feel the lack of desire or attraction to other people just because we are married. We choose, that's right, choose, to honor each other and our commitment by being honest about that. We choose not to take our vows so lightly as to have sexual contact with others. It is our agreement and we have a right to that. Again, I just wanted honest opinions from others, as well as I have given my honest opinion.

You have provided your own explanation. You "choose" to include in your vows a commitment to monogamy. That is your "agreement" and, certainly, you "have a right to that." There are also those of us who thought things out ahead of time, who were open and honest with each other about our wants, needs, compulsions, desires, inclinations, alternative recreation, kinks, fetishes, quirks, etc., and came to a mutually satisfactory "agreement" about retaining some or all of those activities and rejecting the idea of monogamy when we married. There are also others who decided at some point during their marriage to do the same. All of us have the "right" to do so; no justification is necessary.

When it comes to discussion of your query in the context of those seeking expression of their bisexuality, either undisclosed or undiscovered prior to making a commitment, only they can speak for themselves. I wouldn't judge them, although you will find numerous discussions about cheating in various threads.

Times change, and so do peoples attitudes about sexual expression. Most states have removed the issue of fidelity from their divorce laws. Most have made consensual sexual conduct between adults completely legal regardless of the form it takes. Discussions of this nature arise when people feel pressure to seek change in attitudes and expectations that our society views as "written in stone."

Individuals must make the decision that works best for them. Sometimes that may mean "remaining in the closet" and seeking sexual satisfaction "on the side," whether its heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual. No matter how much openness and honesty might be preferred, there are those situations when disclosure would be more destructive to more lives than the non-disclosure. Sad, but true. Seeking an understanding of how and why people act the way they do and make the decisions they make requires an inquiry into much more than wants or desires arising from sexual orientation. It is never as simplistic as saying it's OK to seek sexual satisfaction elsewhere and break my commitment to someone just because I want to.

Pappy

[tenni]

good points pappy.

Sex as a need versus desire is one aspect but not clear on how it relates to bisexual needs versus desires in contrast to monosexuals desires or needs.

Still...food for thought.
.................................................. ..........
A man's sexuality has a tremendous impact on his emotional, marital and spiritual well-being.
by Dr. Juli Siattery

"One of the biggest differences between you (female) and your husband is the fact that he experiences sex as a legitimate physical need. Just as your body tells you when you're hungry, thirsty, or tired, your husband's body tells him when he needs a sexual release. Your husband's sexual desire is impacted by what's around him but is determined by biological factors, specifically the presence of testosterone in his body.

Immediately after sexual release, men are physically satisfied. But as their sexual clock ticks on, sexual thoughts become more prevalent, and they are more easily aroused. The physical need for sexual release intensifies as sperm builds in the testicles. The body continues to produce and store sperm, although sperm production fluctuates based on levels of testosterone and the frequency of sexual release."
http://www.focusonthefamily.com/marriage/sex_and_intimacy/understanding-your-husbands-sexual-needs/sex-is-a-physical-need.aspx

[Long Duck Dong]

.................................................. ..........
A man's sexuality has a tremendous impact on his emotional, marital and spiritual well-being.
by Dr. Juli Siattery

"One of the biggest differences between you (female) and your husband is the fact that he experiences sex as a legitimate physical need. Just as your body tells you when you're hungry, thirsty, or tired, your husband's body tells him when he needs a sexual release. Your husband's sexual desire is impacted by what's around him but is determined by biological factors, specifically the presence of testosterone in his body.

Immediately after sexual release, men are physically satisfied. But as their sexual clock ticks on, sexual thoughts become more prevalent, and they are more easily aroused. The physical need for sexual release intensifies as sperm builds in the testicles. The body continues to produce and store sperm, although sperm production fluctuates based on levels of testosterone and the frequency of sexual release."
http://www.focusonthefamily.com/marriage/sex_and_intimacy/understanding-your-husbands-sexual-needs/sex-is-a-physical-need.aspx




dr juli slattery is a christian psychologist that supports monogamy and male / female family units, and she is a strong advocate of focus on the family.... one of the groups that are firmly against LGBT rights...... shes referring to how christian females can be good christian wives to their husbands and be more understanding of their husbands needs for making love with their wife, within the monogamous marriage......

she uses the understanding that making love is a husbands way of showing love and support for his wife in their monogamous relationship.....

she also has the understanding and opinion that same sex activities are unnatural and immoral behievour..... so yeah there is no way in hell she is going to be referring to bisexuality or bisexual attractions, as shes opposed to them.....

lol.....as sources go for proving a point, you did a brilliant job in grabbing the first sources you could find with a google search, without even checking out whose stance you were endorsing...... ROFLMAO

[Gearbox]

Amusing to see the varied responses to the thread and, as usual, a simple question of WANT vs NEED was turned into a thread on the merits of monogamy. Let's just all agree that monogamy and non monogamy are personal choices and have not one thing to do with the actual question of WANT vs NEED.

Sex is not a NEED, and it doesn't matter how many times you continue to try and insist it is, it is a WANT. You will not die without sex, does it make Johnny a happier camper?? Yeah, but he's not gonna curl up and die cause he doesn't have sex. He will, however, die without water.

I need food, I want Burger King. I will not die if I do not have Burger King, I will die without food, period.

The way you all are trying to describe it as a need makes it come off as nothing more than an addiction. Monks who are celibate are not crazy, nymphomaniacs who jump every bone they can are on a mental disorder list.. now who's crazy??? Think about it and stop trying to rewrite definitions just for your own personal agenda. At least man up, or woman up in some cases, and admit it's a WANT that you just don't want to do without.
The thread is about bi's in a monogamous relationship and how some think same gender sex isn't breaking a monogamy rule. Want & need are personal choices just like monogamy and non-monogamy, so they are part of the OP's question whether he likes that or not.

Sex maybe just a want. So what? That doesn't make it less important to anybody. Truth, honesty, fauthfullnes, fidelity are not needs either, in your definition. But you bet your life you'll get many who claim they are. They'd also claim those things are more important 'needs' than sex. Just as the OP makes out. Which is JUST his opinion and nothing more.
We ALL make our own wants needs to suit our agenda.

[darkeyes]

The thread is about bi's in a monogamous relationship and how some think same gender sex isn't breaking a monogamy rule. Want & need are personal choices just like monogamy and non-monogamy, so they are part of the OP's question whether he likes that or not.

Sex maybe just a want. So what? That doesn't make it less important to anybody. Truth, honesty, fauthfullnes, fidelity are not needs either, in your definition. But you bet your life you'll get many who claim they are. They'd also claim those things are more important 'needs' than sex. Just as the OP makes out. Which is JUST his opinion and nothing more.
We ALL make our own wants needs to suit our agenda.
Is need a personal choice? Sometimes on things like sex, exercise, stimulation. learning, diet, social contact, good mental and physical health.. things which we can choose to not do or have but they are essential to human well being and so are a need.. many choose not to exercise and pay the price, and they choose not to be stimulated and enter either the stupor of the dull and/or fail to develop their skills and potential as human beings.. they choose not to learn and so pay the price by remaining ignorant, they choose or are unable to balance a diet and so their bodies pay the price by not having the goodness which a balanced diet provides, and many choose are are enforced into isolation and pay the price by not having the social contact that human beings invariably need.. we are a social species and need social contact to a greater or lesser degree..

Deprived of these things a human being's well being is out of balance and most will suffer emotional and/or physical harm.. he or she suffers emotional and physical stress. which may or may not end his or her life. Each of these things are things human beings need.. but they are things he or she can opt not to do.. as they can opt to deprive themselves of sex.. taken together these needs are all a part of the needs of human beings to be healthy and prosper. Deprivation of such things may in the short term not finish a human being off as does lack of food and even more quickly water, but in their way they are potentially as lethal in the longer term.. we are born with most of these things as needs and are to great degree instinct as well as natural capability.. as we grow we dull many of these needs or at least most of us do some or even all because that in part is how our world is.. especially in the prosperous and materialistic west. We are conditioned by factors such as environment, education, class and opportunity to develop or not develop those needs into things which will benefit ourselves but also to a great degree others.

We need sex to procreate but being sentient social animals we have over millennia developed it for social purposes. We have a sex drive.. an inbuilt need of sex for both procreation and the well being of ourselves and those around us.. yes it is often a want.. but it is far more than merely a want.. it is at times a basic and powerful need. why do we get randy? Because we want sex? Or because our bodies tell us we need it? Do we say to ourselves "I think I will get horny now?" Or does it happen because something within us tells us that we want and need sex?Why do we lie in bed alone and think the things we do which turn us on and feel driven to masturbate? Why do certain external stimuli so hot wire us that we are driven so desperately to fuck or masturbate? Sex is part of our genetic make up.. part of who we are and part of the needs of our species for our well being as well as for our continuation. For those that tell us that celibates such as monks or priests live quite happily with celibacy, I would point out the folly of this statement considering the events of the last few decades and revelations which cast doubt upon that.. many who are celibate no doubt do.. but obviously not all.. we can control and suppress the need.. we can control our need for food and water too as it happens.. but that doesn't mean it is any less of a need...

We are conditioned by millennia of propaganda from religion and state to be ashamed of of our desire for sex so society and religion can control us and condition us to their will and their view of how we should be. We are conditioned to think of it as a want that we must control rather a need that we can enjoy. Whether others think of it as a want I am not really fussed because in the end human beings will continue their search for sex in their own way and whether we think of it as want or need it won't go away. In part whether people are monogamous or not is hugely influenced by whether they believe sex to be a need or want and by the very conditioning which religion and society has been imposing on our species over these millennia and so is pertinent to the OP's original point. But such is the complexity of the human species that whether we are monogamous or not is dependant on much greater number of factors some of which are inherent in us and built in to our genes.. which of us is which can be debated and I doubt we can separate one from t'other as yet since we haven't found a monogamy gene yet.. and even then I doubt if it is that simple an issue.

[Long Duck Dong]

just a couple of things, fran....

sexual expression and interaction is a neuro chemical aspect of the human biological and psychological make up in a person that can be triggered by stimuli such as pheromones, aural / visual / audio / empathic triggers etc...... they can combine to create the * need * that you talk about, but in most cases, there is no actual need, there is interest and desire in various aspects but no need

what is the difference between a person with sexual addiction, sexual arousal, sexual interest and sexual dependence ? they are all varying aspects of people and none of them are a need.... but people will see them as a NEED as they feel things as a NEED when their mind and body create the chemical reaction that we can feel as a craving and a desire.....

much of the so called need for sex, is actually psychological in nature and its not hard to create the * illusion * in a persons mind that they can not function without sex, people do it all the time, but the simple truth is they desire a form of contact with others and so they create the * illusion * around it..... ironically people that can get too caught up in their own *illusion * can become sex addicts, not cos they are addicted to sex, but they are addicted to the chemical and psychological changes in the brain.....

spend some time in the BDSM communities or reading some of the studies on sex offenders and you will find that the majority of sex related behievour is not a need for sex, but something much different..... and I am saying those two areas as they are two of the best for revealing just how much of the interaction between people is not really a need for sex, but something different.....

ask yourself, how many times do you feel the desire for kates lips on your neck, her arms around you, her body pressed against you and some aggressive attention...and how many times do you say to kate, you want no emotion, no caring, no tenderness, no other interaction other than just sex, cold hard sex.... and no I am not looking for a answer to that, as its a personal aspect between you and kate.....

sex is nothing but a primal instinct, just look at nature, they share the primal instinct to mate according to a cycle, but the difference between humans and animals, is we add a lot more to the mix, blend it up then shape it to fit our own understandings of ourselves...... then we start to make excuses like we should not have to suppress our desires, we should not have to deny ourselves, we should not be restricted.... yet we do.... for what ever reason.... but much of the time, we blame others, when in fact its ourselves we should be blaming.....

sex is only a genetic make up of us in respects to the fact that the majority of the human race is required to reproduce in order to keep the human race going..... the rest is merely reasoning that people create in order to justify their actions and thoughts....in the same way that people get into relationships and marriages, yet fight against being in a relationship and marriage cos it * restricts * them from having the freedom to do as they please and treat people as they see fit......

[Jobelorocks]

I was going to give some more arguments here, then I realized it is useless. Repeating myself to someone who keeps repeating themselves is going nowhere.

[darkeyes]

Much of your argument Duckie can be used to describe need.. certain chemicals come to the fore and tell us we want sex arguably it is our body telling us we need sex... u dont have to be a sex addict for an overwhelming need for sex to take us... and at times for me, and others it does become overwhelming most of the time even if we can control it and it is right that we should.. dismiss what we feel as need if u wish thats up to u.. most of the time sex we think of as want... whether it is or not or an underlying part of our make up as animals is arguable at the very least. When I want sex I want it... maybe it is less than need.. certainly it less than desperate need.. but it is my body telling me that it wants it, and I would argue it is my body telling me that it needs it.. I dont have to give into it but any more than when my body is hungry I need to give into that chicken leg lying on the plate next to me... u can argue the opposite if u like I really am not fussed in the least... but even if it is normally just want.. there are times when it is far more than want and that u and Jobe and others dismiss completely. there is no consensus on the issue.. maybe there never shall be.. but I argue that as human beings the vast majority of us need interaction with our own kind and part of that interaction is sex. Not with everyone or just anyone but it is a basic need.. not just a want...and not just for procreation. It is part of us and needed for our well being.

And Jobe.. if u believe all we are doing is repeating the same arguments over and over I suggest that u look to yourself on that score... the arguments on both sides has moved on somewhat since u made any new or telling contribution to it worth considering.

[Gearbox]

@Darkeyes - If the agenda is a choice, then so is the need: I realy am craving a cream cake right now. I WANT a cake. If I am to fulfill that want, I NEED a cake.:)
If the agenda is to diet then the need changes from fullfilment to deprivation. Same thing with sex and survival etc. We just can't choose the exsistance of the things we chose to fulfill or deny, such as sexual urges, food cravings, feelings etc. They are pretty much there without our aproval.

Can't agree more about propaganda of religion towards sex and sexuality. BUT there's just as much propaganda from SOME monogamists. SOME people like the OP, whom has remarkably simililar views as LDD that some could confuse them for being the same person...:rolleyes:...have VERY negative views of sex. They try to convince others how unimportant sex is, yet make a big fuss if their partner fucks around. It's a matter of 'trust' then. But just as neural pathways deal with sex, they deal with betrayal too, so it's all just an illussion. So may aswell just quit winging who's fucking who up the what in whose cloths and just enjoy the illussion while we can.:tongue:

[Long Duck Dong]

fran I am not dismissing it as I am not arguing for or against it...... I leave that for people like you.....so stop telling me I am dismissing anything......

my body consumes food, it doesn't need food, it needs vitamins, minerals, amino acids and other things, and I can decide what type of thing I consume in order to maintain my body.... as long as a person is getting the shit they need in their body, they are doing ok..... but the need to eat ??? lol explain a person with a tube in their stomach, cos they sure as hell are not eating.....

I do not need to smoke cigarettes, I would be healthy without them... but I choose to smoke and my mind believes it needs the chemicals that I draw into my body with every cig.... however my mind is acutely aware that the levels of chemicals in my body can not be sustained at the levels its become accustomed to, simply by walking down the road and breathing in all the exhaust fumes that cars and trucks spew out......

sex is the same, we can condition ourselves to believe that we *need * sex in order to be healthy and well..... and if that is the case, the people that are not having sex, must be totally fucked or they are some how faulty human beings cos they are not having sex....

people that are monks and / or celibate, are not always suppressing their sexual desires, sometimes they simply do not have them, are they faulty or fucked in the head too ???? or what about people that are hyper sexual people, that are attracted to sex only and nothing else, are they faulty human beings ???

much of your statement, fran, rests on your own understanding of your own life, interests and desires..... which is fine... except that is generally all you have to go on cos its all you know...... and that is where I am different to most people, as I spent most of my life learning about people and what makes me so different, so unique, so unusual.... and that is why I do not ram my opinion down peoples throats and call them naive etc..... cos I have learnt how people think and how they will always try to justify their own thinking and then try to imply that to everybody else.... and struggle when they can not apply it to some people, so they dismiss them as invalid aspects of a situation......

I want a cheese burger, doesn't mean I need one... I crave a cheese burger, doesn't mean I need one..... and if I go 3 weeks without food, its still not a cheese burger I need, its vitamins, minerals and amino acids I need, and my body and mind would not be screaming for a cheeseburger, it would be shutting down on me......

[tenni]

"lol.....as sources go for proving a point, you did a brilliant job in grabbing the first sources you could find with a google search, without even checking out whose stance you were endorsing...... ROFLMAO"

(above statement is circular logic)

Whether this doctor who wrote this is a Christian or not does not eliminate the scientific fact that sex(release) is a physiological need for sexual men whether solo or with a partner. I admit that it is not proven that some bisexual men need sexual release with both genders. It seems to have some validity from self disclosure by sexual bisexual men but not scientifically proven.

[Long Duck Dong]

"lol.....as sources go for proving a point, you did a brilliant job in grabbing the first sources you could find with a google search, without even checking out whose stance you were endorsing...... ROFLMAO"

(above statement is circular logic)

Whether this doctor who wrote this is a Christian or not does not eliminate the scientific fact that sex(release) is a need for sexual men whether solo or with a partner.

I suspect even asexuals probably masturbate.



you copied and pasted a quote from her... you never bothered to check what she actually said about a womans role in her marriage in regards to keeping the relationship sexually healthy.... her monogamous marriage.....

as for the part about the asexuals, think back to my asexuality thread and how you tried to use the aven site as part of your debate.....

I will copy and paste some from the site for you


I enjoy being sexual with my loving partner but I've never really felt driven to have sex with anyone else. Could I be asexual?
Most asexual people are capable of having sex, as with masturbation some asexuals find the experience of sex pleasurable. If you use sex as an expression of romantic or emotional attraction (love) rather than because you are driven to do so by a sex drive, then that need not contradict an asexual identity.
Just as sexual people can form asexual relationships, asexual people can participate in sexual relationships. If you're comfortable and happy with that then it's cause for celebration rather than a reason to doubt your 'asexual purity'.

[darkeyes]

@Darkeyes - If the agenda is a choice, then so is the need: I realy am craving a cream cake right now. I WANT a cake. If I am to fulfill that want, I NEED a cake.:)
If the agenda is to diet then the need changes from fullfilment to deprivation. Same thing with sex and survival etc. We just can't choose the exsistance of the things we chose to fulfill or deny, such as sexual urges, food cravings, feelings etc. They are pretty much there without our aproval.

Can't agree more about propaganda of religion towards sex and sexuality. BUT there's just as much propaganda from SOME monogamists. SOME people like the OP, whom has remarkably simililar views as LDD that some could confuse them for being the same person...:rolleyes:...have VERY negative views of sex. They try to convince others how unimportant sex is, yet make a big fuss if their partner fucks around. It's a matter of 'trust' then. But just as neural pathways deal with sex, they deal with betrayal too, so it's all just an illussion. So may aswell just quit winging who's fucking who up the what in whose cloths and just enjoy the illussion while we can.:tongue:
Gear..need isn't a choice.. whether to sate that need or not is the choice which in ur awkward and round about way is what u have said..

And Duckie.. I will tell u whatever I think u should be told.. as I have no doubt u will do to me... much of what we think is because of how we are.. not all.. and if u think all that I say and all that I think is simply and only because of what I am and what I feel then u know very little... u are not so unique.. most of us spend our lives learning about the world and what makes our species tick.. don't be such a bumptious, pompous, arrogant man by making yourself the only person who learns about human beings. We are all unique and learn lessons and you are no better and no worse than most but a little better and somewhat worse than others. You have your own view of the world as have we all.. it may well be unique to the world but no more than anyone elses.

[elian]

It isn't a question of ultimate right or wrong, what matters more is your relationship with your partner and how both of you view that relationship. If you are in a healthy relationship that is a good match for you then you don't feel threatened by the actions of your spouse.

[tall tale]

It isn't a question of ultimate right or wrong, what matters more is your relationship with your partner and how both of you view that relationship. If you are in a healthy relationship that is a good match for you then you don't feel threatened by the actions of your spouse.

That is so utterly fantastic that it is absurd.

[dick_pumper]

When I got married to my wife she wanted to be married Catholic, and I have no church affiliation so I didn't care. We had to go to a engaged encounters weekend and while there I told her the most important aspect of getting married was that there has to be a lot of sex. She said if all I want is sex then marry a hooker. I told her that it wasn't fucking, it was the intimacy that two spouses have by being together, and without sex you become roommates. Well sex increased and I was happy. But just after the honeymoon, sex dropped to once a month then as the years went by sex got less and less so that for our sex life is once a year. Well that is unacceptable to me and after confronting her of my desires she suggested I see the doctor to see why I wanted sex so much. I told her that if she doesn't want sex then fine, that is her choice but I was not going to not want it so I would just get it from outside the marriage. Of course she didn't like that and said she doesn't believe in cheating so I told her I just told you that if you are not going to want sex then I told you I am going to find it elsewhere and as I have told you, it is not cheating. I have not told her of my desires to be with other males, as I don't see what business is it of hers, as she decided she didn't want sex anymore so she has no rights to ask me shit. She has ruined this marriage. I was perfectly content to keep my interest in men buried and would have remained monogamous but now, I am ready to fuck anything on two legs. Although I want to do it safely of course.