Do You Think Monogamy is a greater challenge for bisexuals?

[SlimDandy]

Alright, enough of the BS, already!

I keep hearing and reading that bisexuals are just as challenged by monogamy, as everyone else. However, I say that's BS, because, we have a much larger taste palate when it comes to sex. For a guy who desires being with another guy, who is with a woman, is just gonna be missing something crucial that's a part of his natural desire to be with another man. A bisexual woman, who's with a guy, is just going to feel like there's a certain void in her life. Heterosexuals and homosexuals don't have to deal with this BS. Their taste palates are not as wide and it's easier for them to become satisfied having only one mate. However, for us, it's simply not that way, IMHO.

Wouldn't you agree?

Please respond, this is really bothering me.....

Is monogamy really easy for you?...I would think not!

[Howtobe]

Pretty newly out of the closet here, but I have no problem being with only my husband, but am struggling with my increased/uncovered palate.

Trying to figure out how to explain that part of it to my husband, who wants to understand but thinks that it's a cop-out.

How do I explain to him that it's not?

[SlimDandy]

Pretty newly out of the closet here, but I have no problem being with only my husband, but am struggling with my increased/uncovered palate.

Trying to figure out how to explain that part of it to my husband, who wants to understand but thinks that it's a cop-out.

How do I explain to him that it's not?

Thanks Howtobe,

At least one person is willing to tell the truth!

[NjbiGuy01]

abso-fucking-lutely !!!

[Ebonybifemme7]

Yeah I will admit it is tough not thinking about being with both at the same time. However if I married, I will only be dedicated to my spouse. At least that is the way I would want it to be. I would prefer an opened marriage.

[Diablo598]

I guess I am lucky, my girlfriend once told me that she understands that I may one day want to have sex with another man. She said that that is something she cannot provide me. She tries really hard by fingering my asshole when she is giving me a blow job, and by fucking my ass with a nice dildo at other times. She understands that I want to taste my own cum and she realizes that I one of these days will have sex with another guy. All that she asks is that I have safe sex with another guy. Do I plan on following through with my desire to have sex with a guy, the answer is yes and will I have safe sex with him YES.

So I feel like I am planning on cheating on her by doing this the answer is no, as long as I follow the one thing she asked and that is that I do not go bareback.

[Long Duck Dong]

I think its a individual aspect that is unique to each person, regardless of sexuality.... cos poly natured non bisexuals struggle with monogamy the same as a poly natured bisexual..... and I say that cos its not always about a attraction to the same gender.... some poly bisexuals have posted in the site that they have multiple same and opposite gender partners cos that works for them ( yet they are in a relationship with (a) long term partner/s as well ), others have posted that they are bisexual and monogamous......

non bisexuals may not have to deal with the dual gender attraction but they face the same issues in relationships as bisexuals, if their partners are not interested in being in a open / poly relationship.... cos monogamy is a type of relationship and so is open / relationships, the gender attraction is a separate issue even tho it can become a aspect of dealing with monogamy and seeking a open / poly relationship....

[tenni]

There seems to be a very wide range of bisexuality and how it plays out in life. I think that to compare bisexuals and monosexuals (hetero and gay) is as appropriate as comparing apples and oranges. For those that fall closer to the scale of extremes on the kinsey scale seem to report less difficulty in being monogamous to either men or women depending which end of the Kinsey scale. Not all though. The fluidity aspect of sexual attraction for both genders is another factor. Some of us feel this attraction for both with more change than others. If we look at our lives as being seventy plus and how a person's attraction may vary over that time to one same gender, the opposite or both genders at the same time etc., there may be difficulty in being monogamous.

I do not believe that bisexuals should expect themselves to be monogamous as a core position and neither should their partner expect it of a bisexual. If it happens ok. If it doesn't, well that doesn't mean the bisexual has rejected the monosexual or bisexual.

[falcondfw]

I wasn't going to respond, but then i read Tenni's last line.
Personally, I am fine either way. Monogamous or not. But this:

"If it doesn't, well that doesn't mean the bisexual has rejected the monosexual or bisexual."

I feel is CRUCIAL. It is not about rejecting anyone in a poly relationship and this factor is so hard for many people to understand.
It is imperative, if the relationship with the non-poly partner is to continue, that this point become crystal clear to them. However it is done. They must feel secure enough in the relationship to trust their partner enough to allow the freedom and still know the partner will take every precaution to protect them and will come back home to them.

Way to put your finger on it, Tenni.

[Annika L]

Thanks Howtobe,

At least one person is willing to tell the truth!

I'm pretty uncomfortable with your implication that if people don't agree with you then they aren't telling the truth...that's no way to seek knowledge or to hold a debate.

I believe there are people who are natural/good with monogamy and there are those who aren't...and ne'er the twain should mix...oh yeah, and you should somehow figure out which kind you are before you get into a monogamous relationship. I don't know to what extent a person's ability to handle monogamy is influenced by bisexuality, but I've come to the conclusion that bisexuality has little to do with it in my case.

I have a female partner with whom I've been monogamous for 26 years...and have slowly found monogamy more and more difficult to deal with. But this isn't because I am bisexual. If that was the case, then it would only (or at least primarily) be men who are drawing my attention and desires, since that's what I'm lacking...but this isn't the case.

You talk about taste palates. Mine is for intimacy, not cock, pussy, or both...whenever I achieve a certain degree of intimacy with a person, I have a strong urge to deepen that into a physical component...regardless of the physical bits of that person. I just want *more* of that person *whoever* they are. Of course as a bisexual I do have taste for contact with both men and women, and yes, I strongly feel the lack of one of those components in my life. But that lack doesn't lead me to want to go out a find a guy to fuck (thus jeopardizing my monogamy). It's when I meet a guy with whom I really *connect*...and we start to become emotionally intimate...damn it, *that* is when it gets difficult for me. But you know what? I have the *exact* same difficulty when I meet a woman with whom I really connect, and we start to become emotionally intimate.

Now it would be ridiculous to believe that most people are like me...there's *way* too much evidence to the contrary. But based on my own little n = 1, I would say that my bisexual component does not add difficulty to the already-difficult issue of monogamy...if I was gay or straight, I believe I would be having the exact same issue. You could claim I'd be having it with fewer people (only the men or only the women)...but I don't think that eliminating the men or the women would make monogamy significantly easier for me. Monogamy simply doesn't feel natural to me (although I recognize and respect that it does feel very natural to many, including many bisexuals). So again, for *me* I don't think my sexuality aggravates the monogamy issue...and I suspect and hypothesize that this is true for more bisexuals than are aware of it...it's just easier for us than it is for others to use our sexuality as a rationale.

So I disagree with you. Obviously that means I'm just not willing to tell the truth.

[SlimDandy]

abso-fucking-lutely !!!

Couldn't have stated it better myself! LOL

[SlimDandy]

I'm pretty uncomfortable with your implication that if people don't agree with you then they aren't telling the truth...that's no way to seek knowledge or to hold a debate.

I believe there are people who are natural/good with monogamy and there are those who aren't...and ne'er the twain should mix...oh yeah, and you should somehow figure out which kind you are before you get into a monogamous relationship. I don't know to what extent a person's ability to handle monogamy is influenced by bisexuality, but I've come to the conclusion that bisexuality has little to do with it in my case.

I have a female partner with whom I've been monogamous for 26 years...and have slowly found monogamy more and more difficult to deal with. But this isn't because I am bisexual. If that was the case, then it would only (or at least primarily) be men who are drawing my attention and desires, since that's what I'm lacking...but this isn't the case.

You talk about taste palates. Mine is for intimacy, not cock, pussy, or both...whenever I achieve a certain degree of intimacy with a person, I have a strong urge to deepen that into a physical component...regardless of the physical bits of that person. I just want *more* of that person *whoever* they are. Of course as a bisexual I do have taste for contact with both men and women, and yes, I strongly feel the lack of one of those components in my life. But that lack doesn't lead me to want to go out a find a guy to fuck (thus jeopardizing my monogamy). It's when I meet a guy with whom I really *connect*...and we start to become emotionally intimate...damn it, *that* is when it gets difficult for me. But you know what? I have the *exact* same difficulty when I meet a woman with whom I really connect, and we start to become emotionally intimate.

Now it would be ridiculous to believe that most people are like me...there's *way* too much evidence to the contrary. But based on my own little n = 1, I would say that my bisexual component does not add difficulty to the already-difficult issue of monogamy...if I was gay or straight, I believe I would be having the exact same issue. You could claim I'd be having it with fewer people (only the men or only the women)...but I don't think that eliminating the men or the women would make monogamy significantly easier for me. Monogamy simply doesn't feel natural to me (although I recognize and respect that it does feel very natural to many, including many bisexuals). So again, for *me* I don't think my sexuality aggravates the monogamy issue...and I suspect and hypothesize that this is true for more bisexuals than are aware of it...it's just easier for us than it is for others to use our sexuality as a rationale.

So I disagree with you. Obviously that means I'm just not willing to tell the truth.


Hi there Annika!

Actually, the statement about telling the truth, was really geared towards enticing more of us to participate and contribute to this thread, by expressing their own true feelings, just as you have done. Therefore, to that extent, mission complete. That said, I truly do believe that your opinion is no less valid than anyone else's, and I most certainly do appreciate your rather assertive, intelligent, and stark honesty concerning the subject.

It's opinions like yours, that I've been reading so much about here lately! I really would like to hear that more bisexuals like you exist, because most bisexuals of which I'm aware (mostly males, unfortunately), seem to have this irrepressible propensity to waffle between the two sexes, despite their claim of "monogamy" to their partners.

As for me personally, I find it quite sickening to lie to my mate, with whom I've sworn to maintain a monogamous relationship. I therefore, tend to dissolve the relationsip before I finally quench my sexual thirst. Afterwhich, I usually feel quilty and have to ask myself, why do I always have to ruin things. I've had three beautiful mates, that I've lost, all due to my conscience that forbids me to lie!

Thank you for your wonderful contribution, Annika!

I just luv ya for your honesty! :love:

PS.

I think you actually told the truth, afterall! ;)

[biwilliams]

Honestly, it depends upon the person. My husband and I are both bi, but we're happy with each other. We don't go out looking for anyone else to have sex with. So yes some bisexuals can be monogamous some cannot. It depends entirely upon how someone wants to live their life. Would I let my husband go out and have fun with another man? Yes I would if he desired it, just as he would if I wanted to go out and be with a woman.

[MyTimeNow]

It is a good point, but it all really comes down to the individual person and their convictions, beliefs, and self control. While bisexuals do have more to choose from over heteros and gays, it's all up to the individual person.

I've always admitted to looking, which everyone does whether they admit it or not. Sometimes, that's just enough. Some fantasize. I've never been in a relationship with a man (and have no desire to ever be), but speaking from my numerous relationships with women, it varies as far as having a wandering eye. There have been times I've cheated, been cheated on, and remained loyal, despite great opportunities to do otherwise. It's an individual's choice if they choose to be monogamous or not, whether they have the two sex option or not.

Is monogamy easy? No, not for everyone. For some, it is. For me personally, it has been both easy at times and also not so easy. Each relationship I've been in was different than the next. I chose to act accordingly each time. I'm not proud of certain things I've done while in relationships nor have I felt great on what choices my then partners have made. Largely, I made the choice to be monogamous in most of them, despite temptations. Whether it's wrong or right for each person and each relationship is not for anyone to determine but the parties involved. Doesn't matter if the palate is larger to choose from.

When I made my decision to seek out another guy to experiment with sexually a few years back, I was in a relationship I wasn't overly happy in (why I chose to stay in that relationship is no one's business but my own). Previously, I was in relationships and had the chance to not only fool around with a guy or two, but also had my choice of women, but I declined each chance. It's an individual's choice at the end of the day. For some it's easier then it for others. I wouldn't say it's easy for everyone, but it can be easy to say no for some.

[Rhevan]

To the OP's question... NO. It's not a greater challenge, monogamy has not one thing to do with sexuality and more to do with your own sense of commitment. There have been times I've been monogamous and times I've been poly, times I cheated, times I've been cheated on.... but it wasn't anything to do with sexuality... just sex. Hope you can see that point, it's between the people in a relationship to decide and if someone can't be monogamous they should not seek a monogamous relationship, it's doomed to fail. :2cents:

Rhevan

[darkeyes]

It is a good point, but it all really comes down to the individual person and their convictions, beliefs, and self control. While bisexuals do have more to choose from over heteros and gays, it's all up to the individual person.

I've always admitted to looking, which everyone does whether they admit it or not. Sometimes, that's just enough. Some fantasize. I've never been in a relationship with a man (and have no desire to ever be), but speaking from my numerous relationships with women, it varies as far as having a wandering eye. There have been times I've cheated, been cheated on, and remained loyal, despite great opportunities to do otherwise. It's an individual's choice if they choose to be monogamous or not, whether they have the two sex option or not.

Is monogamy easy? No, not for everyone. For some, it is. For me personally, it has been both easy at times and also not so easy. Each relationship I've been in was different than the next. I chose to act accordingly each time. I'm not proud of certain things I've done while in relationships nor have I felt great on what choices my then partners have made. Largely, I made the choice to be monogamous in most of them, despite temptations. Whether it's wrong or right for each person and each relationship is not for anyone to determine but the parties involved. Doesn't matter if the palate is larger to choose from.

When I made my decision to seek out another guy to experiment with sexually a few years back, I was in a relationship I wasn't overly happy in (why I chose to stay in that relationship is no one's business but my own). Previously, I was in relationships and had the chance to not only fool around with a guy or two, but also had my choice of women, but I declined each chance. It's an individual's choice at the end of the day. For some it's easier then it for others. I wouldn't say it's easy for everyone, but it can be easy to say no for some.
It is much too simplistic to say that bisexuals have a wider palate... they have in theory at least double the numbers to choose from but such is the variety within human sexuality, and in some ways bisexuality in particular that often with what tenni calls monosexuals there is more of a wider palate within their number than among many bisexuals.. men in particular for many are intested not in bisexuality per se but a suck and a wank at most... they are unable to become emotionally involved with their own gender.. many of both genders have very limited taste within and so the wide palate becomes somewhat narrower.. it is a theoretical palate nothing more... bisexuals are like those of any other sexuality.. they like what and who they like and very often both are very limited likes indeed.

Of course in some ways the same can be said of homosexuals and heterosexuals, but being homosexual or heterosexual they tend invest much more into relationships with whichever gender is their want than many bisexuals do or can.. not all bisexuals, but many... in particular male bisexuals. Their sexual practices too are usually although not always more varied and about the entire sexual experience rather than just a wank or a suck.. this isnt a criticism of those who just want that.. good luck to them, but it is a narrowing of the sexual palate is it not? And negates much of the claimed wideness of which the op speaks..

Personal taste in sexual partners also limits the palate in all sexualities as it does what we like to eat Food I mean not u kn wot!!;))... we are far too complex beings to say that one sexuality has a wider palate simply because its potential choice is greater than others... there are other considerations. Within each of us there is that little thing which tells us who we fancy and who we don't, who we will shag and who we shan't and greater numbers of potential lays or sucks or wanks is not enough to explain any of it... because we're so very different as sexual beings, not simply gay or lessie or hetero or bisexual beings. My personal taste in women is wide ranging one.. far wider than a number of the bisexual woman I know, tho not all, and a helluva lot wider than some bisexual guys. I have preferences but everyone has those... but like everyone it is not limitless and neither is it to bisexuals... trust me.. it is not easier to be satisfied with just one mate... if your argument held water however, it would be just as easy to say it was easier for bisexuals to be just as satisfied with just 2 but that we know is not the case, although some are...but it is also true that many are with just one... What we do and are prepared to do and have done widens our "sexual palate" or it narrows it very often, very substantially...

Whether we wish to be monogamous or not resides within each of us..what we are prepared to do to meet how we feel differs in each of us.. it is human thing. I don't dismiss the possibility, even likelihood that many bisexuals are less comfortable with monogamy.. I just think there are too many unknown factors for us to say that for certain for monosexuals are themselves such complex beings it is not a claim which can be made with certainty... too many differences between human beings of all sexualities. The fact that human beings of all sexualities find it so difficult to stay faithful to a single person no matter what their sexuality is should tell us that. That many do however also should tell us that although the extent to which people are mongomaous in reality is always very questionable when we consider that fidelity or rather lack of it often creates such dishonesty in human beings

.And as they struggle to understand what the hell is going on and why they are the way they are they question and often attempt to justify themselves and their actions as human beings. they do it with a great deal of navel gazing.. on the occasions I cheated I did so because I fancied people and wanted to fuck them while in relationships of one kind or t'other ... twice because I fell in love and wanted to fuck them.... stick to that and we get to more of the truth than talk of wider palates and greater choice and false justifications... at least until we know wtf human sexuality is about. I find monogamy restricting and often frustrating... but tho I'm lesbian that doesn't mean I am any more prone to wanting or not wanting monogamy than any bisexual... we are the same.. but we are different... all of us.

[void()]

No, I don't find it any more or less difficult. Lots of my views seem to mirror Annika's. I especially concur about intimacy.

I think Annika and I would probably find a great deal of common ground. Who knows just what might happen after meeting for coffee? ;) I might even risk castration, or impending death to enjoy some frolicking if allowed. *chuckles*

Apologies Annika. Honestly find you rather attractive as a person. Don't want that being uncomfortable as I'm mostly harmless like Author Dent. But it was something needing said. Not that I plan running away from my Lady. Ah, the crux ... personal responsibility. Wonder how many more refrains it'll need.

[ErosUrge]

Alright, enough of the BS, already!

I keep hearing and reading that bisexuals are just as challenged by monogamy, as everyone else. However, I say that's BS, because, we have a much larger taste palate when it comes to sex. For a guy who desires being with another guy, who is with a woman, is just gonna be missing something crucial that's a part of his natural desire to be with another man. A bisexual woman, who's with a guy, is just going to feel like there's a certain void in her life. Heterosexuals and homosexuals don't have to deal with this BS. Their taste palates are not as wide and it's easier for them to become satisfied having only one mate. However, for us, it's simply not that way, IMHO.

Wouldn't you agree?

Please respond, this is really bothering me.....

Is monogamy really easy for you?...I would think not!


I answered and covered this in detail in your other post; JUST WONDERING....

[SlimDandy]

I answered and covered this in detail in your other post; JUST WONDERING....

Thanks, ErosUrge!

For some reason, the other post was invisible to most members...

[Jobelorocks]

I know that this issue probably varies from person to person so I will speak only for myself. Before my husband I had only been in monogamous relationships. My husband and I were monogamous before we were married and for about a year into our marriage. I never had any big issues with being monogamous. My husband and I are very religious so when we got married I thought to myself, "Well, that is the end of my experimenting days." Luckily when I came out to my husband, shortly after I came to terms that I was really a bisexual, he was tremendously supportive and we decided to start swinging. I do have to say though, although I would want to be with a woman here and there, I would have no problem going back to monogamy. I know he would do the same for me. I prefer being non-monogamous, but it isn't that big of deal for me.

[caster12]

I haven't needed to try momogamy yet, but my new found like will be tough to set aside if need be, I would imagine.

[Annika L]

No, I don't find it any more or less difficult. Lots of my views seem to mirror Annika's. I especially concur about intimacy.

I think Annika and I would probably find a great deal of common ground. Who knows just what might happen after meeting for coffee? ;) I might even risk castration, or impending death to enjoy some frolicking if allowed. *chuckles*

Apologies Annika. Honestly find you rather attractive as a person. Don't want that being uncomfortable as I'm mostly harmless like Author Dent. But it was something needing said. Not that I plan running away from my Lady. Ah, the crux ... personal responsibility. Wonder how many more refrains it'll need.

How sweet, void...you have me smiling and blushing! The burning in my cheeks is slightly uncomfortable, but nothing else about it is. For the record, I like you too.

But please do not risk castration or death on my part...glad to hear you and your Lady are solid, like myself and my own.

If I (or we) ever plan to pass through WV again (and I hope to do so one day...because I left a lamp there last time I was there, and I'd like it back eventually), I'll let you know, and we can try for the coffee.

[Annika L]

Hi there Annika!

Actually, the statement about telling the truth, was really geared towards enticing more of us to participate and contribute to this thread, by expressing their own true feelings, just as you have done. Therefore, to that extent, mission complete. That said, I truly do believe that your opinion is no less valid than anyone else's, and I most certainly do appreciate your rather assertive, intelligent, and stark honesty concerning the subject.

It's opinions like yours, that I've been reading so much about here lately! I really would like to hear that more bisexuals like you exist, because most bisexuals of which I'm aware (mostly males, unfortunately), seem to have this irrepressible propensity to waffle between the two sexes, despite their claim of "monogamy" to their partners.

As for me personally, I find it quite sickening to lie to my mate, with whom I've sworn to maintain a monogamous relationship. I therefore, tend to dissolve the relationsip before I finally quench my sexual thirst. Afterwhich, I usually feel quilty and have to ask myself, why do I always have to ruin things. I've had three beautiful mates, that I've lost, all due to my conscience that forbids me to lie!

Thank you for your wonderful contribution, Annika!

I just luv ya for your honesty! :love:

PS.

I think you actually told the truth, afterall! ;)

Well I call that downright civil! More than, even. Slim, you're ok in my book. :tongue:

I'm confused about the "personally" part of your post, if you don't mind clarifying. What I *think* I'm hearing is that you are currently in a monogamous partnership with someone (call this person Person D). And there have been three previous such relationships? (say with Persons A, B, and C?) And you violated your monogamy agreements with A, B, and C...but couldn't lie to them about it, so broke up with them...and that's why those relationships ended?

But I might also be hearing that you are talking about a single monogamous partnership with A...and have come close to sex with B, C, and D, but couldn't do it, because you couldn't stand to lie to A...and then you feel guilty toward B, C, and D for ending what might otherwise have been nice relationships?

Or am I missing you entirely, and it's something else? Sorry if I'm being obtuse.

Also, I do think that if you're not seeing more bisexuals "like me" (meaning successfully maintaining a monogamous commitment, despite struggling) here...it may have more to do with the nature of the site, and less to do with the number of such bisexuals. This site has a large function as a hookup site...so it attracts people who are single, poly, or are at least considering breaking their monogamy commitment. On sites that are explicitly *communities* and NOT hookup sites, I've found that a much larger percentage of bisexuals are in my (our?) position.

[SlimDandy]

Well I call that downright civil! More than, even. Slim, you're ok in my book. :tongue:

I'm confused about the "personally" part of your post, if you don't mind clarifying. What I *think* I'm hearing is that you are currently in a monogamous partnership with someone (call this person Person D). And there have been three previous such relationships? (say with Persons A, B, and C?) And you violated your monogamy agreements with A, B, and C...but couldn't lie to them about it, so broke up with them...and that's why those relationships ended?

But I might also be hearing that you are talking about a single monogamous partnership with A...and have come close to sex with B, C, and D, but couldn't do it, because you couldn't stand to lie to A...and then you feel guilty toward B, C, and D for ending what might otherwise have been nice relationships?

Or am I missing you entirely, and it's something else? Sorry if I'm being obtuse.

Also, I do think that if you're not seeing more bisexuals "like me" (meaning successfully maintaining a monogamous commitment, despite struggling) here...it may have more to do with the nature of the site, and less to do with the number of such bisexuals. This site has a large function as a hookup site...so it attracts people who are single, poly, or are at least considering breaking their monogamy commitment. On sites that are explicitly *communities* and NOT hookup sites, I've found that a much larger percentage of bisexuals are in my (our?) position.


I just broke up with the most loving gf of my life, all because of the craving I had for a guy that I met at the library, just six weeks ago. I kept trying to stop thinking and fantasizing about him. Then finally, I just admitted it to my gf that I was really craving this guy, and that I wanted to be with him. She then went absolutely berserk! She started smacking me in the face after every other profane word she repeatedly used in each sentence. I have never even seen her really get angry before, after almost two years of knowing her, and a year and a half of living together. I once mentioned to her that I was bisexual, but she acted like I didn't saying anything at all. She just shrugged her shoulders like it was no big deal. Then suddenly, after I mention it again with a potential sexual partner in mind of my same sex, she goes off and starts acting like she's crazy. In fact, she was so mad, that she picked up a butcher's knife in the kitchen, and just as quickly as she picked it up, she threw it back down!

Not knowing what to expect next, I just left. I called up my friend and we met at a bar. We then went to his house where I spent the night. I felt so good being with him, that I absolutely had no regrets at that point in time. However, now that I've had time to give the situation the full 20/20 perspective, I realize that there's this pattern that I have of committing to a monogamous relationship at first, but then always regretting it later. I now feel as though I'm just not a monogamous person by nature. I always fool myself into thinking that I can remain monogamous, but I just can't. I just love being with guys way too much. The same thing happens when I commit to a guy. Then I begin craving women. Seems the most I can last, is just about a year or so. Then the demons begin to haunt me. I start noticing other people more. Then the erection filled fantasies begin. Next thing you know, I can't sleep. Then I become irritable...It's just crazy! I think that bisexuality is perhaps, just a double-edged sword...

[void()]

How sweet, void...you have me smiling and blushing! The burning in my cheeks is slightly uncomfortable, but nothing else about it is. For the record, I like you too.

But please do not risk castration or death on my part...glad to hear you and your Lady are solid, like myself and my own.

If I (or we) ever plan to pass through WV again (and I hope to do so one day...because I left a lamp there last time I was there, and I'd like it back eventually), I'll let you know, and we can try for the coffee.

Sounds like a plan for sure. Take you out to our local greasy spoon. Greasy spoons are always best places for coffee and maybe a bite to eat. I know they make excellent pancakes drowned in gravy. :) We have always enjoyed the food there without issue. Good down home cooking in a diner is always a good treat for friends.

As to that lamp, I'm still shining it about looking for honest men. *chuckles* :) Will gladly return it if in my power, even if not will send energy toward your attainment of it.

[Annika L]

I just broke up with the most loving gf of my life, all because of the craving I had for a guy that I met at the library, just six weeks ago. I kept trying to stop thinking and fantasizing about him. Then finally, I just admitted it to my gf that I was really craving this guy, and that I wanted to be with him. She then went absolutely berserk! She started smacking me in the face after every other profane word she repeatedly used in each sentence. I have never even seen her really get angry before, after almost two years of knowing her, and a year and a half of living together. I once mentioned to her that I was bisexual, but she acted like I didn't saying anything at all. She just shrugged her shoulders like it was no big deal. Then suddenly, after I mention it again with a potential sexual partner in mind of my same sex, she goes off and starts acting like she's crazy. In fact, she was so mad, that she picked up a butcher's knife in the kitchen, and just as quickly as she picked it up, she threw it back down!

Not knowing what to expect next, I just left. I called up my friend and we met at a bar. We then went to his house where I spent the night. I felt so good being with him, that I absolutely had no regrets at that point in time. However, now that I've had time to give the situation the full 20/20 perspective, I realize that there's this pattern that I have of committing to a monogamous relationship at first, but then always regretting it later. I now feel as though I'm just not a monogamous person by nature. I always fool myself into thinking that I can remain monogamous, but I just can't. I just love being with guys way too much. The same thing happens when I commit to a guy. Then I begin craving women. Seems the most I can last, is just about a year or so. Then the demons begin to haunt me. I start noticing other people more. Then the erection filled fantasies begin. Next thing you know, I can't sleep. Then I become irritable...It's just crazy! I think that bisexuality is perhaps, just a double-edged sword...

Wow. I am so sorry that you had to go through this. *hugs* ...even more so if it's happened multiple times (or if comparable things have). You were honest with her...you told her you were bisexual...were you actually asking for permission to go have sex with this guy, or were you just confessing the desire for him? (Either way, I presume you weren't saying, "hey, I'm gonna go sleep with this guy".) If you were asking permission, I could see it being awkward or annoying for her...you're in a monogamous relationship...forget the sex of the target: you're suddenly asking to be able to have sex outside that relationship. But to wig out violently? No, not cool, not appropriate. BUT if you were just confessing a desire, and she wigs out...holy hell, man...*this* is how she responds to free flow of information?? I would advise you to be grateful that the relationship is ended...one way or the other, she was not the right person for you.

Your "double-edged sword" metaphor is one I've used myself, often, and on this site (*smile* so obviously, I agree). It isn't for people who are ok with not even *trying* to be monogamous (e.g., are fine with open relationships)...but it is for me. I don't think I could manage a fully open relationship. But I also question my ability to handle monogamy in the longterm (well...the *really* longterm).

What saves me and makes my life SO much easier is the fact that my partner also identifies as bisexual and is dealing with the same issues...and we talk about it, and can try to solve the problem together. Even if she wasn't actually bisexual, I think it is the fact that we can talk and work together that keeps me sane. I am free to share fantasies and desires with her and vice versa. It is also helpful to me that she doesn't object to my forming emotional intimacies with others (it's not like I could help it anyway...I'm just the sort of person who finds herself getting close to people...and she respects and even admires that)...she trusts me to stay within the physical boundaries we agreed to long ago, and so far I've been worthy of that trust.

So trust and openness to communication are what I wish for you in your next relationship...and preferably that your next partner be bisexual...or at least queer-friendly. But if I were in your position, I would be getting a feel of any potential partner's queer-friendliness before I would even consider committing to them, monogamously or otherwise.

[Gearbox]

Seems the most I can last, is just about a year or so. Then the demons begin to haunt me. I start noticing other people more. Then the erection filled fantasies begin. Next thing you know, I can't sleep. Then I become irritable...It's just crazy! I think that bisexuality is perhaps, just a double-edged sword...
I think your perfectly natural and your impulses are only 'demons' when you don't appreciate that. Humans are not monogamous by nature. It takes self denial, sacrifice and will power to maintain a monog relationship. What for? So you pretend to be somebody your not?:confused:
"Hey honey I'd realy like to fuck XXXXX all shapes and angles today, and I'm going crazy in lust for it!". "Yup! Fight that demon honey! It will break us up. Oh I love you btw!".:rolleyes:

Hope your ok after that disturbing breakup?

[NakedInSeattle]

Not only a challenge but impossible. How the hell can one be monogamous and be bi?. The very definition says you like both genders! That means you have sex with at least 2 people...sheeeesh! Monogamy means ONE.

[darkeyes]

Not only a challenge but impossible. How the hell can one be monogamous and be bi?. The very definition says you like both genders! That means you have sex with at least 2 people...sheeeesh! Monogamy means ONE.
I like both genders.. don't like the idea of fucking both genders but I like them both... in different ways.. sexually I am attracted to one gender..my own. My partner, like many bisexual people, men and women are attracted to and potentially could and would fuck both people of either gender... that she chooses not to, as do many others is how she and they are... it does not make she or they any less bisexual, merely that they have decided in their wisdom in accord with how they feel and with what they believe to live in a heterosexual or homosexual relationship with one person. They remain bisexual, just not actively so... or are u saying they are not bisexual? Is a heterosexual or homosexual any less homo or heterosexual for putting the boat out with all and sundry within their preferred gender rather than just sticking to one person?

Being bisexual doesn't mean u have to have sex with both genders, It means u are sexually attracted to them and neither does having sex with at least two people make us bisexual either.. doesn't a lot rather depend on the gender of the 2? It isn't impossible at all to be bisexual and monogamous.. I'm not saying it is easy for it isnt easy for me and I am anything but bisexual...but am saying many bisexuals like many of any other sexuality do manage it...

[SlimDandy]

I like both genders.. don't like the idea of fucking both genders but I like them both... in different ways.. sexually I am attracted to one gender..my own. My partner, like many bisexual people, men and women are attracted to and potentially could and would fuck both people of either gender... that she chooses not to, as do many others is how she and they are... it does not make she or they any less bisexual, merely that they have decided in their wisdom in accord with how they feel and with what they believe to live in a heterosexual or homosexual relationship with one person. They remain bisexual, just not actively so... or are u saying they are not bisexual? Is a heterosexual or homosexual any less homo or heterosexual for putting the boat out with all and sundry within their preferred gender rather than just sticking to one person?

Being bisexual doesn't mean u have to have sex with both genders, It means u are sexually attracted to them and neither does having sex with at least two people make us bisexual either.. doesn't a lot rather depend on the gender of the 2? It isn't impossible at all to be bisexual and monogamous.. I'm not saying it is easy for it isnt easy for me and I am anything but bisexual...but am saying many bisexuals like many of any other sexuality do manage it...

Hey there darkeyes!

Therefore, you've merely graced us with your most radiant presence. Well, I appreciate your support and understanding...

Luv ya! :love:

[tenni]

I think that this is a question without one single answer for all bisexuals. Rhevan's post struck me as so definite that sexuality and monogamy are not linked in her mind. I could not disagree any more stronger. For some of us it is as Rhevan posts but for others their need for sex with both genders could not be clearer and more definite than Rhevan's opinion that sexuality is not linked to monogamy.

I hope that as bisexuals that we accept the differences amongst us. Tolerance is first and best practiced at home ;) (this website) I would hope that those who "can be" monogamous do not cast disgust on those of us who "can not" deal with monogamy and be happy.

[darkeyes]

Hey there darkeyes!

Therefore, you've merely graced us with your most radiant presence. Well, I appreciate your support and understanding...

Luv ya! :love:
Grace and understanding? Radiant presence? Smoothie *laffs*.

When u have lived and been something yourself, u live with, are married to and love one who still is that something, when a good third ofya m8s are that something and ya sister, it kind of gives u an understanding dontcha think?:)

[daxs2009]

my has never really liked sex so thats why its ok here

[cherry88]

It takes self denial, sacrifice and will power to maintain a monog relationship. What for? So you pretend to be somebody your not?

hey so i understand this isnt exactly what you were referring to here.. and i agree that these things arent really 'demons' at all they are just what someone wants.... but just becuase ive been thinking about this alot i wanted to ask this since it was mentioned.. so just to play devils advocate i mean, i mean it takes sacrifice on all levels to maintain any relationship... monagamous or not right?

i mean like i might want to eat 12 cupcakes every day, or smoke cigarettes in bed, or paint the bathroom green, or any number of things and there could be a million reasons why i dont --- either to benefit myself or people i care about. i think noone on earth ever truly gets to do -every- single thing they want all the time.. relationships are about respecting what both people need on almost every level so why shouldnt sexuality be included in that. isnt demanding to do every single thing you want sexually regardless of what your partner wants or how they feel, just as inconsiderate as smoking in front of someone with asthma or eating cupcakes around a diabetic? or painting the bathroom a color that your partner told you they totally hate? isnt being inconsiderate being inconsiderate, no matter what area of life it happens in?

yeah i might really wanna smoke in bed but maybe my partner has asthma. am i gonna just say 'fuck you honey i gotta be me i dont care if you can breathe' no noone would say that. not becuase you are limiting yourself for no good reason or being someone you are not. its out of respect for the person you supposedly care about.

this is something ive been thinking about quite a bit so thought i would just toss it out there. i know sexuality is complex and theres a lot of social stigmas that makes stuff confusing. and im sure its different for bisexuals too. but my main point is sacrifice happens on many levels in any relationship why is sex different.

sorry if that comes of as disrespectful im really wondering.

[Annika L]

hey so i understand this isnt exactly what you were referring to here.. and i agree that these things arent really 'demons' at all they are just what someone wants.... but just becuase ive been thinking about this alot i wanted to ask this since it was mentioned.. so just to play devils advocate i mean, i mean it takes sacrifice on all levels to maintain any relationship... monagamous or not right?

i mean like i might want to eat 12 cupcakes every day, or smoke cigarettes in bed, or paint the bathroom green, or any number of things and there could be a million reasons why i dont --- either to benefit myself or people i care about. i think noone on earth ever truly gets to do -every- single thing they want all the time.. relationships are about respecting what both people need on almost every level so why shouldnt sexuality be included in that. isnt demanding to do every single thing you want sexually regardless of what your partner wants or how they feel, just as inconsiderate as smoking in front of someone with asthma or eating cupcakes around a diabetic? or painting the bathroom a color that your partner told you they totally hate? isnt being inconsiderate being inconsiderate, no matter what area of life it happens in?

yeah i might really wanna smoke in bed but maybe my partner has asthma. am i gonna just say 'fuck you honey i gotta be me i dont care if you can breathe' no noone would say that. not becuase you are limiting yourself for no good reason or being someone you are not. its out of respect for the person you supposedly care about.

this is something ive been thinking about quite a bit so thought i would just toss it out there. i know sexuality is complex and theres a lot of social stigmas that makes stuff confusing. and im sure its different for bisexuals too. but my main point is sacrifice happens on many levels in any relationship why is sex different.

sorry if that comes of as disrespectful im really wondering.

Bless you, cherry...I think this was wonderfully stated, and needed to be said/asked!

[SlimDandy]

hey so i understand this isnt exactly what you were referring to here.. and i agree that these things arent really 'demons' at all they are just what someone wants.... but just becuase ive been thinking about this alot i wanted to ask this since it was mentioned.. so just to play devils advocate i mean, i mean it takes sacrifice on all levels to maintain any relationship... monagamous or not right?

i mean like i might want to eat 12 cupcakes every day, or smoke cigarettes in bed, or paint the bathroom green, or any number of things and there could be a million reasons why i dont --- either to benefit myself or people i care about. i think noone on earth ever truly gets to do -every- single thing they want all the time.. relationships are about respecting what both people need on almost every level so why shouldnt sexuality be included in that. isnt demanding to do every single thing you want sexually regardless of what your partner wants or how they feel, just as inconsiderate as smoking in front of someone with asthma or eating cupcakes around a diabetic? or painting the bathroom a color that your partner told you they totally hate? isnt being inconsiderate being inconsiderate, no matter what area of life it happens in?

yeah i might really wanna smoke in bed but maybe my partner has asthma. am i gonna just say 'fuck you honey i gotta be me i dont care if you can breathe' no noone would say that. not becuase you are limiting yourself for no good reason or being someone you are not. its out of respect for the person you supposedly care about.

this is something ive been thinking about quite a bit so thought i would just toss it out there. i know sexuality is complex and theres a lot of social stigmas that makes stuff confusing. and im sure its different for bisexuals too. but my main point is sacrifice happens on many levels in any relationship why is sex different.

sorry if that comes of as disrespectful im really wondering.


Bless you, cherry...I think this was wonderfully stated, and needed to be said/asked!


I dunno know guys...

I absolutely love being with women intimately. The sex and the relationship that I can have with a woman is so much closer than the one I could ever possibly share with a man. I always seem to connect with women and what they're feeling, so much more than what men are feeling in most cases. That said, I also love the way that I feel when I satisfy women, it always seems as though, I've fulfilled something male obligational function, when doing so. However, on the other hand, when with a guy sexually, it still feels like sex, but it's just a different kinda sex. It seems more selfish and helps me to realize that deep down inside me there's something tender, vulnerable, giving, and feminine. It's a feeling that makes me feel more complete as a person, and not just as a man. I almost feel as though I being made leveled, whole, or more realistic. I really can't explain it any further than that, other than I feel as though I my soul gets lifted to a higher level. All that I know, is that the feeling is essential, and there only one kind of a person who can give me that feeling and that's a man. The puzzling thing, is that I don't crave that feeling as often as I crave the feeling that I get when with women.


For me personally, as well as other bisexuals, we crave different things from the two different sexes. When something is lacking sexually speaking, we begin to wonder. Wondering leads to wandering....

[Annika L]

Hey, don't get me wrong, Slim (Dan?).

I understand that sex is more fundamental to our psyche and our bodies than are cupcakes. Of course it is an oversimplification to *equate* the two. And I have those urges as well. Giving up smoking is perhaps a closer metaphor, since nicotine wires the brain at a fundamental level...but it's still inadequate, since I find that my "craving for men" has *increased* over the years, rather than fallen off altogether, due to lack of reinforcement...I have a feeling that if Pandora ever opens that box, I'll be unable to fully close it again. Knowing that gives me strength, too, though...I don't want to open that box (oh, sheesh, terrible metaphor I now realize) until I'm good and ready.

I think cherry's point was valuable in that there are *loads* of things I feel strongly that I "need to do" to feel fulfilled (some sexual, some not remotely related to sex)...and I won't get to do them all...and not (as Gearbox insinuated...which was what cherry was specifically addressing) because I am being someone I'm not, and certainly not for "no good reason"...both of those are radical oversimplifications of the reality in which we all live.

In this particular case, I am strongly motivated by (as cherry says) respect for the person I care about...that is exactly the thing that keeps me good. And that is not "no good reason"...it's a damned good reason. Nor is it being someone I'm not...it's *all about* who I am. I am a very sexual being who desires both sexes, *and* who honors commitments and who respects her partner utterly...and who happens to *currently* have a monogamous relationship with that partner. So when I get those "fundamental urges", I don't just give in to them, because I'm having them...I talk to my partner, and we work at figuring out how best to renegotiate those terms. Yeah, it may take years...has already. But dammit, that's *all* part of who I am. And yes, it sucks not getting what I want/need when I want/need it. But dammit, that's life...life as me, at least.

Does that make sense? Does it help?

[Gearbox]

You realy don't need to worry about being disrespectfull with me, but bless you though.:)

I can only answer why sex is different to any other sacrifice if we first be honest about why it is sacrificed. It's not the same as blowing smoke in an asthma sufferers face, eating cakes or making bathrooms an eyesore etc.lol
In fact, partners having sex with others when away from their lovers have no physical effect on them at all. The emotional effect it has on the lover is strictly a result of their own psychology. The partner could consider that, and refrain from outside sex if it cause their lover 'harm' (self harm). He/she could also consider thier lovers psychlogy to be harmful to their psychology and suggest sexual freedom. Then it may all get very complicated.:eek2:

We can condition/train our partners to keep the kitchen tidy, walk the dog for you on Thursdays while your at the gym etc, to be the perfect considerate partner, and that'll become 2nd nature (hopefuly). BUT their sexual urges? Nope! They'll just have to lie about those if they threaten us or the relationship. If there's no outlet, such as sex with us, they become a problem. For a bi who has no outlet for a certain gender, it can be consuming.

Not sure if I've explained this well, sorry.:)

[sexual26]

Lets see I was with a guy for 7 years starting in my early teen years he was a much older gentleman and it was a very inappropriate relationship. Though After this gentleman became ill with cancer and could no longer perform sexually I turned to my sexual attraction for women. I met my wife and became sexually active with her after about two years of chasing her. Once became an offical couple I ceased all activity with other guys and remained true to her for the first two years. After a night of playing strip poker with some friends of ours and talking about the night with her (i should mention I knew she was bi from the beginning and the friends was one of her good friends) and we got to talking about the guy and how he had a nice ass. Before I even realised it I was telling her I was BI as well. The next day after letting our buzzes wear off and everything sink in she began to ask me questions. I told her everything. After sometime of talking she gave me permission to meet other guys. Then after a year or so I actually met a guy and then another after that quickly ended. Now I have met a person I really like though I have only been able to be with him once we have been talking for the past few months and hope to have a nice relationship with him....


whoops sorry ok so back to the question asked before I came out to my wife I would have said no monagamy wouldn't be a problem but since I've came out to her I don't believe I could ever had actually stayed monagamous. I very much enjoy the sexual contact and affection I get from other males. Though I do love my wife very much and would try my best if she asked me not to be with other guys but the truth is I'm not sure if I could do it or not.

[Annika L]

...partners having sex with others when away from their lovers have no physical effect on them at all.

I firmly disagree here. As long as the person contracts no disease or anything else communicable, this is true...but shit does happen, and an unknowing partner can be infected, having no clue that infection was even a remote possibility.


The emotional effect it has on the lover is strictly a result of their own psychology.

...which is as much a part of your partner as your bisexuality is part of you, let's remember.


The partner could consider that, and refrain from outside sex if it cause their lover 'harm' (self harm). He/she could also consider thier lovers psychlogy to be harmful to their psychology and suggest sexual freedom. Then it may all get very complicated.:eek2:

The suggestion of sexual freedom ought to be perfectly fine. I have no issues with that. And the complications are just like the complications that arise when any other disagreements arise between partners. They must either be worked through or the relationship must be terminated. What distresses me (poor me, I know) is when instead of handling such situations in what I see as an honorable fashion, people violate a monogamy agreement without their partner knowing.


We can condition/train our partners to keep the kitchen tidy, et al, ...BUT their sexual urges? Nope! They'll just have to lie about those if they threaten us or the relationship. If there's no outlet, such as sex with us, they become a problem. For a bi who has no outlet for a certain gender, it can be consuming.

I agree that you cannot change your partner's sexual urges (i.e., Dan's previous partner was WAY out of line in her response, given my understanding of how he approached the situation). It is unreasonable and certainly unrealistic to ask them to change them (IMO...I know some on this site disagree). But you have every right to ask them to control their *behavior*. Doing so may cause problems...may indeed become consuming...as I am incrementally discovering. But your response to this difficulty is what shows you (and your partner) who you really are.

So Geary, darling (and I do say that with affection)...in what way is the sacrifice "for nothing" or does it constitute pretending to be who you're not? When people say these things, I do feel like my choices to be honorable (and those of other like-minded people) are being attacked, and like the choices of those who violate their monogamy agreements are being defended or exonerated (maybe you're not doing that last part here). I understand the situation and the motivations of such people...but I cannot condone their behavior.

[cherry88]

You realy don't need to worry about being disrespectfull with me, but bless you though.:)

haha no problem i try :>


I can only answer why sex is different to any other sacrifice if we first be honest about why it is sacrificed. It's not the same as blowing smoke in an asthma sufferers face, eating cakes or making bathrooms an eyesore etc.lol

ok thanks... well yah and actually i was thinking this after hearing the other replies too. like certainly cupcakes are pretty trivial need, (for most) definitely expressing ones own true sexual identity is a much more central and important need.

i guess the thing is that everyone has needs at all levels important and trivial. some people may have a naturally high need for commitment, trust and boundary respect.. its just their personal style. their emotional needs, may clash with their partners sexual preference. but they may be -just- as central and important to them... and probably theres a pretty complicated algorithm that goes into figuring where to meet in the middle on that stuff in any relationship..

also, maybe some people are naturally more into impulse control. like i remember this experiment where a women left children alone for a few minutes in a room with a bowl of candy. they were told if they didnt sneak -any- while she was gone, theyd be given another whole bowl as a reward afterwards. so apparently some kids were totally able to wait, and not eat the candy, and got their reward. other kids, even totally knowing they were giving up a full bowl of candy just a few minutes away, for a couple of pieces hurriedly sneaked, -stil- went ahead and stole a piece. some reached in the bowl literally before she was out the door.

her conclusion was that some human beings are more naturally wired for delayed gratification than others..... to some people its easier to give up stuff they 'want', for other reasons they see as more important. they have other internal motivators (like annika said, respect or wish to honor a commitment) than are stronger or more important personaly than the particular urge or desire. i cant remember how but i remember her saying she felt this characteristic was pretty hardwired through a persons life. (and presumably totally independent of sexual orientation i guess!)

it was just all making me think that people have all kinds of needs of all levels of importance... and then, all levels of deciding whether to give in to a specific need or defer it.. and it still seems like any relationship, will entail some kind of balancing of al that stuff between partners.





In fact, partners having sex with others when away from their lovers have no physical effect on them at all. The emotional effect it has on the lover is strictly a result of their own psychology.

ok well this is a really intriguing concept. // i have heard it before. and in some ways, yeah i think you have a point... but in other ways im just not sure...

again i just want to play devils advocate because i want to learn. im just not sure it has 'no physical effect'. nothing happens in a vacuum.

so maybe my lover goes and sleeps with someone behind my back, (especially knowing im not into it) and i dont overtly 'know'. but its still affecting me. in a close, committed relationship, which is what i signed up for, i dont want anything that will make me a lower priority, or cause him to devalue me or what i bring to his life, or that hes giving all this stuff to other people and has no energy or interest in being with me or giving to me.... and i certainly dont want anyone lying to me habitually.... without honesty and respect you have nothing. i wouldnt want that on any level, him playing golf too much, drinking too much, him secretly gambing our savings, i wouldnt want that in -any- area of life. and sex is an especially personal sensitive area for some people. (haha sensitive area lol)

but -much- much more important..... the fact that i dont know, and that he knows that i dont know, but still acts 'normal' which is essentially an ongoing lie, changes the emotional power balance in the relationship... so at that point it stops being about sharing anymore and being open with each other and having a balanced flow of information and both people being equally empowered.... its about i did something (something very personal and special, something you -think- im sharing just with you) and you dont know. thats a power imbalance which i dont think should be happening in -any- area of an honest relationship really. -especially- if its a contested area where partners do not agree or where they haven't reachd an agreement already. i think stuff like that can really poison an emotional environment, and changes the way the people act and interact in many areas, and is hugely disrespectful, even if people dont overtly notice the cause.

so it seems on those levels it totally affects the other person.. and the overall relationship too.... especially if its something that includes any level of dishonesty especialy ongoing.. but that may not be what you are talking about and thats what i want to learn about.

i said all that stuff knowingn it might sound closed minded or prejudiced... knowing i dont know the whole picture. knowing other people see this -totally- differently and i want to learn why they think i am wrong. i left it in there becuase im hoping people would correct that if they thought that.






The partner could consider that, and refrain from outside sex if it cause their lover 'harm' (self harm).


ok yeah about harm: maybe the partner has a really good reason for wanting boundaries like that in their life. // maybe its a really core emotional need they have for trust and respect of boundaries. maybe they have peresonal sexual issues or have trouble trusting people they dont know well. that is a legitimate emotional need that can be very intense. i really -do- see how that need could be more important ultimately, than having outside sex 6 times a month, instead of 5. if you can make your partner feel safe and respected by just cutting out that -one- time, just saying no thank you i have other priorities, just one time out of 6, wouldnt you do it? and feel good to do it? it seems like anyone would if they care how their partner feels emotionally.

then again also, is it really that difficult to find other non-monagamous people for relationships? is it really that hard to find someone from the get go, who you know from the start is ok with non-monagamy?? its not entirely reasonable to expect someone to just become non-monagamous suddenly if thats not what they signed up for or waht they indicated they were into.... then you are making the monagamous person the bad guy for wanting monagamy. but really, they were just doing what they thought they were signing up for. //



He/she could also consider thier lovers psychlogy to be harmful to their psychology and suggest sexual freedom. Then it may all get very complicated.:eek2:

well sure and hopefully he would be open to, well, compromise. // none gets everything they want even if they are single.




We can condition/train our partners to keep the kitchen tidy, walk the dog for you on Thursdays while your at the gym etc, to be the perfect considerate partner, and that'll become 2nd nature (hopefuly). BUT their sexual urges? Nope! They'll just have to lie about those if they threaten us or the relationship.

haha! well i really dont want my partner to need to lie about anything in a good relationship. // if my partner has urges i want him to honestly tell me and we can work on a compromise that respects both of us and if we just cant do it, we should break up.... and the next time he gets with soemone he should honestly tell them very early on what he is into so he wont have that problem. but who wants to stay in any relationship which relies on lies -especially- about something so personally important? that sounds terrible :<<



If there's no outlet, such as sex with us, they become a problem. For a bi who has no outlet for a certain gender, it can be consuming.

Not sure if I've explained this well, sorry.:)

well yeah you did, thank you.. i can see how it would be more complicated with bisexual peeps in some ways. // but im interested to learn more about why you think it has no physical effect..... how you see that.... and different people's approaches to it. why people think it adds to a relationship instead of detracting from it. its very very initeresting and enlightening so thanks a lot.

didnt mean to hijack stuff a bit.... i gues this is a bit o.t. but really im just interested in why monagamy -is- seen as hard for some people and not for others, and why. :>> thanks alot.

[tenni]

"I do feel like my choices to be honorable (and those of other like-minded people) are being attacked,

The problem that I have with this part of your belief is that you are declaring yourself honourable and it infers to me that others are therefore dishonourable if they do not align with your belief? That is fine for you if you chose to be monogamous. Gear's point as I understand it is that we may only chose to be monogamous for ourselves. We should not attempt to impose our will on others. Your position is not honourable if the opposite is dishonourable. It is a different belief structure.

You may chose to leave a relationship if your partner is not monogamous but in reality you are imposing or threatening to impose your will. It is not honourable to impose your will on others.

and like the choices of those who violate their monogamy agreements are being defended or exonerated (maybe you're not doing that last part here). I understand the situation and the motivations of such people...but I cannot condone their behavior. "

I support the position that bisexuals should never agree to monogamy as a firm promise. Offer monogamy for fixed time periods to be re examined but don't demand it of others.

[cherry88]

http://www.bisexual.com/forum/images/styles/lifeElement/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Gearbox http://www.bisexual.com/forum/images/styles/lifeElement/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.bisexual.com/forum/showthread.php?p=238907#post238907)
The emotional effect it has on the lover is strictly a result of their own psychology.






...which is as much a part of your partner as your bisexuality is part of you, let's remember.



rr! how did you say that in so many less words than i did! @

[TemptingTom]

Wow what a thread! My 2 cents. I believe a bisexual can commit to one person! I have done it and I prefer a committed relationship. Those relationship have ended not because of my bisexuality but because those women tried to control and change me to conform with there belief of what a relationship should be. I am currently single and free to fuck around. So my problem is not the commitment but finding the right one to commit to. The women want to change me and the men want to blow and go!
Tom

[tenni]

Wow what a thread! My 2 cents. I believe a bisexual can commit to one person! I have done it and I prefer a committed relationship. Those relationship have ended not because of my bisexuality but because those women tried to control and change me to conform with there belief of what a relationship should be. I am currently single and free to fuck around. So my problem is not the commitment but finding the right one to commit to. The women want to change me and the men want to blow and go!
Tom

Amen Bro to much of what you post.

Trying to change a partner and control them is at the root of some monogamy issues for bisexuals imo. Then again, it is clear that the concept of commitment may be different for some/many than others?

[Gearbox]

I firmly disagree here. As long as the person contracts no disease or anything else communicable, this is true...but shit does happen, and an unknowing partner can be infected, having no clue that infection was even a remote possibility.
You firmly disagree but you say it's true.:tongue: Yes there is a possible way that the partner can become a 'victim' of something tangible due to his/her partner having sex with another. The act itself has no effect outside the partners view of it though: it is what the partner believes it to be.
Not the same as 'smoke in face' = 'Asthma attack'. That isn't an emotional response to an act, and can't be modified. It's never a 'good' thing.


...which is as much a part of your partner as your bisexuality is part of you, let's remember.
This was in answer to "The emotional effect it has on the lover is strictly a result of their own psychology.".
Yes your psychology is just as much a part of you as your sexuality. That's where the similarity ends!
Our sexuality is not the same thing as our tendancy to cry at weddings, spark off roadrage, exhibit nurtureing qualities, ability to murder, etc etc We can change the way we view things, but can not willfully change our sexuality.
'The way we view things' has a direct result on how we react emotionaly to things. NOT the other way around like some would have you believe. For eg- By understanding something that we fear, often releases us from that fear. We modify our behaviour that way.


The suggestion of sexual freedom ought to be perfectly fine. I have no issues with that. And the complications are just like the complications that arise when any other disagreements arise between partners. They must either be worked through or the relationship must be terminated. What distresses me (poor me, I know) is when instead of handling such situations in what I see as an honorable fashion, people violate a monogamy agreement without their partner knowing.
Yes cheating is cheating. That's not what I'm talking about though. That's a 'violating a rule' thing.


I agree that you cannot change your partner's sexual urges (i.e., Dan's previous partner was WAY out of line in her response, given my understanding of how he approached the situation). It is unreasonable and certainly unrealistic to ask them to change them (IMO...I know some on this site disagree). But you have every right to ask them to control their *behavior*. Doing so may cause problems...may indeed become consuming...as I am incrementally discovering. But your response to this difficulty is what shows you (and your partner) who you really are.

So Geary, darling (and I do say that with affection)...in what way is the sacrifice "for nothing" or does it constitute pretending to be who you're not? When people say these things, I do feel like my choices to be honorable (and those of other like-minded people) are being attacked, and like the choices of those who violate their monogamy agreements are being defended or exonerated (maybe you're not doing that last part here). I understand the situation and the motivations of such people...but I cannot condone their behavior.
We're back to why sexual freedom is sacrificed, or why it's required of another. There's nothing honourable about removing a freedom, and that's where monogamy starts to fail in that sense (at it's foundation). There is no time period for this agreement, and as we know, things change, sexuality waxes & wanes. What makes sense today, may not tomorrow in a sexual sense (bi talking here.lol). So what is 'sacrificed' today may not yet exsist in the mind of the 'sacrificee' and he/she will come to reevaluate that agreement for him/herself at some point.
"Vowes are spoken, to be broken. Feelings are intense. Words are meaningless.", sung Depeche Mode and IMO should do wedding gigs to remind the happy couple of that.:bigrin: There may be less divorces due to infedelity if we just accepted each others freedoms and not seek to confine the one/s we claim to love.
SlimDandy's ex may love him very much, but his reluctance to protect her from her 'demons' outweighs any love she had/has.
(* 'Demons' as in the negative emotions that caused her to act 'attacked' by HIS intended personal sexual freedom.)

He's still the person she loves. Or is he? Makes you wonder what she loved him for, what his use was, and why the relationships rules were more respected by her than his honesty.

Maybe you could help me out?
1. What are the qualities of a person a monogamist loves more than monogamy itself?
2. Why is sexual freedom required to be sacrificed by a monogamists partner? (Std etc aside).
3. How could a partner be 'who they are' when not 'allowed' to express or explore that for themselves.
4. Monogamy on a 1year bonding period rule for all. Watcha think? It could work, catch on, become compulsory by 2050?:tongue:

[DuckiesDarling]

sighs this was an interesting read now it's back to the same old bash monogamy thread. We get it, Gear, you aren't a monogamous person, but doesn't give you the right to denigrate other people in a relationship as insecure and selfish. You say you don't care what others do so why does it matter if they are monogamous? They aren't pushing you to be monogamous, they aren't condemning you for not being monogamous. The opposite, most say it doesn't matter as long as everyone in the relationship is on the same page.

[DiamondDog]

No I do not think that monogamy is a challenge for bisexuals.

I've heard this from a bisexual male friend I talked to last night; but he's in an open relationship with another man. I know that they happen to watch hetero and bisexual porn together since they are both bisexual. They may even have sex with other women. I know they have sex with other men at times so it would not surprise me if they had sex with women or wanted to at times. I don't keep track of their personal sex lives so I have no clue if they do this or not, and I am not in their relationship.

I know other bisexuals both women and men who are in monogamous relationships, or they want a monogamous relationship and not an open relationship or open marriage.

I myself have been in open relationships for most of my adult life so far but I would highly prefer a monogamous relationship with a man.

I have been in relationships with other bisexual men and when we wanted sex together with each other and a woman we just would tell each other our fantasies. Or in some cases we would watch porn both bisexual and hetero porn; but that's not really my thing since I don't want to watch porn during sex when I have a sexual partner in front of me.

I know my ex would fantasize about me with a woman, and I would have sex dreams about being with him and a woman.

[Annika L]

"I do feel like my choices to be honorable (and those of other like-minded people) are being attacked,

The problem that I have with this part of your belief is that you are declaring yourself honourable and it infers to me that others are therefore dishonourable if they do not align with your belief? That is fine for you if you chose to be monogamous.

Tenni, I see how you could misinterpret what I meant, and I want to be completely clear on what I mean and what I do not mean. I did not say or mean "my choices to be an honorable person"...I said "my choices to be honorable", meaning "my choices to be honorable in this regard"...meaning literally my choices to honor the agreement I'd made. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, I believe that if someone does not abide by an agreement they made, then they are (with respect to that agreement) dishonorable...perhaps not a dishonorable person generally, but they acted dishonorably with respect to their agreement. Got it?

Yes I got myself into this "predicament" by agreeing to monogamy to begin with...cut me some slack here, we were both friggin 19 years old at the time, ok? But regardless of age, I am in exactly the same position as someone who got married at 19, and then at 45 (or 23 or whatever) says "holy shit, I'm bisexual...how can I honor this commitment?" I could choose to violate the agreement, thus dishonoring that agreement...or I could do as I do. I don't think doing as I do makes me an honorable person...but it is an honorable course, given that I am in this position.

So no, I reject the notion that I am trying to dictate morality...expecting others to "align with my belief". No, I am just honoring an agreement where I see many others dishonoring theirs...according to all the usual definitions of "honoring an agreement". And I see my decision to do that being attacked...and those dishonoring their agreements being defended. Hey, I've already said in various threads that I don't think this makes them bad people...but they are behaving dishonorably in this regard (i.e., by dishonoring an agreement)...there's no two ways around that.

And I did not agree to monogamy because my partner threatened to leave me if I didn't. Like I said, I was 19...I'd been raised to believe in monogamy...it was the 1980's and everyone was doin' it! It was a cultural default, and I never questioned it. I imagine most people in monogamous relationships (including marriages) are in a similar boat. Once in that boat, however, if you ask for a change of terms, your partner is not unfairly "imposing their will" to say no. If you sign a contract on a loan that promises to repay by 2014 and later say "y'know, I'd like until 2020, actually", the banks aren't unfairly "imposing their will" by turning down your request...they have every right to expect you to behave as you said you would in the contract, and you're the one with the obligation on your behavior...you either act honorably and repay the loan, despite the hardship that may cause; or you dishonor the original agreement.


I support the position that bisexuals should never agree to monogamy as a firm promise. Offer monogamy for fixed time periods to be re examined but don't demand it of others.

I am 100% with you on this. Or at least I would say that it is perilous for a bisexual to agree to perpetual monogamy...because for so many the urges become stronger in ways you cannot foresee. I mean by this no disrespect toward bisexuals who *are* currently happy in monogamous relationships. I'm saying it's perilous to embark on such a trip.

Would that there was education for bisexuals that told us these things at a reasonable age (or at least that there'd been for me). Meh, at 19, I probably still wouldn't have believed them. "No, I'm special, stronger than others...for *this* person, I can resist that temptation...honestly, I can take or leave men, and I can't foresee it getting *that* much stronger; really, I may as well be a lesbian." Yeah, but things change over 26 years.

[x2c2x]

LOL

You are talking about human sexual behavior, which is supremely complex. Some people, regardless of sexual orientation, seem to find monogamy easy. Some people in certain cultures find brother marriage (multiple brothers married to one wife shared in common) normal. <tibet and nepal> Some find monogamy easy as long as prostitutes are not regarded as neither cheating nor adultery. (Seems to require unmarried sex workers.) <Judaic hyper orthodox, variant> Some find it easy if fucking the boys at the symposium is not a problem. <Athens,intermittently> Some men look at their wives as a duty while their companions are lovers. <Sparta> So the question has to be restricted to a time and place - say modern USA.

There is no good answer. There is no good unbiased "scientific" answer. The "scientific community" is still arguing over male bisexuality; it is hard to break through that which is commonly accepted".

Monogamy, pure monogamy with no occasional side partners on either side, is rare. It is supposed to be standard in some birds but that has been challenged with some rather rude experiments that prove (live offspring) from supposedly monogamous pairs where the male was castrated. It is not common in most mammals. It is not common in other primates. Laws with severe punishments (i.e. death) have not eliminated adultery in otherwise monogamous cultures. Modern polling finds that evangelical south, terribly monogamous and bi-phobic, to be as kinky and adulterous as the liberal Northeast. Which leads to the question if monogamy can be proved anywhere.

Double-plus-sigh. Iread 1984 if you did not get the joke.) The only answer that can be given is individual. If a monogamous relationship is going well it serves me and I stay in it. If it isn't it's time to renegotiate the relationship or to end the relationship. Straights, for whom we have good data, stay married (not necessarily monogamous) for less than a decade on average. My suspicion is that it is not different with any other talking primate. As long as it works it's fine, if it ain't working you find another sex partner, or more.

[Annika L]

Hi Geary.

I suspect we are not *that* far apart in our beliefs. You certainly raise some interesting questions.

But I must start by saying that your little "you agree but say it's true" ploy was pathetic. I said it's true IF you contract nothing. But you can't guarantee you'll contract nothing. So I disagree that the act blanketly "has no physical effect on the partner". That is a dangerous denial of reality. And it is *worse* than blowing smoke in an asthma sufferer's face...because at the least the asthma sufferer is aware of the betrayal and can say "fuck you, I'm outta here"...the partner of someone who violates their monogamy agreement has no clue...until it surfaces, either because of a confession, or because someone turns up with an ailment they can't otherwise explain. Fucking outrageous. Ok, enough of that.

I guess I just disgree with your statement that "Our sexuality is not the same thing as our tendancy to cry at weddings, spark off roadrage, exhibit nurtureing qualities, ability to murder, etc etc." Society and learning can certainly influence your response to weddings, road-annoyances, babies, murderous feelsings, etc., just like society can influence our response to our sexuality...but it does not determine those responses any more than it determines our sexuality. I believe a large component of how we respond to such things is innate...part of how we are wired. Reasonable people can disagree. But *I* maintain (i.e., IMO) that mostly, a person's psychological makeup is a lot more than just their views.

Thank you for clarifying that you're not talking about cheating.

I *like* your questions about "why is sexual freedom sacrified or required of another". Very thought-provoking. In the case of my partner and myself (n = 2), I think it all boils down to strong needs for physical safety and emotional stability. If I mess around with a guy (or another woman), there are lots of physical risks. And unless it's a guy (or woman) I know *extremely* well, then there are potential risks to my partner as well (even if the probability is low)...I could be stalked, he/she could get my housekeys, whatever...I know it sounds paranoid, and yes, these things could happen anyway, but the risk in increased by making myself vulnerable...and the woman I love is at stake. Emotional stability...after 26 years, how can I know how I'll respond to having sex with a man? I know already that I can lose myself in feelings for others...add sex, and that sounds positively explosive...I can see myself going down a path of feeling that I'm going straight...that I need more of this guy (and less of my partner?). I dunno. Maybe it's fear of the unknown, pure and simple...but it's fear of the unknown along those two dimensions. Those are the stumbling blocks my partner and I *both* encounter (we've discussed it...we both feel this way...it's not just me) around changing our monogamy agreement...it's why we continue to sacrifice our sexual freedom and continue to ask one another to do likewise...for now.

But being perfectly honest, I don't (and I think she feels similarly) think I even *want* sex without her, though. That is not to say I don't want sex with anyone else...I do...but I want her to be part of it...shit, we've happily shared *everything* for 26 years...why would I want that to change? That ratchets up the physical safety concerns considerably. It's not just "mostly me, with paranoid concerns about possible impact to her".

Your formal questions mostly confuse me, though. On (1) I can only speak for myself, but I don't love my partner's monogamy...I love her...and I suspect she would say the same. For (2) I think I answered that amply above, at least for my own situation...buy *why* put "STD, etc." aside?? That's not unimportant! For (3) I completely feel that I am being "who I am" while having a monogamy expectation on me...I mean, you might as well ask how we can be who we are when we're not permitted to explore murder or theft...who knows, but that I could be a top-notch assassin, or might make a very handy and easy living just by pickpocketing (or perhaps identity theft), if such things weren't illegal? Seriously, it could be in my blood, but I've never given it a chance, because of society's rules. Having restrictions on what we may do does not (in my view) stop us from being who we are...it just puts parameters around what we may do while being ourselves. Do we have some kind of semantic difference on this?

For (4), I'm not clear on *exactly* what you're suggesting. "Just you and me for the first year, then we renegotiate" kind of thing? S'ok...if you want monogamy for even that long (that would be my only objection to making it compulsory). I'll bet many would still cheat during that year, though. In general, I am completely in favor of short-term monogamy contracts...5 years, 10 years...but again, I'll bet the same people who are cheating now would still cheat under those terms.

[Gearbox]

sighs this was an interesting read now it's back to the same old bash monogamy thread. We get it, Gear, you aren't a monogamous person, but doesn't give you the right to denigrate other people in a relationship as insecure and selfish. You say you don't care what others do so why does it matter if they are monogamous? They aren't pushing you to be monogamous, they aren't condemning you for not being monogamous. The opposite, most say it doesn't matter as long as everyone in the relationship is on the same page.
Sorry I made the thread less interesting for you by answering questions honestly DD.lol I'm talking about people, not monog or non-monog, just people. Monogamy is choice, not a disposition btw, and it has motives and reasons. Why is it that some people get in a fluster when those reasons FOR monog are discussed? The last taboo?:tongue:

[Long Duck Dong]

the trouble is that people use every tool in the garden shed to explain why people are monogamous..... and their best answer for why people are not non monogamous, is that monogamy is not natural....lol

the biggest trouble with discussing monogamy is that most people do not want to discuss it, they want to post reasons why its wrong, its not natural, its a socially motivated way of being, its religious, its insecurity, selfish, greed etc.... and they do not want to accept that some people are naturally monogamous, they have no interest in living the lifestyle that others do......

its like a bloody religion in a way... the religion of non monogamy, where non monogamy is the way the truth and the life and people shall have no other lifestyle other than non monogamy.....and its ok to find fault in the way that others think and believe but the heavens shall rain fire and brimstone on that that shall not repent for their sin of monogamy and asking a monogamous relationship and marriage.....

I am curious how many people say to their partners, " sorry, but your monogamous lifestyle is wrong, its selfish, its greedy and you are brainwashed by social norms and religion and morality, you need to free your mind and open your eyes and see that the non monogamous lifestyle is the true partner " .... instead, most of them post in the forum about how they want to continue the monogamous style of commitment to a single partner, with the love, devotion and honesty.. and that the non monogamous aspect only applies to sex with other people......

so in essense, if monogamy is so much of a issue then why do so many people like to blur the lines and retain the majority aspect of monogamy ?... if we are to truly believe that nature is not monogamous ( which is not totally correct ) then why do we not mirror nature and not have partners at all... why do we not follow the major traits of nature and have sex to breed with multiple partners..?????

even in open relationships, there are many couples that have only a few other people they are intimate with, rather than a long string of people that they have slept with.... so even in that respect, people are displaying some of the same aspects that are found in monogamous style relationships.......

by that logic, there is also a kinsey type scale of monogamy to non monogamy...... from the 1) of total monogamy / single partner to the 7) of total non monogamy / multiple partners but no primary partner....... and that would imply that monogamy is a choice for some that are not 1) in the same way that a person that is not 1) or 7) on the kinsey scale of sexuality can be attracted on some levels to people of both ( or more ) genders.....

however, there will always be monogamous people and non monogamous people... and there will always people that will say that monogamy is wrong when it infringes on their rights to sleep with other people but rarely, if ever, admit that their wish to be non monogamous can infringe on a partners desire to have a closed relationship..... and near every time, it will be the monogamous partner that is seen as the partner that needs to change and compromise as its unfair for a non monogamous partner to be denied their *dream *

it all comes right back to the stance of do not expect others to change their lives for you, if you are not prepared to do the same for others...... cos that is the ultimate in selfishness...

[tenni]

I find it interesting that this comment about denigrating or bashing complaint? Monogamy is the icon of support in the mainstream heterosexual society. To even discuss negatives of monogamy for bisexual seems to be taboo for some non bisexuals on this site. We have a hetero, apparently celibate(phone sex doesn't count imo), woman complaining about being called selfish and insecure when no one has made such a statement that I have read. This is a bisexual site and there are certainly valid reasons why bisexuals should discuss whether monogamy is appropriate for us. If anything, non monogamous people seem to be denigrated for violating not desiring monogamy imo. As Annika points out young or newly aware bisexuals need to be made aware that promising to be monogamous carries unforeseen issues in the future for bisexuals.

I do agree that as long as the people involved in a relationship of any number of individuals in agreement on this issue that is good. However, I read so many bisexuals struggling. What I find interesting is the number of bisexuals who do not connect monogamy as a challenge specific to bisexuals differing from monosexuals.

Good points Annika. Thanks for the clarification.

[DuckiesDarling]

I find it interesting that this comment about denigrating or bashing complaint? Monogamy is the icon of support in the mainstream heterosexual society. To even discuss negatives of monogamy for bisexual seems to be taboo for some non bisexuals on this site. We have a hetero, apparently celibate(phone sex doesn't count imo), woman complaining about being called selfish and insecure when no one has made such a statement that I have read. This is a bisexual site and there are certainly valid reasons why bisexuals should discuss whether monogamy is appropriate for us. If anything, non monogamous people seem to be denigrated for violating not desiring monogamy imo. As Annika points out young or newly aware bisexuals need to be made aware that promising to be monogamous carries unforeseen issues in the future for bisexuals.

I do agree that as long as the people involved in a relationship of any number of individuals in agreement on this issue that is good. However, I read so many bisexuals struggling. What I find interesting is the number of bisexuals who do not connect monogamy as a challenge specific to bisexuals differing from monosexuals.

Good points Annika. Thanks for the clarification.

Well, Tenni, those of us that keep a thought in our head longer than a flea are perfectly capable of reading the entire history of remarks by Gearbox, who I addressed, as calling partners who want to be monogamous selfish and insecure. So please C your way out of the A and B conversation. Thanks.

[Gearbox]

Well, Tenni, those of us that keep a thought in our head longer than a flea are perfectly capable of reading the entire history of remarks by Gearbox, who I addressed, as calling partners who want to be monogamous selfish and insecure. So please C your way out of the A and B conversation. Thanks.
Have you read the crap your bf has written about non-monogamist, sex, sexuality etc? Please police HIS keyboard assaults. Do us ALL a favour.;)

[void()]

I don't know, always chosen to be monogamous out of loving someone not because it was 'The Right Thing' to do, or any other reason. It works for me and those I love. Not everything works equally as for everyone. That's about the sum of my feelings on a monogamous relationship. Guess love makes it easy for me. TETO.

[SlimDandy]

LOL

You are talking about human sexual behavior, which is supremely complex. Some people, regardless of sexual orientation, seem to find monogamy easy. Some people in certain cultures find brother marriage (multiple brothers married to one wife shared in common) normal. <tibet and nepal> Some find monogamy easy as long as prostitutes are not regarded as neither cheating nor adultery. (Seems to require unmarried sex workers.) <Judaic hyper orthodox, variant> Some find it easy if fucking the boys at the symposium is not a problem. <Athens,intermittently> Some men look at their wives as a duty while their companions are lovers. <Sparta> So the question has to be restricted to a time and place - say modern USA.

There is no good answer. There is no good unbiased "scientific" answer. The "scientific community" is still arguing over male bisexuality; it is hard to break through that which is commonly accepted".

Monogamy, pure monogamy with no occasional side partners on either side, is rare. It is supposed to be standard in some birds but that has been challenged with some rather rude experiments that prove (live offspring) from supposedly monogamous pairs where the male was castrated. It is not common in most mammals. It is not common in other primates. Laws with severe punishments (i.e. death) have not eliminated adultery in otherwise monogamous cultures. Modern polling finds that evangelical south, terribly monogamous and bi-phobic, to be as kinky and adulterous as the liberal Northeast. Which leads to the question if monogamy can be proved anywhere.

Double-plus-sigh. Iread 1984 if you did not get the joke.) The only answer that can be given is individual. If a monogamous relationship is going well it serves me and I stay in it. If it isn't it's time to renegotiate the relationship or to end the relationship. Straights, for whom we have good data, stay married (not necessarily monogamous) for less than a decade on average. My suspicion is that it is not different with any other talking primate. As long as it works it's fine, if it ain't working you find another sex partner, or more.

Surprisingly interesting! Even enlightening perhaps...

[tenni]

"Well, Tenni, those of us that keep a thought in our head longer than a flea are perfectly capable of reading the entire history of remarks by Gearbox, who I addressed, as calling partners who want to be monogamous selfish and insecure. So please C your way out of the A and B conversation. Thanks."

" those of us that keep a thought in our head longer than a flea"= personal attack rule 2 violation Madam

Now moving beyond your rude snarky lack of civility which post on this thread does Gear make this comment?

If the comment was on another thread, let it stay there and discuss it there...or start your own thread. The issue of partners who are insecure is not part of this thread. To introduce it is to post like a troll especially as a non bisexual who hasn't comment on the thread topic about whether bisexual find monogamy more challenging.

You seem uncomfortable and threatened with this thread topic.

[Long Duck Dong]

50/50 bisexual ??? lol it depends on what level you are talking about..... most people break it down to sexual and do not include the emotional and mental aspects as they are not part of what interests them......

if its a purely sexual thing than yeah it could well be 50/50 there.... but the emotional scale may be 80 /20 and the mental could be 40/60 and to me, that is what can make it hard for any person to be monogamous, as there are more aspects to interact with people than just the sex......

as I have said to DD, monogamous sexually is not a issue ( at this stage ) but being monogamous emotionally and mentally is a big issue for me.... ( long complicated story lol ) and a few of my friends are the same.... they are generally ok with one partner sexually, but emotionally and mentally, they desire a deeper interaction with both genders than just close friends..... so things like hugs and kisses ( not sexual ones ) long talks, time shared together, intelligent conversations, are something that they have negotiated with their partners as a form of non monogamous contact....

what I have noticed is that it seems to be easier to compromise that type of non monogamy than a pure sexual non monogamy, based around what others have said..... and i have mildly curious if its cos people can relate to the emotional / mental connection than they can to the sexual connection, cos people do not view it as a from of love... ( for some people it can become a platonic type of love for more than one partner )
the interesting aspect is that a emotional / mental connection can be more *dangerous * to a relationship than a sexual one....

[csrakate]

LDD,

I have to admit that I would find myself much more threatened if my husband were to have a deeply emotional relationship rather than a purely sexual one. I accept the need to connect on an emotional level, but I would prefer a certain level of intimacy remain mine and his alone. I haven't had to face this situation nor do I anticipate having to do so....but you never know. I feel certain that we would work through it as we have everything else.

[darkeyes]

LDD,

I have to admit that I would find myself much more threatened if my husband were to have a deeply emotional relationship rather than a purely sexual one. I accept the need to connect on an emotional level, but I would prefer a certain level of intimacy remain mine and his alone. I haven't had to face this situation nor do I anticipate having to do so....but you never know. I feel certain that we would work through it as we have everything else.When that happens, Mumsie, trust me.. all bets are off and the dogs of war are unleashed... the 4 horsepeeps of mayhem and destruction are let loose and no one can say just where anything is headed... and that goes for monogamous and non monogamous relationships..

[darkeyes]

I have always found this subject quite fascinating.. interesting to see just how differently men and women of all sexualities tend to view it....

[Gearbox]

But I must start by saying that your little "you agree but say it's true" ploy was pathetic. I said it's true IF you contract nothing. But you can't guarantee you'll contract nothing. So I disagree that the act blanketly "has no physical effect on the partner". That is a dangerous denial of reality. And it is *worse* than blowing smoke in an asthma sufferer's face...because at the least the asthma sufferer is aware of the betrayal and can say "fuck you, I'm outta here"...the partner of someone who violates their monogamy agreement has no clue...until it surfaces, either because of a confession, or because someone turns up with an ailment they can't otherwise explain. Fucking outrageous. Ok, enough of that.
Ok, your misunderstanding of 'The sexual act itself' was understandible, but what did you think I meant with "The act itself has no effect outside the partners view of it though: it is what the partner believes it to be."?
The emotional response, as I stated!:tongue:


I guess I just disgree with your statement that "Our sexuality is not the same thing as our tendancy to cry at weddings, spark off roadrage, exhibit nurtureing qualities, ability to murder, etc etc." Society and learning can certainly influence your response to weddings, road-annoyances, babies, murderous feelsings, etc., just like society can influence our response to our sexuality...but it does not determine those responses any more than it determines our sexuality. I believe a large component of how we respond to such things is innate...part of how we are wired. Reasonable people can disagree. But *I* maintain (i.e., IMO) that mostly, a person's psychological makeup is a lot more than just their views.
Yes we'll disagree about sexuality being the same as a personality trait.


I *like* your questions about "why is sexual freedom sacrified or required of another". Very thought-provoking. In the case of my partner and myself (n = 2), I think it all boils down to strong needs for physical safety and emotional stability. If I mess around with a guy (or another woman), there are lots of physical risks. And unless it's a guy (or woman) I know *extremely* well, then there are potential risks to my partner as well (even if the probability is low)...I could be stalked, he/she could get my housekeys, whatever...I know it sounds paranoid, and yes, these things could happen anyway, but the risk in increased by making myself vulnerable...and the woman I love is at stake. Emotional stability...after 26 years, how can I know how I'll respond to having sex with a man? I know already that I can lose myself in feelings for others...add sex, and that sounds positively explosive...I can see myself going down a path of feeling that I'm going straight...that I need more of this guy (and less of my partner?). I dunno. Maybe it's fear of the unknown, pure and simple...but it's fear of the unknown along those two dimensions. Those are the stumbling blocks my partner and I *both* encounter (we've discussed it...we both feel this way...it's not just me) around changing our monogamy agreement...it's why we continue to sacrifice our sexual freedom and continue to ask one another to do likewise...for now.
That reads like your saying that monogamy (for you) is a way to protect you and partner from fears of life and self.
Would YOU say that was a fair discription?


But being perfectly honest, I don't (and I think she feels similarly) think I even *want* sex without her, though. That is not to say I don't want sex with anyone else...I do...but I want her to be part of it...shit, we've happily shared *everything* for 26 years...why would I want that to change? That ratchets up the physical safety concerns considerably. It's not just "mostly me, with paranoid concerns about possible impact to her".
There is NOTHING pushing anybody to rid themselves of monogamy of head for freedom etc. It's not a 'prison' unless it's enforced by ANY means.
You could live your whole life in this monog relationship and be completely satisfied as you define it etc.


Your formal questions mostly confuse me, though. On (1) I can only speak for myself, but I don't love my partner's monogamy...I love her...and I suspect she would say the same. For (2) I think I answered that amply above, at least for my own situation...buy *why* put "STD, etc." aside?? That's not unimportant! For (3) I completely feel that I am being "who I am" while having a monogamy expectation on me...I mean, you might as well ask how we can be who we are when we're not permitted to explore murder or theft...who knows, but that I could be a top-notch assassin, or might make a very handy and easy living just by pickpocketing (or perhaps identity theft), if such things weren't illegal? Seriously, it could be in my blood, but I've never given it a chance, because of society's rules. Having restrictions on what we may do does not (in my view) stop us from being who we are...it just puts parameters around what we may do while being ourselves. Do we have some kind of semantic difference on this?
No1 I was interested in what is still loved about a partner when he/she is dumped for rejecting monogamy. You'd love yours irrespective. No2 I say 'STD aside' as a 3rd with guaranteed no stds could be involved. No3 Freedom doesn't always lead to negative discovories yu know? Although if it's there, then IMO it would be wise to know about it, and deal with it. Restriction is not a good motivator for self discovery in actual scenario learning grounds, even though no physical restriction can trap the mind. We just don't know what we'll do for certain untill in a situation. (Oh we've all been there before.lol).

For (4), I'm not clear on *exactly* what you're suggesting. "Just you and me for the first year, then we renegotiate" kind of thing? S'ok...if you want monogamy for even that long (that would be my only objection to making it compulsory). I'll bet many would still cheat during that year, though. In general, I am completely in favor of short-term monogamy contracts...5 years, 10 years...but again, I'll bet the same people who are cheating now would still cheat under those terms.
Yes, the renegotiate thing. Only a year to inspire bonding untill both are comfortable with each other enough to open the relationship up, or not.
There would be cheating going on, but maybe the 1year thing would help some? Who knows?
I've seen chastity cock locks recently, but that wouldn't work for all bi men though.:tongue:

[SlimDandy]

I find it interesting that this comment about denigrating or bashing complaint? Monogamy is the icon of support in the mainstream heterosexual society. To even discuss negatives of monogamy for bisexual seems to be taboo for some non bisexuals on this site. We have a hetero, apparently celibate(phone sex doesn't count imo), woman complaining about being called selfish and insecure when no one has made such a statement that I have read. This is a bisexual site and there are certainly valid reasons why bisexuals should discuss whether monogamy is appropriate for us. If anything, non monogamous people seem to be denigrated for violating not desiring monogamy imo. As Annika points out young or newly aware bisexuals need to be made aware that promising to be monogamous carries unforeseen issues in the future for bisexuals.

I do agree that as long as the people involved in a relationship of any number of individuals in agreement on this issue that is good. However, I read so many bisexuals struggling. What I find interesting is the number of bisexuals who do not connect monogamy as a challenge specific to bisexuals differing from monosexuals.

Good points Annika. Thanks for the clarification.


Yes indeed, Tenni!

And I do agree that Annika has become a beacon of light upon this issue, as well!

As for me being in a monogamous relationship personally, as stated before, I fear it as being an impossibility. Mainly because, I feel that as a bisexual, I have two different sets of sexual needs required from each sex. Unfortunately, there's one most important singularity missing from the heated female body, that's usually quite an outstanding feature upon the excited male anatomy. Likewise, I often fail to see the need for such a salient feature when I profoundly desire the warmth, touch, yearning, and smell of a woman desiring true intimacy. Sometimes women just drive me crazy with desire, and it's not all sex when it comes to them. It's also mostly about intimacy.

I dunno, OTOH, I think with guys, it's really more about sex! Though it's more about sex, it's also more about the way that I feel both during and after sex. I somehow feel not only sexually satisfied, but spiritually uplifted, and elated. It's like there's two different expectations that I have for each sex. I can last quite sometime without a guy, but I just can't last long at all without a woman. However, when the guy time comes...Look out and gangway, cause there just ain't no stopping this train!

Perhaps I'm not a 50/50 bisexual afterall, because I desire sex less from males. Perhaps its not even about desiring sex less from males. It could be that, I just enjoy the company of a female more so than a guy, and that situation just yields more sexual opportunities. That said, I really don't enjoy one type of sex over another. It's just that when I'm in the mood to have the type of sex that I want, I do enjoy that type the most, at that particular time...

Yeah, we definitely have a wider and more diverse sex palate than heteros

[tenni]

"Perhaps I'm not a 50/50 bisexual afterall, because I desire sex less from males. Perhaps its not even about desiring sex less from males. It could be that, I just enjoy the company of a female more so than a guy, and that situation just yields more sexual opportunities. That said, I really don't enjoy one type of sex over another. It's just that when I'm in the mood to have the type of sex that I want, I do enjoy that type the most, at that particular time..."

I agree with what you write Slim. I would add to your comment that you have not finished your life and you may change just as all bisexual attraction may change. You may later find yourself with men more than women for a variety of reasons. You may find yourself soley with women. The point is that we do change. Some remain 50/50 attraction (more so sexuallly than emotionally but it could be both). It is possible to love two people of different genders and to love them equally and at the same time. I've not experienced it but I believe that it may be possible for some bisexuals.

[SlimDandy]

Well, Tenni, those of us that keep a thought in our head longer than a flea are perfectly capable of reading the entire history of remarks by Gearbox, who I addressed, as calling partners who want to be monogamous selfish and insecure. So please C your way out of the A and B conversation. Thanks.


"Well, Tenni, those of us that keep a thought in our head longer than a flea are perfectly capable of reading the entire history of remarks by Gearbox, who I addressed, as calling partners who want to be monogamous selfish and insecure. So please C your way out of the A and B conversation. Thanks."

" those of us that keep a thought in our head longer than a flea"= personal attack rule 2 violation Madam

Now moving beyond your rude snarky lack of civility which post on this thread does Gear make this comment?

If the comment was on another thread, let it stay there and discuss it there...or start your own thread. The issue of partners who are insecure is not part of this thread. To introduce it is to post like a troll especially as a non bisexual who hasn't comment on the thread topic about whether bisexual find monogamy more challenging.

You seem uncomfortable and threatened with this thread topic.




Hey!

Lookey here guys,

If you both can't have the common decency to get along in a civil fashion, I'm gonna reach through your monitors and pull something off! Get it! Now knock it off!

Now I want you to both to take a deep breath and reconsider the prospect of bringing a new you back to this forum with true love in your hearts and the kinda warmth and kind behavoir, that both your moms would be proud that they taught you, while you were in civil social situations.

Now kiss and make up! LOL

[darkeyes]

Hey!

Lookey here guys,

If you both can't have the common decency to get along in a civil fashion, I'm gonna reach through your monitors and pull something off! Get it! Now knock it off!

Now I want you to both to take a deep breath and reconsider the prospect of bringing a new you back to this forum with true love in your hearts and the kinda warmth and kind behavoir, that both your moms would be proud that they taught you, while you were in civil social situations.

Now kiss and make up! LOL
Yea...rite...sure they will.. *laffs*

[Long Duck Dong]

LDD,

I have to admit that I would find myself much more threatened if my husband were to have a deeply emotional relationship rather than a purely sexual one. I accept the need to connect on an emotional level, but I would prefer a certain level of intimacy remain mine and his alone. I haven't had to face this situation nor do I anticipate having to do so....but you never know. I feel certain that we would work through it as we have everything else.

nods, DD thinks pretty much the same way......

I have always been a more emotional / mental person than a sexual person..... people matter to me and I tend to care too much about my partners, which is part of why I have had some hair raising relationships in the past ......

there are times I wish that it was more of a sexual aspect than a emotional mental attraction as its easier to make rules around having other partners than it is to have rules around who I develop feelings for.....and as always, my partner comes first, I value the thoughts, feelings and emotions of my partners highly, even when they are partners I am better off without..... and so that becomes a noose around my own neck cos if I was to allow feelings for other people to develop, then DD would find that while she was not sharing the bed, she was sharing a heart and that would create issues, and not just for DD....

what makes it worse for me, is when DD returns, I will be looking at taking some meds that will affect my sex drive... and that opens up another can of worms for us....and means that we have to face the issue of possibly dealing with a hyper sex drive, no interest in multiple sex partners, juggling my emotional and mental attractions to people and trying to find a balance that doesn't hurt the relationship or rip me apart mentally and emotionally.......

ironically it doesn't influence my views on monogamy and non monogamy, as they are aspects of people that are not always *controlled * by sexuality or attraction.... being bisexual doesn't mean that a person is automatically non monogamous natured or that being heterosexual means that a person is automatically monogamous natured.... the only way it does influence my views is in the fact that a partners personal feelings and thoughts matter in a relationship / marriage cos without the partner, there is no relationship / marriage.....

[bityme]

I think it is a given that a bisexual will experience difficulty in maintaining a monogamous relationship regardless of where they fall on the Kinsey Scale. It's just a matter of degree. Moreover, the most difficulty would probably be encountered by a 1 in a homosexual relationship or a 5 in a heterosexual relationship.

No matter how you view it, monogamy for a bisexual requires the control or suppression of their desires for the gender not in their relationship. Certainly, there are many who are successful. Based on posts to this forum, I have the impression that the individuals who are the most successful are those who have fully disclosed their bisexuality to their partners and are honest when their urges occur. Having open communication, they are able to let their partners know and it appears that helpful partners will help them concentrate their attentions on the existing relationship. That serves to lessen the severity of the urges, facilitating maintenance of the chosen monogamy. Those cannot or have chosen not to disclose their bisexuality lack this advantage.

Pappy