Fox Pundit Says Women In The Military Should ‘Expect’ To Be Raped

[æonpax]

The Pentagon announced new rules last week easing the ban on women serving in combat. While conservatives like Rick Santorum are a little uneasy with the news, the announcement only formalizes military practices that were already taking place.

But Fox News contributor Liz Trotta’s commentary on the matter took the issue to a whole other level. She’s not really concerned about the “controversy” surrounding the Pentagon’s announcement. For Trotta, the issue is having “women once more, the feminist, going, wanting to be warriors and victims at the same time.” She cited a recent Pentagon report that violent sex crimes in the military have increased over the last 6 years and said women should “expect” it, decrying more levels of bureaucracy to support women who have been “raped too much“ http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/02/13/424239/fox-women-miliary-expect-raped/?mobile=nc



While I’ve come to expect the total bastardization of news from Faux, their sycophantic mouthpiece, Liz Trotta, went way over the top on this. There is no sentient, rational logic to justify rape, ever, including personal beliefs. Not only does Trotta’s idiotic comment totally demean women, it insults the millions of males serving in the US military who respect their fellow female comrades and maintain control over their base sexual instincts.

[12voltman59]

I read about her in the last few days on a few web sites--the lady tries to slough it off by saying she was "only joking" That doesn't matter, apparently the rape of female service members by their male confederates is a big problem in the service and that is not anything to "just joke about."

I already forgot the young woman's name, she was from my local area and the case played out a few years back now, but she was in the Marines and had been raped by her fellow marine corps boyfriend and after she reported him--they had not done much to him but once it looked like he would get in trouble--he murdered her, burned her body and buried the remains in a barrel in his back yard, he then took off and headed to Mexico where he finally did get caught, arrested and brought back for trial back in North Carolina---it was from that case that kind of blew up that rape and other assaults on women in ALL of our US military branches including my former service, the US Coast Guard was basically at an epidemic level.

It does get me at how many women there are who seem fine with things like service women being raped by their fellow soliders, marines, airmen, Coasties, Guard and Reserve and even don't seem to have a problem with male politicos wanting to do away with forms of contraception other than maybe rubbers and "the rhythm method"---but then again--it seems to be part and parcel of a power group that wishes to "oppress" another to use members of that group to do some of the dirty work---sorta like how the Nazis relied upon those Jews who helped send their own people to the gas chambers and furnaces of the German extermination camps.

Like I keep saying---the American right really seems that they have become totally unhinged---it almost seems that there is no longer any bounds to the crazy things they not only believe in, but say, do and try to impose on the rest of us.

Back years ago when I first moved to Savannah, Ga--there was this one religious group or maybe a church that regularly ran an ad in the Savannah paper that had a headline that read: "Why Do the Heathens Rage?" I never paid much attention to it---but thinking about that ad---I don't know about anyone else--but I don't think I have actually seen an epidemic of Raging Heathens ---actually I kinda think I might want to see some---but man---it sure as hell seems that these rightwing nut jobs are sure doing some major "Raging" these days!!!

[keefer10.7]

I read the story and seen the video on what she said and in no way did she suggest that. It just fits what you want to hear.

[void()]

Back years ago when I first moved to Savannah, Ga--there was this one religious group or maybe a church that regularly ran an ad in the Savannah paper that had a headline that read: "Why Do the Heathens Rage?" I never paid much attention to it---but thinking about that ad---I don't know about anyone else--but I don't think I have actually seen an epidemic of Raging Heathens ---actually I kinda think I might want to see some---but man---it sure as hell seems that these rightwing nut jobs are sure doing some major "Raging" these days!!!

Heathens have better sense and faith in leading by example. Sort of like one of the rules of the inter-webs, "no need to call a jerk a jerk, people can see it plain enough themselves."

Aeon: Try not to hold it against them. A veneer of disregard for humanity and dignity is merely overcompensation for lacking intellect and large members. Fear to defend everything destroys their self worth and misery as they say loves company. I am agreeing more and more with Ninja of Die Antwoord, it's 2012, we're living in the future right f----ing now. The old system is f----ed so f---k the system! We'll make or own rules.

[keefer10.7]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/20/fox-news-liz-trotta-rape-military_n_1288769.html

Here's the link with the actual comments, which I find odd that the OP didn't put up. For all you feminists who urge women to enjoin their male counterparts in combat, I find you no different than the Jihadist who straps a bomb vest on some dupe but he himself will not wear the same. I doubt however, that any of you people who are all for this, will even note what Miss Trotta is even talking about as the core of this issue.

OOPS! My bad, she did give a link.

[Brian]

For all you feminists who urge women to enjoin their male counterparts in combat, I find you no different than the Jihadist who straps a bomb vest on some dupe You've been watching way too much Fox News. You are one mindless cliche after another. You completely ignore the issue and instead choose to launch personal attacks on those who raise it. It can only be assumed it is because you have nothing intelligent to say on the issue. Why would you say anything at all in that situation?

- Drew :paw:

[keefer10.7]

You've been watching way too much Fox News. You are one mindless cliche after another. You completely ignore the issue and instead choose to launch personal attacks on those who raise it. It can only be assumed it is because you have nothing intelligent to say on the issue. Why would you say anything at all in that situation?

- Drew :paw:

I would say the same for you, as all you do is put up pablum for like minded comsumption. I havent' raised on personal attack on anyone, but I do find it interesting that if one disagrees with the standards here, they are the ones who are personally attacked. Go slither back in your hole.

[Brian]

I havent' raised on personal attack on anyone

What was this then?


For all you feminists who urge women to enjoin their male counterparts in combat, I find you no different than the Jihadist who straps a bomb vest on some dupe but he himself will not wear the same.

You aren't functioning on the plane of reality. Facts mean nothing to you. You can post one thing and then deny you said it just 5 minutes later.

And my comment was not an ad hominem attack on you, it was an attack on your really poor thoughts and behaviour.

- Drew :paw:

[darkeyes]

I would say the same for you, as all you do is put up pablum for like minded comsumption. I havent' raised on personal attack on anyone, but I do find it interesting that if one disagrees with the standards here, they are the ones who are personally attacked. Go slither back in your hole.

U certainly have a peculiar view of the world...I doubt Drew would be able the find room in that hole even if he wanted to since u've already moved in and taken up residence...

[JP1986UM]

I would read this thread in its entirety if the OP would kindly put up all the dumb fucking things said by that hag on MSNBC as a shill for the far left DNC Work Group. Until then, people are going to say stupid things. All the time. Everyday.

I don't let it affect my life.

I do however get my cock in a vice when someone wants to impose their will on me or demand I think exactly as they do simply do to some "feeling" or desire. Such is the way of the far left.

[Brian]

I do however get my cock in a vice when someone wants to impose their will on me What is discriminating against someone on the basis of their gender but someone imposing their will on others.

- Drew :paw:

[void()]

For all you feminists who urge women to enjoin their male counterparts in combat, I find you no different than the Jihadist who straps a bomb vest on some dupe but he himself will not wear the same.

While I am not a feminist, see no problem with women serving. See no problem in them expecting to be treated humanely and with respect and dignity either. Men are raped in service as well. This does not condone rape of women or men. I have served and if I had my way twenty years ago it would have been for twenty. Saw no problem then if women chose to serve. Sorry, yeah I'll strap on the vest too. Your argument fails, is demeaning, worthless, uncalled for.

[æonpax]

{snip/unsnip}
Aeon: Try not to hold it against them. A veneer of disregard for humanity and dignity is merely overcompensation for lacking intellect and large members. Fear to defend everything destroys their self worth and misery as they say loves company. I am agreeing more and more with Ninja of Die Antwoord, it's 2012, we're living in the future right f----ing now. The old system is f----ed so f---k the system! We'll make or own rules.

I look at Faux in multiple ways;


1) Economically – Rupert Murdoch has a “tabloid” method of presenting news. It’s a damn good formula and it has made him very, very rich. He found a niche, conservative in this case, and has exploited it. It has also made many Faux personalities rich. From a purely business perspective, it’s a win for News Corp.

However, demographics more than suggest that their viewership is slowly shrinking, the Medium age being 65. Making it worse, they are about dead last with the under 30 market. Some predict a shift in Faux, slowing away from their bombastic, almost zealot conservatism, to a more moderate approach to lure in the youth market. It makes good business sense.

2) Journalistically – The phrase “tabloid journalism” is an oxymoron, when it comes to Faux. Even when I was in college for that degree, it was considered a joke…a bad example. From an “academic” perspective, it is like a cancer. It reduces news to entertainment in order to pander to an ideological bias or “confirmation bias.” This may be snotty of me to say I prefer news agencies or sources that at least make an attempt at “balance”, not just use it in a slogan.

3) Ideology – My view is any ideology, political, academic or religious, can be perverted and used according to the goals of the person or organization. In the case of Faux, conservatism is no more than a means to an end…Profitability.



Summary – News Corp/Faux is a social disease, driving wedges between people and flaming the fires of social discord. Like with Limbaugh, they exaggerate what divides us without even suggesting any means to bridge that gap. These are parasites, scum…rich and powerful scum but scum, nonetheless.

Liz Trotta is no more than a cog in a very large machine. Personally, I could care less what she said. She said what she was paid to say. She’s expendable as are all cogs and parts of the machine. I wish no ill will on her or on the multitude of other parts. Any animosity I may harbor is saved for those who control the machine. They are the real evil.

[Brian]

Very well said æonpax. An insightful and well thought-out summary of the damage done by those propagandists.

- Drew :paw:

[tenni]

The issue of women being raped in the military is a problem and not only in one country. Canada has its own problems with this as well as sexual harassment in the military. There is now a class action law suit by former women soldiers against the Canadian military and specific leaders as I recall.

Similarly, Drew, SUN television has started its own Fox news style of media coverage. I don't think that SUN is getting as strong a foot hold in Ontario but what about Alberta Drew? Do you see SUN tv followers in Alberta? Do you even get that TV channel?

[darkeyes]

Attagirl Æon...:bigrin:

[darkeyes]

For all you feminists who urge women to enjoin their male counterparts in combat, I find you no different than the Jihadist who straps a bomb vest on some dupe but he himself will not wear the same.


Actually in a sense, and this will probably be a bit of a shock to Keefer, he isnt far off the mark from my own point of view... I have said it before, but I have always considered national militaries as terror organisations.. I have never shared the oft stated belief that militaries are for national defence.. they serve another quite different and much more sinister purpose as I think history shows...as an aboslute pacifist and a believer in non violence for any reason I can do no other and will never encourage any woman (or man for that matter) to enlist as a military person.. indeed would do all I can to prevent them..

...but I do understand that I am in a bit of a minority even among feminists.. and as long as we have a military machine it is right that gender equality exists within that machine.. I dont like it, the machine that is, and live to have it dismantled across the globe as I do to end the horrific terror groups that proliferate in support of cause.. it is a conflict within me which I have terrible difficulty with, but must accept that others do not think as I do and have their own beliefs and principles.. and so long as militaries are in existence, it is a conflict I will never be able to resolve...

.. but as to any comment that may have been made about expecting to be raped, it is but a stupid comment by a paid hack.. even a lady of the night should not go to work and expect to be raped... and any who think otherwise have little or no respect for the rights of human beings and even less for the rights of one half of humanity..

[RavenEye]

I always found it terribly sickening that even today there's still no full equality. For instance, women still get paid less than men for the same job; or that women don't have to join the selective service to get student aid. Hell they're still not allowed to go in front lines! I mean if some girl was wailing on me and I decided to defend myself, guess who would be going to jail? Me. But more relative to this topic - I can't believe that this is even happening! I wonder if men get raped a lot too. Hmmmm...

[Gearbox]

While I’ve come to expect the total bastardization of news from Faux, their sycophantic mouthpiece, Liz Trotta, went way over the top on this. There is no sentient, rational logic to justify rape, ever, including personal beliefs. Not only does Trotta’s idiotic comment totally demean women, it insults the millions of males serving in the US military who respect their fellow female comrades and maintain control over their base sexual instincts.
I don't think she was justifying rape. Obviously there is a big problem with rape in the military, and saying that women should expect to get raped there isn't justifying it, but pointing it out. She wouldn't have said it if there were just one or two cases of rape.

What she did (IMO) was say in short: It's much easier to toss the women out than make it safe for them.
That doesn't say much for the military, but that's sadly how it seems to be. Women shouldn't have to withdraw from a male threat. The threat should be removed. But that is given the image of a less effective military.
If an effective military is the goal then women have to go (as she sees it).

That gives the impression that potential (and actual) rapist male soldiers are more valuable than women soldiers. I think that's what she's saying. But that's not justifying rape! That's being military tactical.
It's sinister! But in a different way IMO.

[Realist]

I'd have to see some facts and figures on those rapes. I was in the military for 7 years (3 years Army, 4 years Air Force) and worked for the Army for another 23. I was at the same Army post during my civilian service and had friends in the MPs. I also knew two military judges. In all that time, I can remember one rape (male on male) in Germany, in 1959. In the states, I only knew of one rape of a female service member. I know there are many military posts/bases, all over the world. I can't account for any of the others, but where I was, rape was rarely known. There may have been unreported rapes, of course, I wouldn't know about them. I retired in '93, so I have no knowledge of what happened after that. ...the report mentioned something about the last few years. However, if it's true, this sickens me. I've heard so many lies and misrepresentations by news personnel, I usually take the things they say with a grain of salt!

[DuckiesDarling]

I'd have to see some facts and figures on those rapes. I was in the military for 7 years (3 years Army, 4 years Air Force) and worked for the Army for another 23. I was at the same Army post during my civilian service and had friends in the MPs. I also knew two military judges. In all that time, I can remember one rape (male on male) in Germany, in 1959. In the states, I only knew of one rape of a female service member. I know there are many military posts/bases, all over the world. I can't account for any of the others, but where I was, rape was rarely known. There may have been unreported rapes, of course, I wouldn't know about them. I retired in '93, so I have no knowledge of what happened after that. ...the report mentioned something about the last few years. However, if it's true, this sickens me. I've heard so many lies and misrepresentations by news personnel, I usually take the things they say with a grain of salt!

And, unfortunately, it is a sad fact that when soldiers of any gender fall into enemy hands that rape is one of the ways they try to break them. Even in cultures that have a dim view of homosexuality, the rape of male soldiers by the enemy is not looked upon as a sex act, it's looked upon as a weapon to be used.

[void()]

Fairly well agree with you, Aeon, and thought I had made that clear. I dislike 'yellow dog' journalism and media for the reasons you present. If I bother with news it is usually NPR or PBS, might slip in some Democracy Now once in a while or something from Link TV. To me these do seem to try being balanced. Some may disagree and that is fine, go check out something else.

Going to air a gripe about most media here too. Six reporters telling me what a political figures says when I just heard what they said? Sorry, I know that sometimes perception is difficult but are we even for real any more? What the speaker couldn't articulate well enough on their own? Go figure people calling me crazy.

[swmnkdinthervr]

If an effective military is the goal then women have to go (as she sees it).


She should seriously check out the women in the Israeli military...and I defy any man to try and rape one!!!

[elian]

Fox Pundit Says Women In The Military Should ‘Expect’ To Be Raped

That doesn't surprise me, they say a lot of stupid things..gotta do something to get those ratings!

I guess I should expect that I could get run over by a bus, or that someone will cut me off in traffic too but that doesn't make it right.

[æonpax]

I don't think she was justifying rape. Obviously there is a big problem with rape in the military, and saying that women should expect to get raped there isn't justifying it, but pointing it out. She wouldn't have said it if there were just one or two cases of rape.

What she did (IMO) was say in short: It's much easier to toss the women out than make it safe for them.
That doesn't say much for the military, but that's sadly how it seems to be. Women shouldn't have to withdraw from a male threat. The threat should be removed. But that is given the image of a less effective military. If an effective military is the goal then women have to go (as she sees it).

That gives the impression that potential (and actual) rapist male soldiers are more valuable than women soldiers. I think that's what she's saying. But that's not justifying rape! That's being military tactical. It's sinister! But in a different way IMO.


Just to prefix something, I chose the “thinkprogress” article out of close to a thousand of reports and news blogs to make my comment on. It contains the full video of the Trotta broadcast on Fox but also a full written transcript of what she said plus also has related links.

If Trotta was misunderstood then she did a very poor job of conveying her message. While I agree, she did NOT directly say “women should expect to be raped”, her clumsy juvenile use of the English language gave tens of millions of people, the impression she did. But one has to remember, she didn’t write that garbage…Faux news did and if she did, Faux had to approved it.

Her real target was supposed to be “radical feminists” supposedly pushing for women to be in front line combat and the inane, far-right talking point that women in the military is a social experiment. ( source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/20/fox-news-liz-trotta-rape-military_n_1288769.html )

Trotta presented no proof or evidence of these so-called feminists she claims exists, whom are trying to influence US military policy. That would be inconsistent with the Faux policy of creating discord based on their own prejudicial beliefs. Trotta’s use of the female rape analogy was false, misleading and trivialized a growing problem for the military, especially in Afghanistan.

[goldenfinger]

The issue of women being raped in the military is a problem and not only in one country. Canada has its own problems with this as well as sexual harassment in the military. There is now a class action law suit by former women soldiers against the Canadian military and specific leaders as I recall.

Similarly, Drew, SUN television has started its own Fox news style of media coverage. I don't think that SUN is getting as strong a foot hold in Ontario but what about Alberta Drew? Do you see SUN tv followers in Alberta? Do you even get that TV channel?


You can add Australia to that list too, sadly.

[darkeyes]

Just to prefix something, I chose the “thinkprogress” article out of close to a thousand of reports and news blogs to make my comment on. It contains the full video of the Trotta broadcast on Fox but also a full written transcript of what she said plus also has related links.

If Trotta was misunderstood then she did a very poor job of conveying her message. While I agree, she did NOT directly say “women should expect to be raped”, her clumsy juvenile use of the English language gave tens of millions of people, the impression she did. But one has to remember, she didn’t write that garbage…Faux news did and if she did, Faux had to approved it.

Her real target was supposed to be “radical feminists” supposedly pushing for women to be in front line combat and the inane, far-right talking point that women in the military is a social experiment. ( source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/20/fox-news-liz-trotta-rape-military_n_1288769.html )

Trotta presented no proof or evidence of these so-called feminists she claims exists, whom are trying to influence US military policy. That would be inconsistent with the Faux policy of creating discord based on their own prejudicial beliefs. Trotta’s use of the female rape analogy was false, misleading and trivialized a growing problem for the military, especially in Afghanistan.

Seems to me a variation of what many people think about women going out enjoying themselves and those that say that they should not put themselves in danger by doing so, by mode of dress or behaviour.. and feminists taking umbrage at those that do by saying that they should be allowed so to do.. without fear...

Course we could all stay home and be bored to death... and raped in our own home..

[Brian]

Similarly, Drew, SUN television has started its own Fox news style of media coverage. I don't think that SUN is getting as strong a foot hold in Ontario but what about Alberta Drew? Do you see SUN tv followers in Alberta? Do you even get that TV channel? No Sun TV here in Alberta Tenni. Actually I had never heard of it before now. Well, hopefully it is as æonpax (http://www.bisexual.com/forum/member.php?134479-æonpax) said, and that kind of harmful distortion of the public discourse is falling out of style. My sense of "the street" is that facts and thoughtful reasoning *are* starting to become popular again.

- Drew :paw:

[Gearbox]

@Aeonpax- Bloody PC went off and took my long winded reply (lol), but in short: I don't watch the news or read newspapers so am probably naive about it.
BUT Although feminism was used as an 'evil enemy', nothing&nobody came out 'good' with that/those reports.

[wanderingrichard]

ok i gotta weigh in.

unknown to many of you, 30 years ago we had an undeclared war in central america. you can thank mssrs reagan, bush the elder, and lt. col. oliver north among others.

I had women on the line with me fighting right alongside me, risking their lives just like everyone else. and i am not talking just gringas from the US but also from 4 central american countries. in those circumstance you grow closer than your own family will ever be, and gender becomes moot. you can also become extremely sexually aroused during times like that. happens all the time. what takes place afterwards in close sweaty quarters between two willing people looking for privacy is one thing, and a good way to bleed off the after fight adrenaline. Rape was not something that occurred or was condoned.

fast forward to the NATO police action in the former Yugoslavia, where rape was a weekly thing among the collective forces. not just rape among soldiers, but also rape of the locals, and not always just women. Usually those deeds are found out quickly, and the perpetrators where mostly brought to justice. i say mostly because one or two took the cowards way out and killed themselves. most likely one or two also committed the deed just prior to their rotation home and werent found out until long afterwards if at all. I hope the burden of guilt they carry gives them nightmares on a daily basis and thier souls never find rest.

having access to sevral friends still on active duty here is what these professinals tell me, and it makes sense looking back:

shorter sharper intensity conflicts such as what we experienced in Grenada, Panama chasing after Noriega, the one i mentioned before, all these follow the norm of low to non existant incidence of rape of female soldiers by thier fellow soldiers.

as the duration of the conflict increases, such as what has happened recently, the incidence goes up in direct ratio to the increasing number of troops. so, say within a brigade of 5000 troops, there might be only one incident every 15 years or so. far lower than the civilillian populations usually right outside the gates of their posts.

pile that brigade into theatre sized units of 30,000 upwards to as many of 260,000, confine them to small spaces under draconian rules regarding gender and sexual conduct that hark back to days of the continental army, expect or demand them to be almost totally sexless, inculcate them with a creed that demands robotic obiedience to orders, chest thumping mentalities and extreme high stress and that ratio more than octuples within 4 weeks.

here and now;
i deal with soldiers every day. many of them have as many as 5 rotations into the cauldrons of Iraq and Afghanistan. They dont and wont speak of this in public, but after you have had them to your homes for dinner and a relaxing night or two several times, and they know they can trust you to not repeat things, they open up. Rape has been discussed a few times, and not in good terminology suitable for publication. usually it comes after some bobble headed blathering idiot such as the Faux news employee who obviously needs to go get her facts straight. and trust me they won't have kind words for that person, in public it's ususally a derisive snort followed by some thing like, Yeh, that fuck, they need to stay in their lane.

What can i say to top that?

[wanderingrichard]

Forgot to add.

IF Trotta ever met one of the battle hardened ladies in uniform that i've had the pleasure to meet, she better get on the good side of that woman fast. Or get on her knees and kiss thats womans feet. She doesn't deserve anything better.

[bigbadmax]

Firstly, who cares whether women serve on the frontline....they have been in the UK for years.
Secondly I could give many pros and cons about it but again who cares? its done so thats that.
Thridly,There is a no touch rule in the UK, we can have Alcohol but no women...except where denied locally(the Ghan being one), The only three "rapes" I came into contact with was
a) my friend was accused and put up for courts martial, this was dropped as she cried rape as she didnt want her boyfriend at the time to find out she was playing around...nearly ruined a bloody good persons life.
b) I had phonecall from a rating's friend stating that the rating had been raped on a run ashore(night out)..police were called etc and dealt with.
c) A rating was on a run ashore in Brazil, was in wrong area, kidnapped and raped by 10 men....he subsequently died of HIV, worst part was he had been virgin and was saving himself for his fiancee.

The upshot being that "rape" is very rare and usually happens off duty. The reporter obviously chose her wording to get noticed, well bully for her, she achieved her aim.