The evolution of LGBT in NZ

[Long Duck Dong]

As I sit at my chair behind my computer, in New Zealand.... I am watching as society and in particular the LGBT community, quietly carry on in life.....

we have succeeded in gaining the rights to marriage and ruling out discrimination against the LGBT..... and as a result, much of the LGBT scene has died away from a visible and accessible network, to a few online sites and support groups, a few cruise bars and saunas and parades.

The interesting aspect is that its a opposite to what many of the LGBT thought would happen.....

the general idea was that the LGBT scene would grow as we gained more and more rights, there would be more gathering places, LGBT bars opening up, more gatherings......

in the last 2 years the two major issues surrounding the LGBT have come from the Gay scene with two popular family area beaches being used more and more by some gay people for cruising and hooking up... much to the horror of visitors and locals alike that are disgusted by naked males engaging in public displays of sex ( illegal in NZ ) in areas that young children go to play and we have overseas visitors and locals often finding used condoms laying on the ground and a total disregard for the general public.

even the main stream gay community has spoken out about the attitude of these groups of gay people, as it is starting to fuel a anti LGBT sentiment again that could undo much of the work that was done in NZ

at the recent Big Gay Out in auckland, it was noticed that there was a absence of the militant LGBT activists that would use the events to push their own agenda and piss off the general public,... this year there were no issues reported and in fact it was using by the NZ politicians for their own political grandstanding as its a election year...

have things improved for the better or the worse, is personal perception... some lament the loss of a more active LGBT community, others applaud the relation quietness of the more vocal LGBT people that made a name for themselves with their controversial statements and stances....

even in the bigger cities, it has been noticed that more and more LGBT have gone * underground * perfering to stick with who they know and ostracising the * bad * element amongst them, that act in a manner that is not a trait of the LGBT....including criminal sexual behievour.....

A few of the LGBT couples that I know that have got married, have since spilt up... with the realisation that their fight for the right to marriage was honourable, but actually getting married was not the right move..... they did it to prove a point, one that was not proven in the end......

so for the other countries that battle on for rights and understanding..... bear in mind that it may not become the LGBT utopia that we may believe it will be... and that many LGBT flock together, united by the * victim * mentality.... and that once they gain the rights, they have a few less things in common......

just a lil food for thought from a bisexual in NZ

[goldenfinger]

Same sex union was legalized in Denmark way back in 1989, but very few have taken up on it. When the battle is won and over, the soldiers go home, nothing more to fight about.:eek:

[tenni]

Thanks for the interesting observation about your country.

Canada has had same sex marriage with equal legal rights all across the country since 2005(I recall?) In various provinces same sex marriage came earlier. I'm not sufficiently in touch with the GLBT groups to know for sure but I can tell from what has been happening recently in Toronto's Church street that homophobia has not disappeared with these same sex marriage rights. There have been beatings in the gay village and "slushings" (from Glee the TV show copy cat). There was a community meeting called last week and many reported harassment and attacks. In fact, the police labelled one attack against a gay man as a "hate crime". This label is a legal term and a bit complicated as it is covered under several laws. I don't recall anyone being charged yet though.

Perhaps like discrimination against Blacks and other ethnic racial minorities there is still a need for some form of awareness and standing up against injustice. Sadly, there is a right winged conservatism sweeping this area and the ugliness of bigotry has not gone away but it seems that young high school students may be the culprit for the recent attacks. (a high school right in the middle of the gay village)

Wonderful for NZ if complacency has set in and there is no concern to stay united and educating bigots.

[Long Duck Dong]

we do not fight with the bigots in NZ, we let them out themselves and go public and find they have little support.....

NZ is too pro rights for the bigots to have the control they do in the larger countries.....

another aspect is that you can not educate bigots, it would be like trying to teach the KKK that black people are human and have rights as well.... in the same way that we can not educate people with the hetero phobia, bi phobia, homo phobia agendas...... instead of fighting with them, we just let them rant and rave until they realise they are pissing in the wind as most people are not listening to them......

there is also the understanding that the biggest bigots are the ones that are often crying out about bigotry.... something that has been noticed many times around the world..... a bit like the people that are constantly crying out about racism, yet push their own agenda as the right one.....

[tenni]

Please clarify and contextualize the following

1/ Jan. 11, 2011

http://www.sdgln.com/news/2011/01/11/new-zealand-gay-couple-shut-bakery-after-taunts-and-attacks

2/ Jan. 26, 2011

http://kiwi247.com/news/new-zealand-has-work-to-do-on-gay-rights

[Long Duck Dong]

ok the first link....

it was a trial by media... oh the poor gay couple harassed by thugs......

the truth was that the family involved were known to the gay couple for a number of years, one of the gay guys had down time, one of the family members worked at the bakery for the gay guys and was not paid the money she was owed by them....

a dispute arose and the police were involved,... the finding that that the family could have used the legal channels...... and that indeed there was not gay bashing elements.... the media turned it into a heteros v's gays issue for the extra attention, in stead od a civil dispute over unpaid wages.....

CCTV footage cleared the family of committing most of the actions claimed by the gay couple

strangely enuf the economy in christchurch is in a bad way from the massive earthquake last year...... and the reason the bakery shut, is it was not viable ( turning a profit ) .... something many businesses are reporting in christchurch.... but some how cos its a gay couple, its cos of homophobic people...... so i have to ask... are earthquakes that bring down houses and buildings, homophobic cos they affect gay people....????




in the second link, yes there were anti gay remarks spray painted on the shed..... there is no proof that there was arson involved...... and once again there appears to be a issue that is a civil matter... at this stage, the police have not laid any charges as there is little to go on

yeah NZ has issues.... all 2 of them...... tenni......
I guess that makes nz a bad place, we have had more than 58k cases of assault and attacks on people in the last year..... 2 of them against LGBT......

do you want me to dig up the 8 reported LGBT bashings in the last 7 years...... cos I think its only fair that I would also mention the 500k NONE LGBT assaults and attacks over the same period......

[tenni]

Is this arson against a lesbian flower shop also false?

http://kiwi247.com/news/community-supports-lesbian-couple-after-hate-crime-arson

News
Community supports lesbian couple after hate crime arson

Posted on 25 January 2011 by NZ Herald
A Northland lesbian couple has been inundated with offers of support and sympathy after their small flower business was torched in an apparent anti-gay attack.Blooming Bulbs in Mangawhai Heads, a seaside town about 100km north...

2/ Was the Chief Human Rights Officer incorrect when she is quoted as saying that there still is work to do on gay rights?

[Long Duck Dong]

Is this arson against a lesbian flower shop also false?

http://kiwi247.com/news/community-supports-lesbian-couple-after-hate-crime-arson

News
Community supports lesbian couple after hate crime arson

Posted on 25 January 2011 by NZ Herald
A Northland lesbian couple has been inundated with offers of support and sympathy after their small flower business was torched in an apparent anti-gay attack.Blooming Bulbs in Mangawhai Heads, a seaside town about 100km north...

2/ Was the Chief Human Rights Officer incorrect when she is quoted as saying that there still is work to do on gay rights?

hey tenni... that was the same flower shop you mentioned in your second example in post 5... so when you have finished trying to shit stir, try researching a lil better..


2/ the chief human rights officer is a token role for a government official..... they have no power and are known in NZ, for their token gestures when things go bad

they are also the same person that said that bullying is wrong, child abuse is wrong, racism is wrong, sexism is wrong etc etc... we should do something about it......


so tenni.... google things a lil better please before you post again, cos you are overlapping the same stories and looking bloody childish....

[tenni]

rather confusing?

The first shop is written up as being a bakery shop with broken windows owned by two gay men who closed the shop and the arson was of a flower shop was owned by two lesbians????

That is what the newspaper wrote up. just say'n

[Long Duck Dong]

yeah tenni,,, and you could only find a san diego site reporting of a issue in NZ.....

Unpaid-wages-blamed-for-dispute (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4544189/Unpaid-wages-blamed-for-dispute)

here is the other side to the bakery story.....

if you want, I can link to the other page where the gay guys admit to moving shop cos of the CHCH earthquake that damaged their original shop......
the same earthquake that has caused a number of shops to close in CHCH...

or you can just read it... its at the bottom of the link you posted.... click on the read full story link

as for the two lesbians.... you will only find the stories about the shed, as there are serious concerns on a number of aspects, including a live tv interview by the ladies that is leading investigators to believe that it may well be a staged event and insurance fraud scam.....

I keep telling people to research things better

maybe this will help you understand tenni

Queer teen suicide actually natural death (http://www.queerty.com/not-every-gay-teen-who-dies-is-a-bullycide-victim-so-why-do-we-rush-to-claim-them-20110124/)

[tenni]

Sir
You denied that they were two separate shops? Now a new interpretation and twisting? I am wondering if you have article references that state that these gays and lesbians reports of arson etc. was false?

Yes, it seems that the bakery was reprinted in San Diego while the flower shop was in something called Kiwi and mentions the words New Zealand in quite a few other articles.

The point is that your NZ is not the utopian place for GLBT people with nothing to unite GLBT people behind because there are no GLBT issues to unite behind as you first stated. If it is not gays and lesbians having their shops vandalized, windows broken, arson, and all of that reporting is deception, then NZ may have problems with GLBT being deceptive and manipulative? :eek:
Something smells on this thread if not sheep dip something else.:bigrin:

I recognize from your posting behaviour that you will post one more time. So be it. Last word to "himself".

[Long Duck Dong]

Sir
You denied that they were two separate shops? Now a new interpretation and twisting? I am wondering if you have article references that state that these gays and lesbians reports of arson etc. was false?

Yes, it seems that the bakery was reprinted in San Diego while the flower shop was in something called Kiwi and mentions the words New Zealand in quite a few other articles.

The point is that your NZ is not the utopian place for GLBT people with nothing to unite GLBT people behind because there are no GLBT issues to unite behind as you first stated. If it is not gays and lesbians having their shops vandalized, windows broken, arson, and all of that reporting is deception, then NZ may have problems with GLBT being deceptive and manipulative? :eek:
Something smells on this thread if not sheep dip something else.:bigrin:

I recognize from your posting behaviour that you will post one more time. So be it. Last word to "himself".

I denied they are seperate shops ???? I refered to both shops in post 6 as seperate issues.... as the shed burning was in the north island, the bakery was in the south island..... both issues were reported in nz newpapers, you failed with your google search

right, try NZ newspaper hub (http://www.stuff.co.nz/) now tenni... that is nz's main online newspaper hub...... at the bottom it lists most of newspapers and some links......
so I would suggest when you want to go after me over NZ issues..... use that link and that will help you come up with a semi valid debate......... thats debate, not masturbate... just so you do not get confused

the fact remains the media turned it into anti lgbt hate crimes...... the truth that you failed to find, was much different........

at least when i counter peoples article postings, I research the facts, not post the first links I can find...... how about you try doing that....